14 ms·

Visiting family in the UK for the first time in about five years. Costs here are _way_ higher than I remember. I bought three hamburgers, three drinks, and two

• hinkley 3y ago
  Pretty sure five guys here is about that expensive. Haven’t been in a while. Might remedy that
• zabzonk 3y ago
  > This was at Five Guys that's quite up-market - you would pay much less at macdonalds. > he mentioned he's getting taxed at 48-50% on top of this he must be earning a fair bit then 40 to 45 percent is the norm for good, middle-class salaries. but you are right, inflation here in the uk is getting quite frightening.
• EddieEngineers 3y ago
  Five Guys has always been that price, but I agree with your point. As a Brit, the US is pretty crazy too though. I just saw a single broccoli for $7 at a grocery store in Palo Alto. On my $172k salary I pay $59k in taxes which is roughly $1k more than I'd pay in the UK but in the UK that includes national insurance while in the US I pay health insurance on top. So while taxes sound crazy in the UK it's not actually different to the US - it's all marginal. VAT is only 7.25% in California but then you have to add 15-20% in tips when you're out.
  • CydeWeys 3y ago
    You wouldn't be making nearly that much in the UK though.
    • EddieEngineers 3y ago
      Two years ago I was making $160k in Oxford with 7 years work experience and no degree - contracting in London for > $500 per day or working remotely for startups in the Bay Area are both easily accessible if you have a couple years under your belt. I'm moving back to Europe this summer and talking to companies at 550+ a day.
      • CydeWeys 3y ago
        This sounds like an outlier though, no? The overall averages there are much lower. Also everyone I know in tech over here is making much more than that still.
        • xzel 3y ago
          That thats the case for the US as well. The average salary for US software dev, according to glassdoor, is 88,395/year, which iirc is about the same I've seen form other sources. Everyone working in FAAG is an outlier compared to the rest of the US. These conversations are usually pretty poor because context is very important and job + location + circumstance is seemingly pretty much impossible to compare to each other.
          • BadTakeAbove 3y ago
            Not really. You have to compare the equivalent rarity between the two countries. He's describing a 99th percentile income in the UK. The 99th percentile income in the US is $350K. It's not even close. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/charting-income-distributions-worldwide/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/charting-income-distribu...
            • 3y ago
• streptomycin 3y ago
  FWIW, in CA that order at Five Guys would be $55 (https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/five-guys-prices/ https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/five-guys-prices/ gives prices at (8.95*3+3.06*3+7.41*2)*1.0725), but I imagine people in CA are richer than people in the UK...
  • oliwarner 3y ago
    Median household incomes $84k Cali vs $42k UK. They're post-tax and don't factor major expenses like healthcare, household bills in general are almost double in California, but yeah, the average Californian is probably wealthier.
  • bombcar 3y ago
    People in CA would go to In-n-Out anyway. https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/in-n-out-prices/ https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/in-n-out-prices/ at (2.463+2.163+1.872)1.0725 = $18.88. Even if you double the fries because they're not "large" you're still under $25. Five Guys is batshit insane.
    • jjav 3y ago
      In-n-Out burgers are smaller though, so I usually get two whereas I'll only have one at Five Guys. Still, Five Guys is a bit over the top expensive so I rarely go there.
      • bombcar 3y ago
        True, and the "default" burger at In-n-Out is a double/double but even that's still less calories than Five Guys. But Five Guys is up at or above Smashburger pricing, so I'm not sure what they're doing.
    • OkayPhysicist 3y ago
      Five Guys and In N Out are competing in different market niches. In N Out is operating in the fast food bracket, competing with McDonalds and Jack In The Box (both of which it's cheaper than, remarkably). Five Guys is trying to be a more premium burger place, in the fast-casual market. In that niche, we can compare it to Panera or Blaze Pizza or the like, where a $15-20/person bill isn't unusual at all.
• Doctor_Fegg 3y ago
  Five Guys is absolutely atypical and has always been very expensive. A burger and a soft drink in a Wetherspoons (love them or loathe them) will be between £5 and £7 depending on the burger. > he mentioned he's getting taxed at 48-50% on top of this That's the higher rate for those who earn the most and, again, atypical. https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates
  • anoonmoose 3y ago
    Yup, using your link and this one [1] it would not be unreasonable to estimate that his friend is in the 98% or 99% percentile of earners in the UK. [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-f...
    • deleted 3y ago
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  • wskinner 3y ago
    The top marginal rate of 45% in the UK starts at £125,140. Compare that to the US, where the top marginal rate of 37% starts at $578,125. - Edited to correct incorrect US top rate.
    • Shaanie 3y ago
      Top marginal rate in Sweden, 50%~ starts at $59k and our VAT is 25%. So eh, UK doesn't seem so bad.
      • ilikerashers 3y ago
        Can we have your childcare, your healthcare and your housing market please in exchange? Childcare alone in Zone 4 London is £2000 per month.
        • 3y ago
• ahallock 3y ago
  It's gotten to the point that I cook at home because the quality does not match the price anymore. And I'm lazy and work a comfy tech job, so you know it's gotten bad. Paid over $8 today for a slice of cheese pizza (regular size, not jumbo) and a small drink--this is in Cleveland, OH It's ridiculous.
  • epiccoleman 3y ago
    I wonder how this kind of thing will affect low-mid tier sit down chain restaurants (think Red Robin, Chili's, BJ's, etc). Right now, to take my family to one of these restaurants for dinner would cost on the order of $100. At that price, I may as well just stomach the extra $30-50 and go get a nice meal at one of the local independent restaurants. The food and atmosphere will certainly be better. My in-laws took us out for dinner last weekend at Red Robin and the bill after tip was about $140. (4 adults, 2 kids). That's seriously obscene for the quality of food at Red Robin, which isn't terrible but certainly not worth spending $140 for.
    • OkayPhysicist 3y ago
      The family dining segment (cheap sitdown fair) is a shambling corpse. They weren't doing well pre-COVID, because each successive generation is proving less and less willing to sacrifice food quality for table service. At the price point restaurants like Chili's, Applebee's and their ilk operate at ($15-30/head), you can get substantially better food at a fast-casual (above fast food, but no table service) restaurant, and people are clearly choosing to do so. Nicer sit-down restaurants (in the ~$40+/head price range) are still doing alright. Then COVID hit, and "going out to eat" was pummeled: fast-casual restaurants weathered the storm alright-ish, because they likely already had a non-trivial takeout segment, and were attracting people based on their food. Family dining, who's main selling point is table service, were slaughtered. The outlook continues to be bleak for them, since they're being squeezed out of the market: cut costs by making worse food, and they cement their laughingstock status, cut costs by cutting back on staff and they jeopardize what little remains of their customer demand, or raise prices and further reduce their value proposition versus going to a nicer sit-down restaurant.
  • 3y ago
• skippyboxedhero 3y ago
  Can't believe prices are so high...goes to Five Guys which is at least 3x any other burger chain. I still can't believe how cheap the UK is. Big Mac meal near me is £6, cheeseburger is £1, 1kg of potatoes was 20p the other week, two-portion microwavable rice 20p, even a nice matured ribeye steak is only £5, it is genuinely incredible. In particular, the price of stuff that comes from farmers is really too low in the UK (there has been massive competition in food retail, great...prices are extremely low but cost isn't an issue for 99% of the population...if you go into Tesco, it is staggering how limited their range of products is, the reason why is that they have driven prices so low that food production is often quite unprofitable...the recent trade deal with Morocco was also a real game-changer for food prices, UK farmers can't compete). And the top rate of tax in the UK is 45%. When people say they pay more it is because they are paying for student loans (which aren't really on economic terms, are often forgiven totally, etc...the reason why we have this system is because wealthy students were getting heavy subsidies from free university education). But what people ignore is that you get substantial amounts of welfare and benefits. For example, the govt recently introduced free childcare for a certain number of hours. Where do you think the taper would be? Probably median income? £28k? Maybe where child benefits stop £50k? Nope, £100k. You can earn £99k/year in the UK, and still receive benefits from the state. That is why taxes are "so high" (they aren't, taxes in the UK are amazingly low given the size of the state...we have wage subsidy programs worth tens of billions every year, housing subsidie worth tens of billions, on and on it goes, everyone on welfare).
  • koolba 3y ago
    With a 45% tax rate and a 20% VAT, something that costs $1 would require an income of $2.18.
    • skippyboxedhero 3y ago
      No, it wouldn't because when you pay tax your money isn't being flushed down the toilet. You don't understand at a fundamental level how the govt works in the UK.
      • 3y ago
• gavin_gee 3y ago
  My unscientific burger comparison I think calls BS on the UK prices. Everywhere is expensive now. The problem with the UK is Brexit and a country that went from being very supportive to small business and entrepreneurs to a high tax wasteland of averageness. The UK is the deepest into its decline of any western empire. They are shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. the coronation was the canary for living in the past. some data: I looked at two restaurants in central London. Gordan Ramsey (expensive) and honest burgers. Their prices were 13 and 17 GBP for the regular burger. (16 and 21 USD respectively. Compared to seattle. If I pick Victory Tavern (which is ethan Stowall somewhat equiv to Gordan) thats a $21USD burger. Little woody's is a $7.50 burger but has no sides. add fries for 3.5 and you are at $11. Seattle is no London. Yet these prices arent miles apart and I would put little woodys as a cheap burger and America is the King of burgers and Beef production so would expect to see cheaper options.
  • gavin_gee 3y ago
    what I dont think brits really understand about US food prices in restaurants though in recent years in places like seattle is there is a 40% tax on the prices on the menu. sales tax 10% Living wage tax 10% 20%+ tip expectation Everyone I talk to from earning $80K a year to $1M a year are not eating out as much as its absurdly expensive. Just this week. 2 people. dinner at a reasonable seattle restuarant on a tuesday - not high end. 2 mains, shared appetizer and bread and 4 glasses of wine. $300.
    • elijaht 3y ago
      Hmm, even if the restaurant is not high end, those are quite high prices. Just went out to a restaurant I would describe similarly (https://www.thebutchersdaughter.com/west-village/ https://www.thebutchersdaughter.com/west-village/). Mains are ~$20, appetizers are ~$15, wine is ~$15. Two mains, two apps, four glasses of wine would be $130, with tax and tip is $180. That is still high for me, but that does include four drinks.
    • jandrewrogers 3y ago
      That is anomalously expensive for Seattle. I eat out several times a week at nice restaurants and the bill for two virtually never exceeds $200.
• JimDabell 3y ago
  > he mentioned he's getting taxed at 48-50% on top of this. The highest income tax bracket is 45%, and you only pay that rate of tax on the money you earn past £125k – you don’t pay that rate on your entire income.
  • c7THEC2DDFVV2V 3y ago
    thats incorrect. you lose your tax free allowance, which is a furtger 12,500 tax paid. Plus you need to consider graduate tax and the interest on those 'loans' which currently sits at 4.5%
    • dukeyukey 3y ago
      But you're still only paying the lower rates on income until you hit £125000, and at that income those student loans aren't gonna exist for long.
      • c7THEC2DDFVV2V 3y ago
        they will exist for a while because you need to get to that level in your career. People rarely leave uni and get 100k+ jobs. If you leave uni and find a job paying at 50k and you get increases of 2.5% each year, it will take over 20 years to repay.
    • blitzar 3y ago
      Its an even higher tax rate if you buy 50,000 of drugs with your money and call it a heroin tax.
      • c7THEC2DDFVV2V 3y ago
        what on earth?
• deleted 3y ago
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• nazgulnarsil 3y ago
  The UK seems to be at the fore front of deindustrializaton
  • dukeyukey 3y ago
    I don't know why you'd think that, UK manufacturing is about the same as France, and quite a bit more than say Norway or Australia. Definitely not an outlier in any case.
  • throwawayazz 3y ago
    [flagged]
• ghaff 3y ago
  I'm not sure you'd be much different in the US. I find, among "fast casual" (i.e. step up from real fast food chains) burger chains, Five Guys is one of the more expensive.
• penguin_booze 3y ago
  Try commuting by train. You'll cry twice: once when you hear the fare (the lolz), then again when you've to pay that fare (the real).
  • adamckay 3y ago
    Thrice. You're forgetting about when it's inevitably delayed or cancelled and you're stuck.
  • zimpenfish 3y ago
    Only twice? Surely again when the train is delayed, again when it's cancelled, again when the next is consequently double-stuffed, etc.
• deleted 3y ago
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• idontpost 3y ago
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• 0xbadcafebee 3y ago
  > they had to cut back on turning on their heating at night during the winter There is this little inconvenient thing called the Russian Invasion of Ukraine that is still ongoing since 1 year, 2 months, 3 weeks and 4 days. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/mar/06/soaring-gas-prices-are-a-cost-of-this-war-and-britain-cant-avoid-them https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/mar/06/soaring-gas-pr...
• mhb 3y ago
  What's the definition over there of a "drink" and a "pop"?
• traceroute66 3y ago
  To be perfectly frank, most people in the UK (and elsewhere really) just need to learn how to cook ! From a UK perspective, being able to cook achieves: a) The ability to buy raw ingredients in bulk b) You can cook dishes that last you multiple meals (and NO, this does not mean eating the same thing) c) You can make soups and stocks from bones (all you need is bones, cheap vegetables, cheap spicing, and water) d) VAT on raw ingredients is either 0% or 5% e) Raw ingredients are cheaper than processed food f) Raw ingredients are A MILLION times cheaper than restaurant prices (depending where you eat, you're typically paying up to 300% mark-up on ingredients because the restaurant needs to cover its costs) And no it is not time consuming, the more practice you get, the quicker it becomes. And things like soups and stocks you don't even have to watch the pot, you just put it on and forget about it for a few hours.
  • 76SlashDolphin 3y ago
    The issue is that cooking becomes more enjoyable and fast if you have a well-stocked large kitchen which not many can have due to size constraints or budget constraints. Then there's also cleaning which is never enjoyable and takes a big chunk of time. Cooking is definitely efficient at 3 or more people, can have tradeoffs with 2 people and makes little sense if you live alone or with non-cooperating flatmates.
    • traceroute66 3y ago
      > if you have a well-stocked large kitchen which not many can have due to size constraints or budget constraints. I'm sorry but that is oft-repeated nonsense that you have to have a well-stocked large kitchen to be able to cook at home. You can cook as well in a small "galley" style kitchen as you can in a large one. Other than herbs, spices and maybe a few bottles/cans of this and that, you don't need to keep vast stocks of anything. All you need to do is engage the brain and do a little bit of forward-planning for the week ahead. How do you think people who grew up in, for example, communist-era Eastern Europe survived ? They all cooked at home. They certainly didn't have access to a supermarket so they could have a "well-stocked large kitchen". And their kitchens were certainly not large. Yet they ate well, they ate healthily. > Cooking is definitely efficient at 3 or more people, can have tradeoffs with 2 people and makes little sense if you live alone This is also utter tripe, again oft-repeated. In 2023 we are blessed with this thing called refrigeration. Again, engage brain and plan ahead. You can make a variety of dishes for the immediate days ahead and put them in the refrigerator. As long as you stick to basic sensible food hygiene, food will be perfectly safe after a few days to a week in the fridge. Leftovers can go in the freezer. You can equally (and should !) for example put a supply of stocks and soups in the freezer (soups for when you need a quick meal, stocks to add flavour and depth to other dishes). It's not rocket science. It is simply, regrettably, a skill that has been lost in today's culture of immediate gratification and laziness.
• dmje 3y ago
  Tax blaming is b/s. The problem in the UK is that not enough rich people are being taxed. Meanwhile, shareholders are crapping all over normals (see story today about the water companies dumping waste and then passing on £10bn bill to their customers). The Tory gov insists that privatisation is the key - meanwhile the NHS falls on its ass, schools are crumbling, trains are late and expensive and shit. Don't get me started on Brexit. There is literally NO redeeming feature to this shit show - again caused by rabid right wing Tory assholes - and once again in the news is the UK car industry saying we're going to lose 800,000 jobs due to Brexit unless the gov pulls its finger out. So - sorry - but don't bang on about high taxes OR your obviously minted higher rate tax paying mate. It's 12 years of Tory austerity that is REALLY hurting people over here. More taxes on the rich would help mightily. Oh, and a £162m public bill to bury someone who owned more diamond hats that she knew what to do with. Don't get me started on the royal shitshow either. Sorry to rant but I'm bloody horrified at the state of our country and it ain't taxes that are the problem.
  • ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > Meanwhile, shareholders are crapping all over normals (see story today about the water companies dumping waste and then passing on £10bn bill to their customers This has been so egrigeous, water companies are literal monopolies that have been braking the law and there are no consequences.
• noneeeed 3y ago
  Is your brother in Scotland? If not he should get his tax code checked. Combining income tax and national insurance contributions, the highest marginal tax rate on your salary is 47%, and that is only on everything over £125k (about $150k). The vast majority of people are in the standard rate band where you pay 20% IT and 12% NI contributions, a total of 32% on what you earn over the tax free allowance £12,500 and under the £50k higher rate threshold, at which point it switches to 40% IT and just 2% NI. If you earn £50k you will pay 23% total tax on your salary. If you earn £125k you pay about 38% total tax on your salary. The very highest marginal rate he should pay is 47%, if he is paying more then someone screwed up. In Scotland they have slightly higher rates.
  • gpderetta 3y ago
    Between 100k and 125k the tax free allowance tapers away, for an effective marginal tax rate of 60%.
    • noneeeed 3y ago
      Good point, I’d forgotten about that weird bit of the band. I wish we would simplify the tax and NI system into one set of bands, but that’ll never happen.
• odiroot 3y ago
  > This was at Five Guys Five Guys is probably the most expensive fast food around here. It's not a surprise.
• abecode 3y ago
  Visiting the UK from the US in January and I was impressed by how far the dollars went. There was a burger and beer special at Wetherspoon for something like 6-7 pounds and a beer was under around 1-2 pounds. So my experience was different than the parent. Those prices are reasonable in the US under the old exchange rates but cheap now. That being said, everyone was complaining about the costs so I agree that for people living there, the costs have gone up. My auntie kept her house very cold and taxi drivers complained a lot too about prices and the insurance system.
• alex_lav 3y ago
  I went to a local chain in my area and wanted to purchase a single cheeseburger, similar to the McDonald’s McDouble. McDonald’s dollar menu items are now up to 3 dollars, and this local chain’s cheapest option was 5.50. I just left the drive through without buying anything. Even the cheapest fast food isn’t cheaper than cooking at home anymore, which is very new.
• retube 3y ago
  Five Guys lol. Well known for being outrageously expensive, despite looking like a cheap dive.
• agumonkey 3y ago
  Allow me to side step: in these high prices times, people should investigate one-meal-a-day or caloric restriction. Save money and restore your health at the same time. Spend the free time doing family hike, singing in a choir, playing chess or crafting.
• geodel 3y ago
  A quick search tells 5 guys burger prices are about same in US dollar vs UK pound ..e.g $9 here 9 GBP there. So yes, high price, but if anyone last few years still thinks that fast food is cheap and kind of daily thing is a victim of marketing myth. It doesn't help that how its sneakily promoted by TV shows where beat cops, blue collar workers eating burgers and shake all the time where IT engineer like me would balk at such high prices
• m463 3y ago
  Five Guys is really expensive in the US too. Really makes in-n-out look like a bargain.
• ricardobayes 3y ago
  To add to that, prices in countries which were famous for being cheap tourist destinations, like Budapest/Hungary are out of control. Expect to pay 10-14 euros for a pizza, which is very much in line with western europe almost down to the cent. I'd wager earnings-averaged cost of living apart from HCOL areas are actually lower in the US right now, than Europe.