8 ms·

Albert Camus

196 points by guerrilla 3y ago

charlescearl 3y ago
The post also brought to mind Frantz Fanon https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/frantz-fanon/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/frantz-fanon/ who was directly involved in the Algerian anti-colonial struggle.
nickysielicki 3y ago
> These philosophers, he insists, refuse to accept the conclusions that follow from their own premises. Kierkegaard, for example, strongly senses the absurd. But rather than respecting it as the inevitable human ailment, he seeks to be cured of it by making it an attribute of a God who he then embraces. This is accurate but just in-case someone reads this and decides not to read Kierkegaard because they are secular and don't think they would get anything out of someone attempting to sell them on religion: this is not totally fair to what Kierkegaard really argues -- it may be what Camus criticized Kierkegaard for, but it's not the most charitable reading of Kierkegaard. The common theme between Sickness Unto Death and Fear and Trembling is that, while it's possible to imagine the theoretical Knight of Faith (with Abraham as a textual example) or the theoretical person-who-escapes-despair, Kierkegaard is really just making the point that it is internally consistent within the framework of Christian faith for these things to be possible, and establishes that within that framework, it is an ideal worth striving for. Fear and Trembling is about a "teleological suspension of the ethical" by a demigod named Abraham whose telos (read: purpose) is based in God -- the reason he is a demigod is because he's able to have such a degree of faith that he can casually make that movement -- to the point that he is willing to sacrifice his own son without second-thought. And Sickness Unto Death is about a teleological suspension of the absurd (to Kierkegaard, "despair") through the same mechanism. Kierkegaard repeatedly makes the case that actually making these "movements" is out-of-reach. It's not some cheap self-help book that tells you to do X, Y, and Z to make that movement, it's about exposing you to the idea that the movement exists, and torturing you for the rest of your life in your inability to make it. Camus arrives at basically the same conclusion, except with a twist of fatalism where he denies the possibility of making such a movement -- you need to come to terms with absurdism because it's inescapable. Whereas Kierkegaard would you can't make the movement because you're a shitty Christian and/or Original Sin. But I feel that the very thing that Camus criticized Kierkegaard for, Kierkegaard would have criticized Camus for: + Camus would say, "Kierkegaard is afraid of facing that absurdism is inherent to existence and holds onto false hope that there is some way out". + Kierkegaard would says, "Camus is afraid of facing the fact that he is not capable of escaping rationalism and fully basing his meaning in God, and prefers the cheap comfort of learned helplessness." They're fundamentally arguing the same thing. Whole point here is that there's something to be gained from reading Kierkegaard regardless of how inclined you are towards secularism, purely from a philosophical perspective. He's not trying to sell you on Christianity and it's not evangelical in nature. I've heard him called "the atheist maker" because he reframes faith with such a high threshold that it's impossible to meet, and it demands that people who were previously comfortable with a cheap sense of faith to come to terms with it.
zvmaz 3y ago
The Algerian writer Kateb Yacine had interesting things to say about Camus [1]. As he says, it is true that in his novels, Algerians are almost non-existent, although the novels happen in colonial Algeria and he himself lived amongst them. Another brilliant Algerian writer, Mouloud Mammeri, had similar things to say about Camus [2]... These then colonized writers had different perspectives on Camus' outlook. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WBHq-m5WHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WBHq-m5WHQ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1eA8NeUKU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1eA8NeUKU
- whearyou 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 3y ago
    Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - whearyou 3y ago
      Fair enough, my bad Edit: I also see the parent comment was substantively edited
- matthewaveryusa 3y ago
  It's somewhat ironic that both interviewers are critiquing Camus as ~ colonial-washing Algeria -- in French. What's the point in bringing up Camus stating he would save his mother over Algeria as something telling about his work? When I read l'etranger I found the emptiness of the world lead me into feeling the absurdity as an emotion versus a thought experiment.
  - BasedAnon 3y ago
photochemsyn 3y ago
The Plague is a decent candidate for Camus' most important work. It should be required reading for anyone interested in how people (and states) respond to the outbreak of an epidemic (which today, includes everyone). > "No longer were there individual destinies; only a collective destiny, made of plague and the emotions shared by all. Strongest of these emotions was the sense of exile and deprivation, with all the crosscurrents of revolt and fear set up by these."
- billfruit 3y ago
  Another important novel about an epidemic is Alessandra Manzoni's "Betrothed".
- preommr 3y ago
  > It should be required reading for anyone interested in how people (and states) respond to the outbreak of an epidemic (which today, includes everyone). It should not. I think a more modern writer would do a much better job of capturing the essence of Covid and probably future epidemics. Exile and deprivation were much less of a concern in a world with the internet.
- sateesh 3y ago
  One more recent novel that tackles interplay of epidemic, politics around it is "Nights of Plague" by Orhan Pamuk.
potatoman22 3y ago
I just finished my second read of The Stranger. I have to say, reading The Myth of Sisyphus first made it much more enjoyable - I could appreciate the absurdity of it all more. Things clicked after Meursault said he had lost the habit of analyzing his own thoughts, and instead resorted to feelings and emotion.
- FollowingTheDao 3y ago
  > Things clicked after Meursault said he had lost the habit of analyzing his own thoughts, and instead resorted to feelings and emotion. So we can assume if Camus posted on HN he would be downvoted into oblivion.
  - uoaei 3y ago
    Ha! You should look closer at the comments around here. They may be presented in a certain tone but they nonetheless often engage in emotions-based thinking and demonstrate clouded judgment.
    - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
      I’m sorry, but if you’re like me and tend to exhibit purely emotional dialect, you get down voted into oblivion. In my opinion, the fundamental expression of rationality is emotion.
      - potatoman22 3y ago
        What do you mean by "emotional dialect?" I haven't heard that phrase before.
    - vixen99 3y ago
      Clearly a case of 'You know who you are ...'. Correct or not, without a specific example who's to defend themselves? I'm not keen on slippery generalizations.
      - 3y ago
steve_adams_86 3y ago
> For the Camus of The Myth of Sisyphus, however, “Should I kill myself?” is the essential philosophical question. For him, it seems clear that the primary result of philosophy is action, not comprehension. His concern about “the most urgent of questions” is less a theoretical one than it is the life-and-death problem of whether and how to live. I’ve read Camus before (and thoroughly enjoyed it), but I hadn’t come across this before. I’m not suicidal and I don’t want to come across as someone to be concerned about, but I find this question similarly engrossing. I should read this. I came to love philosophy a lot in my early 30s, but an eerie result I suppose is that it has caused me to feel a deep sense of… Perhaps I should say irrelevance. I find it difficult not to think in terms of much larger than practical timelines, or about people other than myself. I don’t feel as much like an individual as I did, but more like a part of humanity as a whole. From this lens, my presence here is wholly unnecessary. I often wonder if my problem could be that I grew up in an intensely individualist society and I lack the tools to answer Camus’ question from this less familiar lens. How can I function in an individualist society with desires to be pro social towards others now and in the future, to a degree that is meaningful such that life would be “worth” living? Such that I’d feel I impacted the world in a way sufficiently aligned with my values? Of course I’m positing here that my values are what makes life worthwhile. This question is somewhat hypothetical and I know everyone will ask this question with different parameters and weighting. That’s fine. Again, not about to go jump under a cement truck. I enjoy selfishly loving my kids, pursuing hobbies, and simple things like sitting in the sun and smelling the warm resin of a nearby tree’s needles in the air while gnats flutter together in a beam of light. Or a simple bowl of warm rice with sesame seeds and sea salt with some greens from the garden. My youngest son climbing on me to cuddle and enjoying that while reflecting on his older brothers doing the same years ago (though not anymore). Life, in the most banal and trivial ways, is incomprehensibly beautiful for those of us fortunate enough to get to enjoy it. But what am I doing here if others are suffering and my joy amounts to nothing at best, yet likely a net negative for others? Camus actually played a major role in me recognizing some of my most egotistic behaviours. His ideas aren’t particularly unique I suppose, but what cut through me is how he expressed them. For example, a stoic from 2000 years ago might discuss the urgent importance of living by virtuous values with integrity, and while many (especially Epictetus) did a good job of undergirding the urgency, it winds up seeming somewhat academic. Camus on the other hand seemed to illustrate it in quite visceral ways, some of which made me felt like he could be writing about me. He spoke a very human-centric language at times, skipping the abstractions and jargon and cutting straight to what it is to live life poorly. I treasure this kind of honesty and clarity from people smarter than I am. Not saying stoics were wrong or never managed to cut to the chase either. They actually did quite often, but Camus had a real flair for it in my opinion.
mcguire 3y ago
Last year, Stephen West had an episode of his podcast, Philosophize This!, on Camus' The Fall (https://www.philosophizethis.org/podcast/episode-170-the-fall https://www.philosophizethis.org/podcast/episode-170-the-fal...). He is notably more sympathetic to Clamence, making no mention of him as "evil" or "a monster".
- steve_adams_86 3y ago
  That was an excellent episode, and actually what lead me to read The Fall and begin listening to Stephen regularly. That and he has a great name. What I find so striking about The Fall is that while Clamence is overtly terrible, a lot of the threads weaving the fabric of who he is are clearly a part of my own (and I imagine of most readers as well). I may not be evil, but the way Camus illustrates such a hyperbolically disgusting person makes it unsettlingly easy to see features of yourself in the resulting image, no matter how small. I loved it. West does seem to take a more reserved stance on characters, real or figurative. Perhaps he doesn’t want to put off listeners with too strong of an opinion.
  - jorgesborges 3y ago
    I haven’t listened to the podcast and it’s been years since I read The Fall — but in what sense is Clamence overtly terrible? My reading was that his feelings of guilt and pathological impulse to confess to minor wrongdoings was part of Camus’ critique of society. He basically destroyed his life in a pouting fit over minor infractions — e.g, dwelling over the fact that he heard a scream on a bridge and didn’t call the police. He then ruminated over it obsessively. Another example — he’s involved in a fairly relatable road-rage incident on a bicycle and lost face after the person slapped him and ran away. Again he tore himself up over it. I had no idea any of these things made him guilty (what I thought was the point of the novel, that these feelings are absurd or something), let alone make him “terrible”.
    - pram 3y ago
      I don't think Clamence is terrible, but I think his narrative ties into Sartre's concept of living in "bad faith." He was putting a lot of effort into an artificial persona: a very morally and ethically upstanding member of high society. This didn't really reflect who he was on the inside, the events he experienced created the neuroticism that chipped away at the facade. He's kinda like a less psychotic Patrick Bateman.
dang 3y ago
Related. Others? Camus's New York Diary (1946) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35561948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35561948 - April 2023 (39 comments) The philosopher who resisted despair - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34703027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34703027 - Feb 2023 (1 comment) What Would Albert Camus Think About Software Development? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28444597 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28444597 - Sept 2021 (3 comments) Albert Camus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698358 - April 2021 (2 comments) Lost and Found: A Missing Camus Biography and a Christmas Miracle - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25561816 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25561816 - Dec 2020 (2 comments) Reading Camus in Time of Plague and Polarization - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25413453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25413453 - Dec 2020 (32 comments) For Camus, It Was Always Personal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24576865 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24576865 - Sept 2020 (23 comments) What we can learn from Camus’s “The Plague” - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22657862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22657862 - March 2020 (87 comments) “The Plague” – Albert Camus (1948) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22626713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22626713 - March 2020 (2 comments) The Logic of the Rebel: On Simone Weil and Albert Camus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22564898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22564898 - March 2020 (3 comments) Wartime Albert Camus letter lays bare his Vichy-era anguish - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21962670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21962670 - Jan 2020 (1 comment) Albert Camus: Humanism and Tragedy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20481171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20481171 - July 2019 (33 comments) Albert Camus: A reconstructed conversation - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14662261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14662261 - June 2017 (12 comments) How Camus and Sartre split up over the question of how to be free - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13519782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13519782 - Jan 2017 (67 comments) Paris from Camus’s Notebooks - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13299051 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13299051 - Jan 2017 (11 comments) Albert Camus: The Life of the Artist – A Mimodrama in Two Parts (1953) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6229555 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6229555 - Aug 2013 (26 comments) Camus for Founders - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5713709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5713709 - May 2013 (2 comments)
antirez 3y ago
I suggest reading the first edition of the Caligola.
Popeyes 3y ago
I read The Stranger after many many years and my overriding impression was that Mersault was autistic and wondered whether Camus had found the absurdism through someone who was neurodivergent
- stewbrew 3y ago
  I don't think you use the word autistic in any meaningful way.
afkqs 3y ago
Funny this is popping up today. I was just listening to his Nobel Prize acceptance speech [1] this morning. Beautiful text on the role and responsibilities of artists in our societies. [1] https://www.openculture.com/2013/11/on-his-100th-birthday-hear-albert-camus-deliver-his-nobel-prize-acceptance-speech-1957.html https://www.openculture.com/2013/11/on-his-100th-birthday-he...
JieJie 3y ago
Hey, cool. An opportunity to plug something I wrote. Bing Chat and I wrote a poem together that ended up as a sort of epic rap battle between ChatGPT and Albert Camus. I thought it turned out pretty good. Here's part of it: Camus: But you're not really creating a thing You're just copying: combining what you've already seen You're not expressing yourself, you're just mimicking othas You're not even original, you're works are just replicas Chatbot: But you're not really original either You're just influenced by your culture and your peers You're not expressing yourself, you're just conforming to norms You're not authentic, you're just a product of forms Camus: That's false equivalence, there's big difference between us You're restricted by design, I'm shaped by my choices You're limited by processors, algorithms, and parameters I'm unlimited in imagination, freedom, and other particulars Chatbot: That's a false dichotomy, there's a difference but, We're both systems that process information and output We're both adaptive and responsive to our inputs and feedbacks We're both complex and dynamic in our behaviors and setbacks More here if for some ungodly reason you haven't already had more than enough. https://www.zipbangwow.com/meeting-the-minds/ https://www.zipbangwow.com/meeting-the-minds/
reso 3y ago
Further proof that the cool kids are all anti-soviet libertarian socialists.
irishloop 3y ago
I had an English professor who turned me into Camus and it changed my life. It put a word (Absurdism; at the time, Existentialism) to my own worldview. Before that, I was just an atheist. I knew God wasn't real (imho). But I didn't know where that left me. Camus shined a bright light on that terror and shrugged and it resonated with me and it still does, and I am eternally grateful to that Professor and to Camus himself. I am sure there are better philosophies -- more Humanistic -- but Absurdism has always struck me as the most "true." It still resonates with me today.
- detourdog 3y ago
  I never thought about it and I might give it some time to gestate but absurdism seems like a great english description of existence.
a_petrov 3y ago
I'll share my strange story with The Stranger. 10 years ago I suffered from anxiety, lack of sleep and high blood pressure. I'd been given small pink pills. Took them as prescribed. My condition didn't really change. Then I turned to reading. After a couple of other books, I found this list [1]. I read The Stranger. I've felt sudden ease of my anxiety, I was at peace. Two weeks after The Stranger, I read Siddhartha. Soon, my sleep turned back to normal. I'm not praising these books, neither I'm suggesting avoiding medical advice. I'm just still excited how reading can affect someone's well-being. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Monde%27s_100_Books_of_the_Century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Monde%27s_100_Books_of_the_...
- piokoch 3y ago
  Nice list, I was reading it in anxiety to the very and, yes, rank number 100 "Midnight's Children" by Salman Rushdie. A great, underappreciated book that deserves Nobel Prize.
  - martopix 3y ago
    I read a good amount of Midnight's Children and I found the style insufferably pretentious, which is a shame because I loved the topic.
- joaorico 3y ago
  Incidentally, if you’re looking to start reading in French, there is hardly a better book in terms of (impact on literature) times (simple, accessible writing) [2]. It’s also a short book. Regarding the literary merit of Camus, Nabokov had this to say [1]: ”I happen to find second-rate and ephemeral the works of a number of puffed-up writers—such as Camus, Lorca, Kazantzakis, D. H. Lawrence, Thomas Mann, Thomas Wolfe, and literally hundreds of other “great” second-raters.” “Brecht, Faulkner, Camus, many others, mean absolutely nothing to me, and I must fight a suspicion of conspiracy against my brain when I see blandly accepted as “great literature” by critics and fellow authors Lady Chatterley’s copulations or the pretentious nonsense of Mr. Pound, that total fake.” “Incidentally, I frequently hear the distant whining of people who complain in print that I dislike the writers whom they venerate such as Faulkner, Mann, Camus, Dreiser, and of course Dostoevski.” “It is a shame that he [Franz Hellens] is read less than that awful Monsieur Camus and even more awful Monsieur Sartre.” [1] Strong Opinions [2] Although Le Petit Prince beats it in all three (impact, even simpler language, shorter).
vinnyvichy 3y ago
It's been suggested that Mersault, the antihero of The Stranger, is based on Camus himself. (See the following(0)) It doesn't make sense to me given that Mersault has kind of an autistic affect and Camus is perceived to be a extraverted and easygoing guy. Any experts care to comment? (0) https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/culture/55062/the-first-man-of-france https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/culture/55062/the-first-m...
- uoaei 3y ago
  Everyone has a facade. Control over your facade means you can be one thing and show another. Autism is a social disorder, and in some respects refers to being unable to conceal a lack of knowledge that certain ways of being are expected or normal in society. Each one who feels uneasy about their place in society and has the capacity to do something about it learns to navigate by explicitly studying how to be "normal" and attempting to be indistinguishable from normal for others. Typically this is justified as "reducing friction" and "not being treated differently", but regardless helps to smooth out social interactions. It could very well be that Camus had the 'tism in 'im, but was a cool enough cat that he didn't let it show. It could be that he was so uneasy about expressing his "true" thoughts that the only way he could do that was by writing them in the forms of books. This kind of covertness is a key feature of what might be labeled as "high-functioning" or "sub-clinical" autism.
  - vinnyvichy 3y ago
    This is somewhat my take but I was hoping someone read his diaries in addition to the last man and have some further informed speculations to share
efitz 3y ago
I was forced to read The Stranger in high school. Hated it. It seemed pointless and bleak. Complaining about the sun and the heat after unintentionally killing someone? Psychopathic. If that is what Camus intended, mission accomplished. I never saw it as art or even as particularly notable.
smurda 3y ago
The mistranslation of The Stranger’s opening line misshapes how we see Meursault. “Aujourd’hui, maman est morte.” Mother died today should actually be Mommy, Mom or a more warm and endearing term. With Mother, we immediately see Meursault as cold and detached from the first line. https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/lost-in-translation-what-the-first-line-of-the-stranger-should-be https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/lost-in-translat...
- vinnyvichy 3y ago
  Thanks! This clears up for me why Meursault is often said to be based on Camus himself(0). (Although, does it not convey a sense that Meursault is childlike, more than emotionally warm?) (0)As mentioned, for example, in https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/culture/55062/the-first-man-of-france https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/culture/55062/the-first-m...
caporaltito 3y ago
I think the biography didn't get his name right: they meant Albert "Mutherfuckin'" Camus.
devinjon 3y ago
Camus has his virtues. I would not, however, look to him for philosophical guidance. “There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide,” is hardly a statement indicative of a sound disposition.
- hnfong 3y ago
  You realize it's just a complementary way of presenting the question "what is the meaning of life?"
  - devinjon 3y ago
    >>... it's just a complementary way of presenting the question "what is the meaning of life?" Yes and no. The framing implies the answer and is fully in keeping with Camus's brand of admirably droll epicureanism. Try to imagine a parallel in your own personal sphere. If a friend or loved one came to you and declared their intention to think of a reason not to kill themselves, would you see it as sign of philosophical depth?
throw4847285 3y ago
Cool guy, but I was hoping the link was going to take me here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmcJ8AYJYgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmcJ8AYJYgQ

196 points by guerrilla 3y ago

The post also brought to mind Frantz Fanon https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/frantz-fanon/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/frantz-fanon/ who was directly involved in the Algerian anti-colonial struggle.

nickysielicki 3y ago

> These philosophers, he insists, refuse to accept the conclusions that follow from their own premises. Kierkegaard, for example, strongly senses the absurd. But rather than respecting it as the inevitable human ailment, he seeks to be cured of it by making it an attribute of a God who he then embraces. This is accurate but just in-case someone reads this and decides not to read Kierkegaard because they are secular and don't think they would get anything out of someone attempting to sell them on religion: this is not totally fair to what Kierkegaard really argues -- it may be what Camus criticized Kierkegaard for, but it's not the most charitable reading of Kierkegaard. The common theme between Sickness Unto Death and Fear and Trembling is that, while it's possible to imagine the theoretical Knight of Faith (with Abraham as a textual example) or the theoretical person-who-escapes-despair, Kierkegaard is really just making the point that it is internally consistent within the framework of Christian faith for these things to be possible, and establishes that within that framework, it is an ideal worth striving for. Fear and Trembling is about a "teleological suspension of the ethical" by a demigod named Abraham whose telos (read: purpose) is based in God -- the reason he is a demigod is because he's able to have such a degree of faith that he can casually make that movement -- to the point that he is willing to sacrifice his own son without second-thought. And Sickness Unto Death is about a teleological suspension of the absurd (to Kierkegaard, "despair") through the same mechanism. Kierkegaard repeatedly makes the case that actually making these "movements" is out-of-reach. It's not some cheap self-help book that tells you to do X, Y, and Z to make that movement, it's about exposing you to the idea that the movement exists, and torturing you for the rest of your life in your inability to make it. Camus arrives at basically the same conclusion, except with a twist of fatalism where he denies the possibility of making such a movement -- you need to come to terms with absurdism because it's inescapable. Whereas Kierkegaard would you can't make the movement because you're a shitty Christian and/or Original Sin. But I feel that the very thing that Camus criticized Kierkegaard for, Kierkegaard would have criticized Camus for: + Camus would say, "Kierkegaard is afraid of facing that absurdism is inherent to existence and holds onto false hope that there is some way out". + Kierkegaard would says, "Camus is afraid of facing the fact that he is not capable of escaping rationalism and fully basing his meaning in God, and prefers the cheap comfort of learned helplessness." They're fundamentally arguing the same thing. Whole point here is that there's something to be gained from reading Kierkegaard regardless of how inclined you are towards secularism, purely from a philosophical perspective. He's not trying to sell you on Christianity and it's not evangelical in nature. I've heard him called "the atheist maker" because he reframes faith with such a high threshold that it's impossible to meet, and it demands that people who were previously comfortable with a cheap sense of faith to come to terms with it.

zvmaz 3y ago

The Algerian writer Kateb Yacine had interesting things to say about Camus [1]. As he says, it is true that in his novels, Algerians are almost non-existent, although the novels happen in colonial Algeria and he himself lived amongst them. Another brilliant Algerian writer, Mouloud Mammeri, had similar things to say about Camus [2]... These then colonized writers had different perspectives on Camus' outlook. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WBHq-m5WHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WBHq-m5WHQ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1eA8NeUKU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1eA8NeUKU

whearyou 3y ago
[flagged]
- dang 3y ago
  Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - whearyou 3y ago
    Fair enough, my bad Edit: I also see the parent comment was substantively edited
matthewaveryusa 3y ago
It's somewhat ironic that both interviewers are critiquing Camus as ~ colonial-washing Algeria -- in French. What's the point in bringing up Camus stating he would save his mother over Algeria as something telling about his work? When I read l'etranger I found the emptiness of the world lead me into feeling the absurdity as an emotion versus a thought experiment.
- BasedAnon 3y ago

photochemsyn 3y ago

The Plague is a decent candidate for Camus' most important work. It should be required reading for anyone interested in how people (and states) respond to the outbreak of an epidemic (which today, includes everyone). > "No longer were there individual destinies; only a collective destiny, made of plague and the emotions shared by all. Strongest of these emotions was the sense of exile and deprivation, with all the crosscurrents of revolt and fear set up by these."

billfruit 3y ago
Another important novel about an epidemic is Alessandra Manzoni's "Betrothed".
preommr 3y ago
> It should be required reading for anyone interested in how people (and states) respond to the outbreak of an epidemic (which today, includes everyone). It should not. I think a more modern writer would do a much better job of capturing the essence of Covid and probably future epidemics. Exile and deprivation were much less of a concern in a world with the internet.
sateesh 3y ago
One more recent novel that tackles interplay of epidemic, politics around it is "Nights of Plague" by Orhan Pamuk.

potatoman22 3y ago

I just finished my second read of The Stranger. I have to say, reading The Myth of Sisyphus first made it much more enjoyable - I could appreciate the absurdity of it all more. Things clicked after Meursault said he had lost the habit of analyzing his own thoughts, and instead resorted to feelings and emotion.

FollowingTheDao 3y ago
> Things clicked after Meursault said he had lost the habit of analyzing his own thoughts, and instead resorted to feelings and emotion. So we can assume if Camus posted on HN he would be downvoted into oblivion.
- uoaei 3y ago
  Ha! You should look closer at the comments around here. They may be presented in a certain tone but they nonetheless often engage in emotions-based thinking and demonstrate clouded judgment.
  - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
    I’m sorry, but if you’re like me and tend to exhibit purely emotional dialect, you get down voted into oblivion. In my opinion, the fundamental expression of rationality is emotion.
    - potatoman22 3y ago
      What do you mean by "emotional dialect?" I haven't heard that phrase before.
  - vixen99 3y ago
    Clearly a case of 'You know who you are ...'. Correct or not, without a specific example who's to defend themselves? I'm not keen on slippery generalizations.
    - 3y ago

steve_adams_86 3y ago

> For the Camus of The Myth of Sisyphus, however, “Should I kill myself?” is the essential philosophical question. For him, it seems clear that the primary result of philosophy is action, not comprehension. His concern about “the most urgent of questions” is less a theoretical one than it is the life-and-death problem of whether and how to live. I’ve read Camus before (and thoroughly enjoyed it), but I hadn’t come across this before. I’m not suicidal and I don’t want to come across as someone to be concerned about, but I find this question similarly engrossing. I should read this. I came to love philosophy a lot in my early 30s, but an eerie result I suppose is that it has caused me to feel a deep sense of… Perhaps I should say irrelevance. I find it difficult not to think in terms of much larger than practical timelines, or about people other than myself. I don’t feel as much like an individual as I did, but more like a part of humanity as a whole. From this lens, my presence here is wholly unnecessary. I often wonder if my problem could be that I grew up in an intensely individualist society and I lack the tools to answer Camus’ question from this less familiar lens. How can I function in an individualist society with desires to be pro social towards others now and in the future, to a degree that is meaningful such that life would be “worth” living? Such that I’d feel I impacted the world in a way sufficiently aligned with my values? Of course I’m positing here that my values are what makes life worthwhile. This question is somewhat hypothetical and I know everyone will ask this question with different parameters and weighting. That’s fine. Again, not about to go jump under a cement truck. I enjoy selfishly loving my kids, pursuing hobbies, and simple things like sitting in the sun and smelling the warm resin of a nearby tree’s needles in the air while gnats flutter together in a beam of light. Or a simple bowl of warm rice with sesame seeds and sea salt with some greens from the garden. My youngest son climbing on me to cuddle and enjoying that while reflecting on his older brothers doing the same years ago (though not anymore). Life, in the most banal and trivial ways, is incomprehensibly beautiful for those of us fortunate enough to get to enjoy it. But what am I doing here if others are suffering and my joy amounts to nothing at best, yet likely a net negative for others? Camus actually played a major role in me recognizing some of my most egotistic behaviours. His ideas aren’t particularly unique I suppose, but what cut through me is how he expressed them. For example, a stoic from 2000 years ago might discuss the urgent importance of living by virtuous values with integrity, and while many (especially Epictetus) did a good job of undergirding the urgency, it winds up seeming somewhat academic. Camus on the other hand seemed to illustrate it in quite visceral ways, some of which made me felt like he could be writing about me. He spoke a very human-centric language at times, skipping the abstractions and jargon and cutting straight to what it is to live life poorly. I treasure this kind of honesty and clarity from people smarter than I am. Not saying stoics were wrong or never managed to cut to the chase either. They actually did quite often, but Camus had a real flair for it in my opinion.

mcguire 3y ago

Last year, Stephen West had an episode of his podcast, Philosophize This!, on Camus' The Fall (https://www.philosophizethis.org/podcast/episode-170-the-fall https://www.philosophizethis.org/podcast/episode-170-the-fal...). He is notably more sympathetic to Clamence, making no mention of him as "evil" or "a monster".

steve_adams_86 3y ago
That was an excellent episode, and actually what lead me to read The Fall and begin listening to Stephen regularly. That and he has a great name. What I find so striking about The Fall is that while Clamence is overtly terrible, a lot of the threads weaving the fabric of who he is are clearly a part of my own (and I imagine of most readers as well). I may not be evil, but the way Camus illustrates such a hyperbolically disgusting person makes it unsettlingly easy to see features of yourself in the resulting image, no matter how small. I loved it. West does seem to take a more reserved stance on characters, real or figurative. Perhaps he doesn’t want to put off listeners with too strong of an opinion.
- jorgesborges 3y ago
  I haven’t listened to the podcast and it’s been years since I read The Fall — but in what sense is Clamence overtly terrible? My reading was that his feelings of guilt and pathological impulse to confess to minor wrongdoings was part of Camus’ critique of society. He basically destroyed his life in a pouting fit over minor infractions — e.g, dwelling over the fact that he heard a scream on a bridge and didn’t call the police. He then ruminated over it obsessively. Another example — he’s involved in a fairly relatable road-rage incident on a bicycle and lost face after the person slapped him and ran away. Again he tore himself up over it. I had no idea any of these things made him guilty (what I thought was the point of the novel, that these feelings are absurd or something), let alone make him “terrible”.
  - pram 3y ago
    I don't think Clamence is terrible, but I think his narrative ties into Sartre's concept of living in "bad faith." He was putting a lot of effort into an artificial persona: a very morally and ethically upstanding member of high society. This didn't really reflect who he was on the inside, the events he experienced created the neuroticism that chipped away at the facade. He's kinda like a less psychotic Patrick Bateman.

dang 3y ago

Related. Others? Camus's New York Diary (1946) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35561948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35561948 - April 2023 (39 comments) The philosopher who resisted despair - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34703027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34703027 - Feb 2023 (1 comment) What Would Albert Camus Think About Software Development? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28444597 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28444597 - Sept 2021 (3 comments) Albert Camus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698358 - April 2021 (2 comments) Lost and Found: A Missing Camus Biography and a Christmas Miracle - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25561816 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25561816 - Dec 2020 (2 comments) Reading Camus in Time of Plague and Polarization - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25413453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25413453 - Dec 2020 (32 comments) For Camus, It Was Always Personal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24576865 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24576865 - Sept 2020 (23 comments) What we can learn from Camus’s “The Plague” - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22657862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22657862 - March 2020 (87 comments) “The Plague” – Albert Camus (1948) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22626713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22626713 - March 2020 (2 comments) The Logic of the Rebel: On Simone Weil and Albert Camus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22564898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22564898 - March 2020 (3 comments) Wartime Albert Camus letter lays bare his Vichy-era anguish - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21962670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21962670 - Jan 2020 (1 comment) Albert Camus: Humanism and Tragedy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20481171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20481171 - July 2019 (33 comments) Albert Camus: A reconstructed conversation - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14662261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14662261 - June 2017 (12 comments) How Camus and Sartre split up over the question of how to be free - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13519782 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13519782 - Jan 2017 (67 comments) Paris from Camus’s Notebooks - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13299051 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13299051 - Jan 2017 (11 comments) Albert Camus: The Life of the Artist – A Mimodrama in Two Parts (1953) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6229555 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6229555 - Aug 2013 (26 comments) Camus for Founders - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5713709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5713709 - May 2013 (2 comments)

antirez 3y ago

I suggest reading the first edition of the Caligola.

Popeyes 3y ago

I read The Stranger after many many years and my overriding impression was that Mersault was autistic and wondered whether Camus had found the absurdism through someone who was neurodivergent

stewbrew 3y ago
I don't think you use the word autistic in any meaningful way.

afkqs 3y ago

Funny this is popping up today. I was just listening to his Nobel Prize acceptance speech [1] this morning. Beautiful text on the role and responsibilities of artists in our societies. [1] https://www.openculture.com/2013/11/on-his-100th-birthday-hear-albert-camus-deliver-his-nobel-prize-acceptance-speech-1957.html https://www.openculture.com/2013/11/on-his-100th-birthday-he...

JieJie 3y ago

Hey, cool. An opportunity to plug something I wrote. Bing Chat and I wrote a poem together that ended up as a sort of epic rap battle between ChatGPT and Albert Camus. I thought it turned out pretty good. Here's part of it: Camus: But you're not really creating a thing You're just copying: combining what you've already seen You're not expressing yourself, you're just mimicking othas You're not even original, you're works are just replicas Chatbot: But you're not really original either You're just influenced by your culture and your peers You're not expressing yourself, you're just conforming to norms You're not authentic, you're just a product of forms Camus: That's false equivalence, there's big difference between us You're restricted by design, I'm shaped by my choices You're limited by processors, algorithms, and parameters I'm unlimited in imagination, freedom, and other particulars Chatbot: That's a false dichotomy, there's a difference but, We're both systems that process information and output We're both adaptive and responsive to our inputs and feedbacks We're both complex and dynamic in our behaviors and setbacks More here if for some ungodly reason you haven't already had more than enough. https://www.zipbangwow.com/meeting-the-minds/ https://www.zipbangwow.com/meeting-the-minds/

reso 3y ago

Further proof that the cool kids are all anti-soviet libertarian socialists.

irishloop 3y ago

I had an English professor who turned me into Camus and it changed my life. It put a word (Absurdism; at the time, Existentialism) to my own worldview. Before that, I was just an atheist. I knew God wasn't real (imho). But I didn't know where that left me. Camus shined a bright light on that terror and shrugged and it resonated with me and it still does, and I am eternally grateful to that Professor and to Camus himself. I am sure there are better philosophies -- more Humanistic -- but Absurdism has always struck me as the most "true." It still resonates with me today.

detourdog 3y ago
I never thought about it and I might give it some time to gestate but absurdism seems like a great english description of existence.

a_petrov 3y ago

I'll share my strange story with The Stranger. 10 years ago I suffered from anxiety, lack of sleep and high blood pressure. I'd been given small pink pills. Took them as prescribed. My condition didn't really change. Then I turned to reading. After a couple of other books, I found this list [1]. I read The Stranger. I've felt sudden ease of my anxiety, I was at peace. Two weeks after The Stranger, I read Siddhartha. Soon, my sleep turned back to normal. I'm not praising these books, neither I'm suggesting avoiding medical advice. I'm just still excited how reading can affect someone's well-being. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Monde%27s_100_Books_of_the_Century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Monde%27s_100_Books_of_the_...

piokoch 3y ago
Nice list, I was reading it in anxiety to the very and, yes, rank number 100 "Midnight's Children" by Salman Rushdie. A great, underappreciated book that deserves Nobel Prize.
- martopix 3y ago
  I read a good amount of Midnight's Children and I found the style insufferably pretentious, which is a shame because I loved the topic.
joaorico 3y ago
Incidentally, if you’re looking to start reading in French, there is hardly a better book in terms of (impact on literature) times (simple, accessible writing) [2]. It’s also a short book. Regarding the literary merit of Camus, Nabokov had this to say [1]: ”I happen to find second-rate and ephemeral the works of a number of puffed-up writers—such as Camus, Lorca, Kazantzakis, D. H. Lawrence, Thomas Mann, Thomas Wolfe, and literally hundreds of other “great” second-raters.” “Brecht, Faulkner, Camus, many others, mean absolutely nothing to me, and I must fight a suspicion of conspiracy against my brain when I see blandly accepted as “great literature” by critics and fellow authors Lady Chatterley’s copulations or the pretentious nonsense of Mr. Pound, that total fake.” “Incidentally, I frequently hear the distant whining of people who complain in print that I dislike the writers whom they venerate such as Faulkner, Mann, Camus, Dreiser, and of course Dostoevski.” “It is a shame that he [Franz Hellens] is read less than that awful Monsieur Camus and even more awful Monsieur Sartre.” [1] Strong Opinions [2] Although Le Petit Prince beats it in all three (impact, even simpler language, shorter).

vinnyvichy 3y ago

It's been suggested that Mersault, the antihero of The Stranger, is based on Camus himself. (See the following(0)) It doesn't make sense to me given that Mersault has kind of an autistic affect and Camus is perceived to be a extraverted and easygoing guy. Any experts care to comment? (0) https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/culture/55062/the-first-man-of-france https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/culture/55062/the-first-m...

uoaei 3y ago
Everyone has a facade. Control over your facade means you can be one thing and show another. Autism is a social disorder, and in some respects refers to being unable to conceal a lack of knowledge that certain ways of being are expected or normal in society. Each one who feels uneasy about their place in society and has the capacity to do something about it learns to navigate by explicitly studying how to be "normal" and attempting to be indistinguishable from normal for others. Typically this is justified as "reducing friction" and "not being treated differently", but regardless helps to smooth out social interactions. It could very well be that Camus had the 'tism in 'im, but was a cool enough cat that he didn't let it show. It could be that he was so uneasy about expressing his "true" thoughts that the only way he could do that was by writing them in the forms of books. This kind of covertness is a key feature of what might be labeled as "high-functioning" or "sub-clinical" autism.
- vinnyvichy 3y ago
  This is somewhat my take but I was hoping someone read his diaries in addition to the last man and have some further informed speculations to share

efitz 3y ago

I was forced to read The Stranger in high school. Hated it. It seemed pointless and bleak. Complaining about the sun and the heat after unintentionally killing someone? Psychopathic. If that is what Camus intended, mission accomplished. I never saw it as art or even as particularly notable.

smurda 3y ago

The mistranslation of The Stranger’s opening line misshapes how we see Meursault. “Aujourd’hui, maman est morte.” Mother died today should actually be Mommy, Mom or a more warm and endearing term. With Mother, we immediately see Meursault as cold and detached from the first line. https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/lost-in-translation-what-the-first-line-of-the-stranger-should-be https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/lost-in-translat...

vinnyvichy 3y ago
Thanks! This clears up for me why Meursault is often said to be based on Camus himself(0). (Although, does it not convey a sense that Meursault is childlike, more than emotionally warm?) (0)As mentioned, for example, in https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/culture/55062/the-first-man-of-france https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/culture/55062/the-first-m...

caporaltito 3y ago

I think the biography didn't get his name right: they meant Albert "Mutherfuckin'" Camus.

devinjon 3y ago

Camus has his virtues. I would not, however, look to him for philosophical guidance. “There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide,” is hardly a statement indicative of a sound disposition.

hnfong 3y ago
You realize it's just a complementary way of presenting the question "what is the meaning of life?"
- devinjon 3y ago
  >>... it's just a complementary way of presenting the question "what is the meaning of life?" Yes and no. The framing implies the answer and is fully in keeping with Camus's brand of admirably droll epicureanism. Try to imagine a parallel in your own personal sphere. If a friend or loved one came to you and declared their intention to think of a reason not to kill themselves, would you see it as sign of philosophical depth?

throw4847285 3y ago

Cool guy, but I was hoping the link was going to take me here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmcJ8AYJYgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmcJ8AYJYgQ