4 ms·

> Also, 80k USD a year is a ton by European standards The rest of Europe doesn't have to import nearly as much food and at high tariffs. If it isn't fish, lam

> Also, 80k USD a year is a ton by European standards The rest of Europe doesn't have to import nearly as much food and at high tariffs. If it isn't fish, lamb, potatoes, some garden veg or oats, it's coming over on a boat. The price of a single lime at Bónus will make your eyes water.

paddim8 3y ago
Food is not a huge expense though. I spend 150€ a month in Sweden. Even if it was twice as expensive in Iceland, it wouldn't be too bad. They have a very high disposable income. And things like heating and electricity are basically free.
- Styrminator 3y ago
  Icelander here as well, I've worked in Norway, the UK and Germany. An 80k salary here buys you the lifestyle of a 50k salary in Berlin, the only reason I moved back is kids and grandparents.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Was that rent driven? Because Berlon is, still, considered cheap. Not everywhere and a lotnofnlocal are getting priced out since at least the early 2010s, but still cheap compared to places like Munich or Frankfurt.
    - Styrminator 3y ago
      No, I can't say it's rent driven per se as there are other factors but housing issues have gotten progressively worse last 20 years or so, same problem as everywhere else except that in our case it's amplified by having to structure an economy around the peculiarities of having world's second smallest independent currency in our wallets. That said, there definitely exist worse housing markets in the world, this is no Munich. Regarding the currency, that Iceland is expensive, is partly due to rules such as our pension funds not being allowed to invest but 20% of their fund outside the country, a rule designed to reduce the downward pressure on the local currency and create demand for it that would otherwise exist to a smaller degree as the long-term returns of local investments have been worse than the performance of the "foreign" portfolio. Mix such rules which create "artificial" demand, actual demand for the currency from tourism, indexed mortgages (a concept so unbelievable I've added a link at the bottom) driving up prices and you end up with a situation where economic problems are one of the few things that we don't have to import. https://www.islandsbanki.is/en/news/what-is-an-indexed-mortgage https://www.islandsbanki.is/en/news/what-is-an-indexed-mortg...
- victorbjorklund 3y ago
  Spending 1.6 euros (18,50 SEK) per meal (assuming 3 meals per day) including eating out etc is very low. That is far from the average in Sweden. And it is even more far from being what you spend if you wanna eat out a lot (which many high income tech people want). I'm not judging (I spend very low amounts on food myself) but you can't really say you are representative for the average tech worker in Sweden when it comes to food spending.
- EddieEngineers 3y ago
  I’m moving to Sweden from the Bay Area and this seems very low - I spend that for myself and my wife probably over two days (including coffees etc)… Is this the genuine average? It’ll make me swallow lower salaries a lot easier!
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    Nope, that is extremely low. I would double that for buying food just from a super market. And even then it is likely not too special. 150€ sounds like the advertised poor person diet. Rice, beans, cheap vegetables like potatoes, little of cheap meat(chicken legs maybe).
    - triceratops 3y ago
      > 150€ sounds like the advertised poor person diet. Rice, beans, cheap vegetables like potatoes, little of cheap meat(chicken legs maybe). That's my diet too lol. Am I eating like a poor person? TIL
      - Scoundreller 3y ago
        Hopefully you’re not eating like that and poor. If you did, you’re going to live a long time and need to save a ton for a long retirement!
        triceratops 3y ago
        "Only the rich can truly afford to eat like they're poor" - Scoundreller
  - rlkf 3y ago
    The average expenditure on food and staples of a Norwegian household is according to national statistics €235/month/person (not including dining out); based on the general cost difference between Norway and Sweden, this should translate into €210/month/person.
- moralestapia 3y ago
  5 euros per day, come on man. That's not enough even in LATAM.
Scoundreller 3y ago
> it's coming over on a boat. Is a maritime shipping supposed to drive up prices or something? I thought it was the cheapest way to go, to the point of being cheaper than trucking. The only exception I can see if for stuff that doesn’t store well, but controlled atmospheres have done a ton to make it possible to eat “local” apples in the middle of winter. I’m in Canada and it seems to be a wash whether our citrus comes from Spain, North Africa or Florida.
- rchaud 3y ago
  Canada has 100x Iceland's population, and population centres are heavily concentrated near the border with the US. The delivery logistics are there. Now change that to Hawaii or remote First Nation communities and those costs go up dramatically.
  - gusgus01 3y ago
    Idk if it's considered a lot or not, but this source estimates transportation to Hawaii to increase the price of goods by a max of about 7.5%, while in all likelihood it's much less due to modern shipping. https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/04/living-hawaii-how-much-does-shipping-increase-the-cost-of-living/ https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/04/living-hawaii-how-much-doe...
    - MrDresden 3y ago
      Labour costs are the reason for the biggest chunk of Icelandic prices plus taxes. Since this is HN I will add that I am ok with both of those. Wages for unskilled labour should be high enough to live on, and taxes pay for our social infrastructure.
hef19898 3y ago
We've been there last year. Truth be told, groccery shoppong was nowhere close to what it used to be ten years ago. Actually, groccery prices used to, in total, on par with France at the time and only slightly above Germany. I do remember the time 3 (!) onions were as expensive as 1.5 kg in Germany. Overall, and I have no idea about rent or salaries, groccery prices were reasonable for 2022.

paddim8 3y ago

Food is not a huge expense though. I spend 150€ a month in Sweden. Even if it was twice as expensive in Iceland, it wouldn't be too bad. They have a very high disposable income. And things like heating and electricity are basically free.

Styrminator 3y ago
Icelander here as well, I've worked in Norway, the UK and Germany. An 80k salary here buys you the lifestyle of a 50k salary in Berlin, the only reason I moved back is kids and grandparents.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Was that rent driven? Because Berlon is, still, considered cheap. Not everywhere and a lotnofnlocal are getting priced out since at least the early 2010s, but still cheap compared to places like Munich or Frankfurt.
  - Styrminator 3y ago
    No, I can't say it's rent driven per se as there are other factors but housing issues have gotten progressively worse last 20 years or so, same problem as everywhere else except that in our case it's amplified by having to structure an economy around the peculiarities of having world's second smallest independent currency in our wallets. That said, there definitely exist worse housing markets in the world, this is no Munich. Regarding the currency, that Iceland is expensive, is partly due to rules such as our pension funds not being allowed to invest but 20% of their fund outside the country, a rule designed to reduce the downward pressure on the local currency and create demand for it that would otherwise exist to a smaller degree as the long-term returns of local investments have been worse than the performance of the "foreign" portfolio. Mix such rules which create "artificial" demand, actual demand for the currency from tourism, indexed mortgages (a concept so unbelievable I've added a link at the bottom) driving up prices and you end up with a situation where economic problems are one of the few things that we don't have to import. https://www.islandsbanki.is/en/news/what-is-an-indexed-mortgage https://www.islandsbanki.is/en/news/what-is-an-indexed-mortg...
victorbjorklund 3y ago
Spending 1.6 euros (18,50 SEK) per meal (assuming 3 meals per day) including eating out etc is very low. That is far from the average in Sweden. And it is even more far from being what you spend if you wanna eat out a lot (which many high income tech people want). I'm not judging (I spend very low amounts on food myself) but you can't really say you are representative for the average tech worker in Sweden when it comes to food spending.
EddieEngineers 3y ago
I’m moving to Sweden from the Bay Area and this seems very low - I spend that for myself and my wife probably over two days (including coffees etc)… Is this the genuine average? It’ll make me swallow lower salaries a lot easier!
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Nope, that is extremely low. I would double that for buying food just from a super market. And even then it is likely not too special. 150€ sounds like the advertised poor person diet. Rice, beans, cheap vegetables like potatoes, little of cheap meat(chicken legs maybe).
  - triceratops 3y ago
    > 150€ sounds like the advertised poor person diet. Rice, beans, cheap vegetables like potatoes, little of cheap meat(chicken legs maybe). That's my diet too lol. Am I eating like a poor person? TIL
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      Hopefully you’re not eating like that and poor. If you did, you’re going to live a long time and need to save a ton for a long retirement!
      - triceratops 3y ago
        "Only the rich can truly afford to eat like they're poor" - Scoundreller
- rlkf 3y ago
  The average expenditure on food and staples of a Norwegian household is according to national statistics €235/month/person (not including dining out); based on the general cost difference between Norway and Sweden, this should translate into €210/month/person.
moralestapia 3y ago
5 euros per day, come on man. That's not enough even in LATAM.

Scoundreller 3y ago

> it's coming over on a boat. Is a maritime shipping supposed to drive up prices or something? I thought it was the cheapest way to go, to the point of being cheaper than trucking. The only exception I can see if for stuff that doesn’t store well, but controlled atmospheres have done a ton to make it possible to eat “local” apples in the middle of winter. I’m in Canada and it seems to be a wash whether our citrus comes from Spain, North Africa or Florida.

rchaud 3y ago
Canada has 100x Iceland's population, and population centres are heavily concentrated near the border with the US. The delivery logistics are there. Now change that to Hawaii or remote First Nation communities and those costs go up dramatically.
- gusgus01 3y ago
  Idk if it's considered a lot or not, but this source estimates transportation to Hawaii to increase the price of goods by a max of about 7.5%, while in all likelihood it's much less due to modern shipping. https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/04/living-hawaii-how-much-does-shipping-increase-the-cost-of-living/ https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/04/living-hawaii-how-much-doe...
  - MrDresden 3y ago
    Labour costs are the reason for the biggest chunk of Icelandic prices plus taxes. Since this is HN I will add that I am ok with both of those. Wages for unskilled labour should be high enough to live on, and taxes pay for our social infrastructure.

hef19898 3y ago

We've been there last year. Truth be told, groccery shoppong was nowhere close to what it used to be ten years ago. Actually, groccery prices used to, in total, on par with France at the time and only slightly above Germany. I do remember the time 3 (!) onions were as expensive as 1.5 kg in Germany. Overall, and I have no idea about rent or salaries, groccery prices were reasonable for 2022.