6 ms·

People in the U.S. Think They Are Better Than They Are. Asians Don’t

44 points by vinnyvichy 3y ago

rektide 3y ago
> In our newest area of research—cultural neuroscience—we find that the neural pathways that support positive illusions are absent in certain communities. Fairly depressing an idea. How are you ever supposed to find out whether your better prospective aspects & potentials are illusion, delusion, or real unless you give it a shot?
- giantg2 3y ago
  Wouldn't it be more depressing to find out they were delusions than to know your purpose/place from the beginning?
- Barrin92 3y ago
  I don't think a more accurate perception of one's own potential is depressing. Giving things a shot has costs. If you undertake risky or costly ventures because you have an inflated idea of your own abilities, most people are going to cause themselves real harm, and others too for that matter. The happiest countries in the world are generally the Nordics and the Dutch, known for shunning this sort of exceptionalism.
  - rektide 3y ago
    How do we know what is accurate though? We have to try to actually find out, no? How do we know we aren't underbidding ourselves?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
4pkjai 3y ago
Often I find Americans have a lot more confidence in their skills than they should.
- spacephysics 3y ago
  Full armchair conjecture, but if someone has more confidence in their skills than they should, typically that leads them to try things that they otherwise may not have attempted? Seeing failure as a precondition to improvement seems more valuable to me, than the inverse of: I’m not as skilled as I think I am, therefore I will not try XYZ thing. This then is a feedback loop of either slower or “negative” improvement overtime. This goes without saying that for some cases over confidence can be detrimental: I was confident I was a good snow boarder despite going only a few times years back, and decided to start back up going down a blue trail, only to end up needing knee surgery.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    "I’m not as skilled as I think I am, therefore I will not try XYZ thing." Or you try it knowing there is a learning curve and that you will never be great. People can still participate and enjoy things knowing they are only mediocre at that.
    - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
      That's me with programming, and it's my favorite pastime regardless. :D
  - re-thc 3y ago
    > but if someone has more confidence in their skills than they should, typically that leads them to try things that they otherwise may not have attempted? Not always. They can also be blinded by the current state of things instead of thinking of new solutions or challenging the status quo. People can be over confident in their code and refuse to write tests or their assumptions based on old knowledge and go down the wrong path...
- keyle 3y ago
  Agreed, but somehow they end up pulling it off on the other side, so who knows...
joenot443 3y ago
Growing up in Canada, I remember asking my parents why it was okay to make fun of Americans, but not people from any other country. The answer didn’t make much sense at the time, but I chalked it up as something that I’d understand as an adult. Now as an adult I still don’t really get it. Reminding themselves of their own perceived inferiority seems like a uniquely rich-American past time. Do you think Scientific Brazil (if it existed) would release a study broadly painting its citizens in such a bad light? What if the study had found the opposite, that Americans broadly displayed some positive trait more than their Asian counterparts, would such a study even be allowed to be published? I certainly can’t imagine it being received well, if it were. The country which has more people (by a long shot) spending their lives trying to become citizens also has the most present citizens vocally declaring it a broken failure. It’s just never really made much sense to me.
- cumshitpiss 3y ago
  [dead]
- sfpotter 3y ago
  A lot of the people declaring it broken don’t want it to fail.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  > I remember asking my parents why it was okay to make fun of Americans, but not people from any other country. A bit like in europe where you can criticise germany all you want. Since they know their worth and are secure enough they wont mind. Some may even jump in. Similarly east europeans dont hesitate to criticise their own countries. Criticise south europe and you’ll never hear the end of it. The US is secure enough for critical self reflection. Canada and brazil not so much.
  - iinnPP 3y ago
    Canadians make light of themselves all the time. Americans are not really "known" for critical self reflection, the opposite maybe. Just look at the slew of jokes about traveling abroad and claiming to be Canadian. Now if you want to see Canadian "politeness" in action, read the comment section on CBC.
psychomugs 3y ago
As an Asian American, yes.
caseyw 3y ago
As an American and working with a lot of really smart people over my career in IT, I don’t see this happening. I find most people I’ve come across suffer from imposter syndrome. Those I know outside IT work, get paid and spend time with family. I don’t really see any superiority. That’s just my perspective on a small part of the world. Have a great weekend all!
- throwaway894345 3y ago
  I wonder if this study is accidentally measuring people’s perception of their potential. I struggle a fair amount with public speaking; it’s a phobia for me, but I also know that I am capable of overcoming it if I prioritize it. So maybe I would seem to think I’m better than I am if the methodology accidentally conflates my belief about my potential with my belief about my current state?
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Maybe not even with their own potential but others'. For example, nearly everyone feels that their kids are special high performers in the US, or at least hope they are. We can't all be above average. I've heard that the Japanese have a different way of viewing it - that they hope for average since that's logically what they will get, but still push for fulfilling one's full potential.
- throwaway33381 3y ago
  This happens due to the fact that working in IT what you see instead is that individuals they deem inferior are not hired. Racism is a very big think in both Asian and American Culture. In systems such as the University of Texas we see outcomes for Hispanics that receive degrees in technology. They just don't get jobs. The results of it are easily translated over for other ethnicities with the notable exception of African Americans which Texas surprisingly has very few African Americans and even less with a bachelors degree or higher. It tells us a lot firstly that there is a limit to the amount of minorities that are hired every year and that it's artificially set by a group of people systemically due to varying biases, often a sense of superiority. I could list the two groups that actively participate in this but doing so is pointless.
Handprint4469 3y ago
As always, treat any social science research with a huge grain of salt [0,1]. This goes double for opinion pieces, and any kind of media coverage of psychology research. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20180219143031/https://putanumonit.com/2017/06/20/the-battle-for-psychology/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180219143031/https://putanumon... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oajlP-rqQr4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oajlP-rqQr4
avidphantasm 3y ago
If all you hear all the time is that yours is the greatest country on earth, even if it was true at one point, before long it will cease to be true. Same goes for people.
- throwaway894345 3y ago
  Honestly I kind of think there’s a feedback loop working in the other direction. If you believe that you are capable, you’re more likely to try new things and if you’re really lucky, you fail a lot and learn a ton, which incidentally makes you more capable than you would be if you had a small worldview. Maybe that sort of positivity at the scale of an entire society has made America a greater country than it would have been if Americans were as pessimistic as their critics (both foreign and native) try to make them feel?
andreareina 3y ago
Actual title: "People in the U.S. Think They Are Better Than They Actually Are. People in Asia Don’t" It's still going to stir some shit
GiorgioG 3y ago
This is article is a complete load of bullshit. I know tons of people who are more humble than they should be in the US and they're all successful people. It's difficult generalize about an entire country of 330m people.

44 points by vinnyvichy 3y ago

> In our newest area of research—cultural neuroscience—we find that the neural pathways that support positive illusions are absent in certain communities. Fairly depressing an idea. How are you ever supposed to find out whether your better prospective aspects & potentials are illusion, delusion, or real unless you give it a shot?

giantg2 3y ago
Wouldn't it be more depressing to find out they were delusions than to know your purpose/place from the beginning?
Barrin92 3y ago
I don't think a more accurate perception of one's own potential is depressing. Giving things a shot has costs. If you undertake risky or costly ventures because you have an inflated idea of your own abilities, most people are going to cause themselves real harm, and others too for that matter. The happiest countries in the world are generally the Nordics and the Dutch, known for shunning this sort of exceptionalism.
- rektide 3y ago
  How do we know what is accurate though? We have to try to actually find out, no? How do we know we aren't underbidding ourselves?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

4pkjai 3y ago

Often I find Americans have a lot more confidence in their skills than they should.

spacephysics 3y ago
Full armchair conjecture, but if someone has more confidence in their skills than they should, typically that leads them to try things that they otherwise may not have attempted? Seeing failure as a precondition to improvement seems more valuable to me, than the inverse of: I’m not as skilled as I think I am, therefore I will not try XYZ thing. This then is a feedback loop of either slower or “negative” improvement overtime. This goes without saying that for some cases over confidence can be detrimental: I was confident I was a good snow boarder despite going only a few times years back, and decided to start back up going down a blue trail, only to end up needing knee surgery.
- giantg2 3y ago
  "I’m not as skilled as I think I am, therefore I will not try XYZ thing." Or you try it knowing there is a learning curve and that you will never be great. People can still participate and enjoy things knowing they are only mediocre at that.
  - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
    That's me with programming, and it's my favorite pastime regardless. :D
- re-thc 3y ago
  > but if someone has more confidence in their skills than they should, typically that leads them to try things that they otherwise may not have attempted? Not always. They can also be blinded by the current state of things instead of thinking of new solutions or challenging the status quo. People can be over confident in their code and refuse to write tests or their assumptions based on old knowledge and go down the wrong path...
keyle 3y ago
Agreed, but somehow they end up pulling it off on the other side, so who knows...

joenot443 3y ago

Growing up in Canada, I remember asking my parents why it was okay to make fun of Americans, but not people from any other country. The answer didn’t make much sense at the time, but I chalked it up as something that I’d understand as an adult. Now as an adult I still don’t really get it. Reminding themselves of their own perceived inferiority seems like a uniquely rich-American past time. Do you think Scientific Brazil (if it existed) would release a study broadly painting its citizens in such a bad light? What if the study had found the opposite, that Americans broadly displayed some positive trait more than their Asian counterparts, would such a study even be allowed to be published? I certainly can’t imagine it being received well, if it were. The country which has more people (by a long shot) spending their lives trying to become citizens also has the most present citizens vocally declaring it a broken failure. It’s just never really made much sense to me.

cumshitpiss 3y ago
[dead]
sfpotter 3y ago
A lot of the people declaring it broken don’t want it to fail.
gumballindie 3y ago
> I remember asking my parents why it was okay to make fun of Americans, but not people from any other country. A bit like in europe where you can criticise germany all you want. Since they know their worth and are secure enough they wont mind. Some may even jump in. Similarly east europeans dont hesitate to criticise their own countries. Criticise south europe and you’ll never hear the end of it. The US is secure enough for critical self reflection. Canada and brazil not so much.
- iinnPP 3y ago
  Canadians make light of themselves all the time. Americans are not really "known" for critical self reflection, the opposite maybe. Just look at the slew of jokes about traveling abroad and claiming to be Canadian. Now if you want to see Canadian "politeness" in action, read the comment section on CBC.

psychomugs 3y ago

As an Asian American, yes.

caseyw 3y ago

As an American and working with a lot of really smart people over my career in IT, I don’t see this happening. I find most people I’ve come across suffer from imposter syndrome. Those I know outside IT work, get paid and spend time with family. I don’t really see any superiority. That’s just my perspective on a small part of the world. Have a great weekend all!

throwaway894345 3y ago
I wonder if this study is accidentally measuring people’s perception of their potential. I struggle a fair amount with public speaking; it’s a phobia for me, but I also know that I am capable of overcoming it if I prioritize it. So maybe I would seem to think I’m better than I am if the methodology accidentally conflates my belief about my potential with my belief about my current state?
- giantg2 3y ago
  Maybe not even with their own potential but others'. For example, nearly everyone feels that their kids are special high performers in the US, or at least hope they are. We can't all be above average. I've heard that the Japanese have a different way of viewing it - that they hope for average since that's logically what they will get, but still push for fulfilling one's full potential.
throwaway33381 3y ago
This happens due to the fact that working in IT what you see instead is that individuals they deem inferior are not hired. Racism is a very big think in both Asian and American Culture. In systems such as the University of Texas we see outcomes for Hispanics that receive degrees in technology. They just don't get jobs. The results of it are easily translated over for other ethnicities with the notable exception of African Americans which Texas surprisingly has very few African Americans and even less with a bachelors degree or higher. It tells us a lot firstly that there is a limit to the amount of minorities that are hired every year and that it's artificially set by a group of people systemically due to varying biases, often a sense of superiority. I could list the two groups that actively participate in this but doing so is pointless.

Handprint4469 3y ago

As always, treat any social science research with a huge grain of salt [0,1]. This goes double for opinion pieces, and any kind of media coverage of psychology research. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20180219143031/https://putanumonit.com/2017/06/20/the-battle-for-psychology/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180219143031/https://putanumon... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oajlP-rqQr4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oajlP-rqQr4

avidphantasm 3y ago

If all you hear all the time is that yours is the greatest country on earth, even if it was true at one point, before long it will cease to be true. Same goes for people.

throwaway894345 3y ago
Honestly I kind of think there’s a feedback loop working in the other direction. If you believe that you are capable, you’re more likely to try new things and if you’re really lucky, you fail a lot and learn a ton, which incidentally makes you more capable than you would be if you had a small worldview. Maybe that sort of positivity at the scale of an entire society has made America a greater country than it would have been if Americans were as pessimistic as their critics (both foreign and native) try to make them feel?

andreareina 3y ago

Actual title: "People in the U.S. Think They Are Better Than They Actually Are. People in Asia Don’t" It's still going to stir some shit

GiorgioG 3y ago

This is article is a complete load of bullshit. I know tons of people who are more humble than they should be in the US and they're all successful people. It's difficult generalize about an entire country of 330m people.