6 ms·

I can sacrifice my ego through meditation and acts of charity/volunteer work. No need to risk half of my current assets and future income on the whims of some p

I can sacrifice my ego through meditation and acts of charity/volunteer work. No need to risk half of my current assets and future income on the whims of some potentially capricious other person, who probably doesn't like me very much anyways. Good luck to you, however.

DirectorKrennic 3y ago
[flagged]
- ameminator 3y ago
  Every week 2 hours at a local organization. There are other ways in which i give back to my family and my community, which i don't intend to discuss here. Further, on this point, i do not need to justify these to you or any internet stranger. Who are you to police others and their morality? I never said what gender i was or what gender i was interested in. I do know that i would probably earn a higher salary than my partner, which would disfavor me in a divorce. Perhaps it is you with the prejudice, assuming that women would earn less? Finally, people in general are capricious. People change all the time. It seems like a large gamble to make on another person, based essentially how they feel. Either way, maybe you should examine your own self before judging others. Humility has intrinsic value in and of itself and can be found in many places.
  - personperson 3y ago
    I’m pretty pro family but I have to admit you just absolutely smoked ‘em
  - jackvalentine 3y ago
    > …which i don't intend to discuss here. Further, on this point, i do not need to justify these to you or any internet stranger. Who are you to police others and their morality? Pretty rich to come in so hot against something and then when questioned freak out like that.
  - insamniac 3y ago
    Were you actually able to convince yourself with all that or no?
  - emodendroket 3y ago
    Your gender is not really in doubt scrolling through your post history.
bscphil 3y ago
> No need to risk half of my current assets and future income Most people see being in a position of vulnerability with respect to another human being whom they trust as a wonderful thing, which gives them a great deal of every day happiness. You see this vulnerability as merely negative, a threat to your individualistic pursuit of wealth ("assets and income"). You have a right to live however you want, of course, but maybe consider the possibility that others are getting something valuable out of this that you've missed?
- ameminator 3y ago
  I'm certain this vulnerability does bring value to some, especially people like the original commenter. However, consider that it's possible to gain something similar in value without certain risks? My wealth is not my most important part of my life but it is valuable. Why should I risk the ability to retire, to travel as well as the security of finances, when I find so much meaning in the world already? Why do I need marriage, of all things, to another person, when I already have so much to do and see? From my perspective, it would be if i recommended to someone that wanted money to play roulette. Sure, you may win. But the odds don't seem to be in your favor and there are more dependable ways of achieving what you want, without relying on random factors outside of your control. However, i won't denigrate your way of living if you won't denigrate mine. On the contrary, I'm happy that some have found happiness and meaning even in such risky and perhaps old-fashioned ways.
  - zwaps 3y ago
    The risk of marriage is what makes the commitment meaningful. Of course, you can always substitute for marriage with other forms of commitment in partnerships, marriage is just a particular choice. In your writing, however, it rather appears to me that you do not see the value in committing to another person at all - in whatever shape or form. In that case, I would say that the desire for marriage is likely to remain an enigma to you. In rational terms, consider marriage (or another form of commitment) as a dynamic non cooperative game where a long term mutually beneficial equilibrium is reached. Briefly, imagine you meet another person to whom you actually want to commit to: you derive utility from demonstrating vulnerability under risk. This is the case, because the other person similarly commits to you. This mutual equilibrium is only possible with mutual trust. In turn, trust in the other person grows with mutual commitment. Trust is the driver of non ego behavior, shared understanding, and sensemaking. For evolutionary reasons, it also leads to a feeling of safety and reduces the impact of many day to day stressors. Of course, trust is only built up if the demonstrated commitment occurs under real risk and increases then over time, where the initial jump however determines largely the final equilibrium. The equilibrium is high utility not only due to the feeling of safety and partnership, but also because a high trust environment removes transaction costs. In turn, commitment is higher in value if the choice to deviate is meaningful, if the risk is real, if your money and income aren’t safe. If you jumped, and your partner equally jumped, both without knowing with certainty. Thus demonstrated commitment leads to a higher utility equilibrium as outlined above. I hope this game theoretic analysis indicates to you some benefits of something like marriage. Having lived both extremely independently and married, I strongly believe that my marriage equilibrium is far superior. I also know that trying to get the same benefits without commitment, that is, without taking an inherent risk on another person, would not lead to the same outcome. After all, without risk, its not really meaningful. While marriage is just one form, I strongly believe to know that today’s culture of risk aversion in partnership leads to lower utility and long term happiness. People are afraid to lose or give anything up. In turn, they will gain less. I acknowledge fully that I would not have understood the above before my marriage.
emodendroket 3y ago
Based on your post it doesn't seem to be working.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jacooper 3y ago
I heard you can avoid that, Using some kind of pre marriage financial agreement, does that actually exist? I don't livs in the U.S. so I don't know.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  pre-nups are a thing but come with strings, and are not unilaterally enforceable without certain considerations. both sides usually have to have their own lawyer -- often not cheap -- and there are often ways to break a pre-nup. state laws have an impact as well. a California pre-nup ain't the same as Kansas. they're also not really useful for many people; yeah if you've got a $4MM startup and a few assets it's good to CYA, but the average household of 2 renters and middling salary might not benefit, while both sides pay out the nose for lawyers.
thelastgallon 3y ago
This. Young people should read http://www.realworlddivorce.com/ http://www.realworlddivorce.com/
- inconceivable 3y ago
  huh. wasn't expecting to see phil greenspun at the top.
ux-app 3y ago
>No need to risk half of my current assets and future income life is risk. marriage is a great way to de-risk many aspects of your life. 2x income for only 1.3x increased expenses. Easier debt/mortgage access. Support (financial/emotional) in case of illness or income loss. >other person, who probably doesn't like me very much anyways Marrying the right person is the key (hanging out with your best friend forever is cool), and that for sure is risky/not easy.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  >marriage is a great way to de-risk many aspects of your life. 2x income for only 1.3x increased expenses Then what happens when you get married, and your spouse soon quits their job or is fired because they're a terrible employee, and you didn't see signs of this while dating? Now you have 1.3x expenses on 1x income. Worse, what if your spouse is terrible at money management? Now you have 2-3x expenses on 1-2x income. >Support (financial/emotional) in case of illness or income loss. What if your spouse only seemed to be emotionally supportive before you got married, but afterwards (or when you got sick) the facade was dropped? What if they drop you like a rock when you get sick? >Marrying the right person is the key Of course. Similarly, if someone loses the lottery, you can just tell them, "that's your own fault: you should have picked the winning ticket".
  - ux-app 3y ago
    that's a lot of what ifs. we don't live in the 50s any more. My wife and I were living together for 8 years before we got married. That sure would have been one doozy of a long con if she turned around and suddenly became a totally different person once the ink dried on the marriage certificate. Picking the right person is not the same as buying a lottery ticket, lol.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      An 8-year trial run is completely unrealistic for most couples, especially if they want to have kids.
lapcat 3y ago
> who probably doesn't like me very much anyways This feels like a straw man, or straw woman, as the case may be. Why would you even consider marrying someone who probably doesn't like you very much? And why would they consider marrying you? (He says, fresh off watching the finale of Succession.)
- ameminator 3y ago
  It's a personal judgement based on personal experience. I asked those same questions before deciding that maybe dating or marriage was not for me. However, you should make your own judgement call based off of your own experiences. Just be aware that something between 40 and 45% of first time marriages fail in North America (depending on the study).
  - lapcat 3y ago
    > It's a personal judgement based on personal experience. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying that nobody likes you? If so, then maybe that's a "you" problem and not a "them" problem... > I asked those same questions before deciding that maybe dating or marriage was not for me. Forget marriage for a second, you don't even want to date? If so, I'm not sure you're really one to be giving advice here, to people who are interested in having relationships.
    - ameminator 3y ago
      Exactly, you should make your own judgement, based on your personal circumstances, including how agreeable you are. In terms of dating, when I engage in that, I aim for pure companionship. It always struck me as wrong to use another person, either for intimacy or even as an emotional crutch. Relationships, when they do happen, usually last quite a while but may be a different experience for the other person involved, from their previous relationships. However, these are personal anecdata. Is it so hard to look at the statistics and results and make your own conclusion?
      - lapcat 3y ago
jahewson 3y ago
Do you… attract capricious people?
pkphilip 3y ago
I think it is more than just about "ego". I think we are conditioned to be self-seeking.. selfish individuals. Being married forces one to look beyond one's own comfort zone, own desires etc to prioritise the interests of others in the family. For instance, when you have a spouse who is not well, you will need to take care of them - even if that means suspending your meditation session or saying no to something like volunteering at a shelter which may give you a sense of meaning and purpose. Marriage is not for everyone because it requires dying to one's own self a bit. So it is not really a path to self actualisation. But is definitely a way of putting oneself in a position where one is no longer focused on one own's progress psychologically, emotionally, financially etc and others and their interests become more important. So if you are looking at marriage as a way of improving oneself, you may be in for a reality shock. That may happen but it happens at some cost and isn't the point of getting married. Does it sound masochistic? well, on the surface it does. But it is part of being a mature person for a large part of humanity and is often a hard path but there are others who have chosen celibacy - which may infact be even harder. Having said that, having someone by your side who you genuinely care for and who cares for you and who you can grow old with is quite a treat.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

DirectorKrennic 3y ago

[flagged]

ameminator 3y ago
Every week 2 hours at a local organization. There are other ways in which i give back to my family and my community, which i don't intend to discuss here. Further, on this point, i do not need to justify these to you or any internet stranger. Who are you to police others and their morality? I never said what gender i was or what gender i was interested in. I do know that i would probably earn a higher salary than my partner, which would disfavor me in a divorce. Perhaps it is you with the prejudice, assuming that women would earn less? Finally, people in general are capricious. People change all the time. It seems like a large gamble to make on another person, based essentially how they feel. Either way, maybe you should examine your own self before judging others. Humility has intrinsic value in and of itself and can be found in many places.
- personperson 3y ago
  I’m pretty pro family but I have to admit you just absolutely smoked ‘em
- jackvalentine 3y ago
  > …which i don't intend to discuss here. Further, on this point, i do not need to justify these to you or any internet stranger. Who are you to police others and their morality? Pretty rich to come in so hot against something and then when questioned freak out like that.
- insamniac 3y ago
  Were you actually able to convince yourself with all that or no?
- emodendroket 3y ago
  Your gender is not really in doubt scrolling through your post history.

bscphil 3y ago

> No need to risk half of my current assets and future income Most people see being in a position of vulnerability with respect to another human being whom they trust as a wonderful thing, which gives them a great deal of every day happiness. You see this vulnerability as merely negative, a threat to your individualistic pursuit of wealth ("assets and income"). You have a right to live however you want, of course, but maybe consider the possibility that others are getting something valuable out of this that you've missed?

ameminator 3y ago
I'm certain this vulnerability does bring value to some, especially people like the original commenter. However, consider that it's possible to gain something similar in value without certain risks? My wealth is not my most important part of my life but it is valuable. Why should I risk the ability to retire, to travel as well as the security of finances, when I find so much meaning in the world already? Why do I need marriage, of all things, to another person, when I already have so much to do and see? From my perspective, it would be if i recommended to someone that wanted money to play roulette. Sure, you may win. But the odds don't seem to be in your favor and there are more dependable ways of achieving what you want, without relying on random factors outside of your control. However, i won't denigrate your way of living if you won't denigrate mine. On the contrary, I'm happy that some have found happiness and meaning even in such risky and perhaps old-fashioned ways.
- zwaps 3y ago
  The risk of marriage is what makes the commitment meaningful. Of course, you can always substitute for marriage with other forms of commitment in partnerships, marriage is just a particular choice. In your writing, however, it rather appears to me that you do not see the value in committing to another person at all - in whatever shape or form. In that case, I would say that the desire for marriage is likely to remain an enigma to you. In rational terms, consider marriage (or another form of commitment) as a dynamic non cooperative game where a long term mutually beneficial equilibrium is reached. Briefly, imagine you meet another person to whom you actually want to commit to: you derive utility from demonstrating vulnerability under risk. This is the case, because the other person similarly commits to you. This mutual equilibrium is only possible with mutual trust. In turn, trust in the other person grows with mutual commitment. Trust is the driver of non ego behavior, shared understanding, and sensemaking. For evolutionary reasons, it also leads to a feeling of safety and reduces the impact of many day to day stressors. Of course, trust is only built up if the demonstrated commitment occurs under real risk and increases then over time, where the initial jump however determines largely the final equilibrium. The equilibrium is high utility not only due to the feeling of safety and partnership, but also because a high trust environment removes transaction costs. In turn, commitment is higher in value if the choice to deviate is meaningful, if the risk is real, if your money and income aren’t safe. If you jumped, and your partner equally jumped, both without knowing with certainty. Thus demonstrated commitment leads to a higher utility equilibrium as outlined above. I hope this game theoretic analysis indicates to you some benefits of something like marriage. Having lived both extremely independently and married, I strongly believe that my marriage equilibrium is far superior. I also know that trying to get the same benefits without commitment, that is, without taking an inherent risk on another person, would not lead to the same outcome. After all, without risk, its not really meaningful. While marriage is just one form, I strongly believe to know that today’s culture of risk aversion in partnership leads to lower utility and long term happiness. People are afraid to lose or give anything up. In turn, they will gain less. I acknowledge fully that I would not have understood the above before my marriage.

emodendroket 3y ago

Based on your post it doesn't seem to be working.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jacooper 3y ago

I heard you can avoid that, Using some kind of pre marriage financial agreement, does that actually exist? I don't livs in the U.S. so I don't know.

red-iron-pine 3y ago
pre-nups are a thing but come with strings, and are not unilaterally enforceable without certain considerations. both sides usually have to have their own lawyer -- often not cheap -- and there are often ways to break a pre-nup. state laws have an impact as well. a California pre-nup ain't the same as Kansas. they're also not really useful for many people; yeah if you've got a $4MM startup and a few assets it's good to CYA, but the average household of 2 renters and middling salary might not benefit, while both sides pay out the nose for lawyers.

thelastgallon 3y ago

This. Young people should read http://www.realworlddivorce.com/ http://www.realworlddivorce.com/

inconceivable 3y ago
huh. wasn't expecting to see phil greenspun at the top.

ux-app 3y ago

>No need to risk half of my current assets and future income life is risk. marriage is a great way to de-risk many aspects of your life. 2x income for only 1.3x increased expenses. Easier debt/mortgage access. Support (financial/emotional) in case of illness or income loss. >other person, who probably doesn't like me very much anyways Marrying the right person is the key (hanging out with your best friend forever is cool), and that for sure is risky/not easy.

midoridensha 3y ago
>marriage is a great way to de-risk many aspects of your life. 2x income for only 1.3x increased expenses Then what happens when you get married, and your spouse soon quits their job or is fired because they're a terrible employee, and you didn't see signs of this while dating? Now you have 1.3x expenses on 1x income. Worse, what if your spouse is terrible at money management? Now you have 2-3x expenses on 1-2x income. >Support (financial/emotional) in case of illness or income loss. What if your spouse only seemed to be emotionally supportive before you got married, but afterwards (or when you got sick) the facade was dropped? What if they drop you like a rock when you get sick? >Marrying the right person is the key Of course. Similarly, if someone loses the lottery, you can just tell them, "that's your own fault: you should have picked the winning ticket".
- ux-app 3y ago
  that's a lot of what ifs. we don't live in the 50s any more. My wife and I were living together for 8 years before we got married. That sure would have been one doozy of a long con if she turned around and suddenly became a totally different person once the ink dried on the marriage certificate. Picking the right person is not the same as buying a lottery ticket, lol.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    An 8-year trial run is completely unrealistic for most couples, especially if they want to have kids.

lapcat 3y ago

> who probably doesn't like me very much anyways This feels like a straw man, or straw woman, as the case may be. Why would you even consider marrying someone who probably doesn't like you very much? And why would they consider marrying you? (He says, fresh off watching the finale of Succession.)

ameminator 3y ago
It's a personal judgement based on personal experience. I asked those same questions before deciding that maybe dating or marriage was not for me. However, you should make your own judgement call based off of your own experiences. Just be aware that something between 40 and 45% of first time marriages fail in North America (depending on the study).
- lapcat 3y ago
  > It's a personal judgement based on personal experience. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying that nobody likes you? If so, then maybe that's a "you" problem and not a "them" problem... > I asked those same questions before deciding that maybe dating or marriage was not for me. Forget marriage for a second, you don't even want to date? If so, I'm not sure you're really one to be giving advice here, to people who are interested in having relationships.
  - ameminator 3y ago
    Exactly, you should make your own judgement, based on your personal circumstances, including how agreeable you are. In terms of dating, when I engage in that, I aim for pure companionship. It always struck me as wrong to use another person, either for intimacy or even as an emotional crutch. Relationships, when they do happen, usually last quite a while but may be a different experience for the other person involved, from their previous relationships. However, these are personal anecdata. Is it so hard to look at the statistics and results and make your own conclusion?
    - lapcat 3y ago

jahewson 3y ago

Do you… attract capricious people?

pkphilip 3y ago

I think it is more than just about "ego". I think we are conditioned to be self-seeking.. selfish individuals. Being married forces one to look beyond one's own comfort zone, own desires etc to prioritise the interests of others in the family. For instance, when you have a spouse who is not well, you will need to take care of them - even if that means suspending your meditation session or saying no to something like volunteering at a shelter which may give you a sense of meaning and purpose. Marriage is not for everyone because it requires dying to one's own self a bit. So it is not really a path to self actualisation. But is definitely a way of putting oneself in a position where one is no longer focused on one own's progress psychologically, emotionally, financially etc and others and their interests become more important. So if you are looking at marriage as a way of improving oneself, you may be in for a reality shock. That may happen but it happens at some cost and isn't the point of getting married. Does it sound masochistic? well, on the surface it does. But it is part of being a mature person for a large part of humanity and is often a hard path but there are others who have chosen celibacy - which may infact be even harder. Having said that, having someone by your side who you genuinely care for and who cares for you and who you can grow old with is quite a treat.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]