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Can America Go Car-Free? Gen Z Hopes So
- hochmartinez 3y ago"... Studies show that riding trains tends to be 20–30 times safer than driving, and riding buses is as much as 60 times as safe..."
- Eumenes 3y agoJust better hope you aren't in there with crazy homeless/drug addicts
- kristo 3y ago[flagged]
- bigyikes 3y agoHow about comfortable?
- Kuinox 3y agoYou can sleep in the train. Can you while driving a car ?
- Eumenes 3y agoDid a decade on public transportation, I'm too old for that shit now. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to be in an open air human zoo several times per day.
- malermeister 3y agoThere isn't. But the fix isn't to isolate yourself from society in a metal box, it's basic empathy and making sure those folks get the help they need and aren't forced into those situations in the first place.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Eumenes 3y agoI already pay taxes homie, I don't owe anything to violent and self destructive strangers on the subway.
- malermeister 3y ago... and that attitude is why your country is broken beyond repair. If you feel like basic empathy is something you don't "owe" to your fellow humans, how can you hope to ever have a functioning society?
- shrimp_emoji 3y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_homeless_population https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_... It seems most other countries are as or way more broken as regards caring for our unhoused neighbors.
- malermeister 3y agoIt's almost like there's more than one problem to be solved in American society. People being in that state is an indictment of the US mental health system [0] and the terrible inequality forcing them on the streets [1], not an endorsement of cars, a selfish band-aid that exacerbates the bigger issues. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1035561/mental-hospital-bed-rate-by-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1035561/mental-hospital-... [1]https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0002716220981864 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0002716220981864
- Eumenes 3y agoWe can thank Reagan for repealing the MHSA
- mordae 3y agoYou should see the public transportation outside US! It's terrible how they are nice and convenient spaces. Must be all the communism.
- swexbe 3y agoNormal countries don't have these issues (to the same extent atleast).
- shrimp_emoji 3y agoBy "normal", do you mean the most affluent Western European nations with heavily-developed public transit systems? Cuz that's exceptional, not normal.
- slackfan 3y ago[flagged]
- kristo 3y agoConsider the pro car propaganda
- slackfan 3y agoYes, please show me some.
- cumshitpiss 3y ago[dead]
- thorncorona 3y agoFunny right. It’s almost like there’s people who enjoy living in walkable cities.
- kristo 3y agoFor real
- BirAdam 3y agoFunny right, it’s almost like there are people who can afford to live in a place where you can walk everywhere you need to go…
- paulgb 3y agoPlaces where you can walk everywhere are expensive because demand for them is higher than supply. The argument of anti-car people is that we should stop artificially limiting supply of mid-density housing by allowing NIMBYs to block development of it.
- slackfan 3y agoFunny, because people who enjoy living in the middle of nowhere constantly put out articles about how cities are ruining the environment (hilariously, they are).
- TinkersW 3y agoI think major high densities cities such as SF & Chicago would benefit from banning cars, but outside of those places it makes little sense.
- api 3y agoThere’s a whole bunch of people who live in dense cities who have seemingly forgotten about the rest of the country and are totally delusional on this issue. “We don’t even need EVs! We should decarbonize by just building trains!” What planet are these people on? I love walkable cities and towns and I think we should build more urban real estate like this. I also think we should in fact build more transit where density makes it make sense. There is absolutely zero chance that the suburbs or rural living are going away. There are also thousands of small to medium sized towns that while they could be made more walkable are too small for trains and people need to get between them. The amount of rail you’d have to build to connect all these and the number of trains you’d have to run would be astronomical. You’d have to run lots of empty trains to make sure there was continuous service too. People are not going to wait 6 hours in the country to go to the next town over.
- tetha 3y ago> I love walkable cities and towns and I think we should build more urban real estate like this. I also think we should in fact build more transit where density makes it make sense. That's largely how it looks e.g. in Hamburg and around Hamburg. Inside of Hamburg, some people own cars for transportation or family reasons, but many people inside of Hamburg don't own cars and rent transportation as necessary, since they don't even need it often. Once you get out of Hamburg into the more rural and village-y germany, cars and bicycles are becoming much more necessary, because the next store could easily be a 20 minute car drive away. This tends to be worse in the US. However, if people need to get into Hamburg, many people tend to drive to a subway station nearby of the collector subways, park there and use transit to get into Hamburg, because the traffic can be a nightmare. It's by no means perfect, since getting up from south of the Elbe is still a bit of a hassle with the public transit, but it works. In my book, that's the most useful approach to take.
- ThunderSizzle 3y agoMeh. There's no reason for car free. Cars are a very useful tool. The problem is being a slave to the tool. Every promoter of alternative designs assumes we need to destroy almost every car. Good luck.
- aqme28 3y ago> Every promoter of alternative designs assumes we need to destroy almost every car. I have never seen anyone promote this, and I run in a very heavy "fuck cars" circle. I have, however, seen a lot of people think that we promote this, and I don't know why. Example: someone proposes a new bike lane. Pushback will invariably come in the form of “how are people who can’t bike supposed to use this?” But they can still drive, all we’ve done is add an option.
- meepmorp 3y agoBecause cars have been at the center of US (at least) urban plan planning for decades, and when you stop privileging one thing vs others, sometimes people perceive that as an attack on the no-longer-privileged thing. This same situation happens with more than just cars.
- refurb 3y ago"Car ownership in America is on the rise. Only 8.3% of households did not have a vehicle in 2021, a 5.7% decrease from 2017, when 8.8% of households did not have a vehicle. Most households (91.7%) had at least one vehicle in 2021, up from 91.2% in 2017." https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/car-ownership-statistics https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/car-ownership-s... Seems like we're headed in the opposite direction to be honest.
- danielrpa 3y agoI like cars and don't want to ride trains or buses. I prefer the freedom and isolation of driving my own large car. I'm willing to spend less on other things than to let go of my car. When cars are illegal, I'll stop driving, so if you want that to happen you should try writing to your representative.
- acchow 3y agoThat’s great. Then you should keep enjoying your car. I just hope you don’t stop people from trying to enjoy a subway by supporting politicians that are anti-train. Same goes for HSR. You can drive or fly between cities if you want, just don’t try to stop HSR development please. Lots of people want it.
- danielrpa 3y agoI'd never do that, I'm not against subways and buses at all. Let's then ensure that the city pays for that through city taxes (sales, property) and bus/subway tickets, instead of the Federal or State governments.
- sundaeofshock 3y agoAnd let’s pay for all highways via tolls. No subsidies, right?
- 6510 3y agoI don't own a car but I use to think it is worth paying for roads since I benefit from postal services, busses and stuff being delivered to stores. But I have no idea how road consumption is distributed. (they don't last forever) I could in theory just as easily pay for that though the normal channels. It can just be included in the price of goods. Parking spaces consume a very expensive amount of space in cities. If someone hardly ever drives their car(s) sould they have to pay the same? I'm not a fan of capitalism but if you want such a system to work it should be allowed to scale prices with cost? It would have to be regulated to avoid driving up the prices to what people can afford. Bicycles and pedestrians use roads too. Billing everyone doesn't seem very challenging. Many highly used areas could really use maintenance and cleaning. I honestly have no idea which products and services would get more expensive but the benefits and cost are distributed weirdly.
- cookieperson 3y agoGen Z is in crippling debt and can't afford cars. Hmm how can we make this sound better...
- 0zemp2c 3y agoexactly! they're also leading the vanguard of elites pushing back against home ownership!
- rightbyte 3y agoThey don't want to work, too.
- majewsky 3y agoI can understand it. Where would a want for work come from? Either the prospect of increased prosperity (which is becoming ever more difficult to achieve unless you start out prosperous through inheritance, or are able to make it in one of the few high-paying industries), or the prospect of a job that is meaningful (which is becoming ever more difficult in a world of gigworking, AI starting to remove creative elements of labor, unchecked bureaucracy both in governments and just as much inside corporations, and so on and so forth). If I were to find themselves in a situation where the salary can just about make ends meet and there is no realistic prospect for them to move into a high-impact or high-paying line of work, then I would not be overly enthusiastic about doing anything above the necessary minimum at work, either.
- cookieperson 3y agoI see where you're going with this. Gen Z hates home ownership! You've done a great job making this world for your children and grand children!
- 0zemp2c 3y agopoor people have always been at the forefront of anti-consumerism!
- sys_64738 3y agoNope.
- not_the_fda 3y agoThey said the same thing about millennials. https://www.npr.org/2013/08/21/209579037/why-millennials-are-ditching-cars-and-redefining-ownership https://www.npr.org/2013/08/21/209579037/why-millennials-are... Only for them to be the biggest purchaser of pickup trucks. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/10/millennials-overtake-boomers-gen-x-as-biggest-buyers-of-pickup-trucks-in-us-for-first-time.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/10/millennials-overtake-boomers... Every generation says they are going to do it different. Then they get hit in the head with reality.
- ChatGTP 3y agoThe advertisement tech always improves :)
- Barrin92 3y agoAn observation like that needs to account for the fact that Millennials with over 70 million people in the US are now the largest American demographic, period. More interesting would be if there's an attitude shift compared to former generations at the same point in life, otherwise you're just noticing that Millennials are now the largest group of people with income
- paulgb 3y agoA cohort-based study found that we do drive (marginally) less: https://qz.com/2109753/us-millennials-drive-less-than-older-generations https://qz.com/2109753/us-millennials-drive-less-than-older-... I don’t remember anyone saying millenials would drive less, just that we wouldn’t be able to afford a car if we kept eating so much avocado toast. I was born in 89 and learning to drive was still a huge coming-of-age among my peers.
- SauciestGNU 3y agoWe're similar ages and I absolutely agree that the personal automobile played a huge role in my personal and social development. But then I discovered bicycles and something clicked in my brain with active transport and how fun it is and how healthy it makes me feel. Then I got hit by a drunk driver on my bike and since then I'm a subscriber of the "fuck cars" beliefs.
- CalRobert 3y agoAt least give us places to seek refuge from motordom! You shouldn't need to move to Utrecht or a tiny area near Phoenix to live in a place where you can let go of your child's hand without abject terror. (see www.culdesac.com, www.bloommerwede.nl)
- manuelabeledo 3y agoI wish this scenario wasn’t driven essentially by shrinking wages, though I agree with the general sentiment. Car culture in the US is hardly justifiable by means other than convenience. Riding a massive SUV to work, alone, sometimes for a couple hours every day, is a testament to how the concept of suburbs has thoroughly failed society as a whole. People compare the comfort of being alone and stuck in traffic, to the horrors of sharing a space with strangers, who are perhaps even homeless, while failing to recognize that any shortcomings in public transportation are derived from their very own strong desire of not using it. I had this colleague back in Spain, who would do what we all thought it was a crazy thing: she would commute almost three hours a day by train. Each leg was ~100Km, and in between her home and the city was a whole lot of nothing but very small towns and some disperse houses up in the mountains. She didn’t mind it - she would just take long naps or read or work on her laptop. And, apparently, she wasn’t the only one doing it, it was a popular service among people who would rather not live in the noisy city they work at. When I moved to the US, her way of life did not seem that crazy anymore, at least not compared to people driving for hours every day, on ~50mi commutes. There wasn’t really any reason why the US couldn’t have this, either, as an equivalent train service could easily connect relatively close metropolitan areas, and achieve the same results. Compared to these hours long traffic jams, with most cars carrying only one person, it didn’t seem crazy at all.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago>Car culture in the US is hardly justifiable by means other than convenience Ah yes. The “convenience” of driving 30 minutes to the nearest city, compared to walking for 8 hours.
- manuelabeledo 3y agoYou could also take the bus. Sad that public transportation in the US is the first victim of car culture.
- Ancapistani 3y agoMy home growing up was two miles from the nearest neighbor. There weren't - and aren't - a lot of buses.
- Simulacra 3y agoI don't think car free is practical, but I do believe that we can achieve master ploy, Ment of small, highly efficient, electric vehicles.