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It's 2023. You shouldn't have to struggle as much as you have to just for basic necessities like shelter, food, medicine, education and utilities. This is true

It's 2023. You shouldn't have to struggle as much as you have to just for basic necessities like shelter, food, medicine, education and utilities. This is true of most places in the world. It is sad. Because it doesn't have to be this way. There isn't a lack of resources. There's unequal and unjust distribution of resources.

debacle 3y ago
> There isn't a lack of resources. There is absolutely a lack of resources when it comes to medical care. There aren't enough nurses, doctors, mental health professionals, specialized medical equipment, or in some instances even blood, to go around right now. This "post scarcity" mentality isn't based on reality.
- jquery 3y ago
  There's enough to go around in every country approaching a significant fraction of America's average per capita GDP. No structural reason America couldn't make it work either.
  - Georgelemental 3y ago
    Not really no, those countries generally ration with very long wait times instead of by price. (Not defending the US system, which is 100% captured by special interest sleazebags, and in need of total regulatory overhaul. But there is no magic bullet to fix all problems here)
    - jquery 3y ago
      They generally have better health outcomes at the population level, so functionally speaking I think that's "plenty to go around" in the most useful sense of the term.
    - sharemywin 3y ago
      especially since the wait times are in the US now too.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- UnpossibleJim 3y ago
  It's a matter of priorities. If we decide these things are important as a nation they don't have to be scarce. We make the best war machines on the planet and spend a lot of money on them. That is more of a priority than the good health of our nation.
  - WhatWorkingOn 3y ago
    A war machine can be built once and maintained for a long time. Medical care is a personal and time consuming process with multiple parties and tests that need to be coordinated across. All of this is expensive because for every person being given that time of day, there's someone else that needs it. There aren't enough hours in the day and smart people in the country to scale up healthcare. Contrary to what we would like to believe, there is a scarcity of intelligent people willing to devote their entire lives to the study of medicine across specialties. If you cannot afford it, the US healthcare is terrible. If you have the means to afford it, the US healthcare system is one of if not the best in the world.
    - hedora 3y ago
      > If you have the means to afford it, the US healthcare system is one of if not the best in the world. This is untrue according to all metrics I have seen (such as life expectancy). Do you have any evidence to back this statement up?
      - shuckles 3y ago
        The drivers of poor US life expectancy is mostly guns and cars. Cars are the #1 killer of Americans between 5 and 45 (approximately). That doesn’t have much to do with the medical system.
        andsoitis 3y ago
        Leading causes of death in the US: https://www.healthline.com/health/leading-causes-of-death https://www.healthline.com/health/leading-causes-of-death 10 of the leading 12 causes of death are diseases, with the first non-disease cause coming in at #4.
- antisthenes 3y ago
  Bringing up "post scarcity" here is a straw man. The US medical system has been systematically optimized for extracting the maximum possible amount of money from every patient, part of which is artificially restricting available supply of medical care (although things are slightly getting better in that regard with practicing nurses and PAs) The other thing it was optimized for was hiding this from the patients. And only now, in 2023 are we beginning to see the horrible extent of this, because of price transparency rules.
carabiner 3y ago
It's lack of will.
jojobas 3y ago
So, someone should be working to provide you with medicine, education and utilities and paid for that by... someone else?
- throwaway173738 3y ago
  Are you trying to argue that beneficiaries of tax-funded systems like roads, medicare, unemployment, etc don’t pay taxes? Because everyone in the US pays some kind of tax to fund something unless they’re not an adult yet. I’ve worked with several very competent people who were on unemployment at some point but who also paid into unemployment for most of their lives.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    Sure, everyone pays taxes. I'm pretty well set and I'm still not sure I'll ever pay enough in taxes to cover one of those famous US hospital bills. Then again, it should be matter of at least a majority agreement that things like that should be paid from taxes, and it's obvious that in the US the agreement is not there.
- kashunstva 3y ago
  > someone should be working to provide you with medicine, education… Are you seriously arguing against taxpayer-funded education? As broken as U.S. public education is, managed as it is by hyper-local, ideologically-motivated officials, withdrawing the opportunity to raise one’s lot in life through community-funded education would be pretty dystopian. Or perhaps you were referring to post-secondary education only?
seer 3y ago
The most weird thing for me is that there _are_ places in the world where that’s not the case, places where shelter / food / medicine / security are if not solved, at least close to stress free, and why others are not studying them intensely to try to replicate it is just bonkers. Not invented here syndrome is so strong when it comes to politics…
- notRobot 3y ago
  Yeah, I agree! I think it really shows what the priorities of the people in power are. It's not about making the world a better place for the masses, since clearly they're not doing that. It's about maintaining power structures and a status quo that concentrates wealth (and thus power, and thus more wealth, and thus more power) in the hands of a few.
faeriechangling 3y ago
You can expand medical expenses practically boundlessly. The longer you make people live the more they cost.
- bombcar 3y ago
  It doesn't even have to be "end of life" care (the last ten years, say). You just start doing more and more procedures "just in case". MRIs and CAT scans for everything! It'll probably catch something.
flagrant_taco 3y ago
> shelter, food, medicine, education and utilities Many of these really aren't resources though. Lumber, iron, and oil are resources but shelter, medicine, and utilities are all products made with resources. Education isn't even either, it's a service. Whether they are all necessities today is up to opinion, and I expect the are good arguments to be made that they are all necessary, but they definitely aren't resources.

debacle 3y ago

> There isn't a lack of resources. There is absolutely a lack of resources when it comes to medical care. There aren't enough nurses, doctors, mental health professionals, specialized medical equipment, or in some instances even blood, to go around right now. This "post scarcity" mentality isn't based on reality.

jquery 3y ago
There's enough to go around in every country approaching a significant fraction of America's average per capita GDP. No structural reason America couldn't make it work either.
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  Not really no, those countries generally ration with very long wait times instead of by price. (Not defending the US system, which is 100% captured by special interest sleazebags, and in need of total regulatory overhaul. But there is no magic bullet to fix all problems here)
  - jquery 3y ago
    They generally have better health outcomes at the population level, so functionally speaking I think that's "plenty to go around" in the most useful sense of the term.
  - sharemywin 3y ago
    especially since the wait times are in the US now too.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
UnpossibleJim 3y ago
It's a matter of priorities. If we decide these things are important as a nation they don't have to be scarce. We make the best war machines on the planet and spend a lot of money on them. That is more of a priority than the good health of our nation.
- WhatWorkingOn 3y ago
  A war machine can be built once and maintained for a long time. Medical care is a personal and time consuming process with multiple parties and tests that need to be coordinated across. All of this is expensive because for every person being given that time of day, there's someone else that needs it. There aren't enough hours in the day and smart people in the country to scale up healthcare. Contrary to what we would like to believe, there is a scarcity of intelligent people willing to devote their entire lives to the study of medicine across specialties. If you cannot afford it, the US healthcare is terrible. If you have the means to afford it, the US healthcare system is one of if not the best in the world.
  - hedora 3y ago
    > If you have the means to afford it, the US healthcare system is one of if not the best in the world. This is untrue according to all metrics I have seen (such as life expectancy). Do you have any evidence to back this statement up?
    - shuckles 3y ago
      The drivers of poor US life expectancy is mostly guns and cars. Cars are the #1 killer of Americans between 5 and 45 (approximately). That doesn’t have much to do with the medical system.
      - andsoitis 3y ago
        Leading causes of death in the US: https://www.healthline.com/health/leading-causes-of-death https://www.healthline.com/health/leading-causes-of-death 10 of the leading 12 causes of death are diseases, with the first non-disease cause coming in at #4.
antisthenes 3y ago
Bringing up "post scarcity" here is a straw man. The US medical system has been systematically optimized for extracting the maximum possible amount of money from every patient, part of which is artificially restricting available supply of medical care (although things are slightly getting better in that regard with practicing nurses and PAs) The other thing it was optimized for was hiding this from the patients. And only now, in 2023 are we beginning to see the horrible extent of this, because of price transparency rules.

carabiner 3y ago

It's lack of will.

jojobas 3y ago

So, someone should be working to provide you with medicine, education and utilities and paid for that by... someone else?

throwaway173738 3y ago
Are you trying to argue that beneficiaries of tax-funded systems like roads, medicare, unemployment, etc don’t pay taxes? Because everyone in the US pays some kind of tax to fund something unless they’re not an adult yet. I’ve worked with several very competent people who were on unemployment at some point but who also paid into unemployment for most of their lives.
- jojobas 3y ago
  Sure, everyone pays taxes. I'm pretty well set and I'm still not sure I'll ever pay enough in taxes to cover one of those famous US hospital bills. Then again, it should be matter of at least a majority agreement that things like that should be paid from taxes, and it's obvious that in the US the agreement is not there.
kashunstva 3y ago
> someone should be working to provide you with medicine, education… Are you seriously arguing against taxpayer-funded education? As broken as U.S. public education is, managed as it is by hyper-local, ideologically-motivated officials, withdrawing the opportunity to raise one’s lot in life through community-funded education would be pretty dystopian. Or perhaps you were referring to post-secondary education only?

seer 3y ago

The most weird thing for me is that there _are_ places in the world where that’s not the case, places where shelter / food / medicine / security are if not solved, at least close to stress free, and why others are not studying them intensely to try to replicate it is just bonkers. Not invented here syndrome is so strong when it comes to politics…

notRobot 3y ago
Yeah, I agree! I think it really shows what the priorities of the people in power are. It's not about making the world a better place for the masses, since clearly they're not doing that. It's about maintaining power structures and a status quo that concentrates wealth (and thus power, and thus more wealth, and thus more power) in the hands of a few.

faeriechangling 3y ago

You can expand medical expenses practically boundlessly. The longer you make people live the more they cost.

bombcar 3y ago
It doesn't even have to be "end of life" care (the last ten years, say). You just start doing more and more procedures "just in case". MRIs and CAT scans for everything! It'll probably catch something.

flagrant_taco 3y ago

> shelter, food, medicine, education and utilities Many of these really aren't resources though. Lumber, iron, and oil are resources but shelter, medicine, and utilities are all products made with resources. Education isn't even either, it's a service. Whether they are all necessities today is up to opinion, and I expect the are good arguments to be made that they are all necessary, but they definitely aren't resources.