8 ms·

When digital nomads come to town

omneity 3y ago
For the urban development minded HNers out there, would it make sense to build a dedicated tech hub next to the city so that rent and cost of life is less sensitive to it or is gentrification unavoidable?
- WJW 3y ago
  How would you prevent non-techies living in the tech hub and vice versa? If the cost-of-living differential is larger than the cost of commuting back and forth you can bet that people will notice and act accordingly.
  - charlie0 3y ago
    Balaji's Network State. If we can all get together in advance and co-ordinate, techies can likely set up their own communities.
    - WJW 3y ago
      > If we can all get together in advance and co-ordinate Haha yes. If you can get humans to do that, solving housing prices is one of the less interesting things you can do. World peace and solving child hunger are just some starter projects if you could finally solve the coordination problems of large groups. Techies can barely get together and decide which editor is the best, let alone decide on housing allocation or decide which types of schooling to allow in "their" neighborhood. Also an enforced tech-only community sounds super dystopian. Would you get kicked out of your house if you lose your job or change careers?
- yardie 3y ago
  Historically, most tech hubs have been outside the city. Commercial real estate was cheaper and a mature tech company would choose a family friendly location for its administration and engineers.
- dangerwill 3y ago
  This happens to be the exact situation in Seattle. Bellevue is technically a different city from Seattle, across the lake and is where most of the tech is. But its rather low density, because the people that got in before the tech boom don't want their property values to go down, so there is opposition to allowing dense (5-8 story apartment buildings) development. This low density means that the median house price in the area is like 1-2 million dollars and only tech employees can even afford to rent in the area. And because its so low density, (and because people like living in the city proper instead of a soulless series of office parks) there are a TON of tech employees that end up living in Seattle proper. Which then leads to gentrification in Cap Hill, the University district, Ballard, etc. It also leads to nearly LA style traffic crunches during commuting hours. In my opinion, you can't micro-target your way out of gentrification and sky high urban rents/prices. The only thing you can do is to take away the ability of local communities to oppose high density, build a lot of dense housing where you outpace the population growth and build out in basically every direction, and then build commuter rail lines to connect areas as you build out. Finally though, the city/state has to be the one to actually pay the builders for the housing to go up, not a developer which is where YIMBY experiments have failed. A developer that both contracts for the construction and then sells the finished product has all of the incentives to add artificial costs and delays when a municipality pays them to generate new housing on the market, because every additional building they add marginally lowers the value of every other building they have on the market.
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    Developers are not a major source of delays, and benefit from getting their money back faster. We’re so far behind in housing waiting isn’t going to help prices significantly. Also many unnecessary costs, such as parking minimums are govt requirements.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
5350-uiop-1130 3y ago
hipsters gentrifying the world. doodling on their moleskin notebooks and browsing twitter on their apple macbooks. i blame tim ferris and that weinerchuck guy.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
systemtest 3y ago
On nearly every article about digital nomads I see people hunched over working on a laptop sitting on a non-adjustable chair, or working on their laptop on the couch. Natural light also seems to be lacking in the pictures from this article. I admire their lifestyle but having experience with RSI I will never work somewhere that doesn't have a height adjustable desk, ergonomic seat and at least a laptop stand to raise it to eye level. Preferably an external monitor. Assuming these people have an above average income for the region they are in, can't they afford to rent a co-op space somewhere that allows them to work in a healthy way with good posture?
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  I think many people are used to poor working conditions and don't realize how bad it is. The company where I work has a token interest in ergonomics, so the desks are somewhat height adjustable (as in they're not strictly impossible to adjust, but it's not very practical – but since we don't do hot-desking it's fine enough). They provide office chairs which, while not great, offer the usual adjustments. If you have special needs, say you're too tall and the desk doesn't go high enough, they'll find ways to accommodate you. In my specific office ("IT"), we have somewhat better conditions, with displays that can actually be set at the correct level, etc. Still, many people will just spend their days hunched over their laptops ignoring the screen in front of them, sit in chairs set comically low or high, etc.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  A lot of digital nomads are in their 20s, which doesn't mean they shouldn't think about RSI, but that they are less likely to. Plenty of them are older than that, but even then, it's a group which self-selects for priorities other than ergonomics. At their future peril, I'm sure.
- best_one_there 3y ago
  It's just not a long term thing, for obvious reasons. People do it for a bit and then realise that the lifestyle is transient. So it doesn't go on long enough to cause serious problems. If you're still doing this at age 50 then you'll be a lonely old man.
- 3y ago
soared 3y ago
Interesting to compare medellin with some American cities that are having similar issues - small mountain towns in Colorado for example have a lot the same problems but at a much smaller scale. But I do find the gentrification causing each city to look the same sad, a neighborhood I visited in Mexico City looked identical the the richest shopping neighborhood in Denver.
- CPLX 3y ago
  I mean the world is pretty global these days. I spent a week in the San Pedro neighborhood of Monterrey and if yon blink twice you’ll think you’re in San Diego or Houston. Pretty sure there’s basically zero influence of digital nomads. It’s just kind of how things are.
brundolf 3y ago
This has happened on a smaller scale (maybe 2x the cost instead of 10x) here in Austin over the past ~10 years. Less nomads and more permanent moves of course, but it's distorted the local economy in the same way Housing can't keep up, local businesses have been replaced by same-y luxury ones, and longtime residents have had to move (or some just become homeless) because they can't afford it anymore. It's been a shame to see. Economic influx isn't always a good thing.
PragmaticPulp 3y ago
I have a hard time believing that a handful of digital nomads are responsible for rent increases and the other changes mentioned in the article. In the US, you can find people from nearly every state who believe that Californians are responsible for driving up home prices. This article feels like an international version of that same myth. As for digital nomads, my experience hiring or working with digital nomads has been universally negative for many years. All anecdotes, of course, but every one of them treated the job like a side project that they’d get to whenever they had some free time during a permanent vacation lifestyle. Some of them produced good work if you could micromanage them enough to make sure they were actually working, but the rest of the time felt like a game of chicken where they were constantly trying to push the limits of how little work they could do or how many meetings (rare but important at the time) they could miss or have their “camera broken” while they obviously tried to half listen in from some vacation spot. I’m sure there are good digital nomads out there, but I’ve been burned enough time that I prefer not to work with them unless it’s on a well-defined contract basis with clear project-based fees.
- survirtual 3y ago
  Agreed on the fact that digital nomads are not the prime contributors -- that can be largely attributed to corporate rental orgs, foreign investment safe havens, airbnb, and a small class of wealthy people using homes / land as wealth stores. As for your other point... It is easy to blame people as a class for their inability to meet your expectations, but I would encourage more self-reflection and not axing a whole group of workers because of some bad experiences. Here is an alternative view, because I think that it's important to acknowledge the evolving work-lifestyle balance that many individuals, especially digital nomads, are adopting today. Instead of prioritizing work over life, they choose to intertwine the two, enhancing their experiences and broadening their perspectives. In engaging with digital nomads, they have largely come to a better understanding about work and life. They are not letting work get in the way of their living. The work you’re offering becomes a part of their life, rather than the defining factor. They tend to prefer environments where rigid structures and unproductive meetings make way for flexibility, creativity, and efficient communication. Working with digital nomads requires a shift in traditional managerial approaches. Here are some recommendations: - Effective Communication: Ensure meetings are purposeful and time-efficient. Adopt asynchronous communication, which respects the nomad’s flexible schedule and promotes a healthy work-life balance. - Clear Goals: Communicate your vision, objectives, and deadlines clearly. This ensures expectations align and facilitates the digital nomad’s proactive role in the project. - Flexible Schedules: Embrace flexibility in terms of work schedules. Trust your team to meet the agreed-upon deadlines, focusing more on the quality of outcomes rather than hours logged. - Measurable Benchmarks: Establish clear, achievable benchmarks. This helps in maintaining a project’s momentum and provides a clear gauge of progress. - Clarity in Tasks: Digital nomads value their time, hence it’s crucial that tasks are defined precisely. Ambiguity may lead to delays and misunderstandings. - Realistic Expectations: Understand the work scope and timelines. Overestimating or underestimating these aspects can lead to frustration and tension in the professional relationship. In order to foster a healthier work dynamic, consider the following: - Trust-Based Relationships: Build trust by focusing on outcomes, not micromanaging. This fosters a sense of responsibility and ownership in the nomad. - Meaningful Work: Provide stimulating and meaningful work. This encourages engagement and can lead to higher productivity. - Experiential Opportunities: If possible, integrate opportunities for travel and new experiences into your work offerings. This aligns with the nomad’s lifestyle and enhances their work satisfaction. In essence, it’s not about confining individuals to boxes, but adapting to their style of work and making the most of the unique skills and perspectives they bring to the table. When work and life coexist harmoniously, the results can be rewarding for both the individual and the employer. If you can find a way to merge experience with work in an authentic way, you will have a better experience with these sorts.
galleywest200 3y ago
When I picture the phrase "tech nomad" I picture someone working from hotels and campsites, short term stays. It must mean something else to others, as I am unsure how camping while working would drive up rent prices.
- lambic 3y ago
  I expect most "tech nomads" use Airbnb and the like.
jakeinspace 3y ago
Why not just like, become a regular expat and learn the local language, become part of the culture, and spend your money at regular local businesses? I don’t see the appeal of spending time and money at little SV in Medellin.
- quad_eye_oh 3y ago
  The advantage as I see it of being a digital nomad is that one gets paid US salaries and gets to enjoy foreign costs of living. For example, software engineers in Europe make less than half of what SV software engineers make, and salaries in Asia (outside of Shenzhen) are even worse. For example, Korean SEs start at 30,000 to 40,000 USD, and get raises at the same percentages as non-SEs. (This is why Korean companies tend to hire superstar Western expats into VP rather than engineer positions.) So on economics alone, digital nomads can have their cake and eat it too. The nomadic half of the digital nomad comes as a result of national visa regulations: Outside of the EU, countries don't usually authorize long term visas unless you work full time for their domestic companies, so digital nomads enter on 90 day tourist visas and hide the fact that they are working for a company in their homeland. The whole practice is of course of questionable legality, and that is why they are nomadic: they can't stay for longer than 90 days. Then as a result they don't get to go very native. Can't really learn the language and culture in 90 days while working full time.
  - Jcampuzano2 3y ago
    You may not be able to learn all of the culture, but if you're for example primarily living as a digital nomad in South America or other areas with a common language you for sure can pick up the language if you put in the effort. I've lived my fair share of 90 day stints all over South America, and I did make the effort to learn Spanish. I started off 3-4 years ago with 0 Spanish and now I am non-native fluent. I can communicate clearly and don't have issues with speaking to natives and even have local friends in many of the places I have gone (I have revisited plenty of them more than once). I may not catch all the colloquialism of course, but I do try to learn them and the culture wherever I go (what is the local slang, preferred word choices, etc). Unfortunately I do know a lot of Digital Nomads who unlike myself basically never learn the local language and stick to their bubble of other english speaking nomads. I think this is sort of a shame personally.
sbuccini 3y ago
This article is pretty off-base with its description of Medellín from my experience (lived in Laureles for ~1 year with some locals). Medellín has been a digital nomading hotspot since at least 2016. It is not “in the early stages of nomadification”. Laureles is not a middle-class neighborhood. Insinuating that the “gringo price” for an apartment is what a local (or even a gringo who can speak Spanish) will pay is dishonest. And while I love paisas, it’s disingenuous to complain about the rich gringos when much of the current middle-class Colombian lifestyle is powered by Venezuelan migrant workers.
- basisword 3y ago
  >> Medellín has been a digital nomading hotspot since at least 2016. Most people couldn’t even dream of working remotely in 2016. Now, a huge number of people have it as a viable option. So although it may have been popular with nomads in 2016 the number of nomads has grown exponentially since then.
- codethief 3y ago
  > Laureles is not a middle-class neighborhood. How would you classify it? I mean it's definitely not upscale as the article claims in the very beginning but it surely is one of the more decent neighborhoods. I guess it depends on one's definition of "middle class". > Insinuating that the “gringo price” for an apartment is what a local (or even a gringo who can speak Spanish) will pay is dishonest. Agreed, there is a gap in the causality chain here. Lots of places in the world have "special" prices for visitors but it doesn't automatically mean those prices will impact inflation from the point of view of locals. Getting back to the article, > A one-bedroom in Medellín now rents for the “gringo price” of about $1,300 a month, in a country where the median monthly income is $300. they are really comparing apples and oranges here. A gringo tourist might pay $1,300 for a fancy apartment in a high rise in one of those upscale gated communities in Poblado. But 1) this price still includes a gringo surcharge, 2) most locals (i.e. the ones with the $300 income) don't live in such apartments, and 3) the few locals that do live in such apartments have a considerably higher monthly income.
paxys 3y ago
I have been to a lot of the cities mentioned in the article, and one thing I found is that most of these "digital nomads" are better classified as long-term tourists. They don't have real businesses, aren't doing any real work and aren't making any money. Their day mostly comprises "working" for a couple hours at some coffee shop and spending the rest of the day/night socializing and partying. When reality strikes and their savings start to deplete (and/or their company's HR department calls them back to the US) they will promptly pack up and leave.
mellosouls 3y ago
Seems like pretty standard gentrification with the "digital nomad" label to give it a cool new spin, and an easy villain to understand and dislike. "Oblivious middle class hipster types" is the likely caricature - but they are probably quite varied and less clichéd in reality; it presumably takes an element of individuality, imagination and courage to venture out like that, even where the privilege is also there.
karaterobot 3y ago
I need a clear argument for why having a comparatively small number of comparatively rich people come to your small town is actually something people should be deeply worried about. I've heard a lot of chicken little type catastrophizing without a lot of hard, unambiguous data to back it up. I get that digital nomads might be annoying and boorish: people with 100x as much money as you, who don't speak your language and don't know anything about your culture, and live in a little bubble of luxury right next to where you are just getting by. That would make me mad. I could see rolling your eyes hard. But, are these arguments about them destroying towns and neighborhoods coming from a place of fact, or a place of emotion?
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  I remember back when attracting money spenders to the area was considered great for business and jobs, and competitive. Sometimes have trouble wrapping my head around folks against it. What changed? My current theory is the housing shortage. Means that all community benefits flow towards rent-seeking real estate owners, everyone else just gets squeezed.
seydor 3y ago
> Cities from Canggu to Medellín Which are the other cities? These two cities seem to be really high in Pieter Levels' small kingdom. But most of the housing problems in europe at least are caused by golden visas and Airbnbs. Nomads are a tiny amount in comparison
- InvaderFizz 3y ago
  It seems weird to attribute the rise to an even smaller fraction of the population than digital nomads. In Portugal, Golden Visas accounted for a grand total of 11,535 households in a time span of October 2012 to December 2022. We have no stats on how many of those actually live in Portugal, but it should be noted that the Golden Visa holders only have to visit Portugal for one week per year and that counts towards the five years for citizenship. This was a major draw of that visa.
  - seydor 3y ago
    the visa has a corrossive effect on local markets though because it immediately makes them international. Houses are not being sold to local demand in expectation of a higher bidder. In any case, digital nomads are nomads, they move and the demand they generate is at best temporary Not to mention, nomads are cheap people, most of them are traveling to lower cost places where they can avoid taxes.
colordrops 3y ago
I spend too much time on Hacker News, so I read this first as "digital monads".
nologic01 3y ago
To the extend that digital nomads represent a real reverse brain-drain this would be such a blessing for the "ROW" that it could compensate for many real or imaginary side-effects. Of-course it could all degenerate like the mass tourism all-inclusives that are tailor-made to maximize environmental impact and minimize local economic benefit. In any case remains to be seen how much of the zero interest + pandemic induced behaviors and economics will survive as the world reverts to some sort of new (ab)normal.
codethief 3y ago
> Then, around 2017, the nomads started arriving — particularly those from the U.S., with their high-calorie diets, Doordash addictions, and extravagant tipping culture. Noel’s eyes lit up as he described them. “Los gringos,” he said, “y sus propinas” — “and their tips.” Ugghh. If there's one thing that I hated when I went back to Colombia it's this. Waiters will now often ask you point-blank when you're paying whether you want to include a service fee (which is often ~20%). I hate the US tipping culture with deep passion and it's been painful to see Colombia getting americanized in this way.
ragnarsson 3y ago
When you write an article like this better mention hard numbers. Like what percentage of the population of the city is digital nomads. My guess - less than 1%. Its easy to blame all the problems of your city on outsiders than take responsibility. P.S. I have never been a digital nomad.
- codethief 3y ago
  While I agree with the sentiment of your comment, you could also ask the question, What percentage of budget spent in restaurants & bars is due to nomads? Nomads are definitely not impacting every neighborhood of every city that's on Nomad List but their influence is certainly very visible in some neighborhoods.

For the urban development minded HNers out there, would it make sense to build a dedicated tech hub next to the city so that rent and cost of life is less sensitive to it or is gentrification unavoidable?

WJW 3y ago
How would you prevent non-techies living in the tech hub and vice versa? If the cost-of-living differential is larger than the cost of commuting back and forth you can bet that people will notice and act accordingly.
- charlie0 3y ago
  Balaji's Network State. If we can all get together in advance and co-ordinate, techies can likely set up their own communities.
  - WJW 3y ago
    > If we can all get together in advance and co-ordinate Haha yes. If you can get humans to do that, solving housing prices is one of the less interesting things you can do. World peace and solving child hunger are just some starter projects if you could finally solve the coordination problems of large groups. Techies can barely get together and decide which editor is the best, let alone decide on housing allocation or decide which types of schooling to allow in "their" neighborhood. Also an enforced tech-only community sounds super dystopian. Would you get kicked out of your house if you lose your job or change careers?
yardie 3y ago
Historically, most tech hubs have been outside the city. Commercial real estate was cheaper and a mature tech company would choose a family friendly location for its administration and engineers.
dangerwill 3y ago
This happens to be the exact situation in Seattle. Bellevue is technically a different city from Seattle, across the lake and is where most of the tech is. But its rather low density, because the people that got in before the tech boom don't want their property values to go down, so there is opposition to allowing dense (5-8 story apartment buildings) development. This low density means that the median house price in the area is like 1-2 million dollars and only tech employees can even afford to rent in the area. And because its so low density, (and because people like living in the city proper instead of a soulless series of office parks) there are a TON of tech employees that end up living in Seattle proper. Which then leads to gentrification in Cap Hill, the University district, Ballard, etc. It also leads to nearly LA style traffic crunches during commuting hours. In my opinion, you can't micro-target your way out of gentrification and sky high urban rents/prices. The only thing you can do is to take away the ability of local communities to oppose high density, build a lot of dense housing where you outpace the population growth and build out in basically every direction, and then build commuter rail lines to connect areas as you build out. Finally though, the city/state has to be the one to actually pay the builders for the housing to go up, not a developer which is where YIMBY experiments have failed. A developer that both contracts for the construction and then sells the finished product has all of the incentives to add artificial costs and delays when a municipality pays them to generate new housing on the market, because every additional building they add marginally lowers the value of every other building they have on the market.
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Developers are not a major source of delays, and benefit from getting their money back faster. We’re so far behind in housing waiting isn’t going to help prices significantly. Also many unnecessary costs, such as parking minimums are govt requirements.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

5350-uiop-1130 3y ago

hipsters gentrifying the world. doodling on their moleskin notebooks and browsing twitter on their apple macbooks. i blame tim ferris and that weinerchuck guy.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

systemtest 3y ago

On nearly every article about digital nomads I see people hunched over working on a laptop sitting on a non-adjustable chair, or working on their laptop on the couch. Natural light also seems to be lacking in the pictures from this article. I admire their lifestyle but having experience with RSI I will never work somewhere that doesn't have a height adjustable desk, ergonomic seat and at least a laptop stand to raise it to eye level. Preferably an external monitor. Assuming these people have an above average income for the region they are in, can't they afford to rent a co-op space somewhere that allows them to work in a healthy way with good posture?

vladvasiliu 3y ago
I think many people are used to poor working conditions and don't realize how bad it is. The company where I work has a token interest in ergonomics, so the desks are somewhat height adjustable (as in they're not strictly impossible to adjust, but it's not very practical – but since we don't do hot-desking it's fine enough). They provide office chairs which, while not great, offer the usual adjustments. If you have special needs, say you're too tall and the desk doesn't go high enough, they'll find ways to accommodate you. In my specific office ("IT"), we have somewhat better conditions, with displays that can actually be set at the correct level, etc. Still, many people will just spend their days hunched over their laptops ignoring the screen in front of them, sit in chairs set comically low or high, etc.
karaterobot 3y ago
A lot of digital nomads are in their 20s, which doesn't mean they shouldn't think about RSI, but that they are less likely to. Plenty of them are older than that, but even then, it's a group which self-selects for priorities other than ergonomics. At their future peril, I'm sure.
best_one_there 3y ago
It's just not a long term thing, for obvious reasons. People do it for a bit and then realise that the lifestyle is transient. So it doesn't go on long enough to cause serious problems. If you're still doing this at age 50 then you'll be a lonely old man.
3y ago

soared 3y ago

Interesting to compare medellin with some American cities that are having similar issues - small mountain towns in Colorado for example have a lot the same problems but at a much smaller scale. But I do find the gentrification causing each city to look the same sad, a neighborhood I visited in Mexico City looked identical the the richest shopping neighborhood in Denver.

CPLX 3y ago
I mean the world is pretty global these days. I spent a week in the San Pedro neighborhood of Monterrey and if yon blink twice you’ll think you’re in San Diego or Houston. Pretty sure there’s basically zero influence of digital nomads. It’s just kind of how things are.

brundolf 3y ago

This has happened on a smaller scale (maybe 2x the cost instead of 10x) here in Austin over the past ~10 years. Less nomads and more permanent moves of course, but it's distorted the local economy in the same way Housing can't keep up, local businesses have been replaced by same-y luxury ones, and longtime residents have had to move (or some just become homeless) because they can't afford it anymore. It's been a shame to see. Economic influx isn't always a good thing.

PragmaticPulp 3y ago

I have a hard time believing that a handful of digital nomads are responsible for rent increases and the other changes mentioned in the article. In the US, you can find people from nearly every state who believe that Californians are responsible for driving up home prices. This article feels like an international version of that same myth. As for digital nomads, my experience hiring or working with digital nomads has been universally negative for many years. All anecdotes, of course, but every one of them treated the job like a side project that they’d get to whenever they had some free time during a permanent vacation lifestyle. Some of them produced good work if you could micromanage them enough to make sure they were actually working, but the rest of the time felt like a game of chicken where they were constantly trying to push the limits of how little work they could do or how many meetings (rare but important at the time) they could miss or have their “camera broken” while they obviously tried to half listen in from some vacation spot. I’m sure there are good digital nomads out there, but I’ve been burned enough time that I prefer not to work with them unless it’s on a well-defined contract basis with clear project-based fees.

survirtual 3y ago
Agreed on the fact that digital nomads are not the prime contributors -- that can be largely attributed to corporate rental orgs, foreign investment safe havens, airbnb, and a small class of wealthy people using homes / land as wealth stores. As for your other point... It is easy to blame people as a class for their inability to meet your expectations, but I would encourage more self-reflection and not axing a whole group of workers because of some bad experiences. Here is an alternative view, because I think that it's important to acknowledge the evolving work-lifestyle balance that many individuals, especially digital nomads, are adopting today. Instead of prioritizing work over life, they choose to intertwine the two, enhancing their experiences and broadening their perspectives. In engaging with digital nomads, they have largely come to a better understanding about work and life. They are not letting work get in the way of their living. The work you’re offering becomes a part of their life, rather than the defining factor. They tend to prefer environments where rigid structures and unproductive meetings make way for flexibility, creativity, and efficient communication. Working with digital nomads requires a shift in traditional managerial approaches. Here are some recommendations: - Effective Communication: Ensure meetings are purposeful and time-efficient. Adopt asynchronous communication, which respects the nomad’s flexible schedule and promotes a healthy work-life balance. - Clear Goals: Communicate your vision, objectives, and deadlines clearly. This ensures expectations align and facilitates the digital nomad’s proactive role in the project. - Flexible Schedules: Embrace flexibility in terms of work schedules. Trust your team to meet the agreed-upon deadlines, focusing more on the quality of outcomes rather than hours logged. - Measurable Benchmarks: Establish clear, achievable benchmarks. This helps in maintaining a project’s momentum and provides a clear gauge of progress. - Clarity in Tasks: Digital nomads value their time, hence it’s crucial that tasks are defined precisely. Ambiguity may lead to delays and misunderstandings. - Realistic Expectations: Understand the work scope and timelines. Overestimating or underestimating these aspects can lead to frustration and tension in the professional relationship. In order to foster a healthier work dynamic, consider the following: - Trust-Based Relationships: Build trust by focusing on outcomes, not micromanaging. This fosters a sense of responsibility and ownership in the nomad. - Meaningful Work: Provide stimulating and meaningful work. This encourages engagement and can lead to higher productivity. - Experiential Opportunities: If possible, integrate opportunities for travel and new experiences into your work offerings. This aligns with the nomad’s lifestyle and enhances their work satisfaction. In essence, it’s not about confining individuals to boxes, but adapting to their style of work and making the most of the unique skills and perspectives they bring to the table. When work and life coexist harmoniously, the results can be rewarding for both the individual and the employer. If you can find a way to merge experience with work in an authentic way, you will have a better experience with these sorts.

galleywest200 3y ago

When I picture the phrase "tech nomad" I picture someone working from hotels and campsites, short term stays. It must mean something else to others, as I am unsure how camping while working would drive up rent prices.

lambic 3y ago
I expect most "tech nomads" use Airbnb and the like.

jakeinspace 3y ago

Why not just like, become a regular expat and learn the local language, become part of the culture, and spend your money at regular local businesses? I don’t see the appeal of spending time and money at little SV in Medellin.

quad_eye_oh 3y ago
The advantage as I see it of being a digital nomad is that one gets paid US salaries and gets to enjoy foreign costs of living. For example, software engineers in Europe make less than half of what SV software engineers make, and salaries in Asia (outside of Shenzhen) are even worse. For example, Korean SEs start at 30,000 to 40,000 USD, and get raises at the same percentages as non-SEs. (This is why Korean companies tend to hire superstar Western expats into VP rather than engineer positions.) So on economics alone, digital nomads can have their cake and eat it too. The nomadic half of the digital nomad comes as a result of national visa regulations: Outside of the EU, countries don't usually authorize long term visas unless you work full time for their domestic companies, so digital nomads enter on 90 day tourist visas and hide the fact that they are working for a company in their homeland. The whole practice is of course of questionable legality, and that is why they are nomadic: they can't stay for longer than 90 days. Then as a result they don't get to go very native. Can't really learn the language and culture in 90 days while working full time.
- Jcampuzano2 3y ago
  You may not be able to learn all of the culture, but if you're for example primarily living as a digital nomad in South America or other areas with a common language you for sure can pick up the language if you put in the effort. I've lived my fair share of 90 day stints all over South America, and I did make the effort to learn Spanish. I started off 3-4 years ago with 0 Spanish and now I am non-native fluent. I can communicate clearly and don't have issues with speaking to natives and even have local friends in many of the places I have gone (I have revisited plenty of them more than once). I may not catch all the colloquialism of course, but I do try to learn them and the culture wherever I go (what is the local slang, preferred word choices, etc). Unfortunately I do know a lot of Digital Nomads who unlike myself basically never learn the local language and stick to their bubble of other english speaking nomads. I think this is sort of a shame personally.

sbuccini 3y ago

This article is pretty off-base with its description of Medellín from my experience (lived in Laureles for ~1 year with some locals). Medellín has been a digital nomading hotspot since at least 2016. It is not “in the early stages of nomadification”. Laureles is not a middle-class neighborhood. Insinuating that the “gringo price” for an apartment is what a local (or even a gringo who can speak Spanish) will pay is dishonest. And while I love paisas, it’s disingenuous to complain about the rich gringos when much of the current middle-class Colombian lifestyle is powered by Venezuelan migrant workers.

basisword 3y ago
>> Medellín has been a digital nomading hotspot since at least 2016. Most people couldn’t even dream of working remotely in 2016. Now, a huge number of people have it as a viable option. So although it may have been popular with nomads in 2016 the number of nomads has grown exponentially since then.
codethief 3y ago
> Laureles is not a middle-class neighborhood. How would you classify it? I mean it's definitely not upscale as the article claims in the very beginning but it surely is one of the more decent neighborhoods. I guess it depends on one's definition of "middle class". > Insinuating that the “gringo price” for an apartment is what a local (or even a gringo who can speak Spanish) will pay is dishonest. Agreed, there is a gap in the causality chain here. Lots of places in the world have "special" prices for visitors but it doesn't automatically mean those prices will impact inflation from the point of view of locals. Getting back to the article, > A one-bedroom in Medellín now rents for the “gringo price” of about $1,300 a month, in a country where the median monthly income is $300. they are really comparing apples and oranges here. A gringo tourist might pay $1,300 for a fancy apartment in a high rise in one of those upscale gated communities in Poblado. But 1) this price still includes a gringo surcharge, 2) most locals (i.e. the ones with the $300 income) don't live in such apartments, and 3) the few locals that do live in such apartments have a considerably higher monthly income.

paxys 3y ago

I have been to a lot of the cities mentioned in the article, and one thing I found is that most of these "digital nomads" are better classified as long-term tourists. They don't have real businesses, aren't doing any real work and aren't making any money. Their day mostly comprises "working" for a couple hours at some coffee shop and spending the rest of the day/night socializing and partying. When reality strikes and their savings start to deplete (and/or their company's HR department calls them back to the US) they will promptly pack up and leave.

mellosouls 3y ago

Seems like pretty standard gentrification with the "digital nomad" label to give it a cool new spin, and an easy villain to understand and dislike. "Oblivious middle class hipster types" is the likely caricature - but they are probably quite varied and less clichéd in reality; it presumably takes an element of individuality, imagination and courage to venture out like that, even where the privilege is also there.

karaterobot 3y ago

I need a clear argument for why having a comparatively small number of comparatively rich people come to your small town is actually something people should be deeply worried about. I've heard a lot of chicken little type catastrophizing without a lot of hard, unambiguous data to back it up. I get that digital nomads might be annoying and boorish: people with 100x as much money as you, who don't speak your language and don't know anything about your culture, and live in a little bubble of luxury right next to where you are just getting by. That would make me mad. I could see rolling your eyes hard. But, are these arguments about them destroying towns and neighborhoods coming from a place of fact, or a place of emotion?

mixmastamyk 3y ago
I remember back when attracting money spenders to the area was considered great for business and jobs, and competitive. Sometimes have trouble wrapping my head around folks against it. What changed? My current theory is the housing shortage. Means that all community benefits flow towards rent-seeking real estate owners, everyone else just gets squeezed.

seydor 3y ago

> Cities from Canggu to Medellín Which are the other cities? These two cities seem to be really high in Pieter Levels' small kingdom. But most of the housing problems in europe at least are caused by golden visas and Airbnbs. Nomads are a tiny amount in comparison

InvaderFizz 3y ago
It seems weird to attribute the rise to an even smaller fraction of the population than digital nomads. In Portugal, Golden Visas accounted for a grand total of 11,535 households in a time span of October 2012 to December 2022. We have no stats on how many of those actually live in Portugal, but it should be noted that the Golden Visa holders only have to visit Portugal for one week per year and that counts towards the five years for citizenship. This was a major draw of that visa.
- seydor 3y ago
  the visa has a corrossive effect on local markets though because it immediately makes them international. Houses are not being sold to local demand in expectation of a higher bidder. In any case, digital nomads are nomads, they move and the demand they generate is at best temporary Not to mention, nomads are cheap people, most of them are traveling to lower cost places where they can avoid taxes.

colordrops 3y ago

I spend too much time on Hacker News, so I read this first as "digital monads".

nologic01 3y ago

To the extend that digital nomads represent a real reverse brain-drain this would be such a blessing for the "ROW" that it could compensate for many real or imaginary side-effects. Of-course it could all degenerate like the mass tourism all-inclusives that are tailor-made to maximize environmental impact and minimize local economic benefit. In any case remains to be seen how much of the zero interest + pandemic induced behaviors and economics will survive as the world reverts to some sort of new (ab)normal.

codethief 3y ago

> Then, around 2017, the nomads started arriving — particularly those from the U.S., with their high-calorie diets, Doordash addictions, and extravagant tipping culture. Noel’s eyes lit up as he described them. “Los gringos,” he said, “y sus propinas” — “and their tips.” Ugghh. If there's one thing that I hated when I went back to Colombia it's this. Waiters will now often ask you point-blank when you're paying whether you want to include a service fee (which is often ~20%). I hate the US tipping culture with deep passion and it's been painful to see Colombia getting americanized in this way.

ragnarsson 3y ago

When you write an article like this better mention hard numbers. Like what percentage of the population of the city is digital nomads. My guess - less than 1%. Its easy to blame all the problems of your city on outsiders than take responsibility. P.S. I have never been a digital nomad.

codethief 3y ago
While I agree with the sentiment of your comment, you could also ask the question, What percentage of budget spent in restaurants & bars is due to nomads? Nomads are definitely not impacting every neighborhood of every city that's on Nomad List but their influence is certainly very visible in some neighborhoods.