4 ms·

Make housing affordable with denser mixed-use zoning: You solved 50% of the problem. Make public transport convenient. You solved another 30%. People needs to

Make housing affordable with denser mixed-use zoning: You solved 50% of the problem. Make public transport convenient. You solved another 30%. People needs to be able to stay frugal in rough times and socialize. It feels to me that many US cities make this impossible. If you had Spain levels of unemployment I have no idea how would you do.

ioseph 3y ago
Density works but isn't it just kicking the can down the road until population growth and inflation drives prices up again?
- civilized 3y ago
  Is there supposed to be a one-time eternal solution, a solution that isn't just kicking a can down a road? The only way to keep housing affordable without building more, and have some semblance of fairness, would be to stop new building, impose a price/rent cap, then have a lottery to determine who gets the limited supply of houses. That is a one-time eternal solution that satisfies degrowth ideology, so long as you're willing to ignore the unlucky folks in the lottery.
- spaniard89277 3y ago
  Im on mobile, so much comments. Yes, but no. The root of the problem is that you cant build land and that's an impossible problem to solve. Supply solutions provide enough time window to think on demand solutions. It is possible, don't get paralized because you'll have a different set of problems in the future.
  - seanp2k2 3y ago
    You can’t build land, but in cities we deal with that by stacking floors on top of each other, turning one square foot of land into 100 if we want. Trying so hard to preserve rundown two-story crap boxes built in the postwar era just because some folks think that’s what SF should look like isn’t a solution.
- api 3y ago
  You think driving prices up in SF would help?
Mizoguchi 3y ago
Let's ignore that almost 100% of the homeless population in America is addicted to drugs. Having experienced drug abuse myself I know for a fact affordable housing is not going to do anything for these folks. They need treatment, and that unfortunately doesn't happen voluntarily when you are sick.
- spaniard89277 3y ago
  Were you born addicted to drugs? People needs treatment and a path to become useful members of society again. Affordable housing makes a lot of poor people able to save money and help their peers.
  - phpisthebest 3y ago
    anyone that has any depth of knowelege of the homeless knows there are generally 2 types of homeless population. Transitory economic homeless, these homeless can be assisted by affordable housing, housing first, and other programs. Often these homeless of covered pretty well by current homeless programs, as they are the type of homeless people most easily identify with, and engineer programs to solve. Then there are chronic non-economic homeless. For this group it is not economic issues they face no amount of affordable, or even free housing will make them not homeless, even if you give them a home chances are they will not stay in it. CA has an outsized portion of the latter type of homeless population, and only have programs designed for the former, that is why the problem does not get better. Infact many of CA programs actively harm the latter population
    - spaniard89277 3y ago
      So why other big cities in other continents have so few homeless compard to SF and LA? We do have people with mental problems here in Spain, but most don't roam the streets and end up living under a bridge. And I can assure you the Spanish institutions are not precisely brilliant dealing with problems.
      - phpisthebest 3y ago
agumonkey 3y ago
If I read you correctly, the social fabric in spain (urban planning, gatherings) makes difficult times bearable ? I'm quite interested in this because I anticipate we'll all need this when climate becomes too dire.
- spaniard89277 3y ago
  IMO urbanism plays a key role. Spanish cities are very dense, and until recently provided cheap housing with a mix of public-private developments. This isn't the case anymore (price wisw, still dense) and it's having effects on the social fabric.
  - agumonkey 3y ago
    And how does it manifest in dense cities ? I mean was it a very old tradition of spending time with others, that people kept along centuries ? Is it just sitting at a cafe ? or are there different ideas/rituals (sharing problem fixing, organizing cooking, etc) ?
    - spaniard89277 3y ago
      It's easier to make friends and keep contact. What I've always been told by americans is that keeping in touch becomes difficult because everything is hoping in a car and spend a lot of time driving back and forth. In my city it's 20 min walking max. In Madrid it's not that easy, but still. And it's walking. Improvising plans with people is also easy because you don't have to plan ahead too much.
      - agumonkey 3y ago
        I see, that's for personal relationships it seems. What about larger groups and larger tasks.. do people also find it natural to gather to renovate a house, or maybe a road, fix a pipe etc etc
PaulHoule 3y ago
A cure for schizophrenia is another 80% of the problem.

ioseph 3y ago

Density works but isn't it just kicking the can down the road until population growth and inflation drives prices up again?

civilized 3y ago
Is there supposed to be a one-time eternal solution, a solution that isn't just kicking a can down a road? The only way to keep housing affordable without building more, and have some semblance of fairness, would be to stop new building, impose a price/rent cap, then have a lottery to determine who gets the limited supply of houses. That is a one-time eternal solution that satisfies degrowth ideology, so long as you're willing to ignore the unlucky folks in the lottery.
spaniard89277 3y ago
Im on mobile, so much comments. Yes, but no. The root of the problem is that you cant build land and that's an impossible problem to solve. Supply solutions provide enough time window to think on demand solutions. It is possible, don't get paralized because you'll have a different set of problems in the future.
- seanp2k2 3y ago
  You can’t build land, but in cities we deal with that by stacking floors on top of each other, turning one square foot of land into 100 if we want. Trying so hard to preserve rundown two-story crap boxes built in the postwar era just because some folks think that’s what SF should look like isn’t a solution.
api 3y ago
You think driving prices up in SF would help?

Mizoguchi 3y ago

Let's ignore that almost 100% of the homeless population in America is addicted to drugs. Having experienced drug abuse myself I know for a fact affordable housing is not going to do anything for these folks. They need treatment, and that unfortunately doesn't happen voluntarily when you are sick.

spaniard89277 3y ago
Were you born addicted to drugs? People needs treatment and a path to become useful members of society again. Affordable housing makes a lot of poor people able to save money and help their peers.
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  anyone that has any depth of knowelege of the homeless knows there are generally 2 types of homeless population. Transitory economic homeless, these homeless can be assisted by affordable housing, housing first, and other programs. Often these homeless of covered pretty well by current homeless programs, as they are the type of homeless people most easily identify with, and engineer programs to solve. Then there are chronic non-economic homeless. For this group it is not economic issues they face no amount of affordable, or even free housing will make them not homeless, even if you give them a home chances are they will not stay in it. CA has an outsized portion of the latter type of homeless population, and only have programs designed for the former, that is why the problem does not get better. Infact many of CA programs actively harm the latter population
  - spaniard89277 3y ago
    So why other big cities in other continents have so few homeless compard to SF and LA? We do have people with mental problems here in Spain, but most don't roam the streets and end up living under a bridge. And I can assure you the Spanish institutions are not precisely brilliant dealing with problems.
    - phpisthebest 3y ago

agumonkey 3y ago

If I read you correctly, the social fabric in spain (urban planning, gatherings) makes difficult times bearable ? I'm quite interested in this because I anticipate we'll all need this when climate becomes too dire.

spaniard89277 3y ago
IMO urbanism plays a key role. Spanish cities are very dense, and until recently provided cheap housing with a mix of public-private developments. This isn't the case anymore (price wisw, still dense) and it's having effects on the social fabric.
- agumonkey 3y ago
  And how does it manifest in dense cities ? I mean was it a very old tradition of spending time with others, that people kept along centuries ? Is it just sitting at a cafe ? or are there different ideas/rituals (sharing problem fixing, organizing cooking, etc) ?
  - spaniard89277 3y ago
    It's easier to make friends and keep contact. What I've always been told by americans is that keeping in touch becomes difficult because everything is hoping in a car and spend a lot of time driving back and forth. In my city it's 20 min walking max. In Madrid it's not that easy, but still. And it's walking. Improvising plans with people is also easy because you don't have to plan ahead too much.
    - agumonkey 3y ago
      I see, that's for personal relationships it seems. What about larger groups and larger tasks.. do people also find it natural to gather to renovate a house, or maybe a road, fix a pipe etc etc

PaulHoule 3y ago

A cure for schizophrenia is another 80% of the problem.