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Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

154 points by swalsh 3y ago

turtleyacht 3y ago
Retrieved*
- swalsh 3y ago
  I manually rewrote the headline because it copied in all caps :( sorry. Fixed it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
graderjs 3y ago
Jonathan Grey says secrets have been necessary. “Though a tough nut to crack, potential technological advancements may be gleaned from non-human intelligence/UAP retrievals by any sufficiently advanced nation and then used to wage asymmetrical warfare, so, therefore, some secrecy must remain,” he says. “However, it is no longer necessary to continue to deny that these advanced technologies derived from non-human intelligence exist at all or to deny that these technologies have landed, crashed, or fallen into the hands of human beings.” - Jonathan Grey, the intelligence officer specializing in UAP analysis at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center, is speaking publicly for the first time, identified here under the identity he uses inside the agency. Also: https://web.archive.org/web/20230605130331/https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230605130331/https://thedebrie...
- swalsh 3y ago
  Being able to acknowledge they exist has to be more beneficial to our country. Open communication is essential to science. The more scientists with clearences we can get in, and cracking the nut, the better off the US will be.
  - toastgrave 3y ago
    Does it? There was a study like 10 years ago saying more than 50% of adults believe in angels. I don't think they could comprehend this (if true).
    - swalsh 3y ago
      I'm guessing those people are not scientists.
      - graderjs 3y ago
        What if it's two sides of the same thing? May be closer than you think
kunalgupta 3y ago
Insane, but totally believable "a[n eighty year] Cold War for recovered and exploited physical material – a competition with near-peer adversaries over the years to identify UAP crashes/landings and retrieve the material for exploitation/reverse engineering to garner asymmetric national defense advantages."
- elric 3y ago
  How many of these crashes are there? Did these aliens fly halfway across a galaxy just to crash in our neck of the woods? Are they flying around in cheap junk? Or are they just terrible pilots? All those special vehicle morphologies and unique atomic arrangements just to crash land. Odd.
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    We humans have crashed plenty of advanced craft on Mars. Does it mean it is not possible for us to travel long distances?
  - Mulder911 3y ago
    If you define the veracity of such claims as facetious, consider the early experiments of Enrique Inglesias Fermi when he invented microwaves. No one disregards the book GWB was reading to that class on 9/11/21 and no one would because it was on camera. Please take care with your words as many here look up to you guys for explanations to the larger UCF topic. Thanks!
  - winrid 3y ago
    Maybe it's an alien weather ship :P
  - dan_mctree 3y ago
    It's possible that the crafts are not designed for the earth environment and that it is different enough from expected environments that there's some ways for these to crash. For example, they may not be able to handle earth storms, longer term exposure to microbe-containing rain or random bird collisions.
Rzor 3y ago
What irks me about all this is that it remained a "secret" quite well guarded for so long (and he characterizes as a global phenomenon, so gigantic surface area for public scrutiny/whistle-blowing)[1], but then I remember the PRISM program/Snowden revelations and I don't know what to think. Perhaps it's also valid to consider that it might be a top secret US aircraft that he judged to be of alien origin and no one in the military tried to correct it, for obvious reasons. [1] - “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”
- graderjs 3y ago
  But it wasn't secret. The narrative has been out there for ages but covered in disinformation so you can't see it properly. The disinformation caused people to see it as ridiculous, as was intended, so they ignored previous government whistleblowers with the same story.
  - dbmnt 3y ago
    Yup. There was information about the NSA's Echelon program floating around for decades before Snowden. Check out the Public Disclosures section of this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON Despite multiple whistleblowers dating back to 1972, no one took it seriously until the Snowden leaks confirmed it without any doubt. For forty years this information remained below the surface.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
Maybe the aliens will finally come to warn us about turning on AGI. Ha
- qup 3y ago
  I wonder if they come and prevent us turning it on, or if they let us, and nuke it once it destroys us?
lisasays 3y ago
Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures,” he said. Extraordinary claims -- extraordinary evidence. Show us some of these fragments, please. You know, the ones with the special "vehicle morphologies", the "unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures" and stuff. Otherwise, there's nothing to talk about here. And nothing fundamentally different from these claims than in all those glaring headlines we've been glancing past, at the top of few certain supermarket tabloids that don't need to be named -- for half a century now. "Secret Government Base Has Wreckage of Alien Craft ..."
- spfzero 3y ago
  Its hard to imagine so many people could have known about this for so long, yet it remained secret. I expect you could keep something like an assassination secret since everyone who knows about it is probably in some way complicit. Wouldn't be the case here. Also of course the energy required to get to Earth from somewhere else, for an organism that used any kind of "vehicle" we could recognize as such, would be enormous. But, good to stay open-minded.
  - capableweb 3y ago
    Worth remembering that if in 2010 you claimed that the US government was spying on everyone via everything, you'd be called a conspiracy-nut, we now know that it was true, what so many people were claiming before that. I agree that probably there needs to be more evidence than "trust me, I've done this for a long time" in order for us to assert there is extra-terrestrial intelligence. But, I wouldn't believe it's false just based on "it couldn't have been hidden for this long".
    - Loquebantur 3y ago
      This isn't just "some guy claiming whatever". Not only is there an enormous backstory attached that people willfully choose to remain ignorant to, all kinds of people holding active positions in the highest relevant places are corroborating this. Even more importantly perhaps, part of the story is a decades-long disinformation program conducted against the US population and government itself, by rouge elements in the intelligence community.
hulitu 3y ago
Again ? Are the same aliens like in Rosswell ? /s
VincentEvans 3y ago
When these clearly superior beings that have advanced far beyond us come knocking, I am sure the first thing we should ask is - whether they accept Jesus as their lord and savior, as it seems very important to us.
- giardini 3y ago
  How we should handle our first encounters has been asked before in an article titled: "Kill Them And Eat Them" (opinion) by Jules Siegel, illustrated by Doug Taylor in Playboy Magazine August 1977 vol.24, no.8 IIRC the article argues that: - every modern civilization has been a disaster for less-modern ones, - the only group that have survived encounters with modern civilization are the Yanomami Indians of the Amazon who have avoided cultural contamination by killing and eating anyone who intrudes upon their territory. Therefore... - we should adopt the Yanomamis' strategy in dealing with advanced civilizations. Perhaps you are right about Jesus. Perhaps Jesus and the Yanomami would be quite compatible. After all, when I was a teen we played guitars and sang songs at Mass. One relevant verse comes to mind: Eat His body, Drink His blood, And we'll sing A song of love, Allelu-, allelu-, allelu-, alleluia.
keernan 3y ago
Interesting word choice: 'non-human' vs 'extra-terrestrial'
- romseb 3y ago
  This is in parts to remove the baggage that comes with the word, but also to be more precise in what is described here: https://i.redd.it/sm2tecjyuqf91.png https://i.redd.it/sm2tecjyuqf91.png
  - keernan 3y ago
    That's incredibly thorough. I guess I've not given it sufficient thought before.
- _1feg 3y ago
  Very calculated wording. Gives them a form of outs if the population realizes that it's actually just the US government generating fake "alien" stories to control the masses using sophisticated AI/AGI technology, they can then claim "actually we always knew it was advanced AI beings".
- moab9 3y ago
  yeah, probably hollow-earthers.
prirun 3y ago
I can believe there would be a lot of competition between the different armed services and even private corporations in keeping this kind of information to themselves, to allow them to use the information for their own private gain. For example, the Air Force would want it kept to themselves for "their" future technology plans and wouldn't want the Navy to get it for "their" plans. And the same for individuals and corporations who might benefit from the study of such information, objects, etc. So while it may seem nearly impossible to keep this information secret for decades, I believe it's possible, with enough threatening and potential for personal gain. For me, Snowden completely debunked "it's not possible to keep that big of a secret for so long".
- graderjs 3y ago
  This was never a secret tho. Define secret. It's not "unknown", in this case, is it? That's part of the plan. The machinery of secrecy: disinformation. Poison the well with so much crazy balderdash, that you end up hiding in plain sight. This narrative has been out for decades, and previous government insiders have come forward, but it's always carefully constructed with many "outs", so that people can dismiss it. So it's not secret, people have known about this, and you may have been told about this, but you would have dismissed it as crazy. That's part of the plan. That's how you keep a secret, you get the people to keep it for you. By not hiding it, just making it seem ridiculous. Of course the details, real and high quality photos/videos or aliens, and actual physical craft you can go and touch, are still hidden. But through the vanguard of disinformation you can help protect all that by making any approach to the topic seem ridiculous. Then even if anyone leaks from that special access project area, you are aided by the fact that people view the whole topic through the lens of the ridiculousness you have carefully created. A comprehensive counterintelligence strategy. Is how you do it. I guess.
blazespin 3y ago
Look, I'm as skeptical as anyone, but please watch your rebuttal. When has there ever been a senior official with a significant reputation coming out like this? That in itself is 'extraordinary' evidence. Is this proof that life is out there? No, but if you're not updating your priors, you're not rational.
- IAmGraydon 3y ago
  The identity of the "whistleblower" doesn't change the fact that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that this has been claimed to have happened in multiple countries over multiple decades and yet there is not a single picture that doesn't look like it was taken with a potato. There is not a single sample of material. None of the craft has ever fallen into civilian hands. All of the involved governments have been able to keep it a secret. As I'm sure all of you are aware, all of this is statistically improbable to the point that it can likely be safely considered to be untrue. If we're considering probabilities, I think it's far more likely that the US Government is running some kind of psychological operation.
  - Loquebantur 3y ago
    Nothing of what you claim there is true to begin with. People encountering this topic have a weird tendency to take their own lack of knowledge as "proof" for inexistence of anything worthwhile. You cannot claim to be an "expert"(in itself a term only referring to human knowledge) in something without actually having checked with other experts in the field.
    - IAmGraydon 3y ago
      Oh good so there is material evidence of this occurring. Eagerly awaiting your post with links to said evidence.
      - Loquebantur 3y ago
        Your claim was > There is not a single sample of material. There are multiple. Maybe look here for starters: https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-garry-nolan-analyzing-anomalous-materials-from-ufo-crashes https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-ga...
ComodoHacker 3y ago
Companion article on how they have fact-checked all this: https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/ https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founde...
- lb4r 3y ago
  So no fact-checking was done about their actual claims, only about who the people behind those claims actually are?
uhtred 3y ago
Please release the pictures and distract everyone so I don't have to figure out this disgusting mishmash of visual basic and sql anymore.
speakfreely 3y ago
While the content sounds good, the context is off. Here's the top domains of the first page of Google results when you Google this officer's name: debrief.org, nysun.com, dailystar.co.uk, dailymail.co.uk, the-sun.com, brobible.com, ar15.com, dailywire.com, m4carbine.net These are the same sites I would expect to see blurry pictures of Big Foot. Unless we're assuming that the Department of Defense is capable of suppressing every major news outlet?
- david-gpu 3y ago
  The authors of the article are Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal, the people who broke off the news about the secret US program to study UFOs on the New York Times back in 2017 and 2018. The other journalist that has interviewed the whistleblower is Ross Coulthart, the award-winning investigative journalist who published interviews with Nat Kobitz, former US Navy Science and Tech Director, who claimed to have knowledge of a program to reverse-engineer crashed UFOs. The people who are breaking these news can't be dismissed easily.
  - speakfreely 3y ago
    So New York Times, where Ralph worked for 45 years, was not interested in this story? They also mention the Washington Post did not run it, claiming they "needed to publish quickly" without explaining why they couldn't wait for WaPo to authenticate it.
    - graderjs 3y ago
      It's not just not the mainstream media onto it. Even the dedicated UFO gatekeepers haven't touched it yet. I think that indicates that: it's factional, and it's a new faction.
      - graderjs 3y ago
        Paraphrasing this guy: "The story is bigger than Snowden. It's just breaking and mainstream media have had a month lead on it, been approached, but refused. It should have people writing to their representatives to investigate Gursch's allegations. People should be outraged at the criminal activity that has gone on outside of oversight. Media is complicit so far." https://youtu.be/rQjbFZT9_EM?t=1370 https://youtu.be/rQjbFZT9_EM?t=1370
ashesharma 3y ago
I feel bad for the whistleblower … unless he smuggled a piece out of the UFO or takes a guided tour of UFOs with our brightest scientists taking measurements, no one is going to take him seriously . Further may risk pushing the topic into more incredulity
- King-Aaron 3y ago
  It does sound like the guy was the head of the pentagon's UAP taskforce, and also a senior high level advisor to the president. Not taking him seriously might be the wrong approach?
motohagiography 3y ago
Whether it's true or not, there are some predictable consequences to a mainstream "proof of aliens" scenario: - for national governments, the choice to accept revealing the existence of aliens now would be an implied endorsement of the current world order. e.g. everything has changed, we need to suspend new changes until we know more. Looks bad for elections. - it is a reason to dispense with rules and limits on sovereign powers that were created without this key ontological knowledge. Aliens are the ultimate existential emergency, states will do what they want "for humanity." Your privileges are a from a world that no longer exists, etc. - even if it's a hoax, elevating aliens to official news seizes back lost official narrative control, which twitter had made untenable this weekend. - Worst case scenario, it would imply a mandate from "above" to do whatever the coordinating body behind this revelation might have planned. Whether this alien thing is true or not, any mainstream acceptance of an alien visitation can be interpreted a signal for co-ordination around a narrative that would very likely be in service to these objectives, imo.
- graderjs 3y ago
  Nah man, if that were true, governments & corporate would have revealed the existence of aliens when they first knew about them. Rather than playing an elaborate counterintelligence cover game, pretending they have advanced projects reverse engineering, creating technology, a secret space program, to give the illusion of control and knowledge about some thing they don’t understand, they can’t reproduce, and they have no control over. You’re right, the aliens are above Earth governments, and corporations. But that’s why they can’t reveal them: why we gonna listen to them if there’s something better out there? The creation of a new priest class? unlikely. Official disclosure at this point just means the corporate government superstructure has become comfortable with vulnerability and they’re OK that humanity goes on this path together to adjust to this new reality, rather than thinking they have to lie, be afraid, and deny everything to keep it all super secret, just to protect their authority. The wiggle is that maybe they are only “comfortable with vulnerability” now that they think they can keep us under total control after our sheepishness during the pandemic. Hopefully not, but let’s see how this plays out, and if this even becomes or helps beget official disclosure.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
markus_zhang 3y ago
This reads like X-File season 13. I hope some of it is true. Real life is too boring amd frustrating.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  I think that's part of why such stories get traction. Real life is boring. People want something more. When something comes along, they hope it's true, and motivated reasoning comes in. This same mechanism can explain AI hope.
  - markus_zhang 3y ago
    Yeah I really hope this is real. I won't be able to participate for sure but the mere recognition of existence of such projects is going to impact global society profoundly.
Pompidou 3y ago
This claim is to common sens what tirany is to common good. If such absurdity become official, what is the next step ?
- graderjs 3y ago
  Well if common sens is based on the disinformation provided by a tyranical illegal secret structure, then waht? Heh Maybe you need to update your common sense. Make it uncommon sense, then it will be useful. :)
  - Pompidou 3y ago
    > tyranical illegal secret structure In what way something secret would be tyranical ? Illegitimate, ok, but not tyranical.
    - graderjs 3y ago
      Tyrany was your analogy. I assume you mean an unjust and illegitimate imposition upon the common good, is alike to an unjust and illegitimate imposition against common sens. You don't see how secrecy could be placed in the same position with regard to some other thing? Left as an exercise for the reader. Let me know if you want the next tip! Ha ha ha! :)
_1feg 3y ago
BS. They're just paving the way for them to claim their AGI systems are "aliens" after they regulate AI through the roof, so that they can herd the masses and maintain their reign of power. Probably create a new religion while they're at it too. With AI image, video and sound generation, there will be no way to tell the difference between an "alien" and some sophisticated neural network outputs. It's no coincidence that this sort of "leak" is happening right now amid all of the AI buzz, regulation talk and breakthroughs in AI tech.
markus_zhang 3y ago
Some thoughts: > It has since been reorganized and expanded into the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office to include investigations of objects operating underwater. This is a piece of important information. They probably have proof that there are interesting objects moving undersea or out of sea. > His on-the-record statements were all “cleared for open publication” on April 4 and 6, 2023, in documents provided to us. This basically means Mr. Grusch is not alone. He was probably "ordered" by his faction to go public. And the fact that the material gets cleared means that probably the ruling military faction approves it, but mainstream media, mostly serving other factions, refused to go public with the material. In fact, chief of CIA visited Beijing last month. Did they discuss anything about this? > a number of potential sources do not trust the leadership of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office established by Congress.” Who is this leadership? I suspect this is a civilian who knows nothing about this, thus not trusted. > The existence of complex historical programs involving the coordinated retrieval and study of exotic materials, dating back to the early 20th century, should no longer remain a secret God if this is true, I cannot imagine the span of the whole project globally. Was Tunguska the very first one?
43345dsfsdf 3y ago
we are clearly seeing superdimensional hardware, vessel which are observable from our three dimensions, but obviously exist in at least one extra dimension. Given how fast the can accelerate or instantly break, there could be two extra dimensions, being time a physical dimension from the point of view of a fifth dimension. Hence, FTL - faster than light - travel could exists, without breaking any law of physics valid in the three dimensional universe. And if time is physical dimension and you are "standing" on the fifth dimension, travelling backward or forward in time, could be a matter of just "walking" some meters, then you just went back in time, or walk in the opposite direction and you travelled to the future. From the point of view of a hyphotetical fifth dimension and being time a physical dimension, "everything" would be happening at once. You could even go further, in this context a "closed loop" in time could be possible, because now what you change in the past, doesn't create a new timeline (as in the multi-verse theories), but just changing some stuff in one point, then a few meters away - in the future - things consequently get changed. "The future changing the past". Also, if the UFOs are superdimensional objects it becames just logic the things can travel so fast underwater, because they are not interacting fully - probably - with the matter of the three dimensional space. There are other possibilities, the hyphotetitcal superdimensional UFOs probably can travel through solid matter as well, just as they do through air or water. Hence, some stories of UFOs using mountains as bases suddently make a bit of sense, even if you go to the mountain just to find rocks and apparently no bases. If you can displace mass through a hyphotetical upper dimension above our standard three dimensional o even fourth dimensional (including time), space, suddenly FTL becames a lot more easier, the travel from one star to other star could be instantaneous, or even to 100 galaxies away from your starting point. Also there you got another possible answer to the Fermi Paradox, the ETs are everywhere, it could hundreds of cities of ETs on the solar system right now, and the galaxy is blowing with life, but almost of them exist in upper dimensions beyond our three dimesional space, hence they remain mostly invisible to us. The UFOs then could very be just us, humans from the future, travelling to the past to look for something, maybe stuying us like we study Neanderthals.
SergeAx 3y ago
I wonder, how many sectoid corpses and Elereum they have?

154 points by swalsh 3y ago

turtleyacht 3y ago

Retrieved*

swalsh 3y ago
I manually rewrote the headline because it copied in all caps :( sorry. Fixed it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

graderjs 3y ago

Jonathan Grey says secrets have been necessary. “Though a tough nut to crack, potential technological advancements may be gleaned from non-human intelligence/UAP retrievals by any sufficiently advanced nation and then used to wage asymmetrical warfare, so, therefore, some secrecy must remain,” he says. “However, it is no longer necessary to continue to deny that these advanced technologies derived from non-human intelligence exist at all or to deny that these technologies have landed, crashed, or fallen into the hands of human beings.” - Jonathan Grey, the intelligence officer specializing in UAP analysis at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center, is speaking publicly for the first time, identified here under the identity he uses inside the agency. Also: https://web.archive.org/web/20230605130331/https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230605130331/https://thedebrie...

swalsh 3y ago
Being able to acknowledge they exist has to be more beneficial to our country. Open communication is essential to science. The more scientists with clearences we can get in, and cracking the nut, the better off the US will be.
- toastgrave 3y ago
  Does it? There was a study like 10 years ago saying more than 50% of adults believe in angels. I don't think they could comprehend this (if true).
  - swalsh 3y ago
    I'm guessing those people are not scientists.
    - graderjs 3y ago
      What if it's two sides of the same thing? May be closer than you think

kunalgupta 3y ago

Insane, but totally believable "a[n eighty year] Cold War for recovered and exploited physical material – a competition with near-peer adversaries over the years to identify UAP crashes/landings and retrieve the material for exploitation/reverse engineering to garner asymmetric national defense advantages."

elric 3y ago
How many of these crashes are there? Did these aliens fly halfway across a galaxy just to crash in our neck of the woods? Are they flying around in cheap junk? Or are they just terrible pilots? All those special vehicle morphologies and unique atomic arrangements just to crash land. Odd.
- david-gpu 3y ago
  We humans have crashed plenty of advanced craft on Mars. Does it mean it is not possible for us to travel long distances?
- Mulder911 3y ago
  If you define the veracity of such claims as facetious, consider the early experiments of Enrique Inglesias Fermi when he invented microwaves. No one disregards the book GWB was reading to that class on 9/11/21 and no one would because it was on camera. Please take care with your words as many here look up to you guys for explanations to the larger UCF topic. Thanks!
- winrid 3y ago
  Maybe it's an alien weather ship :P
- dan_mctree 3y ago
  It's possible that the crafts are not designed for the earth environment and that it is different enough from expected environments that there's some ways for these to crash. For example, they may not be able to handle earth storms, longer term exposure to microbe-containing rain or random bird collisions.

Rzor 3y ago

What irks me about all this is that it remained a "secret" quite well guarded for so long (and he characterizes as a global phenomenon, so gigantic surface area for public scrutiny/whistle-blowing)[1], but then I remember the PRISM program/Snowden revelations and I don't know what to think. Perhaps it's also valid to consider that it might be a top secret US aircraft that he judged to be of alien origin and no one in the military tried to correct it, for obvious reasons. [1] - “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”

graderjs 3y ago
But it wasn't secret. The narrative has been out there for ages but covered in disinformation so you can't see it properly. The disinformation caused people to see it as ridiculous, as was intended, so they ignored previous government whistleblowers with the same story.
- dbmnt 3y ago
  Yup. There was information about the NSA's Echelon program floating around for decades before Snowden. Check out the Public Disclosures section of this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON Despite multiple whistleblowers dating back to 1972, no one took it seriously until the Snowden leaks confirmed it without any doubt. For forty years this information remained below the surface.

mensetmanusman 3y ago

Maybe the aliens will finally come to warn us about turning on AGI. Ha

qup 3y ago
I wonder if they come and prevent us turning it on, or if they let us, and nuke it once it destroys us?

lisasays 3y ago

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures,” he said. Extraordinary claims -- extraordinary evidence. Show us some of these fragments, please. You know, the ones with the special "vehicle morphologies", the "unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures" and stuff. Otherwise, there's nothing to talk about here. And nothing fundamentally different from these claims than in all those glaring headlines we've been glancing past, at the top of few certain supermarket tabloids that don't need to be named -- for half a century now. "Secret Government Base Has Wreckage of Alien Craft ..."

spfzero 3y ago
Its hard to imagine so many people could have known about this for so long, yet it remained secret. I expect you could keep something like an assassination secret since everyone who knows about it is probably in some way complicit. Wouldn't be the case here. Also of course the energy required to get to Earth from somewhere else, for an organism that used any kind of "vehicle" we could recognize as such, would be enormous. But, good to stay open-minded.
- capableweb 3y ago
  Worth remembering that if in 2010 you claimed that the US government was spying on everyone via everything, you'd be called a conspiracy-nut, we now know that it was true, what so many people were claiming before that. I agree that probably there needs to be more evidence than "trust me, I've done this for a long time" in order for us to assert there is extra-terrestrial intelligence. But, I wouldn't believe it's false just based on "it couldn't have been hidden for this long".
  - Loquebantur 3y ago
    This isn't just "some guy claiming whatever". Not only is there an enormous backstory attached that people willfully choose to remain ignorant to, all kinds of people holding active positions in the highest relevant places are corroborating this. Even more importantly perhaps, part of the story is a decades-long disinformation program conducted against the US population and government itself, by rouge elements in the intelligence community.

hulitu 3y ago

Again ? Are the same aliens like in Rosswell ? /s

VincentEvans 3y ago

When these clearly superior beings that have advanced far beyond us come knocking, I am sure the first thing we should ask is - whether they accept Jesus as their lord and savior, as it seems very important to us.

giardini 3y ago
How we should handle our first encounters has been asked before in an article titled: "Kill Them And Eat Them" (opinion) by Jules Siegel, illustrated by Doug Taylor in Playboy Magazine August 1977 vol.24, no.8 IIRC the article argues that: - every modern civilization has been a disaster for less-modern ones, - the only group that have survived encounters with modern civilization are the Yanomami Indians of the Amazon who have avoided cultural contamination by killing and eating anyone who intrudes upon their territory. Therefore... - we should adopt the Yanomamis' strategy in dealing with advanced civilizations. Perhaps you are right about Jesus. Perhaps Jesus and the Yanomami would be quite compatible. After all, when I was a teen we played guitars and sang songs at Mass. One relevant verse comes to mind: Eat His body, Drink His blood, And we'll sing A song of love, Allelu-, allelu-, allelu-, alleluia.

keernan 3y ago

Interesting word choice: 'non-human' vs 'extra-terrestrial'

romseb 3y ago
This is in parts to remove the baggage that comes with the word, but also to be more precise in what is described here: https://i.redd.it/sm2tecjyuqf91.png https://i.redd.it/sm2tecjyuqf91.png
- keernan 3y ago
  That's incredibly thorough. I guess I've not given it sufficient thought before.
_1feg 3y ago
Very calculated wording. Gives them a form of outs if the population realizes that it's actually just the US government generating fake "alien" stories to control the masses using sophisticated AI/AGI technology, they can then claim "actually we always knew it was advanced AI beings".
moab9 3y ago
yeah, probably hollow-earthers.

prirun 3y ago

I can believe there would be a lot of competition between the different armed services and even private corporations in keeping this kind of information to themselves, to allow them to use the information for their own private gain. For example, the Air Force would want it kept to themselves for "their" future technology plans and wouldn't want the Navy to get it for "their" plans. And the same for individuals and corporations who might benefit from the study of such information, objects, etc. So while it may seem nearly impossible to keep this information secret for decades, I believe it's possible, with enough threatening and potential for personal gain. For me, Snowden completely debunked "it's not possible to keep that big of a secret for so long".

graderjs 3y ago
This was never a secret tho. Define secret. It's not "unknown", in this case, is it? That's part of the plan. The machinery of secrecy: disinformation. Poison the well with so much crazy balderdash, that you end up hiding in plain sight. This narrative has been out for decades, and previous government insiders have come forward, but it's always carefully constructed with many "outs", so that people can dismiss it. So it's not secret, people have known about this, and you may have been told about this, but you would have dismissed it as crazy. That's part of the plan. That's how you keep a secret, you get the people to keep it for you. By not hiding it, just making it seem ridiculous. Of course the details, real and high quality photos/videos or aliens, and actual physical craft you can go and touch, are still hidden. But through the vanguard of disinformation you can help protect all that by making any approach to the topic seem ridiculous. Then even if anyone leaks from that special access project area, you are aided by the fact that people view the whole topic through the lens of the ridiculousness you have carefully created. A comprehensive counterintelligence strategy. Is how you do it. I guess.

blazespin 3y ago

Look, I'm as skeptical as anyone, but please watch your rebuttal. When has there ever been a senior official with a significant reputation coming out like this? That in itself is 'extraordinary' evidence. Is this proof that life is out there? No, but if you're not updating your priors, you're not rational.

IAmGraydon 3y ago
The identity of the "whistleblower" doesn't change the fact that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that this has been claimed to have happened in multiple countries over multiple decades and yet there is not a single picture that doesn't look like it was taken with a potato. There is not a single sample of material. None of the craft has ever fallen into civilian hands. All of the involved governments have been able to keep it a secret. As I'm sure all of you are aware, all of this is statistically improbable to the point that it can likely be safely considered to be untrue. If we're considering probabilities, I think it's far more likely that the US Government is running some kind of psychological operation.
- Loquebantur 3y ago
  Nothing of what you claim there is true to begin with. People encountering this topic have a weird tendency to take their own lack of knowledge as "proof" for inexistence of anything worthwhile. You cannot claim to be an "expert"(in itself a term only referring to human knowledge) in something without actually having checked with other experts in the field.
  - IAmGraydon 3y ago
    Oh good so there is material evidence of this occurring. Eagerly awaiting your post with links to said evidence.
    - Loquebantur 3y ago
      Your claim was > There is not a single sample of material. There are multiple. Maybe look here for starters: https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-garry-nolan-analyzing-anomalous-materials-from-ufo-crashes https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-ga...

ComodoHacker 3y ago

Companion article on how they have fact-checked all this: https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/ https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founde...

lb4r 3y ago
So no fact-checking was done about their actual claims, only about who the people behind those claims actually are?

uhtred 3y ago

Please release the pictures and distract everyone so I don't have to figure out this disgusting mishmash of visual basic and sql anymore.

speakfreely 3y ago

While the content sounds good, the context is off. Here's the top domains of the first page of Google results when you Google this officer's name: debrief.org, nysun.com, dailystar.co.uk, dailymail.co.uk, the-sun.com, brobible.com, ar15.com, dailywire.com, m4carbine.net These are the same sites I would expect to see blurry pictures of Big Foot. Unless we're assuming that the Department of Defense is capable of suppressing every major news outlet?

david-gpu 3y ago
The authors of the article are Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal, the people who broke off the news about the secret US program to study UFOs on the New York Times back in 2017 and 2018. The other journalist that has interviewed the whistleblower is Ross Coulthart, the award-winning investigative journalist who published interviews with Nat Kobitz, former US Navy Science and Tech Director, who claimed to have knowledge of a program to reverse-engineer crashed UFOs. The people who are breaking these news can't be dismissed easily.
- speakfreely 3y ago
  So New York Times, where Ralph worked for 45 years, was not interested in this story? They also mention the Washington Post did not run it, claiming they "needed to publish quickly" without explaining why they couldn't wait for WaPo to authenticate it.
  - graderjs 3y ago
    It's not just not the mainstream media onto it. Even the dedicated UFO gatekeepers haven't touched it yet. I think that indicates that: it's factional, and it's a new faction.
    - graderjs 3y ago
      Paraphrasing this guy: "The story is bigger than Snowden. It's just breaking and mainstream media have had a month lead on it, been approached, but refused. It should have people writing to their representatives to investigate Gursch's allegations. People should be outraged at the criminal activity that has gone on outside of oversight. Media is complicit so far." https://youtu.be/rQjbFZT9_EM?t=1370 https://youtu.be/rQjbFZT9_EM?t=1370

ashesharma 3y ago

I feel bad for the whistleblower … unless he smuggled a piece out of the UFO or takes a guided tour of UFOs with our brightest scientists taking measurements, no one is going to take him seriously . Further may risk pushing the topic into more incredulity

King-Aaron 3y ago
It does sound like the guy was the head of the pentagon's UAP taskforce, and also a senior high level advisor to the president. Not taking him seriously might be the wrong approach?

motohagiography 3y ago

Whether it's true or not, there are some predictable consequences to a mainstream "proof of aliens" scenario: - for national governments, the choice to accept revealing the existence of aliens now would be an implied endorsement of the current world order. e.g. everything has changed, we need to suspend new changes until we know more. Looks bad for elections. - it is a reason to dispense with rules and limits on sovereign powers that were created without this key ontological knowledge. Aliens are the ultimate existential emergency, states will do what they want "for humanity." Your privileges are a from a world that no longer exists, etc. - even if it's a hoax, elevating aliens to official news seizes back lost official narrative control, which twitter had made untenable this weekend. - Worst case scenario, it would imply a mandate from "above" to do whatever the coordinating body behind this revelation might have planned. Whether this alien thing is true or not, any mainstream acceptance of an alien visitation can be interpreted a signal for co-ordination around a narrative that would very likely be in service to these objectives, imo.

graderjs 3y ago
Nah man, if that were true, governments & corporate would have revealed the existence of aliens when they first knew about them. Rather than playing an elaborate counterintelligence cover game, pretending they have advanced projects reverse engineering, creating technology, a secret space program, to give the illusion of control and knowledge about some thing they don’t understand, they can’t reproduce, and they have no control over. You’re right, the aliens are above Earth governments, and corporations. But that’s why they can’t reveal them: why we gonna listen to them if there’s something better out there? The creation of a new priest class? unlikely. Official disclosure at this point just means the corporate government superstructure has become comfortable with vulnerability and they’re OK that humanity goes on this path together to adjust to this new reality, rather than thinking they have to lie, be afraid, and deny everything to keep it all super secret, just to protect their authority. The wiggle is that maybe they are only “comfortable with vulnerability” now that they think they can keep us under total control after our sheepishness during the pandemic. Hopefully not, but let’s see how this plays out, and if this even becomes or helps beget official disclosure.

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markus_zhang 3y ago

This reads like X-File season 13. I hope some of it is true. Real life is too boring amd frustrating.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
I think that's part of why such stories get traction. Real life is boring. People want something more. When something comes along, they hope it's true, and motivated reasoning comes in. This same mechanism can explain AI hope.
- markus_zhang 3y ago
  Yeah I really hope this is real. I won't be able to participate for sure but the mere recognition of existence of such projects is going to impact global society profoundly.

Pompidou 3y ago

This claim is to common sens what tirany is to common good. If such absurdity become official, what is the next step ?

graderjs 3y ago
Well if common sens is based on the disinformation provided by a tyranical illegal secret structure, then waht? Heh Maybe you need to update your common sense. Make it uncommon sense, then it will be useful. :)
- Pompidou 3y ago
  > tyranical illegal secret structure In what way something secret would be tyranical ? Illegitimate, ok, but not tyranical.
  - graderjs 3y ago
    Tyrany was your analogy. I assume you mean an unjust and illegitimate imposition upon the common good, is alike to an unjust and illegitimate imposition against common sens. You don't see how secrecy could be placed in the same position with regard to some other thing? Left as an exercise for the reader. Let me know if you want the next tip! Ha ha ha! :)

_1feg 3y ago

BS. They're just paving the way for them to claim their AGI systems are "aliens" after they regulate AI through the roof, so that they can herd the masses and maintain their reign of power. Probably create a new religion while they're at it too. With AI image, video and sound generation, there will be no way to tell the difference between an "alien" and some sophisticated neural network outputs. It's no coincidence that this sort of "leak" is happening right now amid all of the AI buzz, regulation talk and breakthroughs in AI tech.

markus_zhang 3y ago

Some thoughts: > It has since been reorganized and expanded into the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office to include investigations of objects operating underwater. This is a piece of important information. They probably have proof that there are interesting objects moving undersea or out of sea. > His on-the-record statements were all “cleared for open publication” on April 4 and 6, 2023, in documents provided to us. This basically means Mr. Grusch is not alone. He was probably "ordered" by his faction to go public. And the fact that the material gets cleared means that probably the ruling military faction approves it, but mainstream media, mostly serving other factions, refused to go public with the material. In fact, chief of CIA visited Beijing last month. Did they discuss anything about this? > a number of potential sources do not trust the leadership of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office established by Congress.” Who is this leadership? I suspect this is a civilian who knows nothing about this, thus not trusted. > The existence of complex historical programs involving the coordinated retrieval and study of exotic materials, dating back to the early 20th century, should no longer remain a secret God if this is true, I cannot imagine the span of the whole project globally. Was Tunguska the very first one?

43345dsfsdf 3y ago

we are clearly seeing superdimensional hardware, vessel which are observable from our three dimensions, but obviously exist in at least one extra dimension. Given how fast the can accelerate or instantly break, there could be two extra dimensions, being time a physical dimension from the point of view of a fifth dimension. Hence, FTL - faster than light - travel could exists, without breaking any law of physics valid in the three dimensional universe. And if time is physical dimension and you are "standing" on the fifth dimension, travelling backward or forward in time, could be a matter of just "walking" some meters, then you just went back in time, or walk in the opposite direction and you travelled to the future. From the point of view of a hyphotetical fifth dimension and being time a physical dimension, "everything" would be happening at once. You could even go further, in this context a "closed loop" in time could be possible, because now what you change in the past, doesn't create a new timeline (as in the multi-verse theories), but just changing some stuff in one point, then a few meters away - in the future - things consequently get changed. "The future changing the past". Also, if the UFOs are superdimensional objects it becames just logic the things can travel so fast underwater, because they are not interacting fully - probably - with the matter of the three dimensional space. There are other possibilities, the hyphotetitcal superdimensional UFOs probably can travel through solid matter as well, just as they do through air or water. Hence, some stories of UFOs using mountains as bases suddently make a bit of sense, even if you go to the mountain just to find rocks and apparently no bases. If you can displace mass through a hyphotetical upper dimension above our standard three dimensional o even fourth dimensional (including time), space, suddenly FTL becames a lot more easier, the travel from one star to other star could be instantaneous, or even to 100 galaxies away from your starting point. Also there you got another possible answer to the Fermi Paradox, the ETs are everywhere, it could hundreds of cities of ETs on the solar system right now, and the galaxy is blowing with life, but almost of them exist in upper dimensions beyond our three dimesional space, hence they remain mostly invisible to us. The UFOs then could very be just us, humans from the future, travelling to the past to look for something, maybe stuying us like we study Neanderthals.

SergeAx 3y ago

I wonder, how many sectoid corpses and Elereum they have?