15 ms·

I also find it consistently obnoxious that there is essentially no way to say "My driver was fine, but your platform did something stupid" when leaving feedback

I also find it consistently obnoxious that there is essentially no way to say "My driver was fine, but your platform did something stupid" when leaving feedback. At least, not without jumping through a million hoops. The arrogance of our industry is tiresome. I took a ride in SF a while ago and it predicted a 3 minute pick up time which turned out to be 25 minutes - no fault of the driver, and the only way I could complain about this was to click through like 4 levels of "other issue" and then jump through hoops sending emails back and forth with support.

ryandrake 3y ago
Pick up time predictions are garbage, because ride shares allow cancelations. Last time I used a ride share, I had eight drivers accept and then cancel on me. The predicted departure time was always "8 minutes away" and then "looking for another driver" over and over. I probably waited an hour.
- jazzyjackson 3y ago
  Talking to a driver about this I was told that the platform is always re-routing drivers to maximize revenue for lyft, so when the app says "finding you another driver", it's not the driver that canceled, it's the platform decided that driver was better off, revenue wise, to complete a different fare. The fact that this is opaque to the end user just means we get mad at the workers and not the corporation, classic.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    The fact that OP can see "finding another driver" 8 times suggests that perhaps there is some prioritization system, and OP was low priority - such that if any other request came in before him, then the driver would be re-routed.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      Possible that those shitty tips you've been leaving are adding up in other ways? I live in a neighborhood that borders a part of town that is accepted as a "bad" part of town and is often confused as being part of that part of town. I have only ever not had the "finding another driver" twice from my house, and originally assumed it was location location location. I had a guest stay with me last summer, and they never received that treatment which led me to believe it was an account thing. We'd test by requesting a car at the same time. Their rates were cheaper, and they never had a new driver issue.
      - londons_explore 3y ago
        It would make perfect sense to have some ML model which predicts which customers will be most profitable, and treat those guys well to improve retention amongst that client set.
        29083011397778 3y ago
        (Regarding Uber, not Lyft, but...) It would also make perfect sense to predict which customers are investigators in areas Uber is illegal, and avoid them. Which they did [0]. I would be shocked if they weren't giving more profitable customers higher priority and better treatment. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/03/uber-secret-program-greyball-resignation-ed-baker https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/03/uber-secr...
        darkwizard42 3y ago
        Forget ML, Lyft can tell if you are a more profitable / more engaged customer through your usage of Lyft Pink, which explicitly offers Priority Pickup. They are transparent about getting you a driver sooner, for cheaper, and I guess the subscription you pay for drives the value.
      - justrealist 3y ago
        Uber used to never allow drivers to rate the riders after the tipping was complete. Not sure if that's still the flow.
    - minhazm 3y ago
      It's much simpler than that. Drivers accept and then they cancel the ride themselves if they don't like the destination or the earnings. Normally you would penalize those drivers but I imagine with Lyft losing market share they likely can't afford to penalize drivers all that much.
      - humanistbot 3y ago
        No, drivers don't see the destination until they arrive and the trip begins. I'm often on one side of the Bay Area trying to get to the other and had many drivers pull up, then cancel or try to get me to cancel when they see I'm going across the Bay.
        shawabawa3 3y ago
        My assumption was that most drivers are using 3+ different apps, so if they get an Uber request while they're driving a Lyft route they just don't accept it, hence the bouncing around "finding another driver" because all the drivers are already busy
        panarky 3y ago
        Also, riders are using two or three different apps, so if Uber promises a 2-minute wait and then confirms with a 6-minute wait and Lyft is promising a 3-minute wait, cancel the Uber ride and now that driver is available again.
        mulmen 3y ago
        Doesn’t that incur a cancellation fee?
        1_1xdev1 3y ago
        Usually not in my experience, as long as it’s within a short time (5 minutes?) since booking.
        3y ago
- KMnO4 3y ago
  I had a ride from YVR airport where no less than 30 drivers[0] cancelled on me. I would get the notification that the driver was on their way, tap it, and then catch a brief one second flash of the driver before they disappeared and I was back in the queue. [0]: I’m sure it would be much more, but I gave up and took the train instead
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    At airports, its often much better to walk just outside the boundary of the airport. Airports often have special rules, pickup fees, etc. Drivers don't want to pay an $8 fee just to make a loss on your journey. As soon as you're a few yards out of the airport, none of that applies and a driver will be happy to take you.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      >its often much better to walk just outside the boundary of the airport are you serious? what airports do you visit where you can do this as a suggestion without laughing. It's like telling the freshmen that there's a pool on the school roof. even something as small like a Bob Hope in Burbank would be difficult. Most airports do not consider pedestrian traffic to the edge of their properties. I've done it once at that airport because my office was pretty much next door to the Fry's across the street. still made me regret that decision. I'm now in Dallas and even Lovefield pedestrian traffic past getting to the parking area is non-existent. From DFW? Forget it. Much like your suggestion
      - ghaff 3y ago
        Walking out of an airport of any size (and even many/most smaller commercial airports) is between impossible and taking your life in your hands given that sidewalks/crosswalks/etc. are largely lacking. Most commercial airports just don't contemplate pedestrians walking in and out. It might be possible to walk to East Boston from Logan airport though I'm not sure how--and that's an airport that's basically right in the city.
- pimlottc 3y ago
  > Pick up time predictions are garbage This boils me to no end. Google Maps estimates often make rideshare look like a timesaver compared to transit, but when you add five, ten, even fifteen minutes to the pickup estimate, it really changes things.
- balderdash 3y ago
  I feel like the ride shares need to commit to firm pricing and pickup times at booking, ride is discounted $1/min for every minute over the estimate.
- m463 3y ago
  I wonder if you could penalize for cancellations somehow. Maybe add a cost to accept a ride, which is waived at pickup. (I don't know how things work)
- mustacheemperor 3y ago
  It’s especially rich when Lyft gives you this treatment after you’ve selected the more expensive “rapid pickup” option. Nothing hits quite like the tech company gaslighting experience of being told “Just a moment…Just a few more seconds…” for upwards of five minutes by an app eager to discourage you from canceling your $5 extra “three minute pickup.”
tedivm 3y ago
Lyft's pick up estimates are basically made up as far as I can tell.
fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
I think for users who comparison shop between Uber and Lyft, the pickup ETA is part of each app’s bid. Putting a lower price costs them money, while putting a lower ETA is free.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  This... As soon as you click "reserve", you're locked in...
- balderdash 3y ago
  100% massively detracts from my willingness to pay for their services …
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
    This is a case where a positive AB test result could push you in the wrong direction. It might take a long-term holdout group to find the negative effect, and those can be hard to manage.
- panarky 3y ago
  Which is why Lyft does that annoying 59-second countdown until you can see your driver's details and actual wait time, so you have a sunk cost to discourage you from switching to Uber when the actual wait time is longer than promised.
bsimpson 3y ago
Lyft support is inconsistent. Sometimes, you'll report a minor issue and get an over-the-top "OMG - WE'RE SO SORRY! HERE'S FREE MONEY AND YOU'LL NEVER BE PAIRED WITH THIS DRIVER AGAIN!" Other times, you'll report an actual problem, like being charged more than advertised, and they'll do nothing to remediate. After being charged more than expected on a couple recent rides, I basically stopped using Lyft.
- throwway120385 3y ago
  If it's anything like AirBnB, it probably depends on whether you're getting the chipper day-shift call center or the cheap outsourced offshore call center as far as what kind of support you get. My wife and I landed in a cockroach-infested but very beautiful condo through AirBnB once and the night shift guy basically accused me of being used to living with cockroaches as a business traveler and that one or two should be expected. I had to offer to send him video of me spraying the walls of the kitchen with roach spray with tens of wriggling bodies of various instar stage falling onto the counter before he would even commit to looking in to it. I called the same support number the morning after and the support people were all very accommodating. Called them one more time that afternoon to confirm that our payments were refunded and got the same treatment as the previous night. This experience is one of the reasons I never use AirBnB for anything anymore. Their support was awful at the exact moment I needed them to offer me any option other than sleeping in our rental car on the beach.
  - bsimpson 3y ago
    I have an Airbnb support horror story too. I reported the space being poorly cleaned first thing in the morning (I had arrived at 1 AM). They asked if I preferred a phone call or chat. I didn't want to spend a morning on the phone with them, so I chose chat. Every 20 minutes for the next few days, I got "Hi, I'm NAME_HERE, and I'm taking over your case!" The names changed, but they never actually _did_ anything beyond "taking over" the case. I felt like I was in a Seinfeld episode. One of them then decided the best resolution was to tell the host I'd complained about the cleanliness (without including me at all). I started getting nasty messages from the host, who thought I'd happily stayed there for 4 days and then spontaneously opened a complaint. So now on top of sleeping in a gross Airbnb, I was getting constant notifications on my phone of the host calling me all sorts of nasty names. I opened a _new_ ticket and chose phone support to finally get a hold of somebody. Her accent told me she was in an offshore call center, but she was helpful in getting it resolved. I think they had me book a hotel for the remainder of the days and reimbursed me, or something to that effect. After I checked out, the host filed a frivolous damages claim against me. I clicked the "not my problem" button and thankfully never heard about it again. I will never, ever use Airbnb chat support again. Was perhaps the worst customer service experience I've ever had.
yellow_postit 3y ago
Lived near a bridge and both Lyft and Uber would endlessly try to have drivers end the drive on the bridge instead of routing off it.
nharada 3y ago
Totally agree, I just had this happen to me two days ago. The Uber app bugged out and left me with a fare that was double what I was quoted, and there was basically no way to get in touch with Uber about it. You know how often support chatbots offer a "talk to a human" option? Not Uber. Just links to articles about how I'm holding it wrong.
- BizarreByte 3y ago
  It’s worth taking to Twitter to complain in those situations. I’d love if we didn’t half to, but I’ve found most companies help when you make your issue public. Maybe Uber isn’t a company who will care, but most are.
balderdash 3y ago
This - I find 2/3rds of my issues are platform vs driver. And there is no way to penalize the platform vs the driver + the driver then deals with the aftermath of a pissed off customer even if they were great. It would be as easy as having two star ratings, “how was your driver?”, and “how was your whole experience?”.
dahdum 3y ago
After ten years of using Lyft/Uber for airport trips instead of driving I’ve decided to go back to park/fly companies. This past week I had a scheduled and confirmed pickup with Lyft, driver cancelled 2 min before pickup and it took 5 more “driver found” messages and 50 minutes before I switched to Uber and got picked up in 10 minutes. Uber has done the same in the past, so they aren’t reliable either. It was a $110 fare trip. I’m beginning to despise Lyft/Uber as much as the cabs they replaced.

ryandrake 3y ago

Pick up time predictions are garbage, because ride shares allow cancelations. Last time I used a ride share, I had eight drivers accept and then cancel on me. The predicted departure time was always "8 minutes away" and then "looking for another driver" over and over. I probably waited an hour.

jazzyjackson 3y ago
Talking to a driver about this I was told that the platform is always re-routing drivers to maximize revenue for lyft, so when the app says "finding you another driver", it's not the driver that canceled, it's the platform decided that driver was better off, revenue wise, to complete a different fare. The fact that this is opaque to the end user just means we get mad at the workers and not the corporation, classic.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  The fact that OP can see "finding another driver" 8 times suggests that perhaps there is some prioritization system, and OP was low priority - such that if any other request came in before him, then the driver would be re-routed.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    Possible that those shitty tips you've been leaving are adding up in other ways? I live in a neighborhood that borders a part of town that is accepted as a "bad" part of town and is often confused as being part of that part of town. I have only ever not had the "finding another driver" twice from my house, and originally assumed it was location location location. I had a guest stay with me last summer, and they never received that treatment which led me to believe it was an account thing. We'd test by requesting a car at the same time. Their rates were cheaper, and they never had a new driver issue.
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      It would make perfect sense to have some ML model which predicts which customers will be most profitable, and treat those guys well to improve retention amongst that client set.
      - 29083011397778 3y ago
        (Regarding Uber, not Lyft, but...) It would also make perfect sense to predict which customers are investigators in areas Uber is illegal, and avoid them. Which they did [0]. I would be shocked if they weren't giving more profitable customers higher priority and better treatment. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/03/uber-secret-program-greyball-resignation-ed-baker https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/03/uber-secr...
      - darkwizard42 3y ago
        Forget ML, Lyft can tell if you are a more profitable / more engaged customer through your usage of Lyft Pink, which explicitly offers Priority Pickup. They are transparent about getting you a driver sooner, for cheaper, and I guess the subscription you pay for drives the value.
    - justrealist 3y ago
      Uber used to never allow drivers to rate the riders after the tipping was complete. Not sure if that's still the flow.
  - minhazm 3y ago
    It's much simpler than that. Drivers accept and then they cancel the ride themselves if they don't like the destination or the earnings. Normally you would penalize those drivers but I imagine with Lyft losing market share they likely can't afford to penalize drivers all that much.
    - humanistbot 3y ago
      No, drivers don't see the destination until they arrive and the trip begins. I'm often on one side of the Bay Area trying to get to the other and had many drivers pull up, then cancel or try to get me to cancel when they see I'm going across the Bay.
      - shawabawa3 3y ago
        My assumption was that most drivers are using 3+ different apps, so if they get an Uber request while they're driving a Lyft route they just don't accept it, hence the bouncing around "finding another driver" because all the drivers are already busy
        panarky 3y ago
        Also, riders are using two or three different apps, so if Uber promises a 2-minute wait and then confirms with a 6-minute wait and Lyft is promising a 3-minute wait, cancel the Uber ride and now that driver is available again.
        mulmen 3y ago
        Doesn’t that incur a cancellation fee?
        1_1xdev1 3y ago
        Usually not in my experience, as long as it’s within a short time (5 minutes?) since booking.
      - 3y ago
KMnO4 3y ago
I had a ride from YVR airport where no less than 30 drivers[0] cancelled on me. I would get the notification that the driver was on their way, tap it, and then catch a brief one second flash of the driver before they disappeared and I was back in the queue. [0]: I’m sure it would be much more, but I gave up and took the train instead
- londons_explore 3y ago
  At airports, its often much better to walk just outside the boundary of the airport. Airports often have special rules, pickup fees, etc. Drivers don't want to pay an $8 fee just to make a loss on your journey. As soon as you're a few yards out of the airport, none of that applies and a driver will be happy to take you.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    >its often much better to walk just outside the boundary of the airport are you serious? what airports do you visit where you can do this as a suggestion without laughing. It's like telling the freshmen that there's a pool on the school roof. even something as small like a Bob Hope in Burbank would be difficult. Most airports do not consider pedestrian traffic to the edge of their properties. I've done it once at that airport because my office was pretty much next door to the Fry's across the street. still made me regret that decision. I'm now in Dallas and even Lovefield pedestrian traffic past getting to the parking area is non-existent. From DFW? Forget it. Much like your suggestion
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Walking out of an airport of any size (and even many/most smaller commercial airports) is between impossible and taking your life in your hands given that sidewalks/crosswalks/etc. are largely lacking. Most commercial airports just don't contemplate pedestrians walking in and out. It might be possible to walk to East Boston from Logan airport though I'm not sure how--and that's an airport that's basically right in the city.
pimlottc 3y ago
> Pick up time predictions are garbage This boils me to no end. Google Maps estimates often make rideshare look like a timesaver compared to transit, but when you add five, ten, even fifteen minutes to the pickup estimate, it really changes things.
balderdash 3y ago
I feel like the ride shares need to commit to firm pricing and pickup times at booking, ride is discounted $1/min for every minute over the estimate.
m463 3y ago
I wonder if you could penalize for cancellations somehow. Maybe add a cost to accept a ride, which is waived at pickup. (I don't know how things work)
mustacheemperor 3y ago
It’s especially rich when Lyft gives you this treatment after you’ve selected the more expensive “rapid pickup” option. Nothing hits quite like the tech company gaslighting experience of being told “Just a moment…Just a few more seconds…” for upwards of five minutes by an app eager to discourage you from canceling your $5 extra “three minute pickup.”

tedivm 3y ago

Lyft's pick up estimates are basically made up as far as I can tell.

fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago

I think for users who comparison shop between Uber and Lyft, the pickup ETA is part of each app’s bid. Putting a lower price costs them money, while putting a lower ETA is free.

londons_explore 3y ago
This... As soon as you click "reserve", you're locked in...
balderdash 3y ago
100% massively detracts from my willingness to pay for their services …
- fshbbdssbbgdd 3y ago
  This is a case where a positive AB test result could push you in the wrong direction. It might take a long-term holdout group to find the negative effect, and those can be hard to manage.
panarky 3y ago
Which is why Lyft does that annoying 59-second countdown until you can see your driver's details and actual wait time, so you have a sunk cost to discourage you from switching to Uber when the actual wait time is longer than promised.

bsimpson 3y ago

Lyft support is inconsistent. Sometimes, you'll report a minor issue and get an over-the-top "OMG - WE'RE SO SORRY! HERE'S FREE MONEY AND YOU'LL NEVER BE PAIRED WITH THIS DRIVER AGAIN!" Other times, you'll report an actual problem, like being charged more than advertised, and they'll do nothing to remediate. After being charged more than expected on a couple recent rides, I basically stopped using Lyft.

throwway120385 3y ago
If it's anything like AirBnB, it probably depends on whether you're getting the chipper day-shift call center or the cheap outsourced offshore call center as far as what kind of support you get. My wife and I landed in a cockroach-infested but very beautiful condo through AirBnB once and the night shift guy basically accused me of being used to living with cockroaches as a business traveler and that one or two should be expected. I had to offer to send him video of me spraying the walls of the kitchen with roach spray with tens of wriggling bodies of various instar stage falling onto the counter before he would even commit to looking in to it. I called the same support number the morning after and the support people were all very accommodating. Called them one more time that afternoon to confirm that our payments were refunded and got the same treatment as the previous night. This experience is one of the reasons I never use AirBnB for anything anymore. Their support was awful at the exact moment I needed them to offer me any option other than sleeping in our rental car on the beach.
- bsimpson 3y ago
  I have an Airbnb support horror story too. I reported the space being poorly cleaned first thing in the morning (I had arrived at 1 AM). They asked if I preferred a phone call or chat. I didn't want to spend a morning on the phone with them, so I chose chat. Every 20 minutes for the next few days, I got "Hi, I'm NAME_HERE, and I'm taking over your case!" The names changed, but they never actually _did_ anything beyond "taking over" the case. I felt like I was in a Seinfeld episode. One of them then decided the best resolution was to tell the host I'd complained about the cleanliness (without including me at all). I started getting nasty messages from the host, who thought I'd happily stayed there for 4 days and then spontaneously opened a complaint. So now on top of sleeping in a gross Airbnb, I was getting constant notifications on my phone of the host calling me all sorts of nasty names. I opened a _new_ ticket and chose phone support to finally get a hold of somebody. Her accent told me she was in an offshore call center, but she was helpful in getting it resolved. I think they had me book a hotel for the remainder of the days and reimbursed me, or something to that effect. After I checked out, the host filed a frivolous damages claim against me. I clicked the "not my problem" button and thankfully never heard about it again. I will never, ever use Airbnb chat support again. Was perhaps the worst customer service experience I've ever had.

yellow_postit 3y ago

Lived near a bridge and both Lyft and Uber would endlessly try to have drivers end the drive on the bridge instead of routing off it.

nharada 3y ago

Totally agree, I just had this happen to me two days ago. The Uber app bugged out and left me with a fare that was double what I was quoted, and there was basically no way to get in touch with Uber about it. You know how often support chatbots offer a "talk to a human" option? Not Uber. Just links to articles about how I'm holding it wrong.

BizarreByte 3y ago
It’s worth taking to Twitter to complain in those situations. I’d love if we didn’t half to, but I’ve found most companies help when you make your issue public. Maybe Uber isn’t a company who will care, but most are.

balderdash 3y ago

This - I find 2/3rds of my issues are platform vs driver. And there is no way to penalize the platform vs the driver + the driver then deals with the aftermath of a pissed off customer even if they were great. It would be as easy as having two star ratings, “how was your driver?”, and “how was your whole experience?”.

dahdum 3y ago

After ten years of using Lyft/Uber for airport trips instead of driving I’ve decided to go back to park/fly companies. This past week I had a scheduled and confirmed pickup with Lyft, driver cancelled 2 min before pickup and it took 5 more “driver found” messages and 50 minutes before I switched to Uber and got picked up in 10 minutes. Uber has done the same in the past, so they aren’t reliable either. It was a $110 fare trip. I’m beginning to despise Lyft/Uber as much as the cabs they replaced.