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doing nothing your entire life but killing fish to eat (and carrying dead salmon on your nose!) sounds like a massive hyperbole for "approximately human-equal i
by twelve40 3y ago
doing nothing your entire life but killing fish to eat (and carrying dead salmon on your nose!) sounds like a massive hyperbole for "approximately human-equal intelligence"
- jasonzemos 3y agoDoing nothing your entire life but killing grazing animals and wearing their fur on your shoulders and teeth around your neck is just man a few thousand years removed.
- bmitc 3y agoWe still do that now and even worse. We used to do it for pure survival and need. Now we do it for pleasure more than anything else.
- roflyear 3y agoYes, we're much worse towards animals, and really the entire ecosystem, then we were even 100 years ago. Pretty wild.
- nashashmi 3y agoAn effect of the establishment and growth of communism, subsequently its counterpart emergence of capitalism, and the growing culture of excess materialism ... called wealth.
- jameshart 3y agoI think you read that history book backwards.
- nashashmi 3y agoOk? My research on this is capitalism was never coined until Marxism was coined. Marxism is the predecessor to communism. Communism was taken up during the Bolshevik revolution. Then it was demonized.
- jameshart 3y agoCapitalism was happening before Marx described it as such. And ‘wealth’ predates capitalism and mercantilism.
- nashashmi 3y agoThe term capitalism was never coined or used before Marxism. You could find ideals and concepts that were adopted by the capitalist movement such as laissez-faire. But these were independent concepts separately developed.
- zztop44 3y agoTechnically correct, but capitalist and capital were both in use before Marx. In any case it’s certainly more correct that Marxism is a response to capitalism, rather than the inverse.
- nashashmi 3y agoWhen Karl Marx wrote his book, it was in response to the aristocracy and bourgeois owning majority of the resources. He proposed resources be distributed amongst the people in service of the people or “working class” and proposed government take on this role. Capitalism was termed and grouped together in response to Marxist philosophy because it was a threat to the aristocracy. Capitalism proposed anyone and everyone can get rich if they slave away hard enough. Yet the “capitalists” still owned much of the capital resources. It is important to note that the normal person did not have too much opportunity in the mid 1800s. If you seen the movie the “English Game” this is evident in there. The concept of working hard and getting rich was introduced in the early 20th century. This is also about the time when schooling had become compulsory throughout the United States.
- 11235813213455 3y ago+ a lot of pollution
- bmitc 3y agoIs there an actual argument there? What are they supposed to do or eat? Orcas, other than humans, are the most widespread animal. They're in practically every ocean and continental coast and eat a variety of food. Orcas who concentrate on a single or a few species, like salmon, tuna, or rays, do so as a strategy. They are huge animals with huge caloric needs, so it makes sense to diversify so as to not over compete, and thus this makes it possible for different pods to live in the same areas. Humans the world over are starving and yet there is an over abundance of food. The U.S. alone wastes 120 billion pounds of food every year. Humans have to monitor how much fish we eat because we have filled fish with toxins like mercury and microplastics. So orcas are the "dumb" ones because some eat fish?
- nradov 3y agoNo one is claiming that orcas are dumb or that they shouldn't eat fish. But throughout nature when two species compete for the same resource there will inevitably be conflict. Europeans have been generally overfishing for centuries and will need to cut back catch quotas to a sustainable level. The Mediterranean once teemed with life, now it's rare to see any large fish. Famines are generally caused by bad governance, not by lack of food. We should reduce food waste where practical but that won't really help to feed the starving. For example, the 1980's Ethiopian famine which triggered major international relief efforts was primarily caused by a civil war. The opposing sides used hunger as a weapon and stole food from civilians. I can eat less tuna but that won't solve such problems.
- bmitc 3y ago> Famines are generally caused by bad governance, not by lack of food. That was primarily my point of calling that out, as it points to the lower emotional intelligence of humans.
- myshpa 3y agoYou definitely should join those who eat less tuna ... lower demand, more pressure on politicians to actually do something. https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts "HIGHEST VALUE OF BLUEFIN TUNA: $3,100,000, CONSERVATION STATUS: ENDANGERED" "TODAY ONLY 3% OF PACIFIC BLUEFIN TUNA REMAIN" "OVERFISHING PUTS $42 BILLION TUNA INDUSTRY AT RISK OF COLLAPSE" "A MITSUBISHI SUBSIDIARY CONTROLS 40% OF THE WORLDS BLUE FIN TUNA" https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/revealed-the-bid-to-corner-world-s-bluefin-tuna-market-1695479.html https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/revealed-t... "A corporation within the £170bn Mitsubishi empire is importing thousands of tonnes of the fish from Europe into Tokyo's premium fish markets, despite stocks plummeting towards extinction in the Mediterranean. Bluefin tuna frozen at -60C now could be sold in several years' time for astronomical sums if Atlantic bluefin becomes commercially extinct as forecast, a result of the near free-for-all enjoyed by the tuna fleet."
- tessierashpool 3y agodoing nothing your entire life but killing fish to eat (and carrying dead salmon on your nose!) sounds like a massive hyperbole for "approximately human-equal intelligence" nobody suggested that they were intelligent because they eat and wear fish. actual scientific research shows signs of culture, intelligence, and social learning, all of which point to approximately human-equal intelligence.
- twelve40 3y agook, can't argue with actual scientific research
- ClumsyPilot 3y agoAnd what do fishermen do? Are fishermen not human?
- twelve40 3y agoWhy do you say that? Did i claim that all humans are fishermen? No orcas do anything else their entire lives, but less than 1% of humans are fishermen (and still negligible even if you include all ranching and agriculture in modern countries!) And no, fisherman is not a "species" or a pre-defined destiny. Hemingway was a fisherman and a writer. Humans have the ability to do other things, even in the same lifespan. Sounds like arguing for 2+2=4.
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- petre 3y agoThat's probably what orcas think of humans fouling their water with oil and smoke leaking vehicles that also harvest their food and kill their siblings by dragging nets.
- ethbr0 3y agoIf I were a long-lived species that had relatively low numbers of offspring with an extended maturation time spent in social groups... ... it seems pretty reasonable that a death could trigger a lifelong vendetta. If humans were casually killed by other animals at the rate we casually kill even the most intelligent non-human species, we'd exterminate that other species. Oh wait, we have.
- bmitc 3y agoI have always wondered why the Southern Resident orcas in the Pacific Northwest aren't more skittish of humans. We captured them, killing many in the process, back in the 1970s. Many local bystanders and observers reported the orcas crying and screaming being completely disheartening and upsetting. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/the-orca-and-the-orca-catcher-how-a-generation-of-killer-whales-was-taken-from-puget-sound/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/the-or... https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/50-years-ago-seven-orcas-were-rounded-up-for-marine-parks-one-is-still-alive-4683205 https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/50-years-ago-seven-... https://us.whales.org/our-4-goals/end-captivity/the-penn-cove-orca-captures/ https://us.whales.org/our-4-goals/end-captivity/the-penn-cov... One of them still lives and has been in a single, tiny tank in Florida for five decades, alone for three decades. Completely sickening.
- skyyler 3y agoSounds like a pretty relaxed lifestyle that is in harmony with nature. Do they need to be exploiting each other to be smart or something?
- bmitc 3y agoThis is a great point that I also called out elsewhere. The orca lifestyle, despite their intelligence and their physical prowess, really speaks to a certain level of social and emotional intelligence that humans don't simply possess. I think it's interesting that orcas and other intelligent animals possess an ability to be contented. Humans are decidedly discontented and crave.
- throwway120385 3y agoIf you've ever seen one hunt a seal you'll also see exactly how human-like they are when they play with their food by throwing it up in the air and catching it.
- bmitc 3y agoA brutal practice for sure, but several animals will play with their food. Have you considered that human violence exceeds playing with food by many, many orders of magnitude?
- andbberger 3y agoi mean they don't have thumbs what else are they going to do
- soperj 3y ago> doing nothing your entire life but killing fish to eat (and carrying dead salmon on your nose!) sounds like a massive hyperbole for "approximately human-equal intelligence" Most people do less, they don't even kill the meat that they eat.
- markhahn 3y agoyou're overestimating what "intelligence" means, as well as what the median human does.
- nominatronic 3y ago“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.” ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, 1979
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- rubicon33 3y agoIsn't it interesting that ONLY humans seem to be blessed (cursed?) with a SPECIAL kind of intelligence? I don't doubt that Orcas and Dolphins are equally as intelligent, but they lack something critical to humans - the desire for MORE. We are constantly in need of the next thing, the biggest thing, the peak of possibility. They seem content just being and existing. More power to them!
- mdekkers 3y ago> but they lack something critical to humans - the desire for MORE Opposable thumbs is also a bit of an advantage
- 93po 3y agoAnd a lifetime of structured learning. Let's compare intelligence to a feral human with no schooling and raised by other humans with no schooling. I imagine it'd be closer than we think.
- hulitu 3y agoWhy with a feral human ? What's wrong with politicians ? They apdo only care about their income source.
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- blurbleblurble 3y agoAnd what do you do with your time? Stare at a glowing box all day? Doesn't that put you near the intelligence of a moth?
- StanislavPetrov 3y agoI know a numerous amount of humans who accomplish as little as these orcas but would be unable to carry a salmon on their nose.