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Read on - what they were really afraid of was the dirty/smelly poors coming onto their precious island. You see the same BS with bike paths through residential

Read on - what they were really afraid of was the dirty/smelly poors coming onto their precious island. You see the same BS with bike paths through residential neighborhoods. Despite studies showing that bike paths increase property values, residents bitch and moan about safety/crime. They basically figure that poor/non-white people will bike into their neighborhood and rape/pillage/burn everything. So you get a bunch of environmental concern-trolls funded by wealthy people who don't want to admit that, really, it's about race/class.

cyberax 3y ago
> Despite studies showing that bike paths increase property values Except that these studies are rather suspect and/or very narrow. The situation for actual residential neighborhoods is at most unclear.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Crime does seem to center around heavily developed public transit corridors, but it is difficult to tell if economic or transit accessibility are the primary drivers of increased crime (probably a bit of both).
  - cyberax 3y ago
    I'm not saying _anything_ about crime. I'm disputing the assertion that bike lanes inevitably increase property value.
    - noduerme 3y ago
      One case where they don't would be commercial roads with small shops that rely on street parking. But the comment you're responding to was talking about residential, and I haven't seen enough dispositive data on that one way or another. Like anything, it's probably a mixed bag.
      - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
        Nope. There too. It turns out that foot traffic and bike traffic do a lot more for small shops than cars do (because drivers go fast enough that they don't pay attention to 90% of the small shops).
        noduerme 3y ago
        This would really be relative to what kinds of shops, and the layout of the street parking (if any) after the bike lane is put in place. You're assuming that bike traffic is sufficient to make up for car traffic. But if it's a market, a bicyclist or pedestrian might only buy one bag worth of goods, while someone driving up with a car might be there to buy three. Similarly, you're assuming there's increased foot traffic; but the foot traffic doesn't increase just because parking is replaced with a bike lane, so that's basically static.
        cyberax 3y ago
        > Nope. There too. Yep, there too not. Evidence for bike lanes in the US comes from very methodologically suspicious studies (e.g. the Portland State one) that were heavily influenced by hyper-local effects and neglected to look at nearby businesses. Some of the more honest studies found the opposite effect. E.g. the LA study has shown that the non-sabotaged section had more revenue growth than the road-sabotaged section. There are also clear cases of bike lanes destroying businesses: https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2022/dec/26/stringers-460-parking-spots-deleted-north-parkkj/ https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2022/dec/26/stringers-46... I'm an anti-bike activist. Bike lanes work only in _very_ narrow cases: 1. In densified hellscape cities, like Manhattan, where normal traffic is simply impossible. 2. In small tourist destination towns. 3. On university campuses and around them. And that's pretty much it.
    - dghlsakjg 3y ago
      Not bike lanes, bike paths
noduerme 3y ago
Really? My street was recently turned into a greenway / bike street, and it's brought me nothing but an endless bike parade of smug white people in silly clothing. Just a couple hours ago, I was having to get my car towed and the tow driver was 3/4 into turning slowly back into the street when two women on bikes zoomed right in front of him, causing him to slam the brakes. One of them then shouted "Thank you!" over her shoulder. I can barely open my car door without some sanctimonious guy in spandex flying by and screaming at me.
- voldacar 3y ago
  What's wrong with being white or wearing silly clothing?
  - noduerme 3y ago
    Nothing. At least half the people I know fit that category. I was just bringing it up as a counterpoint to the "poor/non-white" statement by the parent comment.
    - sethherr 3y ago
      Hmmm. I think the point was that NIMBYs fight bike lanes because they’re concerned about what they could bring. Which, as the comment stated is not at all what bike lanes actually deliver (higher property values, white folks in silly clothes).
- thecopy 3y ago
  >endless bike parade This would be the first time im hearing about something like this. It sounds like the bike path was very successful. Do you have more information?
  - noduerme 3y ago
    Portland, Oregon. Home of the timid and the passive-aggressive.
- 3y ago
petre 3y ago
Heh, I was just trying to picture Some Puerto Rican Guy on a bike, cycling into rich white neighbourhoods. https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Some_Puerto_Rican_Guy https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Some_Puerto_Rican_Guy The only criminals on a bike that I'm aware of are bicycle thieves.
- doctor_eval 3y ago
  > The only criminals on a bike that I'm aware of are bicycle thieves. And, to be fair, it's only easy to identify them after it's too late.
- tchaffee 3y ago
  How does that work? You steal a bike and ride both home? Wouldn't a van or being on foot be the better approach to stealing bikes?
  - notahacker 3y ago
    Who said anything about them being on a bike before they'd stolen it?
lelanthran 3y ago
> Despite studies showing that bike paths increase property values, Citation needed. This is an extraordinary claim; you are going to need more than one single study done on a tiny sample with no control variables.
- thecopy 3y ago
  Is it really extraordinary or unbelievable? Easier access to infrastructure which is quiet and environmentally friendly should reasonably not decrease property values? I would definitely be more interested in a property with bike infrastructure, although that is just one tiny sample with no control variables:)
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    Also brings more foot traffic and possibility for crimes of opportunity and lowers the barrier to trespassing
    - awestroke 3y ago
      That's a very very american way of thinking
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > Is it really extraordinary or unbelievable? Easier access to infrastructure which is quiet and environmentally friendly should reasonably not decrease property values? Well, yes, when you're talking about residential areas. Home owners don't want a wall of strangers around their home all the time - it makes it difficult to spot the ones with ill-intent. I mean, if that wasn't true, homes in gated communities wouldn't be more expensive than standalone houses. > I would definitely be more interested in a property with bike infrastructure, although that is just one tiny sample with no control variables:) You'd think that (I certainly did), but the price for homes in gated communities are far far higher than the equivalent in non-gated. Which is why I want to see this hypothetical study that shows that residential areas closed to non-residents are cheaper than residential areas open to the public. Because, a simple look at home prices shows this to be wildly untrue.
rootusrootus 3y ago
> You see the same BS with bike paths through residential neighborhoods. I'd invite you to take a look at the Springwater Corridor in Portland. It is plausible that ubiquitous bike paths would not have the same problem, but it is difficult to fault someone for taking one look at that disaster and wanting it to come to their own quiet neighborhood.

cyberax 3y ago

> Despite studies showing that bike paths increase property values Except that these studies are rather suspect and/or very narrow. The situation for actual residential neighborhoods is at most unclear.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Crime does seem to center around heavily developed public transit corridors, but it is difficult to tell if economic or transit accessibility are the primary drivers of increased crime (probably a bit of both).
- cyberax 3y ago
  I'm not saying _anything_ about crime. I'm disputing the assertion that bike lanes inevitably increase property value.
  - noduerme 3y ago
    One case where they don't would be commercial roads with small shops that rely on street parking. But the comment you're responding to was talking about residential, and I haven't seen enough dispositive data on that one way or another. Like anything, it's probably a mixed bag.
    - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
      Nope. There too. It turns out that foot traffic and bike traffic do a lot more for small shops than cars do (because drivers go fast enough that they don't pay attention to 90% of the small shops).
      - noduerme 3y ago
        This would really be relative to what kinds of shops, and the layout of the street parking (if any) after the bike lane is put in place. You're assuming that bike traffic is sufficient to make up for car traffic. But if it's a market, a bicyclist or pedestrian might only buy one bag worth of goods, while someone driving up with a car might be there to buy three. Similarly, you're assuming there's increased foot traffic; but the foot traffic doesn't increase just because parking is replaced with a bike lane, so that's basically static.
      - cyberax 3y ago
        > Nope. There too. Yep, there too not. Evidence for bike lanes in the US comes from very methodologically suspicious studies (e.g. the Portland State one) that were heavily influenced by hyper-local effects and neglected to look at nearby businesses. Some of the more honest studies found the opposite effect. E.g. the LA study has shown that the non-sabotaged section had more revenue growth than the road-sabotaged section. There are also clear cases of bike lanes destroying businesses: https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2022/dec/26/stringers-460-parking-spots-deleted-north-parkkj/ https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2022/dec/26/stringers-46... I'm an anti-bike activist. Bike lanes work only in _very_ narrow cases: 1. In densified hellscape cities, like Manhattan, where normal traffic is simply impossible. 2. In small tourist destination towns. 3. On university campuses and around them. And that's pretty much it.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    Not bike lanes, bike paths

noduerme 3y ago

Really? My street was recently turned into a greenway / bike street, and it's brought me nothing but an endless bike parade of smug white people in silly clothing. Just a couple hours ago, I was having to get my car towed and the tow driver was 3/4 into turning slowly back into the street when two women on bikes zoomed right in front of him, causing him to slam the brakes. One of them then shouted "Thank you!" over her shoulder. I can barely open my car door without some sanctimonious guy in spandex flying by and screaming at me.

voldacar 3y ago
What's wrong with being white or wearing silly clothing?
- noduerme 3y ago
  Nothing. At least half the people I know fit that category. I was just bringing it up as a counterpoint to the "poor/non-white" statement by the parent comment.
  - sethherr 3y ago
    Hmmm. I think the point was that NIMBYs fight bike lanes because they’re concerned about what they could bring. Which, as the comment stated is not at all what bike lanes actually deliver (higher property values, white folks in silly clothes).
thecopy 3y ago
>endless bike parade This would be the first time im hearing about something like this. It sounds like the bike path was very successful. Do you have more information?
- noduerme 3y ago
  Portland, Oregon. Home of the timid and the passive-aggressive.
3y ago

petre 3y ago

Heh, I was just trying to picture Some Puerto Rican Guy on a bike, cycling into rich white neighbourhoods. https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Some_Puerto_Rican_Guy https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Some_Puerto_Rican_Guy The only criminals on a bike that I'm aware of are bicycle thieves.

doctor_eval 3y ago
> The only criminals on a bike that I'm aware of are bicycle thieves. And, to be fair, it's only easy to identify them after it's too late.
tchaffee 3y ago
How does that work? You steal a bike and ride both home? Wouldn't a van or being on foot be the better approach to stealing bikes?
- notahacker 3y ago
  Who said anything about them being on a bike before they'd stolen it?

lelanthran 3y ago

> Despite studies showing that bike paths increase property values, Citation needed. This is an extraordinary claim; you are going to need more than one single study done on a tiny sample with no control variables.

thecopy 3y ago
Is it really extraordinary or unbelievable? Easier access to infrastructure which is quiet and environmentally friendly should reasonably not decrease property values? I would definitely be more interested in a property with bike infrastructure, although that is just one tiny sample with no control variables:)
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Also brings more foot traffic and possibility for crimes of opportunity and lowers the barrier to trespassing
  - awestroke 3y ago
    That's a very very american way of thinking
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > Is it really extraordinary or unbelievable? Easier access to infrastructure which is quiet and environmentally friendly should reasonably not decrease property values? Well, yes, when you're talking about residential areas. Home owners don't want a wall of strangers around their home all the time - it makes it difficult to spot the ones with ill-intent. I mean, if that wasn't true, homes in gated communities wouldn't be more expensive than standalone houses. > I would definitely be more interested in a property with bike infrastructure, although that is just one tiny sample with no control variables:) You'd think that (I certainly did), but the price for homes in gated communities are far far higher than the equivalent in non-gated. Which is why I want to see this hypothetical study that shows that residential areas closed to non-residents are cheaper than residential areas open to the public. Because, a simple look at home prices shows this to be wildly untrue.

rootusrootus 3y ago

> You see the same BS with bike paths through residential neighborhoods. I'd invite you to take a look at the Springwater Corridor in Portland. It is plausible that ubiquitous bike paths would not have the same problem, but it is difficult to fault someone for taking one look at that disaster and wanting it to come to their own quiet neighborhood.