7 ms·

In 2 days time I'll mark my 27th year as a professional programmer (and just over 40 years since I started programming). I've worked in small companies, big com

In 2 days time I'll mark my 27th year as a professional programmer (and just over 40 years since I started programming). I've worked in small companies, big companies, and mega-corporations. I've been a programmer, manager, team lead and CTO. And in doing so I discovered that I don't like managing people, I don't like meetings, and I don't like paperwork. I like long periods of focus. So I'm a software dev/architect again, working in esoteric and interesting spaces, and will continue to do so until I "retire" (meaning that I switch to full time on my open source projects).

sph 3y ago
You have twice my professional age, and I have come to the same realisation. I want to earn enough money from my business ideas to spend the rest of my time on hacking on niche languages, distributed/anonymous networks, etc. and as I grow older, to use computer and programming just to maintain a modern off-the-grid life (so working on my smart grid, automating my cabin-in-the-woods life) Computers and the Internet have gone from being a lifestyle, to just a tool.
Wensio 3y ago
Any advice for aspiriing programmers? I work full-time and go to school part-time so finding time / motiviation to practice and learn is incredibly difficult most days.
victor9000 3y ago
I took the same path and came to the same realization, yet my current architect role is still nothing but meetings. Ugh.
- badpun 3y ago
  "Architect" in most places is basically "code politician".
- devnullbrain 3y ago
  Code is easy, people are hard.
- arvinsim 3y ago
  Me, on the other hand, long to be an architect so that I can influence some technical decisions. Grass is always greener.
  - sumtechguy 3y ago
    Dont be the architect be the guy who tells the architect what to do. Because they are too busy in meetings.
  - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
    You hope you can influence some technical decisions, but it's not just a title of architect that gives you authority, you need convincing and communication skills as well.
    - arvinsim 3y ago
      I think that's the best I can do if I want to stay in the engineering track.
marktolson 3y ago
Same path, but for the last 10 years i've been a CTO. Right now i'd kill for fewer meetings and more focus time. Starting to take its toll.
- onion2k 3y ago
  Hire an engineering manager and delegate.
  - jksmith 3y ago
    Suggest wrong direction. Make teams more autonomous and develop the art of the backlog. Too much management is what's wrong with organizations these days.
- andruby 3y ago
  Make the changes you'd love to see. The CTO role is vague and broad and is defined differently in most companies anyway. You can delegate things to an engineering manager or director. Or if the company is large enough to a VP. find a cross-section of what is valuable for the company and what you like doing
  - hgsgm 3y ago
    I don't think the Eng Dir will enjoy doing the CTO's job for the CTO. In 6 months Eng Dir would be in a meeting with the CEO asking the CEO to fix the glitch.
szundi 3y ago
I am not sure what I want more anymore. I love these periods of flow, but I am so good at integrating other people's work, making them agree on the best while being happy and feeling productive. Also flow makes time fly and I feel I would just die very soon, heh. Anyone feeling this too? But I crave this feeling very much anyway.
- hgsgm 3y ago
  I don't want to feel like I live longer by enjoying each moment less.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  This is my exact feeling :D I love coding and problem solving, but during my career I noticed that I'm _really_ good at getting technical people to communicate with each other and integrating their work. I try to do both, but I still don't know which I like more. I tried the full manager / chart drawing architect -route and I hated it. Just coding was a bit boring too in the long run, because I want to make an impact on the org-level and I'm incapable of shutting up if I see any inefficiencies that could be improved by communication.
  - zachturn 3y ago
    > I'm incapable of shutting up if I see any inefficiencies that could be improved by communication This is one of my biggest struggles. I see so much flawed work and I can't help but voice my opinion, but I can't possibly dedicate time to try to fix it all, so I'm often afraid of just coming across as a complainer.
    - theshrike79 3y ago
      My "problem" is that if/when I open my mouth, people give me more responsibilities. "Don't like how it's done? Now you're responsible for it." Granted I usually got a raise to go with it, but it was just admin work and not-coding - which I didn't like.
  - morning-coffee 3y ago
vjk800 3y ago
I used to love the long periods of focus in my 20s, but ever since more life started happening, I can't do those anymore. It turns out my stress tolerance is incredibly low and when the life outside my work is not completely in order (like it rarely is after the 20s), being able to get into the flow state gets very difficult. I wish I was one of those people who could just forget the problems at home, etc. when they sit in front of the computer and start coding, but I can't, and as a result my ability to focused work has gone down a lot, and nowadays I do more "people work" simply because that's easier to do when my head is not in it 100%.
- ryeguy_24 3y ago
  Hmm, interesting. I'm 39 and used to have amazing flow sessions in late 20s and early 30s but not seeing them much anymore. I can't tell if it's because of stresses of life or simply because I don't have enough time (with 3 young kids) to allow myself to fall into a state of flow. I really hope it's not stresses or my brain changing because I really valued those periods of focus.
  - phkahler 3y ago
    I think it's your kids. They should be your priority for now. You really can get back to tech stuff later. Phases of life and all that.
  - jacobyoder 3y ago
    No kids here, but similar in that I remember sessions of long focus, and being able to do them repeatedly, for multiple days in a row. I typically can't do that as much now. Perhaps more to the point, I can't do them on demand. I do still have periods of 'focused flow', and they're great, but they just 'happen'. But... I never could just turn them on/off in the past either - they just happened far more frequently. I predict you'll have more, just not as frequently as you used to. :) FWIW, many of the things I used to have to spend long periods of focus on are now simple/common libraries that just didn't exist 30 years ago. Or, if they existed, there wasn't any convenient way of discovering them. So I find my productivity is still comparatively high, even with fewer number of flow states.
api 3y ago
Developers, or good ones at least, are puzzle solving junkies.
moreshadowbans 3y ago
[flagged]
wahnfrieden 3y ago
Any interest in workers coops given that realization? I too realized I don’t want to manage/own workers nor be managed but there is a third way
pfannkuchen 3y ago
Do you feel that managing helped you in some ways with your later IC work or was it a waste of time?
- kstenerud 3y ago
  It helped me empathize with my manager more. And that's always a good thing.
cocacolacowboy 3y ago
[dead]
princevegeta89 3y ago
My personal opinion: After looking at my current manager and previous managers in my previous jobs I decided to never become a manager. Being a manager means that I'll have to fill my day with nothing but meetings I cannot skip, keep talking on and on and on, deal with delivery headaches, respond to requests even while on PTO, do a lot of context switching between Slack, email, calendar, documentation, and other things. I used to like that level of being "busy" but now it seems that having my focus time is the best thing ever.
- samstave 3y ago
  I made the mistake of entering management WAY too early in my career. I wish I had not. it relegated my time to many tasks other than tech implementation. FN having to train CFOs on financially managing cloud environs, managing people, pestering people for status reports, c-level presentations on this that and the other thing, etc... My biggest mistake in my career was thinking I was "climbing the ladder" when accepting a position as a manager, director etc...
  - hgsgm 3y ago
    Were you not climbing ? Was your pay not rising?
  - blastro 3y ago
    gulp
  - ed_mercer 3y ago
    I'm not sure there's a better way to climb the ladder though.
    - samstave 3y ago
      i did it too early.
    - yCombLinks 3y ago
      The point being it's the wrong ladder. I'll stick to the enjoying life more ladder
mechanicker 3y ago
I am on my 26th year as a programmer. I love the fact that I can imagine and also make it happen. However, I see a constant push from people around me to focus on creating a pipeline of ideas and let others implement them. Unfortunately, I do not see the same level of enthusiasm I have in implementing some of those ideas - could be due to lack of recognition since it is not their original idea. Once I retire, I will just go back to where it all started. Come up with an idea followed by implementation. The sheer pleasure of seeing your idea working in a reasonable timeframe is exhilarating!

sph 3y ago

You have twice my professional age, and I have come to the same realisation. I want to earn enough money from my business ideas to spend the rest of my time on hacking on niche languages, distributed/anonymous networks, etc. and as I grow older, to use computer and programming just to maintain a modern off-the-grid life (so working on my smart grid, automating my cabin-in-the-woods life) Computers and the Internet have gone from being a lifestyle, to just a tool.

Wensio 3y ago

Any advice for aspiriing programmers? I work full-time and go to school part-time so finding time / motiviation to practice and learn is incredibly difficult most days.

victor9000 3y ago

I took the same path and came to the same realization, yet my current architect role is still nothing but meetings. Ugh.

badpun 3y ago
"Architect" in most places is basically "code politician".
devnullbrain 3y ago
Code is easy, people are hard.
arvinsim 3y ago
Me, on the other hand, long to be an architect so that I can influence some technical decisions. Grass is always greener.
- sumtechguy 3y ago
  Dont be the architect be the guy who tells the architect what to do. Because they are too busy in meetings.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  You hope you can influence some technical decisions, but it's not just a title of architect that gives you authority, you need convincing and communication skills as well.
  - arvinsim 3y ago
    I think that's the best I can do if I want to stay in the engineering track.

marktolson 3y ago

Same path, but for the last 10 years i've been a CTO. Right now i'd kill for fewer meetings and more focus time. Starting to take its toll.

onion2k 3y ago
Hire an engineering manager and delegate.
- jksmith 3y ago
  Suggest wrong direction. Make teams more autonomous and develop the art of the backlog. Too much management is what's wrong with organizations these days.
andruby 3y ago
Make the changes you'd love to see. The CTO role is vague and broad and is defined differently in most companies anyway. You can delegate things to an engineering manager or director. Or if the company is large enough to a VP. find a cross-section of what is valuable for the company and what you like doing
- hgsgm 3y ago
  I don't think the Eng Dir will enjoy doing the CTO's job for the CTO. In 6 months Eng Dir would be in a meeting with the CEO asking the CEO to fix the glitch.

szundi 3y ago

I am not sure what I want more anymore. I love these periods of flow, but I am so good at integrating other people's work, making them agree on the best while being happy and feeling productive. Also flow makes time fly and I feel I would just die very soon, heh. Anyone feeling this too? But I crave this feeling very much anyway.

hgsgm 3y ago
I don't want to feel like I live longer by enjoying each moment less.
theshrike79 3y ago
This is my exact feeling :D I love coding and problem solving, but during my career I noticed that I'm _really_ good at getting technical people to communicate with each other and integrating their work. I try to do both, but I still don't know which I like more. I tried the full manager / chart drawing architect -route and I hated it. Just coding was a bit boring too in the long run, because I want to make an impact on the org-level and I'm incapable of shutting up if I see any inefficiencies that could be improved by communication.
- zachturn 3y ago
  > I'm incapable of shutting up if I see any inefficiencies that could be improved by communication This is one of my biggest struggles. I see so much flawed work and I can't help but voice my opinion, but I can't possibly dedicate time to try to fix it all, so I'm often afraid of just coming across as a complainer.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    My "problem" is that if/when I open my mouth, people give me more responsibilities. "Don't like how it's done? Now you're responsible for it." Granted I usually got a raise to go with it, but it was just admin work and not-coding - which I didn't like.
- morning-coffee 3y ago

vjk800 3y ago

I used to love the long periods of focus in my 20s, but ever since more life started happening, I can't do those anymore. It turns out my stress tolerance is incredibly low and when the life outside my work is not completely in order (like it rarely is after the 20s), being able to get into the flow state gets very difficult. I wish I was one of those people who could just forget the problems at home, etc. when they sit in front of the computer and start coding, but I can't, and as a result my ability to focused work has gone down a lot, and nowadays I do more "people work" simply because that's easier to do when my head is not in it 100%.

ryeguy_24 3y ago
Hmm, interesting. I'm 39 and used to have amazing flow sessions in late 20s and early 30s but not seeing them much anymore. I can't tell if it's because of stresses of life or simply because I don't have enough time (with 3 young kids) to allow myself to fall into a state of flow. I really hope it's not stresses or my brain changing because I really valued those periods of focus.
- phkahler 3y ago
  I think it's your kids. They should be your priority for now. You really can get back to tech stuff later. Phases of life and all that.
- jacobyoder 3y ago
  No kids here, but similar in that I remember sessions of long focus, and being able to do them repeatedly, for multiple days in a row. I typically can't do that as much now. Perhaps more to the point, I can't do them on demand. I do still have periods of 'focused flow', and they're great, but they just 'happen'. But... I never could just turn them on/off in the past either - they just happened far more frequently. I predict you'll have more, just not as frequently as you used to. :) FWIW, many of the things I used to have to spend long periods of focus on are now simple/common libraries that just didn't exist 30 years ago. Or, if they existed, there wasn't any convenient way of discovering them. So I find my productivity is still comparatively high, even with fewer number of flow states.

api 3y ago

Developers, or good ones at least, are puzzle solving junkies.

moreshadowbans 3y ago

[flagged]

wahnfrieden 3y ago

Any interest in workers coops given that realization? I too realized I don’t want to manage/own workers nor be managed but there is a third way

pfannkuchen 3y ago

Do you feel that managing helped you in some ways with your later IC work or was it a waste of time?

kstenerud 3y ago
It helped me empathize with my manager more. And that's always a good thing.

cocacolacowboy 3y ago

[dead]

princevegeta89 3y ago

My personal opinion: After looking at my current manager and previous managers in my previous jobs I decided to never become a manager. Being a manager means that I'll have to fill my day with nothing but meetings I cannot skip, keep talking on and on and on, deal with delivery headaches, respond to requests even while on PTO, do a lot of context switching between Slack, email, calendar, documentation, and other things. I used to like that level of being "busy" but now it seems that having my focus time is the best thing ever.

samstave 3y ago
I made the mistake of entering management WAY too early in my career. I wish I had not. it relegated my time to many tasks other than tech implementation. FN having to train CFOs on financially managing cloud environs, managing people, pestering people for status reports, c-level presentations on this that and the other thing, etc... My biggest mistake in my career was thinking I was "climbing the ladder" when accepting a position as a manager, director etc...
- hgsgm 3y ago
  Were you not climbing ? Was your pay not rising?
- blastro 3y ago
  gulp
- ed_mercer 3y ago
  I'm not sure there's a better way to climb the ladder though.
  - samstave 3y ago
    i did it too early.
  - yCombLinks 3y ago
    The point being it's the wrong ladder. I'll stick to the enjoying life more ladder

mechanicker 3y ago

I am on my 26th year as a programmer. I love the fact that I can imagine and also make it happen. However, I see a constant push from people around me to focus on creating a pipeline of ideas and let others implement them. Unfortunately, I do not see the same level of enthusiasm I have in implementing some of those ideas - could be due to lack of recognition since it is not their original idea. Once I retire, I will just go back to where it all started. Come up with an idea followed by implementation. The sheer pleasure of seeing your idea working in a reasonable timeframe is exhilarating!