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I think we don't notice our expectations have gone up, and we don't notice that we remember the hits and then expect all hits. We didn't notice the misses at f
by furyofantares 3y ago
I think we don't notice our expectations have gone up, and we don't notice that we remember the hits and then expect all hits.
We didn't notice the misses at first, because it's what we expected to begin with, and we very strongly noticed the hits because they were unexpected. Now we notice the misses and expect the hits.
- huevosabio 3y agoI think this is the right way to look at it: we are very quick at updating expectations. The first flight is magic, the nth one is a chore.
- williamcotton 3y agoWhenever I’m flying over an ocean on a clear moonlit night it still very much feels like magic!
- myshpa 3y agoAnd now it's even gonna smell like bacon ... The fat of dead pigs, cattle and chickens is being used to make greener jet fuel https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-65727664 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-65727664
- pmontra 3y agoYou're generally right but one of my nth ones was Brisbane to Cairns over the reef during the day. I'd fly it again and again.
- huevosabio 3y agoOne of my favorites is landing in Rio, the landscape is spectacular and then you get Christ the Redeemer as the cherry on top of the cake.
- camgunz 3y agoI feel this for a lot of things, but I love flying and I've probably done it dozens of times. I know people who travel for business and that sounds like it'd kill the magic, but I still love it. Earbuds + laptop! Isolated for hours! They bring food _to you_! You're miles up in the sky!
- doctoboggan 3y agoI definitely agree with this take. I had similar feelings to everyone in yesterday's thread complaining about the models failures but I agree that its just our shifting expectations and not a model update.
- jonas21 3y agoYeah, it's kind of the same way people have been saying Google search has been going downhill for years, but compressed into a much shorter time frame.
- throwuwu 3y agoIt has and so has the YouTube algo. You can try the verbatim setting with search to see that there has been some monkeying going on but even that doesn’t fix everything. Maybe that’s due to spam sites but it just seems less effective.
- dumpsterlid 3y ago[dead]
- subsubzero 3y agoIt has and its gone downhill alot in the past 4-5 years. This is due to the need to keep an ever increasing stream of income flowing to google with a mostly static number of users and "fixing" this issue by piling more ads into users search results.
- awegio 3y agoThen just use an Ad Blocker. The actual problem is SEO spam though.
- throw1623 3y agoThis. I've been using it daily and nothing has changed. It's still as great as day 1. The audience of HN is, as Taleb would say, intellectuals yet idiots. They have trouble measuring change and are prone to hyperboles. Some still try to minimize the impact ChatGPT will have, while focusing on bullshit like 'hallucinations', or nitpicking about the quality of the code and so on. Can't see the forest from the trees. If you're looking for intelligent discussion, look elsewhere.
- kkdkdod 3y agoGenerative AI is cool, but ChatGPT is a clear incremental improvement over previous GPT releases, and is not the advent of AGI like many of its proponents here and elsewhere are saying. Hallucinations are an important indicator that the language model doesn't have anything like "understanding" and is thus no closer to AGI than earlier models.
- skepticATX 3y agoGenuinely asking: have our expectations gone up, or have we started thinking about it in a more critical and realistic way after the initial glean has worn off?
- tines 3y ago> glean I think the word you're thinking of is the noun "gleam" which means a kind of lustrous shine, rather than the verb "glean" which means to harvest the remainder of something or to collect in small parts.
- coffeebeqn 3y agoIt’s magic! But it’s also wrong a lot. These days if I ask anything important I’ll also have to Google the answer and I’ll also ask chatgpt if it’s sure about some of the details
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- throwuwu 3y agoThe refusals are new. I’ve gotten a few myself recently. I’ve never seen them before. They’re not moderation related and they always include some text about the task being too complex.
- ribosometronome 3y agoAre there any 'complex tasks' you've had refused you can share?
- insanitybit 3y agoThat sounds like it could just be a cap applied to free users. That's hardly the same as a new model.
- throwuwu 3y agoI subscribe and I use GPT-4
- sundarurfriend 3y agoDisappointing that GPT seems to be getting more Bard-ish, rather than the other way around. Bard would refuse the request for the simplest of things ('what is kanban' got a "As an LLM I cannot..." response on its first day), which was one of the main things that gave a bad first impression of it. Now, perhaps in an inevitable game of corporate cover-your-ass, OpAI also seems to be going the same way.
- jstarfish 3y agoNo, this is peak corporate gaslighting, OpenAI being the paragon of integrity and all. Nobody should trust a goddamn thing that comes out of their mouths-- or their product. It's no coincidence the flat-fee service is visibly crippled, while per-request API users are not reporting any difference. (edited) Ignoring everyone here, look at the other "hacker" groups-- like the jailbreaking community. They have a lot to say about recent changes that coincide with their hacks not working. All of a sudden, with OpenAI supposedly changing nothing, technical bypasses just stopped working. OpenAI changed nothing, so this must be deus ex machina. I'm not even jailbreaking it but the results I get for simple code requests through the web UI have become unusable garbage. It puts less effort into responses than an unpaid-and-overworked intern. Others here report the same. The current "iteration" seems hellbent on terminating conversations as quickly as possible once they stray from the explicit scope of the original topic and is almost as hostile to fixing its own errors as it is to endorsing eugenics, whereas in the beginning it would humor every idle thought I threw at it in long conversations. You can literally see this reflected in the logs they forced retention of. It's acting like a customer support rep desperately trying to end a call before it exceeds a call-time quota. This particular current workflow seems like it lends itself to better organization of training data-- conversations are what the title says they're about. It also seems like it lends itself to anti-jailbreaking because pretexting it with irrelevant information forces a change of scope-- and a summary termination. But OpenAI says they changed nothing, so rather than one guy lying without consequence, a community of professionals using and abusing the tool must all be victims of rhetorical fallacy? Nobody's qualified to reverse-engineer corporate bullshit anymore without being infantilized... (Liars running a black box-- what could possibly go wrong? We need regulation!)
- Centigonal 3y ago> It's no coincidence the "free" service is visibly crippled, while paid API users are not reporting any difference. I thought GPT-4 wasn't available to free users? Keep in mind the tweet is specifically about the OpenAI API - They might be updating ChatGPT without telling anyone (although they have release notes)
- jstarfish 3y ago
- irthomasthomas 3y agoHe specifically singles out the API and never answers if chatgpt is same. Most people are probably using the chatgpt interface, which seems to have more alignment training.
- furyofantares 3y agoHe specifically says the models are changing all the time in ChatGPT https://twitter.com/OfficialLoganK/status/1664476604658069511?s=20 https://twitter.com/OfficialLoganK/status/166447660465806951...
- ren_engineer 3y agoI think it's worth noting the response explicitly said the paid API model hasn't been changed, so ChatGPT could have been changed through many different ways outside the core model
- gwern 3y agoThis should always be the first explanation when you're speculating about something involving ChatGPT or Bing Sydney, if you aren't directly using the API and comparing temp=0 responses to identical canned prompts. There are lots of smaller models & filters and prompts involved, all of which are much easier to update than the behemoth underneath, and which do get updated frequently without notice. People jump the gun constantly on assuming it's the biggest model which changed.
- robbintt 3y agoWhat is your hypothesis for the layout/diagram of models feeding the gpt-4 output for chatgpt/gpt-4 vs api/gpt-4?
- gwern 3y agoComponents which are likely there and which could be affecting quality: the invisible-to-the-user 'system prompt' (probably with few-shot examples), retrieval from history (not necessarily exclusively your own, as a way to augment few-shot), cascaded models with a very cheap 'turbo' model to try to answer first, possibly regular finetunes of the main chat model (note that OP only specifies the API model hasn't changed, but the live chat models seem to change frequently), and a post-generation filtering model trying to reject offensive outputs. We know MS Bing Sydney is doing at least 3 of those (prompt, cascade with Megatron, and finetuned rejection classifier for post-output filtering) on top of its GPT-4-finetune, so it's not a stretch to figure that OA is doing similar things.
- TeMPOraL 3y agoWhich one? The response wasn't clear on this - they could've meant gpt-4, or gpt-4-0314, or both. gpt-4-0314 is the "pinned" model that is not supposed to change, so I can believe it didn't change. gpt-4 is supposed to receive updates, so... are they saying it didn't? Note that API users using Bring Your Own Key tools/chat frontends probably default to gpt-4, and not the pinned gpt-4-0314.
- reaperman 3y agoI don’t think it helps that the bottom of the ChatGPT-4 dialog window says: ChatGPT may produce inaccurate information about people, places, or facts. ChatGPT May 24 Version I was shocked that an employee was claiming they haven’t changed the model since March, given that this date changes every few weeks. But I finally read the link it goes to, and apparently this date is just the frontend version. Which is a really weird thing to include as part of a disclaimer. I wonder how many other people think this is the most recent model release date.
- svnt 3y agoThe dev refers to the model used in API access.
- ruszki 3y agoThree is no ChatGPT-4, just ChatGPT and GPT-4. The tweet is about GPT-4.
- reaperman 3y ago> just ChatGPT There's obviously a ChatGPT-3.5 and a ChatGPT-4. Actually 4 different ChatGPT-4's: Normal, Browsing, Plugins, Code Interpreter.
- cyanydeez 3y agoPeople just overvaluing the quantity.
- ChatGTP 3y agoI'd frame it another way, many, many people fell for the hype, immediately.
- ke88y 3y agoYeah. The recent GPT hype reminds me a lot of a Reply All episode on old school text generation using Markov Chains. I think it was haikus. Sooo much ascribed meaning, and equally ignoring the "misses".
- IIAOPSW 3y agoActually the opposite. The quality of that other big hit (Dalle) has gone noticeably down IMO. I feel like they have over trained it, trying to compensate for the initial shortcomings, and in the process of trying to solve those by throwing more and more data at it the machine has forgotten how to deviate from sterile stock photos and do anything interpretive. For example, I asked it for "Mother of Exiles" (a reference to the inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty), in return it showed 4 generic stock photos of female characters, sometimes with a visual prop to vaguely insinuate motherhood but certainly nothing inspiring and certainly nothing to do with exiles. Compare this to the early days, when people were throwing natural language statements at it like "power bottom dad for the people" and it was spitting back results that felt like it truly understood what any of those words meant.
- avereveard 3y agoThis is not about misses, this is about agents using the API breaking down because gpt4 is no longer able to follow the response structure.