11 ms·
A rant on bus stops
- Chris_arnade 3y agoMy write-up on the recent LA bus stop fiasco
- bombcar 3y agoThe obvious solution (go to low regulation low trust) is likely impossible because of how rich we are.
- PaulHoule 3y agoIn some sense U.S. regulation is the best in the world in that we’ve led on many health and safety issues such as suppressing tobacco smoking, nutritional labeling, airbags in cars, airplanes, etc.
- rippercushions 3y agoThis statement contain chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm.
- the_third_wave 3y ago[flagged]
- civilitty 3y ago[flagged]
- cschep 3y agowonderfully written, thank you!
- angarg12 3y agoThanks for writing this, I like the trust/regulation mental model. I can also use it to explain my experiences as a European immigrant in the US. One of the biggest differences I feel is how belligerent and litigious American society is. Would you say this is one of the causes of this outcome? (i.e. when people are worried about being sued, they'd do the smallest and safest thing possible). Anyway it'd be great to read more posts on this topic, and see examples of cultures you consider low trust/low regulation.
- kika 3y agoNot exactly fiasco. Some smart ppl spent $300k to jetset across the world for "research". They definitely do not consider that a fiasco!
- hunglee2 3y agogreat write up, love the observational acuity - credit to author for both the travelling and the awareness to notice the differences. The Taipei bus stop reminds me a great deal of the stuff you see in rural Hong Kong - local residents basically hauling out an old couch for people to use if gov didn't provide the seating.
- BMc2020 3y agoWe used to have rent subsidies, mental hospitals, all night movie theaters. All gone.
- klooney 3y agoWe still have rent subsidies...
- Pigalowda 3y agoI live in an apartment with neighbors who are subsidized, there’s a psychiatric hospital in every major city, and all night movie theaters would exist if there was a market for them. If you think there’s a market and money to be made - start your own
- rippercushions 3y ago> If you think there’s a market and money to be made - start your own I'm genuinely unsure if this is a parody of the American Way here. "There's no problem here, but if there was, the free market will solve it!"
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Liquid_Snake 3y ago[flagged]
- cwalv 3y ago> I'm genuinely unsure if this is a parody of the American Way here They said 2 of the 3 things we "used to" have we still actually have, and the 3rd thing is a waste of money because nobody wants it. It seems inauthentic to you to say that there's not enough demand to support all night movie theaters?
- 1letterunixname 3y agoI'm sorry, but you don't appear to know the history of or what you're talking about. The collapse of mental healthcare in the US was due to JFK admin's hasty transition from institutional to community-based treatment without a functioning parallel system. And, it remained unfinished without a proper replacement because subsequent administrations neglected it. Reagan finished it off by ruining California's mental healthcare system and then the country's. The Regan's M.O. was to defund or ignore anything they couldn't relate to. How many Americans died needlessly from inaction on HIV/AIDS and manufactured crack epidemic as part of Iran-Contra is up for debate. As such, in the modern day, many persons who need treatment do not receive it. And those who cannot function are often left to remain homeless and on the fringes. Interestingly, the Cook County Sheriff's Office (Chicago) admins one of the more effective community mental healthcare systems because it's cheaper than locking people up and throwing away the key or bringing them to the ER every other night. Mental healthcare saves money, saves lives, and saves misery.
- best_one_there 3y ago[dead]
- ajuc 3y agoBecause homelessness. Because medical bankrupcy and opioid crisis. Caused by THE SAME industry. Nobody's responsible. Because USA is designed by and for small groups of people owning the companies providing for ridiculous money at insane conditions what everywhere else is cheap or free and well regulated.
- JKCalhoun 3y agoSo unbridled Capitalism?
- Retric 3y agoCapitalism doesn’t inherently mean companies get to alter the laws to favor themselves or government should decide winners and losers with bailouts. That’s a function of the political system involved. This is something else. In some ways it’s closest too feudalism where the rule of law is subservient to various powerful entities and limited competition exists parallel to various monopolies. Though obviously it’s very different from the historical examples of feudal societies.
- Inityx 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism
- krapp 3y agoThat's oligarchy, which is still capitalism.
- Retric 3y agoOligarchy doesn’t have anything to do with capitalism. The Roman Senate for example was really an aristocracy rather than what we would consider business leaders as power often flowed from parent to child within powerful families. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Senate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Senate
- 3y ago
- verall 3y agoYou wrote the blog post I've been thinking about writing for years. It's clear and simple and to the point. What you describe occurs constantly in every American city. Thank you.
- api 3y agoSomething I’ve always noticed across the US political landscape: people really don’t like spending money to directly help people (mental health care, institutions, public housing, addiction recovery programs) but are fine with wasting money in weird ways like having this non profit travel the world to learn how to put up a sun shade. It’s like the thing Americans dislike isn’t spending the money but the idea of helping the wrong sorts of people. I’m sure that non profit was full of mostly white college graduates. Tossing money their way is fine even if it doesn’t accomplish much or anything. Let the addicts die on the street.
- Eumenes 3y agoIdk if anyone is fine with those examples you mentioned. Unelected bureaucrats get to pick where this money goes. Also, not sure why you had to throw out race.
- gavaw 3y agoAs the country gets more heterogeneous, people will want less to help others, as they know they won't be helping their own.
- Avshalom 3y agoEven for the pettiest shit. https://daily.jstor.org/when-cities-closed-pools-to-avoid-integration/ https://daily.jstor.org/when-cities-closed-pools-to-avoid-in... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_v._Thompson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_v._Thompson
- aksss 3y ago> directly help people Indirect, I think you mean, and probably because people generally don’t trust their money to be spent well by institutions, and it’s not hard to figure out why. Americans lead the world in charitable giving and much of that is more direct - anonymously giving money to help a church member or giving money to local charities both are avenues with more visible impact.
- pixl97 3y agoIt's not hard to figure out why, this is the Southern Strategy in action. After decades of dissolving institutions in the US and handing over the power to corporations we're finally getting our comeuppance.
- antisthenes 3y agoSome points in the article are hit and miss, but mostly correct. For example, Istanbul is flourishing because it's the Turkish capital, so it necessarily is the most dense and rich city in the country. The high trust is a positive factor, but plenty of more rural cities and towns in Turkey look quite dumpy (perhaps not as bad a Philly, though) The pictures don't really support that either. They depict a fairly average state of urban infrastructure, nothing particularly inviting or welcoming. The people look friendly though, as the culture actively discourages drug use and vice.
- bergie 3y agoIstanbul is a big city, but is not the capital. It was the capital of the Ottoman Empire, and before that the East Roman Empire, though.
- pfannkuchen 3y agoToo close to the border?
- em-bee 3y agoconstantinople was occupied by the allies after WWI, causing the turkish resistance to set up headquarters in angora which was later renamed to ankara. after the war of independence they decided to make ankara the capital of the new republic
- esafak 3y agoThe name Ankara was in use by the Seljuks and then the Ottomans since the 16th century, according to Wikipedia: https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankara_(isim) https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankara_(isim)
- koreth1 3y ago> Istanbul is flourishing because it's the Turkish capital The capital of Turkey is Ankara, not Istanbul.
- fbdab103 3y ago>A removal of resources for the majority, because of concerns over “misuse” of less than one percent of residents. Ah yes, the American way. The same justification I have heard as to why bathroom stalls need to have gaps and be unpleasant, "What if someone were to have sex and/or do drugs in there?!" Let them do it, just let me have a minor moment of privacy while I am pooping.
- permo-w 3y agoit’s not just in America. all over Europe you have "hostile architecture"[1]; for example, benches designed to be uncomfortable so that homeless people don’t sleep on them [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture
- goodpoint 3y ago...very rarely to the extent of US.
- rippercushions 3y agoThere is a lot more of this in the US than anywhere else in the world though, and that's because the US also has by far the worst homeless problem.
- high_priest 3y agoWell. Allowing for 'safe haven' for drug abusers in 'private' spaces comes with the side effect of attracting unsanitary behavior aswell, not letting you have a 'poopoo-peepee' time whatsoever.
- Georgelemental 3y ago"Anarcho-tyranny" describes this so perfectly. If a tiny minority of bad behaving people of people is making things worse for all of us, we could choose to help, punish, or sequester that minority, as appropriate. But instead, it's the majority that must suffer in accommodation.
- wilg 3y agoThe TL;DR here is that California has a housing crisis, which caused homelessness, which caused people to look into a bus stop design which doesn’t serve as a proper shelter. Here’s a data-driven argument that homelessness is a problem with lack of homes, more so than mental health or drugs or whatever else: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-... Fixing housing will have a lot of great downstream effects.
- Pigalowda 3y agoWhat’s with these “data-driven” nonsense posts? You live in a west coast city? Go outside! Use your eyeballs! You think the naked guy who’s floridly psychotic and taking a dump on the sidewalk would be A OK with a cheap dwelling? The people smoking fentanyl at the train station and on the buses? They just need a little house and they’ll be fine? Such utter neoliberal nonsense.
- Avshalom 3y agoWell if they had houses they'd be naked and shitting in their house, if they had housing they'd be smoking fentanyl in their house. So at least y'all'd stop going on and fucking on about "open air drug markets" and "the city looks like something out of mad max". It might not solve their problems, but it would solve yours.
- Pigalowda 3y agoNo - it doesn’t solve anything. Some cheap crappy collection of houses that are “maintained” by whom? The psychotics and fentanyl users? The “solution” creates a ghetto that has to be maintained by city expenditure. And after that dumb expensive mess fails, then what? Maybe that’s your neolib solution this entire time - ghettos. Typical.
- Avshalom 3y agoneoliberalism is (broadly) an ideology that markets are/will-find the optimal solution for everything. Giving people housing, not being a market-based-solution, is not neoliberalism. Also yes, maintained by city expenditure, it's been shown time and time again that housing is way fucking cheaper than a combination of policing and emergency medicine. that's not even to touch the moral/ethical imperative that human life has intrinsic value and we should strive to provide everyone with the resources and dignity that they need. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you made me welcome, lacking clothes and you clothed me, sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me. If it fails, then what is the question you need to answer, because my answer is: keep trying.
- psychlops 3y agoThe US doesn't have a homeless problem, California has a homeless problem.
- pyuser583 3y agoI was stunned when I first saw San Francisco. I’ve traveled a lot, and never seen anything like it. It’s like a gigantic refugee camp. That’s not something you see in any other major city, including California. That’s not “America” - that’s San Francisco.
- Eumenes 3y agoYou're correct, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_homeless_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_ho...
- teaearlgraycold 3y agoI don’t know if it’s that simple. It’s gotten a lot worse in Philadelphia in the last few years, and there were still quite a few homeless in Philly when I was there before the new status quo.
- psychlops 3y agoIt's gotten worse but then I live in the NYC area. NY is second (by far) to only California.
- esafak 3y agoBecause the rest of the US sends them to California. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...
- psychlops 3y agoI know I'll only get downvoted by more californians, but can't resist the relevant southpark link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsrBlKpbBS8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsrBlKpbBS8
- renewiltord 3y agoI’m sure some aspect of this is the North American culture of high credentialism. Everything must be done by “properly trained” “experts” and whatnot. During the pandemic people on Han were talking about how N95 masks need you to be trained by professionals in a fit test. It’s a 15 min video on the 3M site… Here’s the facts: I can do almost any job well without needing extensive training. But credentialism gets in the way of my helping myself and others.
- Eumenes 3y agoAgreed. I recently had a conversation with an immigrant nurse from Bosnia, but in the US, her credentials only allow her to be a CNA. She literally had the same nursing job in Bosnia but now gets 1/4th of the pay to clean up poop. There's a nursing shortage too. The higher education system in the US is insanely corrupt and has massive reach with licensure.
- Ferret7446 3y agoPerhaps you can, but how can someone who doesn't know you trust that you can?
- renewiltord 3y agoAh but here's the thing: for things that affect me alone, perhaps just let me do it. An alternative, that I believe could be effective, is a bond that is paid into and managed in a similar way as 401k plans are. E.g. say I want to try heroin. I furnish the $250k into the fund, get to try it, and 4 y later I get my money back if I pass a heroin drug test.
- Georgelemental 3y ago> a high-regulation/low-trust society like the US It used to be, we were the other way around.
- cptroot 3y agoI think memories of a low-regulation/high-trust society are hard to reconcile with America's long struggle with racial integration.
- Georgelemental 3y agoYes, that has always been the glaring exception. Our original sin
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- fortran77 3y agoIt's infuriating to learn that LA spends taxpayer money to send bus stop designers on overseas junkets.
- rippercushions 3y agoI found that to be the least infuriating thing in the article.
- Nevermark 3y agoI disagree. The US could be importing a lot more ideas than it does. When living in other countries than the US, it has always been notable to me how often conversations about almost anything involved considering how other countries did things. But after drawing on the world for better ideas, you would expect better results.
- vegetablepotpie 3y agoAmerica could benefit from looking at what other countries are doing and implement the best ideas to improve quality of life in the US. La Sombrita, however, is a uniquely American invention, designed by Americans, to solve American problems within the constraints imposed by America. LA spent $300k on a bus stop that neither provides the homeless population with any benefits, nor provides the ridership with shade nor adequate lighting.
- ryandrake 3y agoYou can import ideas from other countries without paying for airfare, hotel, and meals for people to jaunt off to essentially vacation in those countries.
- jaredklewis 3y agoMaybe if they had a little more to show for it I could be more understanding. Money has a lot of good uses; I feel certain the $300k spent on this POS design could have a far greater impact elsewhere. Travel is great, but in a pinch you can find most of the world’s great ideas are written down in books or on the internet. The difference in cost is quite substantial.
- teaearlgraycold 3y agoIn America you’re expected to be your own king. Any problem with public spaces, public transit, etc. is deemed a personal failing because you aren’t able to afford your own limousine to shuttle you from your castle to your friend’s.
- jmerz 3y agoAs someone who currently spends time on two continents it's always jarring to return to the USA. The first thing that hits you is the wealth. The second is the wealth disparity. The third is the dysfunction. It's truly a remarkable place but often feels like a rocket ship pulling itself apart at the seams—a lot of exceptional velocity and a ton of social problems that just no one can seem to get a grip on.
- kika 3y agoI'm happy I don't live in California anymore. Although some of my taxes were spent on these gender equal shades, I left 13 months ago.
- BaseballPhysics 3y agoYou didn't have to bring in your entirely tangential culture war hobby horse, but ya did it anyway. Congrats. I don't know if your goal is to troll, but this is how you do it!
- nine_zeros 3y agoOh yes, the old, "Everyone gotta have ID because what if there is voter fraud"...even if it eliminates the right to vote for some people. "Everyone gotta get preauthorization from insurance because what if there is insurance fraud"....even if the delay kills someone on the hospital bed. "Everyone gotta carry REAL ID because what if some people are illegal"...even if the delay in getting REAL ID causes legal people to lose their jobs. The only place this "Everyone gotta do XYZ" trope doesn't apply is in gun licensing and arms background checks. I have said this in the past, but I will say this again: "America is a country based on denial of rights". And that one statement explains all the history of America - slavery, red-lining, captive insurance, broken legal immigration, broken college admissions, school-districting etc.
- samstave 3y ago>"America is a country based on denial of rights" "America masquerades as a country based on Freedom, where a democracy gets to vote on politicians whose sole purpose is personal wealth-growth and/through the denial of others' rights ; to protect the former"
- kika 3y agoLine 5 and 6 seem to contradict each other. From 5 it looks like you want to more "gun licensing" and in line 6 you want not to "deny rights". Whereas gun licensing (any licensing, technically speaking) is the denial of right. And any argument (of which there are many valid ones) for gun licensing is precisely what you're arguing against: "Everyone gotta have The Gun License because think of the children" ... even if it deprives someone from the right to protect their life.
- nine_zeros 3y agoI think you missed the part where I say: "The only place this "Everyone gotta do XYZ" trope doesn't apply" This means that the only place where the denial of rights is not applied systematically is in gun rights. Another way to read it is: Every other right is treated worse than gun rights. And that is unfair to any unbiased observer.
- Animats 3y ago[flagged]
- kika 3y agoword combo "final solution" as applied to some human population has a very strong stink. also, wow, weed in the same category as opium and company. wow.
- classified 3y agoDo you seriously want to see this in the US?
- tmnvix 3y agoAlternatively, the US could be coming around to the realisation that it's time to address its addiction to exploiting people. I've known a lot of people that use drugs recreationally. The proportion of those that abuse drugs is small. That group almost invariably are in a bad situation before they compound it with drug use. Exploitation is damaging. In my opinion, fewer exploited people means fewer damaged lives means less drug abuse.
- mafribe 3y ago> lot of people that use drugs recreationally. We all know them. HN is full of them. They are the reason why the production and distribution of drugs is financially viable, why we have functioning markets for illegal drugs. Consequently they, together with the producers and distributors, bear the responsibility for the cost that the existence of this well-lubricated market has on the weak, on those who cannot handle hard drugs recreationally.
- theGnuMe 3y agoI think we've become increasingly anti-human. Everything must be monetized and transactional including basic interactions. We argue that everything has a cost instead of growing the pie. To be human is to be connected in our shared humanity. Instead we build walls or worse, fail by default design to build 'connections' between us and prefer to insulate and isolate ourselves in socio-economic psychological safety.
- pixl97 3y agoMoloch demands profit.
- Gibbon1 3y agoMy belief is a lot of this can be traced back to bonkers and completely discredited theories like social Darwinism, behaviorism, post Keynesian Economics. Mix those in with greed, cold war nihilism, and various ethno-supremacist ideologies and here we are.
- ankaAr 3y agoAs Argentinian, and particularly, from Buenos Aires, one thing that I hate from US is the lack of public transportation network, bus stops and people that don't know the concept of line-up.
- jimvdv 3y agoTo be fair Buenos Aires queueing is on another level, neatest I’ve ever seen.
- thefz 3y agoSee, Americans grow up thinking that they are the best, and that socialism is there to rob you of your well earned pay. The irony in this is that capitalism instead is the root cause of all the dysfunction and more socialism, not less, would be the only solution to modern American problems. The claim of greatness is obviously false; the failing of public infrastructure, healthcare and education is a common denominator of third world countries in my opinion, not of: > Especially not when compared to the rest of the world, which is all poorer than us. Often much poorer. Ever been to Switzerland? I wouldn't state it is poorer than the US. Not even the average EU country is.