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I wrote up a long comment that got scrapped by my focus filter but I feel the need to voice strong agreement here. I have a recent Mazda which in almost all way

by ics 3y ago

I wrote up a long comment that got scrapped by my focus filter but I feel the need to voice strong agreement here. I have a recent Mazda which in almost all ways is my perfect car except for the newfangled safety features all new cars seem to have. Lane correction and emergency braking, even set to the lowest sensitivity levels, are bad to outright dangerous in city (and some country) driving. In NYC it's common to have multiple road lines crossing during construction which by default has lead my car to try steering into cyclists or barriers. It can't read the lane because the lane is not properly marked but that's typical. So I disabled it. Emergency braking is a bit harder for me to understand when it kicks in but I've done whatever I can to keep it off. Twice it caused a hard brake in the middle of traffic with my newborn in the back and almost got me rear-ended. Another time it detected another car ahead of me but technically in the next lane and warned that it was about to hard brake in the rain on the Williamsburg Bridge inner roadway which is... tight to say the least. If there's a future where these features are rigorously tested for worst case scenarios in different driving environments and somehow universally implemented across manufacturers... maybe.

Dylan16807 3y ago
> I wrote up a long comment that got scrapped by my focus filter I've been making productive use of the "textarea cache" extension lately. Sites and browsers lose text a lot more often than they should.
jacquesm 3y ago
That sounds like there is a lot of commonality between the two cases that I had and the ones that you have experienced. My car was a Mercedes Benz C class July 2014 issue. The AEB relies on a lot of gear supplied by Bosch (I dug into it a bit to see if it could be disabled without surgery but that wasn't possible). Maybe Mazda has the same unit? (it sits behind the front license plate and there is a camera behind the windscreen).
- ics 3y ago
  I'm not sure of the exact sensor. There is a little more info on it here for example (https://www.mazdausa.com/static/manuals/2021/mazda3/contents/05200101.html https://www.mazdausa.com/static/manuals/2021/mazda3/contents...) but I can confirm the sensor placement is the same behind the windscreen, the lower one I think is by the badge. I wish they'd just made dashcam a standard feature instead and forget about trying to throw me through the windshield for shits and giggles.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Ok, looks like a different sensor then, the MB unit uses Radar and optical.
nradov 3y ago
If you haven't already done so, please file a formal safety defect complaint with the NHTSA with details on that bridge incident. Once the regulators receive enough similar complaints they will open a formal investigation and potentially issue a recall. https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Good one, not in the USA but I will do this here in NL with the equivalent service. It never crossed my mind so thank you very much for this option.
  - Glawen 3y ago
    is there a similar service in NL or Europe? NTSHA is really an institution that's lacking in the EU, the recalls and safety bulletin are a feature I would like to see in the EU.
- ics 3y ago
  Good idea, thanks for the link!
- greesil 3y ago
  Bug reports filed through NHTSA?
xattt 3y ago
I had AEB trigger going through a mini-roundabout in rainy weather as another vehicle was yielding to me. I also had an AEB alert when fresh snow was flying off the front grill just after I started driving for the day. This is on a 2021 Sorento.
pmarreck 3y ago
The B in AEB stands for “braking”, not “steering”, so I don’t understand what system you’re referring to that would steer into cyclist traffic
- toast0 3y ago
  Lane keeping assistance, from the context.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    Lane-keeping should only be active with cruise control active. You shouldn't be using it in city traffic, ever.
    - ISL 3y ago
      Automatic lane-keeping assist is generally turned on at all times with modern cars.
      - midoridensha 3y ago
        Interesting; when did this happen? From my experience, ~2017-era cars had it only as part of cruise control. Keeping it on at all times sounds like a terrible idea for cars used in the US, because it's a developing nation with extremely poor road quality. In developed nations, it's probably OK because you can count on the road markings being good almost everywhere, but not in the US.
        imp0cat 3y ago
        I think it only turns on above certain speed and yes, it can get easily confused by various road imperfections. But yeah, you need to make sure there is a physical button on the steering wheel or somehere on the dashboard to easily enable/disable it. Otherwise it can be annoying.
      - brandon272 3y ago
hnick 3y ago
My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, who for various reasons seems to have a bad reputation in North America but a good one in Australia). For the lane keep assist I feel a nudge but it's extremely easy to overcome just through a normal grip on the wheel - if I don't budge it won't move. It's been an issue near construction sometimes but also some wider merges where 2 lanes become one (the markings in Canberra seem to confuse it, but not Sydney) so it does depends a lot on road conditions, but as I say it's annoying at most and I wouldn't call it dangerous in my car and it helps more than it hinders. For AEB, the same system is used in the adaptive cruise control and it's been near perfect. One funny thing was that it just alarmed and fully died in outback Victoria - apparently it is coded to do this as a fail-safe if it hasn't detected a car for a long time due to the system potentially not working. The service centre employee said Hyundai are working on a patch to extend the timeout since it's a little low for country Australian roads (approximately an hour at the moment I think).
- kovacs_ 3y ago
  Hyundai had a not so great reputation in the early 2000s in the US. In recent years however this opinion seems to have shifted. Been driving an Ioniq 5 2023 for a couple months now with no phantom/emergency braking issues. I'm not in love with the performance of the lane keep without being on an HDA2 marked highway. I have to fight it just enough for it to not be useful on certain well marked backroads. Considering tossing in a Comma 3 to give no-hands driver assist a shot.
  - eyphka 3y ago
    Hyundai has been having engine failures, would not recommend as experienced spontaneous engine failure on a less than year old car. Check consumer reports or source below. “In 2020, NHTSA announced civil penalties for the companies—totaling $210 million—for not recalling vehicles in a timely manner. In 2021, a whistleblower who provided NHTSA with information that led to those penalties was awarded $24 million, the agency’s first-ever whistleblower award.” https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why-so-many-hyundai-kia-vehicles-get-recalled-for-fire-risk-a1169940635/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why...
grepfru_it 3y ago
>focus filter I’m more interested in this
- ics 3y ago
  Just https://heyfocus.com https://heyfocus.com which I must have installed through Setapp, as I don't remember paying for it. It has a scripting capability so in theory I might be able to do something to prevent it from triggering when I'm active in a form.
dvdbloc 3y ago
I also had a very similar experience with lane assist trying to send me straight into a cyclist. Had a newish rental car with lane assist for a day and didn’t even really notice I had lane assist until driving out on a country road in California. Cyclist was up ahead staying nicely in the right of the lane and no one was around so I was giving him plenty of room driving to the left until the lane assist kicked in and pulled me rapidly almost straight into him. If I didn’t have a firm grip of the steering wheel it would have been much more dangerous. I feel bad for him as he was probably fearing for his life and thinking I was a horrible driver…
erhaetherth 3y ago
> somehow universally implemented across manufacturers... maybe. They'd need to be implemented and then turned off for 15 years until 99% of the old cars are off the road and then flipped on simultaneously for every car. If a car suddenly breaks then the car behind it better be able to suddenly break too.
- tssva 3y ago
  The need to suddenly brake is not a new phenomenon. Cars without AEB can achieve it the old fashioned way. The driver applying the brake.
  - bzzzt 3y ago
    The AEB in my 2015 Volvo applies some extra force to the brakes which exceeds just pushing the brake pedal all the way down. Also, according to Volvo statistics it seems that half of all drivers who hit another vehicle from behind do not brake at all prior to the collision. So no, they won't achieve it the old fashioned way all the time.
mns 3y ago
Oh, the Mazda lane assist and lateral collision thing from the side mirrors I found very weird. We rented a MX-30 at one point and were driving on the highway, used the signal to change lanes and mysteriously it decided that there is a car on the other lane (there wasn't) - warning in side mirror, and nudged the wheel and refused to change lanes. It was so weird having the car not allow me to do something because of a "ghost" it saw. Even with our current car, which is not a Mazda, had 2 small incidents in 3 years. One at night while it was raining the front collision warning started beeping, no break though (nothing in front, except rain) and then again, which was a bit dangerous, on the highway on a sunny day, no one in front, somehow I suspect the camera system thought the shadow of an overpass was a car maybe and decided to break all of the sudden (with ACC on), luckily there was no one behind us, but still, was a bit scarry.

by ics 3y ago

Dylan16807 3y ago

> I wrote up a long comment that got scrapped by my focus filter I've been making productive use of the "textarea cache" extension lately. Sites and browsers lose text a lot more often than they should.

jacquesm 3y ago

That sounds like there is a lot of commonality between the two cases that I had and the ones that you have experienced. My car was a Mercedes Benz C class July 2014 issue. The AEB relies on a lot of gear supplied by Bosch (I dug into it a bit to see if it could be disabled without surgery but that wasn't possible). Maybe Mazda has the same unit? (it sits behind the front license plate and there is a camera behind the windscreen).

ics 3y ago
I'm not sure of the exact sensor. There is a little more info on it here for example (https://www.mazdausa.com/static/manuals/2021/mazda3/contents/05200101.html https://www.mazdausa.com/static/manuals/2021/mazda3/contents...) but I can confirm the sensor placement is the same behind the windscreen, the lower one I think is by the badge. I wish they'd just made dashcam a standard feature instead and forget about trying to throw me through the windshield for shits and giggles.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Ok, looks like a different sensor then, the MB unit uses Radar and optical.

nradov 3y ago

If you haven't already done so, please file a formal safety defect complaint with the NHTSA with details on that bridge incident. Once the regulators receive enough similar complaints they will open a formal investigation and potentially issue a recall. https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem

jacquesm 3y ago
Good one, not in the USA but I will do this here in NL with the equivalent service. It never crossed my mind so thank you very much for this option.
- Glawen 3y ago
  is there a similar service in NL or Europe? NTSHA is really an institution that's lacking in the EU, the recalls and safety bulletin are a feature I would like to see in the EU.
ics 3y ago
Good idea, thanks for the link!
greesil 3y ago
Bug reports filed through NHTSA?

xattt 3y ago

I had AEB trigger going through a mini-roundabout in rainy weather as another vehicle was yielding to me. I also had an AEB alert when fresh snow was flying off the front grill just after I started driving for the day. This is on a 2021 Sorento.

pmarreck 3y ago

The B in AEB stands for “braking”, not “steering”, so I don’t understand what system you’re referring to that would steer into cyclist traffic

toast0 3y ago
Lane keeping assistance, from the context.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  Lane-keeping should only be active with cruise control active. You shouldn't be using it in city traffic, ever.
  - ISL 3y ago
    Automatic lane-keeping assist is generally turned on at all times with modern cars.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      Interesting; when did this happen? From my experience, ~2017-era cars had it only as part of cruise control. Keeping it on at all times sounds like a terrible idea for cars used in the US, because it's a developing nation with extremely poor road quality. In developed nations, it's probably OK because you can count on the road markings being good almost everywhere, but not in the US.
      - imp0cat 3y ago
        I think it only turns on above certain speed and yes, it can get easily confused by various road imperfections. But yeah, you need to make sure there is a physical button on the steering wheel or somehere on the dashboard to easily enable/disable it. Otherwise it can be annoying.
    - brandon272 3y ago

hnick 3y ago

My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, who for various reasons seems to have a bad reputation in North America but a good one in Australia). For the lane keep assist I feel a nudge but it's extremely easy to overcome just through a normal grip on the wheel - if I don't budge it won't move. It's been an issue near construction sometimes but also some wider merges where 2 lanes become one (the markings in Canberra seem to confuse it, but not Sydney) so it does depends a lot on road conditions, but as I say it's annoying at most and I wouldn't call it dangerous in my car and it helps more than it hinders. For AEB, the same system is used in the adaptive cruise control and it's been near perfect. One funny thing was that it just alarmed and fully died in outback Victoria - apparently it is coded to do this as a fail-safe if it hasn't detected a car for a long time due to the system potentially not working. The service centre employee said Hyundai are working on a patch to extend the timeout since it's a little low for country Australian roads (approximately an hour at the moment I think).

kovacs_ 3y ago
Hyundai had a not so great reputation in the early 2000s in the US. In recent years however this opinion seems to have shifted. Been driving an Ioniq 5 2023 for a couple months now with no phantom/emergency braking issues. I'm not in love with the performance of the lane keep without being on an HDA2 marked highway. I have to fight it just enough for it to not be useful on certain well marked backroads. Considering tossing in a Comma 3 to give no-hands driver assist a shot.
- eyphka 3y ago
  Hyundai has been having engine failures, would not recommend as experienced spontaneous engine failure on a less than year old car. Check consumer reports or source below. “In 2020, NHTSA announced civil penalties for the companies—totaling $210 million—for not recalling vehicles in a timely manner. In 2021, a whistleblower who provided NHTSA with information that led to those penalties was awarded $24 million, the agency’s first-ever whistleblower award.” https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why-so-many-hyundai-kia-vehicles-get-recalled-for-fire-risk-a1169940635/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why...

grepfru_it 3y ago

>focus filter I’m more interested in this

ics 3y ago
Just https://heyfocus.com https://heyfocus.com which I must have installed through Setapp, as I don't remember paying for it. It has a scripting capability so in theory I might be able to do something to prevent it from triggering when I'm active in a form.

dvdbloc 3y ago

I also had a very similar experience with lane assist trying to send me straight into a cyclist. Had a newish rental car with lane assist for a day and didn’t even really notice I had lane assist until driving out on a country road in California. Cyclist was up ahead staying nicely in the right of the lane and no one was around so I was giving him plenty of room driving to the left until the lane assist kicked in and pulled me rapidly almost straight into him. If I didn’t have a firm grip of the steering wheel it would have been much more dangerous. I feel bad for him as he was probably fearing for his life and thinking I was a horrible driver…

erhaetherth 3y ago

> somehow universally implemented across manufacturers... maybe. They'd need to be implemented and then turned off for 15 years until 99% of the old cars are off the road and then flipped on simultaneously for every car. If a car suddenly breaks then the car behind it better be able to suddenly break too.

tssva 3y ago
The need to suddenly brake is not a new phenomenon. Cars without AEB can achieve it the old fashioned way. The driver applying the brake.
- bzzzt 3y ago
  The AEB in my 2015 Volvo applies some extra force to the brakes which exceeds just pushing the brake pedal all the way down. Also, according to Volvo statistics it seems that half of all drivers who hit another vehicle from behind do not brake at all prior to the collision. So no, they won't achieve it the old fashioned way all the time.

mns 3y ago

Oh, the Mazda lane assist and lateral collision thing from the side mirrors I found very weird. We rented a MX-30 at one point and were driving on the highway, used the signal to change lanes and mysteriously it decided that there is a car on the other lane (there wasn't) - warning in side mirror, and nudged the wheel and refused to change lanes. It was so weird having the car not allow me to do something because of a "ghost" it saw. Even with our current car, which is not a Mazda, had 2 small incidents in 3 years. One at night while it was raining the front collision warning started beeping, no break though (nothing in front, except rain) and then again, which was a bit dangerous, on the highway on a sunny day, no one in front, somehow I suspect the camera system thought the shadow of an overpass was a car maybe and decided to break all of the sudden (with ACC on), luckily there was no one behind us, but still, was a bit scarry.