6 ms·

States are not banning books and talking about gay and transgender people. Not sure where you got that info from. As I understand, what they are doing is removi

States are not banning books and talking about gay and transgender people. Not sure where you got that info from. As I understand, what they are doing is removing non age appropiate books from elementary and middle school libraries, some of which include LGBTQ content. I would not call this "banning a book", in the same way that not being able to watch violent movies in elementary school is not "banning a movie". I would suggest you look into the content of the books being challenged and come to your own conclusion as to whether they are age appropiate or not. After all, the term "age appropiate" is subjective.

kasey_junk 3y ago
The Hill We Climb was recently banned due to parental complaint in Florida. That’s banning a book purely for its message. Any student could access the message of it by watching tape of a presidential inauguration.
ok_dad 3y ago
Well maybe parents should do that rather than the state? What’s bad about LGBTQ content and what does that even mean? I swear, you folks will reach as far as possible to make book bans seem reasonable.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lokhura 3y ago
  Who is "you folks"? I can think for myself, thanks. I'm providing some context for your naive or perhaps intentional misunderstanding of what is actually happening. And who do you think votes for these decisions? The parents. So presumably many parents think that some books in school liraries are not age appropiate. I haven't even expressed my opinion on this topic yet you are assuming my stance because you lack nuance. That's why I suggest you read the actual books that are being challenged and come back with a more informed perspective.
  - ok_dad 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - lokhura 3y ago
      Here are the top most challenged books of 2022 according to the ALA: - "Gender Queer" by Maia Kobabe - "All Boys Aren't Blue" by George M. Johnson - "The Bluest Eye" by Toni Morrison - "Flamer" by Mike Curato - "Looking for Alaska" by John Green - "The Perks of Being a Wallflower" by Stephen Chbosky - "Lawn Boy" by Jonathan Evison - "The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian" by Sherman Alexie - "Out of Darkness" by Ashley Hope Pérez - "A Court of Mist and Fury" by Sarah J. Maas - "Crank" by Ellen Hopkins - "Me and Earl and the Dying Girl" by Jesse Andrews - "This Book Is Gay" by Juno Dawson
      - ok_dad 3y ago
        OK, now assuming I have read them, and I probably won't but assume I do: why should they be banned? Tell me exactly why parents shouldn't be on the hook to track what their kids read and talk with them about what they believe? Why is information like this dangerous? What danger does it pose to society that gay people and transgender people exist? What danger does information about sex pose to a child? Then, once you answered that, tell me why I shouldn't ban Catholic churches from my community because of the perceived risk of pedophilia loving sexual pervert priests? (note: I don't believe we should ban churches, but at least I can show evidence of a threat) My point here is that information is not dangerous and should not be banned or kept behind a locked door. That's how we end up with powerful interests controlling us.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > who do you think votes for these decisions? The parents. There are a lot of non-parents with strong opinions about this.
detaro 3y ago
And it's clearly attempted to make any mention of gay or trans people existing or being in any way normal "not age appropriate". The sponsor of Florida's law gave pure mention of a child having two dads as an example of what should be prevented in schools.
- firstlink 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ok_dad 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - firstlink 3y ago
      > there is no book for children that talks about oral sex that is was in any place where a kid could read it Yes there was, and your conviction that this must be an exaggeration shows just how completely out of touch the mainstream media-following public is from the reality of the situation. Just as a single example, the children's illustrated sex instruction manual "This Book is Gay" has had its relevant contents republished all over the internet, so that one would practically have to have been specifically avoiding seeing it. It is using LGBTQ as a shield for pedophilia and as an LGBTQ person that makes me sick. The very title gleefully declares this intent: "This Book is Gay" and therefore if you object you must be a homophobe, and not, you know, someone who thinks that maybe children shouldn't be having sex unless and until they are old enough to work it out for themselves. ETA: I almost forgot that even Snopes had to admit about the contents of this particular book: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/. In fact snopes reports it's even worse than what I said; it provides instructions on how to obtain access to hookup apps. To kids. Hookup apps. Kids. It's sick.
      - ok_dad 3y ago
        > To kids. Hookup apps. Kids. It's sick. Well, I read the snopes article and the book seems edgy but reasonable. Why is it sick? Is it wrong to teach middle school kids about sex before they might have it in high school? Anyways, I said I wasn't going to respond here anymore, so I won't, but I guess your morals and mine aren't a matching pair. I don't see how sex ed harms middle school kids. If anything, it helps them not be a dufus and get preggo when they have sex the first time. Lots of movies that middle schoolers watch show people meeting each other in different situatiosn and then dating, which isn't any different from a "hookup app", which aren't used for as much sex hookups as you folks seem to think, it's where people today meet each other to date. Sex isn't sick, it's how humans make babies and become closer as couples and sometimes how they have fun.
dabluecaboose 3y ago
[flagged]
ok_dad 3y ago
[flagged]
- firstlink 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ok_dad 3y ago
    Did you read it? When the law came into affect, the teacher quit her job rather than possibly be in legal and work trouble if she even mentioned why she wore a fucking diamond ring. Read better.
- newZWhoDis 3y ago
  >Christian fascist stronghold I just don’t understand this line and I see it so much. I’m not remotely “Christian”, some might even call me christophobic. Yet I enthusiastically support these measures and would love to see them expanded. How do you cope with that? Not everyone who is against you is religious.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - newZWhoDis 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - idontpost 3y ago
    [dead]
  - jliptzin 3y ago
    Definitely possible to be atheist and homophobic at the same time
    - 3y ago
thomastjeffery 3y ago
> As I understand, what they are doing is removing non age appropiate books from elementary and middle school libraries, some of which include LGBTQ content. That's the same thing. Defining a book as "age inappropriate" because it talkes about sexuality means that talking about sexuality is age inappropriate. But taking about sexuality is critical for the healthy development of an LGBTQ+ child! How else can they understand, or even put into words, what they themselves are going through? Teachers can show children Schindler's List, but can't talk to them about sex. That's the reality we are discussing here.
- HelloNurse 3y ago
  Talking about sexuality is critical for the healthy development of any child. Terribly wrong ideas can take root at a very young age. Every time an educator evades a child's questions about sex they are "grooming" an antisocial deviant; protecting people from truth is inherently destructive.
idontpost 3y ago
[dead]
Eumenes 3y ago
One point of outrage I've seen is about this Florida law passed last year that said schools need to have an online catalog of the books found within the school library, have a public notice period for comment for any book being added to the library, a 30 day grace period for after the book is introduced for a parent to make a formal complaint, a form to make a complaint about an existing book, and banned pornography ... why do so many people take offense with this very democratic process?
- ok_dad 3y ago
  > why do so many people take offense with this very democratic process? The words written for a law aren't how the law is actually implemented. Law isn't code. The group in power, in this case people who want to limit how LGBTQ people live, will write a perfectly reasonable law, and then only apply that law to cases that they personally believe in. In other cases, such as if you were to complain about the bible being lewd, they would state some exception for it and ignore your request. This "perfectly democratic" law is, in fact, used in a non-democratic way!
- p0pcult 3y ago
  [flagged]

kasey_junk 3y ago

The Hill We Climb was recently banned due to parental complaint in Florida. That’s banning a book purely for its message. Any student could access the message of it by watching tape of a presidential inauguration.

ok_dad 3y ago

Well maybe parents should do that rather than the state? What’s bad about LGBTQ content and what does that even mean? I swear, you folks will reach as far as possible to make book bans seem reasonable.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lokhura 3y ago
Who is "you folks"? I can think for myself, thanks. I'm providing some context for your naive or perhaps intentional misunderstanding of what is actually happening. And who do you think votes for these decisions? The parents. So presumably many parents think that some books in school liraries are not age appropiate. I haven't even expressed my opinion on this topic yet you are assuming my stance because you lack nuance. That's why I suggest you read the actual books that are being challenged and come back with a more informed perspective.
- ok_dad 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - lokhura 3y ago
    Here are the top most challenged books of 2022 according to the ALA: - "Gender Queer" by Maia Kobabe - "All Boys Aren't Blue" by George M. Johnson - "The Bluest Eye" by Toni Morrison - "Flamer" by Mike Curato - "Looking for Alaska" by John Green - "The Perks of Being a Wallflower" by Stephen Chbosky - "Lawn Boy" by Jonathan Evison - "The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian" by Sherman Alexie - "Out of Darkness" by Ashley Hope Pérez - "A Court of Mist and Fury" by Sarah J. Maas - "Crank" by Ellen Hopkins - "Me and Earl and the Dying Girl" by Jesse Andrews - "This Book Is Gay" by Juno Dawson
    - ok_dad 3y ago
      OK, now assuming I have read them, and I probably won't but assume I do: why should they be banned? Tell me exactly why parents shouldn't be on the hook to track what their kids read and talk with them about what they believe? Why is information like this dangerous? What danger does it pose to society that gay people and transgender people exist? What danger does information about sex pose to a child? Then, once you answered that, tell me why I shouldn't ban Catholic churches from my community because of the perceived risk of pedophilia loving sexual pervert priests? (note: I don't believe we should ban churches, but at least I can show evidence of a threat) My point here is that information is not dangerous and should not be banned or kept behind a locked door. That's how we end up with powerful interests controlling us.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > who do you think votes for these decisions? The parents. There are a lot of non-parents with strong opinions about this.

detaro 3y ago

And it's clearly attempted to make any mention of gay or trans people existing or being in any way normal "not age appropriate". The sponsor of Florida's law gave pure mention of a child having two dads as an example of what should be prevented in schools.

firstlink 3y ago
[flagged]
- ok_dad 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - firstlink 3y ago
    > there is no book for children that talks about oral sex that is was in any place where a kid could read it Yes there was, and your conviction that this must be an exaggeration shows just how completely out of touch the mainstream media-following public is from the reality of the situation. Just as a single example, the children's illustrated sex instruction manual "This Book is Gay" has had its relevant contents republished all over the internet, so that one would practically have to have been specifically avoiding seeing it. It is using LGBTQ as a shield for pedophilia and as an LGBTQ person that makes me sick. The very title gleefully declares this intent: "This Book is Gay" and therefore if you object you must be a homophobe, and not, you know, someone who thinks that maybe children shouldn't be having sex unless and until they are old enough to work it out for themselves. ETA: I almost forgot that even Snopes had to admit about the contents of this particular book: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/. In fact snopes reports it's even worse than what I said; it provides instructions on how to obtain access to hookup apps. To kids. Hookup apps. Kids. It's sick.
    - ok_dad 3y ago
      > To kids. Hookup apps. Kids. It's sick. Well, I read the snopes article and the book seems edgy but reasonable. Why is it sick? Is it wrong to teach middle school kids about sex before they might have it in high school? Anyways, I said I wasn't going to respond here anymore, so I won't, but I guess your morals and mine aren't a matching pair. I don't see how sex ed harms middle school kids. If anything, it helps them not be a dufus and get preggo when they have sex the first time. Lots of movies that middle schoolers watch show people meeting each other in different situatiosn and then dating, which isn't any different from a "hookup app", which aren't used for as much sex hookups as you folks seem to think, it's where people today meet each other to date. Sex isn't sick, it's how humans make babies and become closer as couples and sometimes how they have fun.

dabluecaboose 3y ago

[flagged]

ok_dad 3y ago

[flagged]

firstlink 3y ago
[flagged]
- ok_dad 3y ago
  Did you read it? When the law came into affect, the teacher quit her job rather than possibly be in legal and work trouble if she even mentioned why she wore a fucking diamond ring. Read better.
newZWhoDis 3y ago
>Christian fascist stronghold I just don’t understand this line and I see it so much. I’m not remotely “Christian”, some might even call me christophobic. Yet I enthusiastically support these measures and would love to see them expanded. How do you cope with that? Not everyone who is against you is religious.
- autoexec 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - newZWhoDis 3y ago
    [flagged]
- idontpost 3y ago
  [dead]
- jliptzin 3y ago
  Definitely possible to be atheist and homophobic at the same time
  - 3y ago

thomastjeffery 3y ago

> As I understand, what they are doing is removing non age appropiate books from elementary and middle school libraries, some of which include LGBTQ content. That's the same thing. Defining a book as "age inappropriate" because it talkes about sexuality means that talking about sexuality is age inappropriate. But taking about sexuality is critical for the healthy development of an LGBTQ+ child! How else can they understand, or even put into words, what they themselves are going through? Teachers can show children Schindler's List, but can't talk to them about sex. That's the reality we are discussing here.

HelloNurse 3y ago
Talking about sexuality is critical for the healthy development of any child. Terribly wrong ideas can take root at a very young age. Every time an educator evades a child's questions about sex they are "grooming" an antisocial deviant; protecting people from truth is inherently destructive.

idontpost 3y ago

[dead]

Eumenes 3y ago

One point of outrage I've seen is about this Florida law passed last year that said schools need to have an online catalog of the books found within the school library, have a public notice period for comment for any book being added to the library, a 30 day grace period for after the book is introduced for a parent to make a formal complaint, a form to make a complaint about an existing book, and banned pornography ... why do so many people take offense with this very democratic process?

ok_dad 3y ago
> why do so many people take offense with this very democratic process? The words written for a law aren't how the law is actually implemented. Law isn't code. The group in power, in this case people who want to limit how LGBTQ people live, will write a perfectly reasonable law, and then only apply that law to cases that they personally believe in. In other cases, such as if you were to complain about the bible being lewd, they would state some exception for it and ignore your request. This "perfectly democratic" law is, in fact, used in a non-democratic way!
p0pcult 3y ago
[flagged]