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This makes no sense to me. This highly unlikely to be a political move. Science education is not political in India. Evolution, abortion, chemistry are not deba

by screye 3y ago

This makes no sense to me. This highly unlikely to be a political move. Science education is not political in India. Evolution, abortion, chemistry are not debated at all. This is more likely for the reasons to be innocuous. > In explaining its changes, NCERT states on its website that it considered whether content overlapped with similar content covered elsewhere, the difficulty of the content, and whether the content was irrelevant. It also aims to provide opportunities for experiential learning and creativity. > NCERT announced the cuts last year, saying that they would ease pressures on students studying online during the COVID-19 pandemic. Amitabh Joshi, an evolutionary biologist at Jawaharlal Nehru Centre for Advanced Scientific Research in Bengaluru, India, says that science teachers and researchers expected that the content would be reinstated once students returned to classrooms. Instead, the NCERT shocked everyone by printing textbooks for the new academic year with a statement that the changes will remain for the next two academic years, in line with India’s revised education policy approved by government in July 2020. Sounds more like students have continued lagging behind after coming back from Covid, than anything malicious. I have literally never heard of national politicians in India being anti-science. I might be wrong, but I would genuinely like to see 1st source statements from the board indicating that these changes are religiously motivated.

lannisterstark 3y ago
"Science education is not political in India" You've not seen the back cover of textbooks that says X or Y is only possible because of the generosity of the "Insert current Chief Minister of State?"
neilk 3y ago
I have no idea exactly how much this particular curriculum change is influenced by religion. But your assertion that science is depoliticized in India is very wrong. In 2018, the education minister declared Darwin was wrong. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/23/indian-education-minister-dismisses-theory-of-evolution-satyapal-singh https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/23/indian-educati... This is just one of many such troubling incidents, including apparent indifference to the murder of pro-rationalism academics. Anecdotally, if you have people from India in your life, this is inescapable. Constant barrage of forwards on WhatsApp of Hindu supremacy, which necessarily have to flip history upside down. The story goes that Hindus had nuclear energy 10,000 years ago, but filthy foreigners corrupted Mother India.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  Slightly pedantic, but Satya Pal Singh wasn't Minister of Education. That said, the rest is true.
  - dmix 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Pal_Singh_(Uttar_Pradesh_politician) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Pal_Singh_(Uttar_Pradesh... Strange how a former police officer gets a gov job with influence over higher education. He called himself a “man of science” but his entire career was police work with a bit of politics at the tail end. He was “minister of state” [1] for the Ministry of Human Resource Development which apparently was renamed the Ministry of Education after he left. [1] Google tells me that’s an assistant/junior role to the actual Minister.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Minister of State is a generic executive position that is created to reward medium level politicians. Satyapal Singh specifically helped the BJP win over the Jat community in Western Uttar Pradesh which before 2014 voted for the RLD (a Jat primary party in western UP, Rajasthan, and Haryana). By rewarding him, with a low level backbench minister position, he can provide patronage to the rest of his patronage network. He also tried to save Amit Shah+Modi's political skin during the Ishrat Jahan encounter killing case while he was part of the IPS. Indian politics is heavily based on micro-level community based calculations because of how close elections are in India (most elections are decided within 5,000 votes ie. one town). Due to this, caste, family, and regional patronage networks form, and this is common across all parties (INC, BJP, etc). For example, Modi rose to power in Gujarat by helping organize a Dalits+Tribal+Urban coalition in the 1980s and 90s at the expense of a combined Muslim+Patel voting bloc. This same template Modi used is what the BJP has been using since 2014 (intersectionality of identity based on Hinduism ie. Hinduvta). And the same thing happened in Satyapal Singh's area during the Muzaffarnagar/Shamli riots when the Dalit Hindu + Dalit Muslim voter bloc split due to communal violence, leading to Hindu Dalits leaving the BSP for the BJP, Hindu Jatts leaving the RLD for BJP, and Dalit Muslims leaving the BSP to support the Samajwadi Party because there was no other viable party left in Western Uttar Pradesh. I am not a fan of the BJP, but you got to hand it to them - they are probably the only national party in India with a strong understanding of subaltern power struggles and micro-level demographic data. Anyone in the INC who knew this stuff defected to the BJP by 2019 anyhow, but might defect back to the INC assuming the right PM candidate is selected (Gehlot would be a strong competitor against Modi, RG would have a hard time)
spacKingChamath 3y ago
Why would they risk saying its religious motivated at this point. Make the changes small, let the effects trickle in over a decade.
sriram_malhar 3y ago
Ah, you are not reading the situation right. The fascist elements have hijacked the term "science". Nowadays, it is science if you say that cowling protects against atomic radiation ([1]) or you say that ancient India had interplanetary travel ([2]) .. note that the latter was at an official track at the Indian Science Congress on science in ancient India. If the vedas said something, that is science. If the white man brought out a periodic table, either ban it, or say 'our ancient texts already knew about it'. That's the state of India right now. You will never see any statements by the board. They are comprised of people who are either scared shitless of speaking out, or who are really religious fundamentalists at core. [1] https://www.outlookindia.com/national/cow-dung-protects-from-atomic-radiation-cow-urine-cures-incurable-disease-gujarat-judge-news-256279 https://www.outlookindia.com/national/cow-dung-protects-from... [2] https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/economy-politics/story/indian-science-congress-ancient-india-had-planes-144559-2015-01-05 https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/economy-politics/story/i...
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - meepmorp 3y ago
    What does any of this have to do with the US?
    - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
      The United States routinely has states, especially in the South, trying to get rid of evolution from textbooks, that fault line is usually the battleground between religious zealots that desire to inculcate their biblical worldviews into the formal education system. Of course there are also contests to control history, sex education, politics, etc, because those are far more political. The periodic table though, hoo boy, that's a new one.
      - meepmorp 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
alephnerd 3y ago
My hunch is it's probably NEP related. They are trying to do away with School Leaving Certificates at Grade 10, which means you can spread out curriculum across 12 years.
Bhilai 3y ago
> I have literally never heard of national politicians in India being anti-science. Not anti-science per se but Indian politicians are quite famous for pseudo-scientific nonsensical statements like Mr Modi claiming that advanced surgery existed thousands of years ago when doctors sewed an Elephant's head to a God's body[1] and then claiming presence of test tube babies in ancient times[3] On the other hand, Union Health minister Dr Harsh Vardhan claimed that Vedas had knowledge beyond Theory of Relativity[3] BJP, the ruling party has tried to indoctrinate a bunch of nonsense like Wright brothers did not invent the airplane, it was infact ancient Indians[4]. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/28/indian-prime-minister-genetic-science-existed-ancient-times https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/28/indian-prime-m... [2]: https://theprint.in/science/vedic-plastic-surgery-to-test-tube-karna-non-science-claims-flowed-from-modi-downwards/174757/ https://theprint.in/science/vedic-plastic-surgery-to-test-tu... [3]: https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/science-minister-harsh-vardhan-may-have-been-a-victim-of-fake-social-media-info-1191469-2018-03-17 https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/science-minister-harsh-v... [4]: https://theprint.in/india/governance/in-engineering-courses-soon-wright-brothers-didnt-invent-plane-batteries-existed-in-vedic-age/124540/ https://theprint.in/india/governance/in-engineering-courses-...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- rajup 3y ago
  > Not anti-science per se but Indian politicians are quite famous for pseudo-scientific nonsensical statements like Mr Modi claiming that advanced surgery existed thousands of years ago when doctors sewed an Elephant's head to a God's body There is evidence for plastic surgery being known in Ancient India through works of Sushruta/Charaka. Leaving apart the sewing of an elephant’s head on a human body, which was probably added for religious/mythological effect I don’t quite see what’s nonsensical here?
  - xeromal 3y ago
    Seems like the "Leaving apart the sewing of an elephant's head" is the whole point the poster was making. lol
jonathankoren 3y ago
This is the same country that tried to derail the building of a shipping channel because it would have destroyed a bridge built by a monkey army, also known as limestone shoal. https://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1663025,00.html https://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1663025,0...
seatac76 3y ago
I agrée, I also did not have that impression from what I could tell. This is really bad. All talk about demographic dividends and such are moot when such stupidity is ushered in and allowed to prevail. They may be squandering a real opportunity here.
jeswin 3y ago
As with a lot of India news appearing here of late, take this with a pound of salt. Like you were saying, this makes no sense as a political move. Hinduism (and by extension Hindutva, the problematic political form) has no bone to pick with Darwin and evolution. Actually the opposite is true - it's likely to be promoted because evolution is a point of contention in Abrahamic religions. The Indian far-right promotes a lot of fabrications; this isn't one of them though. The two academics quoted in the article come from JNU, which is known for its left/far-left leaning. Looking through their social media, I see retweets of: US stealing Syria's oil, opposition to bombing Syria and aiding Ukraine, etc. What does it say about the author of the story, if she can't see through biases? It's kinda disappointing that balanced opinions are becoming rare in news media.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Hinduism (and by extension Hindutva, the problematic political form) has no bone to pick with Darwin and evolution This is irrelevant to Hindutva qua politics.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
ganeshkrishnan 3y ago
Historically it has never been. Even in day to day life neither science nor evolution or periodic table has been debated. While it could be very innocuous, the new BJP government is also a bit on the "our history, our culture" side. I am hoping this is just the NCERT just removing modules that students just rote learn.
davchana 3y ago
> like to see 1st source statements from the board indicating that these changes are religiously motivated. Nobody responsible or involved with this process is gonna give a written statement that they did to please the evergrowing hindutva or modi bhakti or whatsapp university.
rinka_singh 3y ago
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/class-10-syllabus-change-now-periodic-table-democracy-dropped-from-ncert-textbooks-for-class-10-4084715 https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/class-10-syllabus-change-now... and of course https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1664321985709744128 https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1664321985709744128 Fake news. These topics are covered in the relevant (Science) stream in class 12 now. This is simply rationalization of the subjects to reduce burden on the students. On a related note, I see quite a bit of fake news posted here...

by screye 3y ago

lannisterstark 3y ago

"Science education is not political in India" You've not seen the back cover of textbooks that says X or Y is only possible because of the generosity of the "Insert current Chief Minister of State?"

neilk 3y ago

I have no idea exactly how much this particular curriculum change is influenced by religion. But your assertion that science is depoliticized in India is very wrong. In 2018, the education minister declared Darwin was wrong. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/23/indian-education-minister-dismisses-theory-of-evolution-satyapal-singh https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/23/indian-educati... This is just one of many such troubling incidents, including apparent indifference to the murder of pro-rationalism academics. Anecdotally, if you have people from India in your life, this is inescapable. Constant barrage of forwards on WhatsApp of Hindu supremacy, which necessarily have to flip history upside down. The story goes that Hindus had nuclear energy 10,000 years ago, but filthy foreigners corrupted Mother India.

alephnerd 3y ago
Slightly pedantic, but Satya Pal Singh wasn't Minister of Education. That said, the rest is true.
- dmix 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Pal_Singh_(Uttar_Pradesh_politician) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Pal_Singh_(Uttar_Pradesh... Strange how a former police officer gets a gov job with influence over higher education. He called himself a “man of science” but his entire career was police work with a bit of politics at the tail end. He was “minister of state” [1] for the Ministry of Human Resource Development which apparently was renamed the Ministry of Education after he left. [1] Google tells me that’s an assistant/junior role to the actual Minister.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Minister of State is a generic executive position that is created to reward medium level politicians. Satyapal Singh specifically helped the BJP win over the Jat community in Western Uttar Pradesh which before 2014 voted for the RLD (a Jat primary party in western UP, Rajasthan, and Haryana). By rewarding him, with a low level backbench minister position, he can provide patronage to the rest of his patronage network. He also tried to save Amit Shah+Modi's political skin during the Ishrat Jahan encounter killing case while he was part of the IPS. Indian politics is heavily based on micro-level community based calculations because of how close elections are in India (most elections are decided within 5,000 votes ie. one town). Due to this, caste, family, and regional patronage networks form, and this is common across all parties (INC, BJP, etc). For example, Modi rose to power in Gujarat by helping organize a Dalits+Tribal+Urban coalition in the 1980s and 90s at the expense of a combined Muslim+Patel voting bloc. This same template Modi used is what the BJP has been using since 2014 (intersectionality of identity based on Hinduism ie. Hinduvta). And the same thing happened in Satyapal Singh's area during the Muzaffarnagar/Shamli riots when the Dalit Hindu + Dalit Muslim voter bloc split due to communal violence, leading to Hindu Dalits leaving the BSP for the BJP, Hindu Jatts leaving the RLD for BJP, and Dalit Muslims leaving the BSP to support the Samajwadi Party because there was no other viable party left in Western Uttar Pradesh. I am not a fan of the BJP, but you got to hand it to them - they are probably the only national party in India with a strong understanding of subaltern power struggles and micro-level demographic data. Anyone in the INC who knew this stuff defected to the BJP by 2019 anyhow, but might defect back to the INC assuming the right PM candidate is selected (Gehlot would be a strong competitor against Modi, RG would have a hard time)

spacKingChamath 3y ago

Why would they risk saying its religious motivated at this point. Make the changes small, let the effects trickle in over a decade.

sriram_malhar 3y ago

Ah, you are not reading the situation right. The fascist elements have hijacked the term "science". Nowadays, it is science if you say that cowling protects against atomic radiation ([1]) or you say that ancient India had interplanetary travel ([2]) .. note that the latter was at an official track at the Indian Science Congress on science in ancient India. If the vedas said something, that is science. If the white man brought out a periodic table, either ban it, or say 'our ancient texts already knew about it'. That's the state of India right now. You will never see any statements by the board. They are comprised of people who are either scared shitless of speaking out, or who are really religious fundamentalists at core. [1] https://www.outlookindia.com/national/cow-dung-protects-from-atomic-radiation-cow-urine-cures-incurable-disease-gujarat-judge-news-256279 https://www.outlookindia.com/national/cow-dung-protects-from... [2] https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/economy-politics/story/indian-science-congress-ancient-india-had-planes-144559-2015-01-05 https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/economy-politics/story/i...

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
[flagged]
- meepmorp 3y ago
  What does any of this have to do with the US?
  - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
    The United States routinely has states, especially in the South, trying to get rid of evolution from textbooks, that fault line is usually the battleground between religious zealots that desire to inculcate their biblical worldviews into the formal education system. Of course there are also contests to control history, sex education, politics, etc, because those are far more political. The periodic table though, hoo boy, that's a new one.
    - meepmorp 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

alephnerd 3y ago

My hunch is it's probably NEP related. They are trying to do away with School Leaving Certificates at Grade 10, which means you can spread out curriculum across 12 years.

Bhilai 3y ago

> I have literally never heard of national politicians in India being anti-science. Not anti-science per se but Indian politicians are quite famous for pseudo-scientific nonsensical statements like Mr Modi claiming that advanced surgery existed thousands of years ago when doctors sewed an Elephant's head to a God's body[1] and then claiming presence of test tube babies in ancient times[3] On the other hand, Union Health minister Dr Harsh Vardhan claimed that Vedas had knowledge beyond Theory of Relativity[3] BJP, the ruling party has tried to indoctrinate a bunch of nonsense like Wright brothers did not invent the airplane, it was infact ancient Indians[4]. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/28/indian-prime-minister-genetic-science-existed-ancient-times https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/28/indian-prime-m... [2]: https://theprint.in/science/vedic-plastic-surgery-to-test-tube-karna-non-science-claims-flowed-from-modi-downwards/174757/ https://theprint.in/science/vedic-plastic-surgery-to-test-tu... [3]: https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/science-minister-harsh-vardhan-may-have-been-a-victim-of-fake-social-media-info-1191469-2018-03-17 https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/science-minister-harsh-v... [4]: https://theprint.in/india/governance/in-engineering-courses-soon-wright-brothers-didnt-invent-plane-batteries-existed-in-vedic-age/124540/ https://theprint.in/india/governance/in-engineering-courses-...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rajup 3y ago
> Not anti-science per se but Indian politicians are quite famous for pseudo-scientific nonsensical statements like Mr Modi claiming that advanced surgery existed thousands of years ago when doctors sewed an Elephant's head to a God's body There is evidence for plastic surgery being known in Ancient India through works of Sushruta/Charaka. Leaving apart the sewing of an elephant’s head on a human body, which was probably added for religious/mythological effect I don’t quite see what’s nonsensical here?
- xeromal 3y ago
  Seems like the "Leaving apart the sewing of an elephant's head" is the whole point the poster was making. lol

jonathankoren 3y ago

This is the same country that tried to derail the building of a shipping channel because it would have destroyed a bridge built by a monkey army, also known as limestone shoal. https://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1663025,00.html https://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1663025,0...

seatac76 3y ago

I agrée, I also did not have that impression from what I could tell. This is really bad. All talk about demographic dividends and such are moot when such stupidity is ushered in and allowed to prevail. They may be squandering a real opportunity here.

jeswin 3y ago

As with a lot of India news appearing here of late, take this with a pound of salt. Like you were saying, this makes no sense as a political move. Hinduism (and by extension Hindutva, the problematic political form) has no bone to pick with Darwin and evolution. Actually the opposite is true - it's likely to be promoted because evolution is a point of contention in Abrahamic religions. The Indian far-right promotes a lot of fabrications; this isn't one of them though. The two academics quoted in the article come from JNU, which is known for its left/far-left leaning. Looking through their social media, I see retweets of: US stealing Syria's oil, opposition to bombing Syria and aiding Ukraine, etc. What does it say about the author of the story, if she can't see through biases? It's kinda disappointing that balanced opinions are becoming rare in news media.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Hinduism (and by extension Hindutva, the problematic political form) has no bone to pick with Darwin and evolution This is irrelevant to Hindutva qua politics.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

ganeshkrishnan 3y ago

Historically it has never been. Even in day to day life neither science nor evolution or periodic table has been debated. While it could be very innocuous, the new BJP government is also a bit on the "our history, our culture" side. I am hoping this is just the NCERT just removing modules that students just rote learn.

davchana 3y ago

> like to see 1st source statements from the board indicating that these changes are religiously motivated. Nobody responsible or involved with this process is gonna give a written statement that they did to please the evergrowing hindutva or modi bhakti or whatsapp university.

rinka_singh 3y ago

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/class-10-syllabus-change-now-periodic-table-democracy-dropped-from-ncert-textbooks-for-class-10-4084715 https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/class-10-syllabus-change-now... and of course https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1664321985709744128 https://twitter.com/ncert/status/1664321985709744128 Fake news. These topics are covered in the relevant (Science) stream in class 12 now. This is simply rationalization of the subjects to reduce burden on the students. On a related note, I see quite a bit of fake news posted here...