9 ms·

Given how many YouTubers brazenly use dolphin on steam decks and say you can get free games, I’m surprised it didn’t happen sooner.

RGamma 3y ago
If that exists, it furthers the point for a (high entry barrier) separate internet for responsible folks. Some things are better left out of the spotlight given this IP regime...
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  And yet that didn't seem to stop the average schmoe from accessing Silk Road if they intended to. "Information wants to be free" as the adage goes.
  - RGamma 3y ago
    Maybe the separate internet was an exaggeration, but there are things I would never post on a frequently visited public forum, because they're best left unspoken or found if you look for/hear about them in private-ish convo (like emulators/ROMs), given the legislative climate around them. Too much (stimulated) popularity can be poison.
gjsman-1000 3y ago
This is something that often gets missed in the “Why can’t Nintendo be more like Sega?” argument. Nintendo sells games from other publishers, Sega doesn’t. Other publishers get mad if Nintendo can’t keep piracy on their platform under control. They send angry letters, complain to their representatives, and so forth. It’s not just (arguably) lost sales, but now you have to deal with more cheating players. To Nintendo, piracy is an embarrassment. Nintendo files DMCAs, in part, because other publishers expect them to and because only Nintendo can.
- fzeroracer 3y ago
  I didn't realize developers were still publishing Gamecube and Wii games. Can you share some of the newest games that have been released?
  - gjsman-1000 3y ago
    What are you talking about? Every game developer licenses with Nintendo to publish to Switch. Nintendo takes about 30% royalties, which stings if their platform is insecure. Only Nintendo can make physical cartridges. Nothing with the status quo there has changed. Also, the last original Wii game was Just Dance 2020. Not joking, a Wii game was released 3 years ago.
    - fzeroracer 3y ago
      I was specifically asking about Gamecube and Wii games, not Switch. Dolphin is a Gamecube/Wii emulator, both of which no longer have active games being released for them. Your argument might have some application if it was a Switch emulator being propped up.
      - gjsman-1000 3y ago
        I would say it’s more about establishing legal boundaries. The Wii was the first console to use digital signatures; which would make it the first console to really invoke DMCA Section 1201 when prior consoles did not. Establishing out the gate that this tramples on 1201 could be extremely important in the future. Section 1201 is also what overrides Bleam and other prior emulator lawsuits - they didn’t have cryptographic keys protected by law flying around. Because, how long until Yuzu is on the Steam store? And if Nintendo didn’t take action for the Wii (the first one protected under the title), defending against Yuzu is much harder.
        fzeroracer 3y ago
        Cryptographic key doesn't matter. It's covered explicitly under the exemptions listed in Section 1201. Discovering the cryptographic key using reverse engineering and using it for system interoperability is legal. They explicitly call this out: > to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; Nintendo has no standing.
brucethemoose2 3y ago
Yeah, they have no shame. Feels like they would throw anyone under the bus for a few clicks and subs.
chungy 3y ago
In general, I'm not sure what the idea of putting Dolphin on Steam was supposed to gain. First, I have a hard time conceiving why I'd even want to manage it from Steam, but aside from that, it seems like it'll only attract attention from people wanting "free games". It's sad too, since the Wii is a console that makes it extraordinarily simple to dump your own game discs and use the emulator in a completely legal fashion.
- wtallis 3y ago
  > In general, I'm not sure what the idea of putting Dolphin on Steam was supposed to gain. First, I have a hard time conceiving why I'd even want to manage it from Steam, In case you haven't heard of it, Valve sells the Steam Deck: a handheld gaming console with Steam as its primary UI. Under the hood, it's a low-power AMD x86 system running Linux (specifically, Valve's SteamOS distro). So having Dolphin on Steam would be the optimal way to make Dolphin available to Steam Deck users, just like having Dolphin available on the Google Play Store is the optimal way to make Dolphin available to Android users even though side-loading is an option.
  - dgellow 3y ago
    Dolphin doesn’t need to be on steam to be used on a steam deck. You can install any program you want, it’s not restricted to steam.
    - genocidicbunny 3y ago
      To most people, if it's not on Steam, it doesn't exist, especially on a Steam Deck. So while anyone can still install it outside of Steam, by not being available via Steam their possible audience is significantly reduced.
      - bigDinosaur 3y ago
        Is this so true of emulators? Emulators already often require lots of work to go find the games themselves (which certainly would not be distributed on Steam), so how much effort is actually spared for the users? Very little.

RGamma 3y ago

If that exists, it furthers the point for a (high entry barrier) separate internet for responsible folks. Some things are better left out of the spotlight given this IP regime...

hammyhavoc 3y ago
And yet that didn't seem to stop the average schmoe from accessing Silk Road if they intended to. "Information wants to be free" as the adage goes.
- RGamma 3y ago
  Maybe the separate internet was an exaggeration, but there are things I would never post on a frequently visited public forum, because they're best left unspoken or found if you look for/hear about them in private-ish convo (like emulators/ROMs), given the legislative climate around them. Too much (stimulated) popularity can be poison.

gjsman-1000 3y ago

This is something that often gets missed in the “Why can’t Nintendo be more like Sega?” argument. Nintendo sells games from other publishers, Sega doesn’t. Other publishers get mad if Nintendo can’t keep piracy on their platform under control. They send angry letters, complain to their representatives, and so forth. It’s not just (arguably) lost sales, but now you have to deal with more cheating players. To Nintendo, piracy is an embarrassment. Nintendo files DMCAs, in part, because other publishers expect them to and because only Nintendo can.

fzeroracer 3y ago
I didn't realize developers were still publishing Gamecube and Wii games. Can you share some of the newest games that have been released?
- gjsman-1000 3y ago
  What are you talking about? Every game developer licenses with Nintendo to publish to Switch. Nintendo takes about 30% royalties, which stings if their platform is insecure. Only Nintendo can make physical cartridges. Nothing with the status quo there has changed. Also, the last original Wii game was Just Dance 2020. Not joking, a Wii game was released 3 years ago.
  - fzeroracer 3y ago
    I was specifically asking about Gamecube and Wii games, not Switch. Dolphin is a Gamecube/Wii emulator, both of which no longer have active games being released for them. Your argument might have some application if it was a Switch emulator being propped up.
    - gjsman-1000 3y ago
      I would say it’s more about establishing legal boundaries. The Wii was the first console to use digital signatures; which would make it the first console to really invoke DMCA Section 1201 when prior consoles did not. Establishing out the gate that this tramples on 1201 could be extremely important in the future. Section 1201 is also what overrides Bleam and other prior emulator lawsuits - they didn’t have cryptographic keys protected by law flying around. Because, how long until Yuzu is on the Steam store? And if Nintendo didn’t take action for the Wii (the first one protected under the title), defending against Yuzu is much harder.
      - fzeroracer 3y ago
        Cryptographic key doesn't matter. It's covered explicitly under the exemptions listed in Section 1201. Discovering the cryptographic key using reverse engineering and using it for system interoperability is legal. They explicitly call this out: > to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; Nintendo has no standing.

brucethemoose2 3y ago

Yeah, they have no shame. Feels like they would throw anyone under the bus for a few clicks and subs.

chungy 3y ago

In general, I'm not sure what the idea of putting Dolphin on Steam was supposed to gain. First, I have a hard time conceiving why I'd even want to manage it from Steam, but aside from that, it seems like it'll only attract attention from people wanting "free games". It's sad too, since the Wii is a console that makes it extraordinarily simple to dump your own game discs and use the emulator in a completely legal fashion.

wtallis 3y ago
> In general, I'm not sure what the idea of putting Dolphin on Steam was supposed to gain. First, I have a hard time conceiving why I'd even want to manage it from Steam, In case you haven't heard of it, Valve sells the Steam Deck: a handheld gaming console with Steam as its primary UI. Under the hood, it's a low-power AMD x86 system running Linux (specifically, Valve's SteamOS distro). So having Dolphin on Steam would be the optimal way to make Dolphin available to Steam Deck users, just like having Dolphin available on the Google Play Store is the optimal way to make Dolphin available to Android users even though side-loading is an option.
- dgellow 3y ago
  Dolphin doesn’t need to be on steam to be used on a steam deck. You can install any program you want, it’s not restricted to steam.
  - genocidicbunny 3y ago
    To most people, if it's not on Steam, it doesn't exist, especially on a Steam Deck. So while anyone can still install it outside of Steam, by not being available via Steam their possible audience is significantly reduced.
    - bigDinosaur 3y ago
      Is this so true of emulators? Emulators already often require lots of work to go find the games themselves (which certainly would not be distributed on Steam), so how much effort is actually spared for the users? Very little.