6 ms·

> They can say the sub is for "pages printed", but that's complete nonsense and everyone knows it. I actually don't think that's nonsense, because HP is chargi

> They can say the sub is for "pages printed", but that's complete nonsense and everyone knows it. I actually don't think that's nonsense, because HP is charging per page, not per ink cartridge. You don't get a new ink cartridge every month, you get the ability to print more pages, and only new cartridges as required to print those pages. Put another way, OP's subscription only paid for a fraction of their ink cartridge, not the whole cartridge. HP could make OP mail back their half-empty cartridge, but that likely would raise the overall cost of the service due to shipping logistics. I agree the whole concept of this service feels scummy and I would never recommend it to anyone, I just don't find this particular aspect so unfair.

lastangryman 3y ago
I see what you are saying, but susbscription according to OP was for "HP Instant Ink". I also assume the cost of the subscription was pretty much to cover the cost of the Ink. In my eyes, OP has already paid for the ink. If they want to make it fair, then they could define a charge per page and then bill you for actual pages printed at the end of each month. The fact that ink must be bundled in cartridges that print many pages is HPs problem, not consumers, and they can't work around that with a non-sensical subscription model.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  > If they want to make it fair, then they could define a charge per page and then bill you for actual pages printed at the end of each month. But that's literally how it works! A certain number of pages are included in the monthly cost, and you're billed for additional pages over the limit. The problem is that OP cancelled their subscription shortly after receiving a new cartridge. So now the options are: • Make OP return the cartridge. • Charge OP for the remainder of their cartridge as a cancellation fee. (Yuck!) • Prevent OP from using the cartridge. --- > The fact that ink must be bundled in cartridges that print many pages is HPs problem, not consumers, and they can't work around that with a non-sensical subscription model. But at the same time: consumers are choosing to buy this subscription. HP provides an option to buy cartridges outright, without limits, and consumers are choosing the subscription instead. I don't know why consumers are doing that. I would never do it, and I would strongly advise others against it. But many people appear to appreciate the service. Now, maybe those people are being tricked into the subscription via dark patterns, which would be a problem, but a different one.
  - brk 3y ago
    >The problem is that IMO, the Problem is that HP markets this as an ink subscription, when it is really a printed page subscription. It's hard to blame someone for thinking that an "ink subscription" would prevent them from fully utilizing ink paid for during the subscription. This seems like HP is trying to capitalize on all kinds of other product subscription models popular today (eg: Aamazon Subscribe and Save, pet food deliveries, water delivery, etc.), but purposefully making the marketing as misleading as possible. Don't call it "instant ink", call it a Print Subscription and you'd probably eliminate most of the problems (and sales...).
    - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
      It's called "HP Instant Ink" because you don't have to keep track of ink cartridge levels, HP takes care of that for you and bills per page instead. I honestly thought all the marketing materials I've seen were quite clear about how the service was billed. I don't think changing the name would lead to more or less confusion or sales.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        It would have reduced confusion for me, anyway. I thought is was an ink subscription service, because that's how they market it.
        Wowfunhappy 3y ago
        But did you actually go through the buying process? I tried it and you have to select a plan based on number of pages.
        JohnFen 3y ago
        No, I'm talking about the marketing. But is the fact that it's not an ink subscription service made really clear? Because it's absolutely not in their marketing materials. They do everything possible to make it sound like an ink subscription service. I could easily see myself looking at selecting a plan based on number of pages and thinking that they're just using that to measure the amount of ink. "Plan x: 10 pages/month" meaning that you get the amount of ink you need per month to print 10 average pages, not that once you get the ink you need to keep paying for it.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  Thats exactly how it works, except you are paying ahead of time for a bundle of pages and then there is a cost to add more if you need them. https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/instant-ink/plans.html https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/instant-ink/plans.html You are paying $6 for 100 pages. Then you can add 10 pages for $1 (that amount changes based on the subscription). We can argue that the program has some scummy aspects but if we are going to argue about this we should at least look up how it actually works here.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > You are paying $6 for 100 pages. WHAT?! That's insanely expensive. You'd think they'd have to beat the prices to print things out at the local copy shop, at least.
    - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
      I think that's more-or-less in line with the cost of HP ink cartridges. The real moral of this story is that people should stop buying HP printers, or at least HP inkjet printers. (For a laugh, see also The Verge's 2023 Printer Buying Guide: https://www.theverge.com/23642073/best-printer-2023-brother-laser-wi-fi-its-fine https://www.theverge.com/23642073/best-printer-2023-brother-...)
    - nerdjon 3y ago
      Are you are that is expensive? Where I am printing a black and white document is around $0.20. A color print is $0.60. So 100 black and white pages would be $20 and color would be $60. Sure you have to add paper to that calculation but considering that is a 500 count for $10-15 thats still makes it cheaper wether you are doing black and white or color. Now yes you do have to take into account the cost of the machine.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        Well, it's expensive compare to copy shops around here. Color prints in very low quantities start at 5 cents per page. If you are printing a lot of pages, the per page price starts to drop.
- mynameisvlad 3y ago
  “HP Instant Ink” is the name of the product. When we use “Windows” we don’t complain that they’re not real windows. When we use a Mac, we don’t complain that it’s not real Macintosh apples. It’s just a name. As the parent commenter says, you pay explicitly for a quota of printed pages, not ink or anything else. Therefore, they do define a price per page, anywhere from 10c on their cheapest plan down to 3.57c on their most expensive. Is it a shitty practice? Certainly. But you explicitly dont pay for ink, regardless of the name of the product.
  - hn92726819 3y ago
    People aren't complaining about the name Windows or Macintosh being misleading. When companies are misleading about their products, they can be sued for it (look at Veggie Straws or Hagen Daas. Here are more: https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=b13444ce-27b4-41e7-96cc-552003d6f8d2 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=b13444ce-27b4...) The point is, you can't just throw your arms up and say "oh well what a coincidental name HP selected for their product". Misleading names can have a real business impact and might even be intentionally misleading.
    - mynameisvlad 3y ago
      Oh please, are you going to complain that the ink also isn’t magically teleported to your door? It is called “Instant Ink” after all. It’s the product’s name, so clearly it must be a factual description of what it does. The subscription is more than clear. Please show me where it claims in any way shape or form that you are buying a cartridge of ink that you can keep using after your subscription. I’m waiting.
      - prophesi 3y ago
        I mean, just looking at the product page it's all about receiving ink in a timely manner. It's not until you get to the poorly-named Ink Plans that you see that it's actually all about pages.
        3y ago
tialaramex 3y ago
I actually offered to buy my mother a printer with what I considered a more sensible ink replacement situation but she asked for, received and had been very happy with, a printer with the HP Instant Ink subscription. I was astonished, but she's not an idiot, and she doesn't have any reason to lie to me. She's retired but she does a lot of arts and crafts stuff and seems to print a fair amount most months, and she hates having to drive somewhere to buy ink when you run out, so I guess this is more convenient.

lastangryman 3y ago

I see what you are saying, but susbscription according to OP was for "HP Instant Ink". I also assume the cost of the subscription was pretty much to cover the cost of the Ink. In my eyes, OP has already paid for the ink. If they want to make it fair, then they could define a charge per page and then bill you for actual pages printed at the end of each month. The fact that ink must be bundled in cartridges that print many pages is HPs problem, not consumers, and they can't work around that with a non-sensical subscription model.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago
> If they want to make it fair, then they could define a charge per page and then bill you for actual pages printed at the end of each month. But that's literally how it works! A certain number of pages are included in the monthly cost, and you're billed for additional pages over the limit. The problem is that OP cancelled their subscription shortly after receiving a new cartridge. So now the options are: • Make OP return the cartridge. • Charge OP for the remainder of their cartridge as a cancellation fee. (Yuck!) • Prevent OP from using the cartridge. --- > The fact that ink must be bundled in cartridges that print many pages is HPs problem, not consumers, and they can't work around that with a non-sensical subscription model. But at the same time: consumers are choosing to buy this subscription. HP provides an option to buy cartridges outright, without limits, and consumers are choosing the subscription instead. I don't know why consumers are doing that. I would never do it, and I would strongly advise others against it. But many people appear to appreciate the service. Now, maybe those people are being tricked into the subscription via dark patterns, which would be a problem, but a different one.
- brk 3y ago
  >The problem is that IMO, the Problem is that HP markets this as an ink subscription, when it is really a printed page subscription. It's hard to blame someone for thinking that an "ink subscription" would prevent them from fully utilizing ink paid for during the subscription. This seems like HP is trying to capitalize on all kinds of other product subscription models popular today (eg: Aamazon Subscribe and Save, pet food deliveries, water delivery, etc.), but purposefully making the marketing as misleading as possible. Don't call it "instant ink", call it a Print Subscription and you'd probably eliminate most of the problems (and sales...).
  - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
    It's called "HP Instant Ink" because you don't have to keep track of ink cartridge levels, HP takes care of that for you and bills per page instead. I honestly thought all the marketing materials I've seen were quite clear about how the service was billed. I don't think changing the name would lead to more or less confusion or sales.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      It would have reduced confusion for me, anyway. I thought is was an ink subscription service, because that's how they market it.
      - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
        But did you actually go through the buying process? I tried it and you have to select a plan based on number of pages.
        JohnFen 3y ago
        No, I'm talking about the marketing. But is the fact that it's not an ink subscription service made really clear? Because it's absolutely not in their marketing materials. They do everything possible to make it sound like an ink subscription service. I could easily see myself looking at selecting a plan based on number of pages and thinking that they're just using that to measure the amount of ink. "Plan x: 10 pages/month" meaning that you get the amount of ink you need per month to print 10 average pages, not that once you get the ink you need to keep paying for it.
nerdjon 3y ago
Thats exactly how it works, except you are paying ahead of time for a bundle of pages and then there is a cost to add more if you need them. https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/instant-ink/plans.html https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/instant-ink/plans.html You are paying $6 for 100 pages. Then you can add 10 pages for $1 (that amount changes based on the subscription). We can argue that the program has some scummy aspects but if we are going to argue about this we should at least look up how it actually works here.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > You are paying $6 for 100 pages. WHAT?! That's insanely expensive. You'd think they'd have to beat the prices to print things out at the local copy shop, at least.
  - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
    I think that's more-or-less in line with the cost of HP ink cartridges. The real moral of this story is that people should stop buying HP printers, or at least HP inkjet printers. (For a laugh, see also The Verge's 2023 Printer Buying Guide: https://www.theverge.com/23642073/best-printer-2023-brother-laser-wi-fi-its-fine https://www.theverge.com/23642073/best-printer-2023-brother-...)
  - nerdjon 3y ago
    Are you are that is expensive? Where I am printing a black and white document is around $0.20. A color print is $0.60. So 100 black and white pages would be $20 and color would be $60. Sure you have to add paper to that calculation but considering that is a 500 count for $10-15 thats still makes it cheaper wether you are doing black and white or color. Now yes you do have to take into account the cost of the machine.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      Well, it's expensive compare to copy shops around here. Color prints in very low quantities start at 5 cents per page. If you are printing a lot of pages, the per page price starts to drop.
mynameisvlad 3y ago
“HP Instant Ink” is the name of the product. When we use “Windows” we don’t complain that they’re not real windows. When we use a Mac, we don’t complain that it’s not real Macintosh apples. It’s just a name. As the parent commenter says, you pay explicitly for a quota of printed pages, not ink or anything else. Therefore, they do define a price per page, anywhere from 10c on their cheapest plan down to 3.57c on their most expensive. Is it a shitty practice? Certainly. But you explicitly dont pay for ink, regardless of the name of the product.
- hn92726819 3y ago
  People aren't complaining about the name Windows or Macintosh being misleading. When companies are misleading about their products, they can be sued for it (look at Veggie Straws or Hagen Daas. Here are more: https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=b13444ce-27b4-41e7-96cc-552003d6f8d2 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=b13444ce-27b4...) The point is, you can't just throw your arms up and say "oh well what a coincidental name HP selected for their product". Misleading names can have a real business impact and might even be intentionally misleading.
  - mynameisvlad 3y ago
    Oh please, are you going to complain that the ink also isn’t magically teleported to your door? It is called “Instant Ink” after all. It’s the product’s name, so clearly it must be a factual description of what it does. The subscription is more than clear. Please show me where it claims in any way shape or form that you are buying a cartridge of ink that you can keep using after your subscription. I’m waiting.
    - prophesi 3y ago
      I mean, just looking at the product page it's all about receiving ink in a timely manner. It's not until you get to the poorly-named Ink Plans that you see that it's actually all about pages.
      - 3y ago

tialaramex 3y ago

I actually offered to buy my mother a printer with what I considered a more sensible ink replacement situation but she asked for, received and had been very happy with, a printer with the HP Instant Ink subscription. I was astonished, but she's not an idiot, and she doesn't have any reason to lie to me. She's retired but she does a lot of arts and crafts stuff and seems to print a fair amount most months, and she hates having to drive somewhere to buy ink when you run out, so I guess this is more convenient.