20 ms·

Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

465 points by cstuder 15y ago

zrgiu_ 15y ago
is there a specific reason they needed to update the entire OS for this ? Most of the new features are actually apps, and the rest wouldn't really justify a major version change.
- Argorak 15y ago
  Well, Ubuntu does this every 6 months. They also pick another silly name every 12. Maybe Ubuntu is becoming the role model here?
  - graywh 15y ago
    Every 6-month Ubuntu release has a silly name.
    - Argorak 15y ago
      Actually, yes. Comes from using LTS-releases only :).
      - mortil 15y ago
        LTS releases are every 24 months.
  - Tichy 15y ago
    Ubuntu updates are free, though.
  - bergie 15y ago
    The major difference is that with Ubuntu, apps and the OS/desktop share the same release cycle. I hope that could be decoupled, making life easier for application authors: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/application_quality_assurance_in_linux_distributions/ http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/application_quality_assurance_in_l...
- ddagradi 15y ago
  Don't forget all the API changes that present themselves with each new major version. For example, Notifications, GameCenter and Twitter are all new core libraries on the Mac that are accessible to developers.
- idspispopd 15y ago
  In these events they talk about the new features as they're the most recognisable for press, often examples of what some of the new APIs are capable. (Features, which could of course have been programmed to run atop 10.7 Lion.) E.g. growl does system wide notifications, but it's not built-in, and Apple like to control these things so they may more easily interface them with other Apple devices. (E.g. Apple could very easily make their Apple TV notify the user's iPhone when a new TV episode has been downloaded, or even schedule it onto their Mac.) With that in mind Apple have a history of meshing the experiences across their devices, the messages app is a recent example.
- pwthornton 15y ago
  This is an early preview. We don't know about all the new APIs and changes under the hood. Presumably there is a lot going on with the additional iCloud support. One of these years Apple is going to discontinue carbon API support and go 64-bit only. I doubt this release is it, but those kinds of under-the-hood features are not the kinds of things that you would talk about at this point. We'll learn more at WWDC.
- jonhendry 15y ago
  What they cover for the general public is usually only the most visible features. There's additional new stuff under the hood, which will be available for 3rd party developers to use in their apps. The benefits might not be apparent immediately, but they'll start showing up in apps written to take advantage of 10.8's features. Some improvements in the frameworks will effect existing apps that use those frameworks.
colonel_panic 15y ago
No mention of an OpenGL update. Still waiting out this stone age here...
- wmf 15y ago
  They didn't mention any low-level API changes, which could either mean there are none or they just didn't mention them.
Craiggybear 15y ago
Already?
- latch 15y ago
  they are adopting a 1-year release cycle.
  - bdunbar 15y ago
    Fascinating. I'm still on 10.6: no compelling reason to upgrade. By the time I _do_ upgrade I'm in for some future shock: like dropping a Victorian gentleman into Haight-Ashbury in 1968.
    - vidarh 15y ago
      My work laptop is on 10.5.8...
      - cake 15y ago
        I'm still on 10.5.8 too, I want to upgrade but I really don't see any reason why I should.
      - bdunbar 15y ago
        I would probably still be on 10.5, but the new laptop came with 10.6.
oomkiller 15y ago
Is the messages beta download broken for anyone else? I would really like to send iMessages from my Mac.
- dutchbrit 15y ago
  Here you go... http://appldnld.apple.com/MessagesBeta/041-4274.20120216.z5km/MessagesBeta.dmg http://appldnld.apple.com/MessagesBeta/041-4274.20120216.z5k...
CJefferson 15y ago
Wow, that snuck out without much advanced fanfare (or I missed it). I first glance, the main (in fact only) feature seems to be porting several iOS apps and features (notes, reminders, game center, etc.) to Mac OS X, and syncing everything together with iCloud. There is also a Growl clone. Surprised this took so long. Then again, I personally don't like Growl, so I hope nothing depends on it being turned on. I notice that, so far, there doesn't seem to be any new 'technologies', just (mainly) ports of iOS apps. Looks very ho hum to me, but then again I have an android phone, so iOS syncing doesn't really interest me.
- Hemospectrum 15y ago
  Growl gets a lot of things wrong and stagnated for years with (until recently) no sign of improvement. It was ripe for disruption. Maybe Apple's implementation will be less depressing.
- Timothee 15y ago
  There is also a Growl clone. Surprised this took so long. Then again, I personally don't like Growl, so I hope nothing depends on it being turned on. It seems that Apple adopted a similar model as Notifications Center on iOS in that you can decide on a per-app basis what they can do: banner, badge, sound… See this MacWorld's screenshot: http://images.macworld.com/images/article/2012/02/notifications-cp-272379.jpg http://images.macworld.com/images/article/2012/02/notificati...
zdw 15y ago
Feature rundown: http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/features.html http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/features.html One of the more interesting bits is at the - they're supporting a bunch of China specific services.
- 127001brewer 15y ago
  Very interesting. From the features list at the bottom: *It’s a new Mac experience in China. OS X Mountain Lion brings all-new support for many popular Chinese services. And they’re easy to set up. Mail, Contacts, and Calendar work with QQ, 163, and 126. Baidu, the leading Chinese search provider, is a built-in option in Safari. The video-sharing websites Youku and Tudou are included in the new Share Sheets, so users in China can easily post videos to the web. They can also blog with Sina weibo, the popular microblogging service. And with improved text input, typing in Chinese is easier, faster, and more accurate."
  - smackfu 15y ago
    I'm surprised there wasn't a China Twitter equivalent baked in. Or do they just use Twitter?
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - philwelch 15y ago
      "Sina weibo, the popular microblogging service."? "Microblogging" is the generic term for Twitter clones, is it not?
      - smackfu 15y ago
        Good point, and the wording is a bit unclear over whether that goes on the "Sharing Sheets" or is more like the Twitter integration.
___Calv_Dee___ 15y ago
Apple, as usual, really seems to be getting it right. The feature list looks super promising as a nextstep (sorry, had to) in unifying mobile with desktop. It's nice to see that the desktop OS is not being abandoned but instead updated to better reflect a consumers preference for mobile (with good reason). Microsoft has also got it right by tying their Metro interface in Windows 8 to the Windows Phone OS. The attempt, however, falls short in that it is not really unifying the two platforms but instead providing a common interface and feel. In order to truly unite desktop with mobile, I believe you need to go beyond providing a common interface and really integrate the components so they exist to the user simultaneously instead of in parellel. This is just another verification (and in my opinion, a big one) that mobile is taking the reigns and is the future.
poodougnut 15y ago
Right, so they've completely trashed the interface.
va_coder 15y ago
It looks like an enormous distraction box. They should top it off with a widget for HN ;)
pilif 15y ago
It seems like the OS is either defaulting to allowing only only App Store applications or at least only (Apple-)signed applications: http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html It's still possible to turn this off, but I have a feeling that we should enjoy our freedom to run GNU grep instead of BSD grep for as long as it lasts.
- oomkiller 15y ago
  For some reason I doubt that this runs all the way down to the UNIX level of things. It's probably just the restriction to only run signed .app bundles, and maybe signed installer packages. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
- gue5t 15y ago
  I wonder how long it'll take crackers to get their hands on a master signing key.
  - sjwright 15y ago
    About as long as it took them to get their hands on the iPhone master signing key, I'd wager.
- st3fan 15y ago
  Read what Gruber writes about that Gatekeep feature: My favorite Mountain Lion feature, though, is one that hardly even has a visible interface. Apple is calling it “Gatekeeper”. It’s a system whereby developers can sign up for free-of-charge Apple developer IDs which they can then use to cryptographically sign their applications. If an app is found to be malware, Apple can revoke that developer’s certificate, rendering the app (along with any others from the same developer) inert on any Mac where it’s been installed. In effect, it offers all the security benefits of the App Store, except for the process of approving apps by Apple. Users have three choices which type of apps can run on Mountain Lion: * Only those from the App Store * Only those from the App Store or which are signed by a developer ID * Any app, whether signed or unsigned The default for this setting is, I say, exactly right: the one in the middle, disallowing only unsigned apps. This default setting benefits users by increasing practical security, and also benefits developers, preserving the freedom to ship whatever software they want for the Mac, with no approval process.
ksajadi 15y ago
I wish anything that uses Growl can use notifications out of the box. it's just not going to happen is it?
edu 15y ago
I hope it'll be a free update.
- sjwright 15y ago
  I hope it'll be $29, because that's near enough to free, and I like the idea that Apple has a financial incentive to continue supporting their existing customers.
  - edu 15y ago
    Then I will keep using Lion in hope they release a real OS X update sometime in the future for which I would pay play gladly as I've been doing with all the previous updated, because right now Mountain Lion is just a bunch of iOS Apps ported to OS X. I'm sorry, but IMO the value of this update is $0.
    - ceejayoz 15y ago
      "Real" updates used to cost $130. Now we get a couple updates for $30. In the long run, you're likely paying less for new features than you used to.
- RKearney 15y ago
  You mean like how every other update was free? It will cost $29
  - edu 15y ago
    Yes, with the difference that the other OS X updates were not just a bunch of iOS Apps ported to the Mac, that why I paid for them and that's why if Mountain Lion is release with a price tag over $0 I'll keep using Lion (and hopefully this will incentivize Apple to make a real OS X update somewhere in 2013-2014).
  - thomasjoulin 15y ago
    He meant like every iOS updates were free. It will be free
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- gkefalas 15y ago
  You're misunderstanding. An app can be freely available outside of the App Store but still be signed: http://www.macworld.com/article/165408/2012/02/mountain_lion_hands_on_with_gatekeeper.html http://www.macworld.com/article/165408/2012/02/mountain_lion...
- yusefnapora 15y ago
  The default is the middle one - no unsigned apps, but they don't have to come from the App Store. Apple is going to start offering "Gatekeeper" certificates for non-App Store developers. The idea being that they can revoke a certificate if an app turns out to be malicious.
zephyrfalcon 15y ago
I'm not sure if this matters or not, but the submitted title calls it "Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion", and 10.8 is indeed the version number I would expect; yet this number is nowhere to be found, neither on Apple's page nor in Gruber's announcement. Instead, it's just called "OS X Mountain Lion" everywhere. I wonder if they dropped the version number, or are downplaying it? But for what reason?
- cmelbye 15y ago
  I saw a screenshot of the "About This Mac" screen that displayed 10.8 as the version number. I believe it was on the TechCrunch article.
  - macuenca 15y ago
    This is the article your talking about: http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/16/os-x-mountain-lion/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/16/os-x-mountain-lion/
graywh 15y ago
But they've already had a "Puma" release. Will "Cougar" be next? Side note: panthers are technically black leopards or jaguars.
mikerg87 15y ago
But where is the Mac Touch hardware ? you could see for a while where touch was it and we have these nice laptops and big iMac displays but we will use a mouse ?! I really want my next imac to be a docking station with a tear away tablet Windows 8 is definately banking having this sort of hardware in laptops and displays being available. You dont do Metro on the desktop unless you think that kind of hardware will be available in some form at launch. Metro with a mouse is hideous, even for Microsoft...
- wtallis 15y ago
  I don't think the technology exists to make large tablets ergonomically feasible. In order for the tablet portion to be light enough to casually pick up and carry around, it would have to be not much larger than an iPad, which is to say, less than half the smallest reasonable screen size for a desktop.
- rsynnott 15y ago
  You'd have to either make your operating system work very well with both touch and mouse/trackpad/keyboard (very difficult), treat touch as a gimmick (as with those Windows 7 HP iMac-like things with touch screens), or make touch (which is ergonomically highly problematic on anything but a smallish tablet) the first-class citizen.
saturdaysaint 15y ago
-I'd probably pay $30 for the Airplay feature alone. -I don't know how Apple thinks they can push these web-enabled apps that only work on their platforms. A chat app that basically only lets you interact with Apple customers is kind of comical. -Gatekeeper won't win over any Apple critics, but it's actually more flexible/open than what a lot of people feared was coming (ie "App Store apps only"). -Notifications and system-wide share buttons are nice touches. I wonder if the share button will be limited to a few Apple-approved services.
- davidcollantes 15y ago
  Related to this, all my friends and family are already using an Apple product (referring to either iPhone, iPad or a Mac, or all inclusive). Really, everyone I know is. A chat app (and any other) that let me interact with them is perfect.
- jws 15y ago
  A chat app that basically only lets you interact with Apple customers is kind of comical. – would be. Thankfully you probably know people with AIM, XMPP, or SMS chat identities. And iChat works with those too. From the official Apple pages: Messages supports iMessage and instant messaging services such as AIM, Jabber, Google Talk, and Yahoo! Messenger.
  - bergie 15y ago
    It would be great if they brought those other protocols to the iOS Messages app as well
  - phamilton 15y ago
    What I would really like is if Google Voice could integrate with Messages so all my SMS needs could be taken care of.
- gearoidoc 15y ago
  "A chat app that basically only lets you interact with Apple customers is kind of comical" Ehm, it's iChat linked to iMessage. It still supports chatting over gmail, yahoo etc.
furyg3 15y ago
You can get the Messages application in beta form here: http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/messages-beta/ http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/messages-beta/
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - stephenson 15y ago
    Works fine from denmark...
  - Luc 15y ago
    For me too (Belgium), but... ctrl-u, ctrl-f '.dmg'. Easy peasy.
  - dan1234 15y ago
    Working fine in the UK
  - dutchbrit 15y ago
    Anyone having issues... Because I got that message too - that an error occurred, http://appldnld.apple.com/MessagesBeta/041-4274.20120216.z5km/MessagesBeta.dmg http://appldnld.apple.com/MessagesBeta/041-4274.20120216.z5k... Direct link =)
  - kellysutton 15y ago
    Fine from Germany.
- brown9-2 15y ago
  Expectedly, but somewhat of a bummer, it requires Lion :(
dfc 15y ago
How is the iCloud focus going to effect corporate adoption? If you are a large company can you host your own iCloud service on company resources? Does/will apple provide a sas70 for big corporate users?
ori_b 15y ago
"OS X Mountain Lion arrives this summer. With all-new features inspired by iPad, the Mac just keeps getting better and better." Am I the only person that doesn't want an ipad on the desktop?
- antidaily 15y ago
  No, no one wants that (I hope). Read the Gruber preview and you'll feel more at ease. OS X and iOS are not merging. He describes Mountain Lion as "a series of steps toward defining a set of shared concepts, styles, and principles between two fundamentally distinct OSes." http://daringfireball.net/2012/02/mountain_lion http://daringfireball.net/2012/02/mountain_lion
  - hahainternet 15y ago
    I asked a few friends and couldn't get an answer. What features have been taken from OSX and put into iOS? It seems to me that contrary to Gruber's claim, OSX is moving towards iOS and iOS is moving towards its competition.
    - philwelch 15y ago
      What features have been taken from OSX and put into iOS? Oh, not much--just the whole kernel, userland, graphics layer, and half of the Cocoa API. EDIT: Also, Spotlight.
      - CrazedGeek 15y ago
        Features, not specs.
        ntkachov 15y ago
        Whats the difference?
        ceejayoz 15y ago
        Mail, Safari, iCal, accessibility, the Stocks / Weather dashboard widgets, Photo Booth, iWork, GarageBand, Airport Utility... Hell, iCloud had its roots in Mac.com.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- Karunamon 15y ago
  Don't choose to be offended, then.
- jonhendry 15y ago
  It's not really considered offensive in the US. Here it doesn't have the connotations it has in the UK. It's like "Fanny". In the US, it's an inoffensive synonym for your buttocks. In the UK, it's a woman's vulva, so a bit more risqué.
AznHisoka 15y ago
Am I the only one afraid of upgrading my Mac in fear of breaking my Ruby gems, MySQL drivers, C libraries, ImageMagick, environment variables, iOS libraries, provisioning certificates, etc?
mbesto 15y ago
The walls are slowly going up around the garden...
- jpravetz 15y ago
  I'm most alarmed with this restriction: iCloud document storage and Notification Center. Both of these are slated only for third-party apps from the Mac App Store. Many developers, though, have been maintaining non-Mac App Store versions of their apps. If this continues, such apps are going to lose feature parity between the App Store and non-App Store versions. This will affect software from companies such as Adobe where custom installers are necessary and/or the economics of taking a 30% App Store hit is not necessary when they can already reach their customer base. The move strikes me as anti competitive.
Gring 15y ago
According to the screenshots, the spotlight icon is no longer on the top right, getting shuffled over to the left by presumably a new icon to invoke notification center. That's a really bad choice. The corners are the click targets fastest to reach (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fittss_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fittss_law ), and demoting searching in favor of 'reading messages that have popped up before' doesn't strike me as quite well-balanced.
- ConstantineXVI 15y ago
  It gets worse; can also call it up with a two-finger swipe to the left. Not sure why they're so intent on overloading that gesture. Two fingers in SL: * Scroll. Two fingers in ML: * Scroll * or back/forward * or Notification Center
  - cpr 15y ago
    It looks like the two fingers have to come in from the right side of the scroll area (like pulling down on the top of the screen--the right side in this case), so it's distinct from the other meanings.
- jedberg 15y ago
  Command-Space opens spotlight, and if you're gonna search, you might as well already have your hand on they keyboard. I actually like it better -- I'm much more likely to activate notifications with a mouse, so I'd much rather have that be the "bigger" target.
mmuro 15y ago
I'm looking forward to the day when I don't have to worry about my file system and apps just know what files it needs or can view. iCloud seems to be moving things in that direction.
pwthornton 15y ago
The thing I'm by far the most excited about is AirPlay Mirroring. If I'm reading this correctly, I'll be able to mirror anything from my Mac to my TV using an Apple TV. This will be great for watching Internet videos, going through my iPhoto library with my wife, looking at home videos, etc. All without needing a stupid cable from my couch to my TV. The deeper iCloud integration is also intriguing. I assume this means proper syncing between documents on a Mac, iPad and iPhone. This will be a huge feature, and is currently a major stumbling block with iCloud. I want my documents to sync to my mobile devices. Those two features alone are pretty big. Beyond that, I'm interested to here about the new APIs and anything else that has been changed under the hood. OS X Lion has always been a little bit buggy (the latest release is pretty solid, however). I wonder if Mountain Lion will be like Snow Leopard where it tightens up a lot of things under the hood and gives us a better realization of the OS. I'm excited for Gatekeeper for my parents and other people I know that aren't that tech savvy. This could save me a lot of headaches.
- orionlogic 15y ago
  I am excited as well in AirPlay Mirroring so i watched several times in the demo. It seems video plays with Quicktime. So lot's of video formats are not compatible like mkv's, iso's etc... If somehow i am able to mirror VLC i will run and buy Apple TV at once.
  - janus 15y ago
    If you install Perian, Quicktime supports expands to include many more formats http://perian.org/ http://perian.org/ But I agree and would welcome the support for VLC too!
    - orionlogic 15y ago
      I already have Perian. It's not supported well imho. Just try to open a 8gb mkv and it broke QT.
      - calloc 15y ago
josteink 15y ago
Accidentally bans ultrabooks in the process. http://mashable.com/2012/02/15/apple-patents-macbook-air/ http://mashable.com/2012/02/15/apple-patents-macbook-air/
- jws 15y ago
  Just a design patent [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent], nothing to see here. Don't make your ultra book look like an air and you are fine. (Hint: pay attention to materials, radiuses, colors, and angles.) How close you can get involves how much tolerance you have for litigation and risking a loss.
- wmf 15y ago
  That's no accident. And why should somebody be allowed to make a laptop that looks exactly like an Air?
lean 15y ago
"Notes" still uses Marker Felt as the font, and faux yellow legal pad background?! Sigh. I thought Macs were for designers?
feralchimp 15y ago
I for one welcome our new OS-level code signature verification overlords. May they smite evil and incompetence swiftly and brutally...except when 'evil' is defined by foreign governments, domestic law enforcement, or fair competition with built-in features. With great power comes great "you guys better not fuck this up."
- yequalsx 15y ago
  "If an app is found to be malware, Apple can revoke that developer’s certificate, rendering the app (along with any others from the same developer) inert on any Mac where it’s been installed. " Yeah, it's not a great reach to think that in five years there will be no Option 3 and malware will include any program that the government of the nation that your computer is in deems undesirable. Apple and Microsoft will likely be forced to have such capabilities by various national governments.
  - maercsrats 15y ago
    If you think it's that possible then why not contact your congress person/senator and have them look into this? In fact, talk to them about drafting a law against not being able to install software of your choosing on a machine you buy. Or, at the very least, a law for being able to take your data with you when you decide to leave a platform. This wouldn't help China, Iran, Syria, etc. but it would at least give US citizens some protections. Personally, I'm not very afraid of option 3 ever going away but I also am ready with a FreeBSD VM instance.
rbanffy 15y ago
"Log out, stage left!" Sorry folks, Couldn't resist.
dedene 15y ago
Is it just me or is the iMessage Beta icon very very similar to the HipChat icon? :) http://cl.ly/3m060G3x1o2X3I1u3I1D http://cl.ly/3m060G3x1o2X3I1u3I1D
- ceejayoz 15y ago
  Messages (iChat) has been around far longer than HipChat.
antirez 15y ago
Messages is great, but is there a way to get every iMessage duplicated across iPhone / Mac? Otherwise you send an iMessage, close the mac, grap the iPhone and go away, but never get the reply back. And so forth.
- yankcrime 15y ago
  It's duplicated for me. A conversation I had with a friend via iMessage and his iPhone sync'd up on my phone a few minutes later.
  - antirez 15y ago
    Ok so I guess it's just the "beta" part of the issue ;) Thank you.
- a2tech 15y ago
  Thats the way it works. My iPad, iPhone and now Messages Beta display every message
  - Arelius 15y ago
    At least 2 weeks ago I also was not seeing that behaivor. I had to unpaid my iPad because I was missing vital messages on my iPhone. Its possible that my iPhone was out of service at the time. But that shouldnt matternn
ashleyw 15y ago
The worrying thing about Apple's Gatekeeper feature isn't that they may impose their moral opinions on apps, but that governments and corporate entities will have the ability to pressure Apple into disabling apps which aren't actually malicious, i.e. Tor & BitCoin. Whether or not it can be disabled is irrelevant. I don't want to have to instruct my customers about how to essentially jailbreak their Mac just to use my app. And will it just be .app applications which need to be signed, or will it be all binaries, e.g. Vim and Apache? Worrying times indeed. I don't particularly want to use Linux, cause I really love OS X's elegance, but I can see switching being a real possibility over the next few years if Apple continues the trend of forcing iOS's walled-garden on OS X.
xster 15y ago
notes and reminders are features?? sigh... I miss steve...
j45 15y ago
I hope it doesn't turn out to be Mountain Goat. Lion broke my external displays working properly while in clamshell (closed laptop) mode. Conveniently, if I connect it to an Apple display, it's magic, but somehow not.
jakemcgraw 15y ago
Wow. It's the reverse digital hub strategy. The peripheral devices (iPod, iPhone, iPad) are now more popular than the Mac. So, rather than sunset the Mac, Apple makes it so that if you own own of these devices, a Mac will be the default choice.
xster 15y ago
how much you think you should pay? 1000$????? 500$????? nooooooo!! only 99$, you get a clock, paint and even reversi! for only 99$!!
2mur 15y ago
The only thing that I really dislike about iCloud is sharing a computer (with your wife/family). Our family room computer is a mac mini that is logged into one user account all of the time. It is shared by myself, my wife and my kids. The iPhoto on that account is set up to use my iCloud account. If my wife wants to get her photos (iPhone) downloaded from iCloud she has to log over to an account that only exists for this purpose. So I'm sure the whole documents, todos, calendar and everything else on 10.8 is going to be a similar pain in the ass for people sharing one computer. We have to manage three AppleIDs. My iCloud account, her iCloud account and we share an AppleID for purchases from the App Store. They need to fix this for multi-Apple families.
- Aloisius 15y ago
  Why don't you use multiple user accounts on your Mac Mini? That's pretty much what it is designed for.
  - pwelch 15y ago
    I agree. For those who want one account for everyone then just register all your devices. If you want everyone in your household to have separate accounts then just have different logins...
rads 15y ago
Does Mountain Lion allow you to make apps full-screen on non-primary displays? This is the main problem I have with Lion.
- lunchladydoris 15y ago
  Agreed. I was more than a little annoyed to discover that I couldn't watch iTunes Store movies full-screen on my HD TV through an displayport-to-HDMI adapter after upgrading to Lion. I actually gave some thought to going back to Snow Leopard but that seemed more bother than it was worth so I started renting movies on the Xbox 360 instead.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- rads 15y ago
  I just installed the preview myself, and the answer is yes! It still gives the other displays a linen background and renders them useless, though.
miles_matthias 15y ago
I'm all for OS X adopting more and more of iOS because it's great for the user experience. However as a hacker it feels wrong to have a computer that is as locked down as iOS devices. BUT Apple showed me that they are listening and still want to cater to developers when they announced GateKeeper (http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html). I have a few friends who are switching to Unix instead of Mac OS X because of the direction it's going. For me, it's going to be all about how much Apple allows developers to innovate on their platform. We'll see what happens, but GateKeeper is a good sign.
- un1xl0ser 15y ago
  I agree that I don't like where it is going, but we aren't really the target audience. I was looking to get CrunchBang Linux running on my MBP, but realistically the battery life change will make the device hard to justify. If I am going to go back to 2-3 hours of battery life, I'm probably going to have to change my hardware setup to get a Thinkpad with a pair of nine cells. That said, I can't even flip my virtualization set-up, because I doubt that it is going to be smooth sailing (license-wise and technically) running a copy of OS X in VirtualBox or VMware.
dgallagher 15y ago
Can anyone comment on any differences in Mission Control (e.g. Spaces) between 10.7 and 10.8 beta?
cpr 15y ago
Sigh. Others have hinted at this, but I'll say it outright: I've been a pretty solid Mac user/developer for 25 years (with a 3-year interlude on Windows + ThinkPad towards the end of classic MacOS, when the lack of true multitasking and a "real" operating system just got unbearable). I suppose it's inevitable, but I really hate to see the Mac become just another part of the whole iOS ecosystem. There's nothing specific I can point to, but it does feel like the end of general-purpose computing for those of us who really like Apple hardware. Edit: Perhaps I'm wrong, and the cloudification is happening everywhere: with Chromebooks/Chrome OS, with Win8, etc. So maybe this is the inevitable regardless of which platform(s) one enjoys. Linux, here we come? ;-)
- callahad 15y ago
  I'm feeling the same malaise. I want to blame it on the Mac App Store, XCode dropping GNU GCC, Gatekeeper, etc. feeling like a slowly tightening noose, but honestly, I don't think that's it. After all, I'm willing to put up with the same sort of signed software model on Android. Still, if someone can point me to a hassle-free Linux laptop in a MacBook Air form factor, I'll jump ship in a heartbeat.
  - seurahepo 15y ago
    Going to LLVM and dropping GCC is the best single Dev Tools related choice Apple has done since acquiring NeXT.
  - seurahepo 15y ago
    Going to LLVM and dropping GCC is the best single Dev Tools related choice Apple has done since acquiring NeXT.
alexanderberman 15y ago
Does anyone else see Notes as an Evernote killer?
bwarp 15y ago
Nothing exciting. Let me quantify this before I get shot by the Apple fanboys. I'm not a Microsoft fanboy either but I am not buying the hype and feature sheet. Example: 1. iCloud. Have Windows Live ID and Live Mesh integration in windows for nearly 3 years now. Works across mobile devices already. 2. Messages. Windows Live Messenger has social integration already which is on par with this. 3. Reminders. Windows Live calendar does this and gives you alerts through windows live messenger and email. 4. Notes. NOTHING on this planet compares to Microsoft's OneNote. 5. Notification center. Windows live has one built in that you can integrate with. Oh and you also have the system tray. 6. Share sheets. Windows has had "sent to" since about 1996. 7. Twitter. Windows live integration. 8. Game center. We have shops for that and Steam and all sorts. It's an open market. 9. Airplay mirroring. Woo yay etc. Windows media player (!) does this with my Sony Bravia with no complaints. I can right click a video file and select "play on Bravia" and it appears on it straight away. This required NO CONFIGURATION and no special boxes. Both have wireless cards in them. No store or DRM available or required. 10. Gatekeeper. Windows firewall is actually on par with this and is an application AND/OR system level firewall. Microsoft security essentials is the rest. 11. Chinese features. Windows is the mainstream OS in china for a reason (i.e. excellent language support). The only thing above that cost anything is Windows (which cost effectively nothing as it came with the PC) and OneNote (which cost me 200GBP) and included Word, Excel and Outlook as well. Oh and the nice Acer TimelineX machine only cost me 400GBP, TV cost 300GBP so total 900GBP Compare that to a MacBook which cost more than that to start with at 999GBP. Oh and I don't have to pay 99GBP to write software that works on it. Visual Studio is free. Doesn't add up. Hmm.
- illumin8 15y ago
  OneNote only comes with Microsoft Office. Which you can also purchase for Mac. Xcode is free. A developer code signing certificate costs money whether you buy it through Apple or Verisign. Want to release trusted apps on Windows that don't throw up scary looking security warnings to your users that download them? Guess you'll need to pay $299 a year to Verisign or some other CA for that privilege. Gatekeeper is actually a cool feature because now any developer will be able to release signed applications without going through the app store approval process. If they do nasty things, their certificate gets revoked. You get the benefits to the user of running signed/trusted code, and the benefits to the developer of deploying for free, without app store approval.
coob 15y ago
The next time Apple does this style of announcement, I'm inclined to believe that they may release the info themselves half an hour or so before their embargo ends. The first I heard about this, before there were any changes to the Apple site, was a tweet.
huskyr 15y ago
So i need to reboot my Mac after installing the Messages demo? Can't remember ever seeing that with an Apple product other than Xcode.
- 286c8cb04bda 15y ago
  iTunes updates often require a reboot. Previous iWork installs have also. Most of the time, an actual restart is not required, just logging out and then back in.
Lewisham 15y ago
I know it's not a popular opinion, but yet again I feel like Apple has decided to simply keep status quo with Mac OS X, which is very much the same Mac OS X we got from about 10.3 onwards (Panther, wasn't it)? Think about how different Ubuntu is now since then. Windows 8 is a real risk-take from a company that does not take risks (whether they were forced to do so or not is another argument). Mac OS X is... Mac OS X again. I've been using Mac OS X since 10.2, and I will get another Apple machine for my next one, but I really don't know why they bother putting anything out if they're just going to phone it in each time. Pretty much everything added to Lion I really don't care for, and what they did add was minimal anyway. I wonder if they really have the vision and the tenacity to actually move things forward, or whether iOS and Mac OS X are going to remain the way they are until the company can't take it anymore. They need a software person like hardware needs Johnny Ive. Someone to put their foot down, say "we're doing this" and follow through. The next 10 years of Mac OS X cannot be the same as the last 10 years, can it?
- glhaynes 15y ago
  What is it you're wanting?
  - Lewisham 15y ago
    A feeling that I'm not buying the same OS each year. Personally, I think Microsoft's strategy of bringing back the hybrid desktop/tablet, where you can do tablet-type things on the road/in bed, then drop it into a dock and go back to mouse and keyboard for work, is pretty sound now. I like what they've done with Windows 8. I like that they're trying. What do I want from Apple? Probably something I don't know I want. I want to be able to drop an iPad into an iMac enclosure and have a hybrid work area. I want iCloud to be more than some weird, feature-free Dropbox (the new organization structure sounds like a misery for anyone with more than a handful of files). I want them to fix Finder and rethink the Dock. But this is like asking what I want from an iPhone before I ever saw one, and I think most people's ideas of what they wanted were so wildly off, and then Steve comes out and says "You want this" and he's right. That's what I want from them, to know me better than myself.
kule 15y ago
I'm surprised that there's still no mention of a Mac version of iBooks...
r00fus 15y ago
It's amusing that Gatekeeper's icon looks a lot like Microsoft Security Essentials, but that (and Messages) is probably my main draw - gotta keep the parents safe on their respective all-important iOS and OSX life-centers.
crag 15y ago
I wished they'd fix bugs in lion before releasing the next version. Bluetooth problems, wireless connection (mostly with new MBA's, etc ) - there are huge threads on both these issues in the Apple forums. Among many others.
nilsbunger 15y ago
The magic of Mac is that it's BOTH a great developer / hacker machine (POSIX/BSD + GNU tools with great hardware, power mgmt, etc), and a great machine for people who don't know how to use computers. It's inevitable that the layer for non-techies feels more and more integrated with iOS. Will we ever lose access to the do-anything BSD box underneath? That will be a sad day for me - Windows+cygwin is an abomination.
- there 15y ago
  I can't imagine Apple ever removing the open Unix access in its OS X server due to so many customers relying on it (though I can't really imagine them removing it in the normal OS X either, but who knows). Maybe power users will just have to upgrade to OS X server on their laptops, like Windows NT Workstation.
dean 15y ago
Yawn. A whole OS upgrade to move a few iPad apps to the desktop? Apps I don't even use on my iPad. Hopefully there will be more than this.
pnathan 15y ago
I guess I am looking at Lion and Mountain Lion and not seeing a place for someone who works outside of the Apple target audience. I like the way I use mac books, which is "skin over Unix with usable UX and a mighty fine piece of HW". I think it's time I started looking at high-end Linux laptops...
dekz 15y ago
So does this imply touchescreens with the iOS Gaming Center to come?
joejohnson 15y ago
The Messages beta has significantly impacted my productivity in one day. I no longer have to look down at my phone to text while I'm at my desk and instead can chat with my SO all day while I work, and the them it appears like a text message.
api 15y ago
I really hope they don't try to converge the interfaces too much. The design elements in Lion that were very iOS-like were IMHO the worst. The thing is: pads and phones are fundamentally different kinds of devices. Their UI paradigm is designed around frequent but brief and relatively shallow interactions, while a PC is for deeper longer-term interactions. Trying convergence here seems like something very easy to botch horribly.
- jonnathanson 15y ago
  Agreed. You really can't have a hybrid of the two. It ends up being neither fish nor fowl -- a suboptimal experience in either form. Either rip off the band-aid, and go swiftly but painfully through the transition to pure-iOS on everything, or keep OSX and iOS relatively separate (if, perhaps, working gradually toward more interoperability). My guess is that Apple is waiting for the day when cloud computing is the standard, and there is no longer a great deal of need for the hardware-based functionality or design of a laptop. When that day comes, a simple iOS-style interface might be fine for everything. In the meantime, however, there are still plenty of distinct use cases for Macs and iDevices. Arguably, we're still in the awkward adolescence of cloud computing. We know it's going to grow up quickly, but that day isn't quite here yet. (And let's not forget that Apple is a hardware company and, accordingly, is probably hesitant to hasten the demise of any of its key hardware lines).
- TazeTSchnitzel 15y ago
  In Microsoft's case, they're building a completely new UI for both PC and Tablet form factors in Windows 8, and from trying the Developer Preview, it seems to work OK on PC (although it does need a lot of tweaking)
squealingrat 15y ago
First off- I think Gatekeeper will further lure the average user into a false sense of security. Second, Apple needs to simplify how users are identified when communicating with iMessages. Third- it's curious that they didn't have a formal announcement.
niels_olson 15y ago
Any evidence in the preview that they plan to have 3G in their laptops?
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
SeanLuke 15y ago
Is it really true that Apple didn't realize it's already used this cat in an OS X release? OSX 10.1 Puma. Puma, Cougar, and Mountain Lion are names for the same species of cat (Puma concolor).
- msbarnett 15y ago
  The release code words are just that: code words. They're not meant to represent some kind of underlying biological reality. OS X 10.1 was not code-named "The biological species Puma concolor", and OS X 10.8 is not code-named "The biological species Puma concolor". The code-names "Puma" and "Mountain Lion" are distinct words, ergo they represent different releases. That in biology these words refer to the same species of cat is utterly irrelevant.
tensor 15y ago
The tie-ins to the closed Apple ecosystem are really startling. Take someone like myself. I have no iOS devices and have friends on various operating systems and services. Perhaps I'm a minority, but this is how it breaks down for me. iCloud - not useful, no iOS devices. Messages - not useful, too Apple centric, I already use Adium to interface with several non-apple services. Reminders - not useful, wont' sync to my phone. I already just use CalDAV via iCal for this. Notes - not useful, wont' sync anywhere, I already use the much better Evernote. Notification Center - maybe, but it only works with App Store apps of which I have few. I used to use Growl from the command line to notify me when long running computational jobs were completed, but if it's locked to App Store apps I suppose I won't be able to use it for that. Share Sheets - maybe, but I already use Sparrow instead of Mail and Chrome instead of Safari. I use another photo hosting site that isn't Flickr and don't use Twitter. Twitter - don't use it. Game Center - not at all a compelling feature for me. AirPlay Mirroring - don't have an Apple TV and prefer more open platforms for this. Gatekeeper - this is a good idea in principle, remains to be seen if it gets in the way. The exclusive partnering and increasingly closed Apple ecosystem is really showing. Maybe I'm a very small minority, but this direction is not in the slightest bit thrilling to me. Where are all the options to plug your own services into the system?
jsz0 15y ago
I really like where Apple is heading with OSX. With iCloud and a common set of features/services iOS and OSX are developing a very symbiotic relationship. It kind of confuses me to see people saying Apple is trying to turn OSX into iOS. It's really the exact opposite from my perspective. They are evolving OSX to be part of a future where SmartPhones/tablets are a major part of how people use technology. There has to be some degree of feature/usability parity for these devices to co-exist happily. Why should my $500 iPad have AirPlay and not my $1500 Mac? If I like using the Reminders app on my iPhone why shouldn't I have it on my Mac? I've yet to see any good argument against these features that doesn't rely pretty heavily on nostalgia or fear of change.
SODaniel 15y ago
OS version update for something that Windows would call an 'optional update'. Way to squeeze every drop of PR out of a few new icons Apple!
SODaniel 15y ago
Open letter to every UI designer trying to change 30+ years of usability of desktop interfaces, mouse actions and shortcuts behavior to 'iPad style' that has been out all of 3 years: DON'T!!
fuckapple 15y ago
apple products are overhyped shit. most of the world's bullshit patent problems go away if they do. don't buy their slave-labored garbage. why do they have so much money in the bank? same reason robber barons did. cost of production doesn't factor in externalities and market price is kept artificially high by trumped up demand.

465 points by cstuder 15y ago

is there a specific reason they needed to update the entire OS for this ? Most of the new features are actually apps, and the rest wouldn't really justify a major version change.

Argorak 15y ago
Well, Ubuntu does this every 6 months. They also pick another silly name every 12. Maybe Ubuntu is becoming the role model here?
- graywh 15y ago
  Every 6-month Ubuntu release has a silly name.
  - Argorak 15y ago
    Actually, yes. Comes from using LTS-releases only :).
    - mortil 15y ago
      LTS releases are every 24 months.
- Tichy 15y ago
  Ubuntu updates are free, though.
- bergie 15y ago
  The major difference is that with Ubuntu, apps and the OS/desktop share the same release cycle. I hope that could be decoupled, making life easier for application authors: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/application_quality_assurance_in_linux_distributions/ http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/application_quality_assurance_in_l...
ddagradi 15y ago
Don't forget all the API changes that present themselves with each new major version. For example, Notifications, GameCenter and Twitter are all new core libraries on the Mac that are accessible to developers.
idspispopd 15y ago
In these events they talk about the new features as they're the most recognisable for press, often examples of what some of the new APIs are capable. (Features, which could of course have been programmed to run atop 10.7 Lion.) E.g. growl does system wide notifications, but it's not built-in, and Apple like to control these things so they may more easily interface them with other Apple devices. (E.g. Apple could very easily make their Apple TV notify the user's iPhone when a new TV episode has been downloaded, or even schedule it onto their Mac.) With that in mind Apple have a history of meshing the experiences across their devices, the messages app is a recent example.
pwthornton 15y ago
This is an early preview. We don't know about all the new APIs and changes under the hood. Presumably there is a lot going on with the additional iCloud support. One of these years Apple is going to discontinue carbon API support and go 64-bit only. I doubt this release is it, but those kinds of under-the-hood features are not the kinds of things that you would talk about at this point. We'll learn more at WWDC.
jonhendry 15y ago
What they cover for the general public is usually only the most visible features. There's additional new stuff under the hood, which will be available for 3rd party developers to use in their apps. The benefits might not be apparent immediately, but they'll start showing up in apps written to take advantage of 10.8's features. Some improvements in the frameworks will effect existing apps that use those frameworks.

colonel_panic 15y ago

No mention of an OpenGL update. Still waiting out this stone age here...

wmf 15y ago
They didn't mention any low-level API changes, which could either mean there are none or they just didn't mention them.

Craiggybear 15y ago

Already?

latch 15y ago
they are adopting a 1-year release cycle.
- bdunbar 15y ago
  Fascinating. I'm still on 10.6: no compelling reason to upgrade. By the time I _do_ upgrade I'm in for some future shock: like dropping a Victorian gentleman into Haight-Ashbury in 1968.
  - vidarh 15y ago
    My work laptop is on 10.5.8...
    - cake 15y ago
      I'm still on 10.5.8 too, I want to upgrade but I really don't see any reason why I should.
    - bdunbar 15y ago
      I would probably still be on 10.5, but the new laptop came with 10.6.

oomkiller 15y ago

Is the messages beta download broken for anyone else? I would really like to send iMessages from my Mac.

dutchbrit 15y ago
Here you go... http://appldnld.apple.com/MessagesBeta/041-4274.20120216.z5km/MessagesBeta.dmg http://appldnld.apple.com/MessagesBeta/041-4274.20120216.z5k...

CJefferson 15y ago

Wow, that snuck out without much advanced fanfare (or I missed it). I first glance, the main (in fact only) feature seems to be porting several iOS apps and features (notes, reminders, game center, etc.) to Mac OS X, and syncing everything together with iCloud. There is also a Growl clone. Surprised this took so long. Then again, I personally don't like Growl, so I hope nothing depends on it being turned on. I notice that, so far, there doesn't seem to be any new 'technologies', just (mainly) ports of iOS apps. Looks very ho hum to me, but then again I have an android phone, so iOS syncing doesn't really interest me.

Hemospectrum 15y ago
Growl gets a lot of things wrong and stagnated for years with (until recently) no sign of improvement. It was ripe for disruption. Maybe Apple's implementation will be less depressing.
Timothee 15y ago
There is also a Growl clone. Surprised this took so long. Then again, I personally don't like Growl, so I hope nothing depends on it being turned on. It seems that Apple adopted a similar model as Notifications Center on iOS in that you can decide on a per-app basis what they can do: banner, badge, sound… See this MacWorld's screenshot: http://images.macworld.com/images/article/2012/02/notifications-cp-272379.jpg http://images.macworld.com/images/article/2012/02/notificati...

zdw 15y ago

Feature rundown: http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/features.html http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/features.html One of the more interesting bits is at the - they're supporting a bunch of China specific services.

127001brewer 15y ago
Very interesting. From the features list at the bottom: *It’s a new Mac experience in China. OS X Mountain Lion brings all-new support for many popular Chinese services. And they’re easy to set up. Mail, Contacts, and Calendar work with QQ, 163, and 126. Baidu, the leading Chinese search provider, is a built-in option in Safari. The video-sharing websites Youku and Tudou are included in the new Share Sheets, so users in China can easily post videos to the web. They can also blog with Sina weibo, the popular microblogging service. And with improved text input, typing in Chinese is easier, faster, and more accurate."
- smackfu 15y ago
  I'm surprised there wasn't a China Twitter equivalent baked in. Or do they just use Twitter?
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - philwelch 15y ago
    "Sina weibo, the popular microblogging service."? "Microblogging" is the generic term for Twitter clones, is it not?
    - smackfu 15y ago
      Good point, and the wording is a bit unclear over whether that goes on the "Sharing Sheets" or is more like the Twitter integration.

___Calv_Dee___ 15y ago

Apple, as usual, really seems to be getting it right. The feature list looks super promising as a nextstep (sorry, had to) in unifying mobile with desktop. It's nice to see that the desktop OS is not being abandoned but instead updated to better reflect a consumers preference for mobile (with good reason). Microsoft has also got it right by tying their Metro interface in Windows 8 to the Windows Phone OS. The attempt, however, falls short in that it is not really unifying the two platforms but instead providing a common interface and feel. In order to truly unite desktop with mobile, I believe you need to go beyond providing a common interface and really integrate the components so they exist to the user simultaneously instead of in parellel. This is just another verification (and in my opinion, a big one) that mobile is taking the reigns and is the future.

poodougnut 15y ago

Right, so they've completely trashed the interface.

va_coder 15y ago

It looks like an enormous distraction box. They should top it off with a widget for HN ;)

pilif 15y ago

It seems like the OS is either defaulting to allowing only only App Store applications or at least only (Apple-)signed applications: http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html It's still possible to turn this off, but I have a feeling that we should enjoy our freedom to run GNU grep instead of BSD grep for as long as it lasts.

oomkiller 15y ago
For some reason I doubt that this runs all the way down to the UNIX level of things. It's probably just the restriction to only run signed .app bundles, and maybe signed installer packages. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
gue5t 15y ago
I wonder how long it'll take crackers to get their hands on a master signing key.
- sjwright 15y ago
  About as long as it took them to get their hands on the iPhone master signing key, I'd wager.
st3fan 15y ago
Read what Gruber writes about that Gatekeep feature: My favorite Mountain Lion feature, though, is one that hardly even has a visible interface. Apple is calling it “Gatekeeper”. It’s a system whereby developers can sign up for free-of-charge Apple developer IDs which they can then use to cryptographically sign their applications. If an app is found to be malware, Apple can revoke that developer’s certificate, rendering the app (along with any others from the same developer) inert on any Mac where it’s been installed. In effect, it offers all the security benefits of the App Store, except for the process of approving apps by Apple. Users have three choices which type of apps can run on Mountain Lion: * Only those from the App Store * Only those from the App Store or which are signed by a developer ID * Any app, whether signed or unsigned The default for this setting is, I say, exactly right: the one in the middle, disallowing only unsigned apps. This default setting benefits users by increasing practical security, and also benefits developers, preserving the freedom to ship whatever software they want for the Mac, with no approval process.

ksajadi 15y ago

I wish anything that uses Growl can use notifications out of the box. it's just not going to happen is it?

edu 15y ago

I hope it'll be a free update.

sjwright 15y ago
I hope it'll be $29, because that's near enough to free, and I like the idea that Apple has a financial incentive to continue supporting their existing customers.
- edu 15y ago
  Then I will keep using Lion in hope they release a real OS X update sometime in the future for which I would pay play gladly as I've been doing with all the previous updated, because right now Mountain Lion is just a bunch of iOS Apps ported to OS X. I'm sorry, but IMO the value of this update is $0.
  - ceejayoz 15y ago
    "Real" updates used to cost $130. Now we get a couple updates for $30. In the long run, you're likely paying less for new features than you used to.
RKearney 15y ago
You mean like how every other update was free? It will cost $29
- edu 15y ago
  Yes, with the difference that the other OS X updates were not just a bunch of iOS Apps ported to the Mac, that why I paid for them and that's why if Mountain Lion is release with a price tag over $0 I'll keep using Lion (and hopefully this will incentivize Apple to make a real OS X update somewhere in 2013-2014).
- thomasjoulin 15y ago
  He meant like every iOS updates were free. It will be free

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

gkefalas 15y ago
You're misunderstanding. An app can be freely available outside of the App Store but still be signed: http://www.macworld.com/article/165408/2012/02/mountain_lion_hands_on_with_gatekeeper.html http://www.macworld.com/article/165408/2012/02/mountain_lion...
yusefnapora 15y ago
The default is the middle one - no unsigned apps, but they don't have to come from the App Store. Apple is going to start offering "Gatekeeper" certificates for non-App Store developers. The idea being that they can revoke a certificate if an app turns out to be malicious.

zephyrfalcon 15y ago

I'm not sure if this matters or not, but the submitted title calls it "Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion", and 10.8 is indeed the version number I would expect; yet this number is nowhere to be found, neither on Apple's page nor in Gruber's announcement. Instead, it's just called "OS X Mountain Lion" everywhere. I wonder if they dropped the version number, or are downplaying it? But for what reason?

cmelbye 15y ago
I saw a screenshot of the "About This Mac" screen that displayed 10.8 as the version number. I believe it was on the TechCrunch article.
- macuenca 15y ago
  This is the article your talking about: http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/16/os-x-mountain-lion/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/16/os-x-mountain-lion/

graywh 15y ago

But they've already had a "Puma" release. Will "Cougar" be next? Side note: panthers are technically black leopards or jaguars.

mikerg87 15y ago

But where is the Mac Touch hardware ? you could see for a while where touch was it and we have these nice laptops and big iMac displays but we will use a mouse ?! I really want my next imac to be a docking station with a tear away tablet Windows 8 is definately banking having this sort of hardware in laptops and displays being available. You dont do Metro on the desktop unless you think that kind of hardware will be available in some form at launch. Metro with a mouse is hideous, even for Microsoft...

wtallis 15y ago
I don't think the technology exists to make large tablets ergonomically feasible. In order for the tablet portion to be light enough to casually pick up and carry around, it would have to be not much larger than an iPad, which is to say, less than half the smallest reasonable screen size for a desktop.
rsynnott 15y ago
You'd have to either make your operating system work very well with both touch and mouse/trackpad/keyboard (very difficult), treat touch as a gimmick (as with those Windows 7 HP iMac-like things with touch screens), or make touch (which is ergonomically highly problematic on anything but a smallish tablet) the first-class citizen.

saturdaysaint 15y ago

-I'd probably pay $30 for the Airplay feature alone. -I don't know how Apple thinks they can push these web-enabled apps that only work on their platforms. A chat app that basically only lets you interact with Apple customers is kind of comical. -Gatekeeper won't win over any Apple critics, but it's actually more flexible/open than what a lot of people feared was coming (ie "App Store apps only"). -Notifications and system-wide share buttons are nice touches. I wonder if the share button will be limited to a few Apple-approved services.

davidcollantes 15y ago
Related to this, all my friends and family are already using an Apple product (referring to either iPhone, iPad or a Mac, or all inclusive). Really, everyone I know is. A chat app (and any other) that let me interact with them is perfect.
jws 15y ago
A chat app that basically only lets you interact with Apple customers is kind of comical. – would be. Thankfully you probably know people with AIM, XMPP, or SMS chat identities. And iChat works with those too. From the official Apple pages: Messages supports iMessage and instant messaging services such as AIM, Jabber, Google Talk, and Yahoo! Messenger.
- bergie 15y ago
  It would be great if they brought those other protocols to the iOS Messages app as well
- phamilton 15y ago
  What I would really like is if Google Voice could integrate with Messages so all my SMS needs could be taken care of.
gearoidoc 15y ago
"A chat app that basically only lets you interact with Apple customers is kind of comical" Ehm, it's iChat linked to iMessage. It still supports chatting over gmail, yahoo etc.

furyg3 15y ago

You can get the Messages application in beta form here: http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/messages-beta/ http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/messages-beta/

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- stephenson 15y ago
  Works fine from denmark...
- Luc 15y ago
  For me too (Belgium), but... ctrl-u, ctrl-f '.dmg'. Easy peasy.
- dan1234 15y ago
  Working fine in the UK
- dutchbrit 15y ago
  Anyone having issues... Because I got that message too - that an error occurred, http://appldnld.apple.com/MessagesBeta/041-4274.20120216.z5km/MessagesBeta.dmg http://appldnld.apple.com/MessagesBeta/041-4274.20120216.z5k... Direct link =)
- kellysutton 15y ago
  Fine from Germany.
brown9-2 15y ago
Expectedly, but somewhat of a bummer, it requires Lion :(

dfc 15y ago

How is the iCloud focus going to effect corporate adoption? If you are a large company can you host your own iCloud service on company resources? Does/will apple provide a sas70 for big corporate users?

ori_b 15y ago

"OS X Mountain Lion arrives this summer. With all-new features inspired by iPad, the Mac just keeps getting better and better." Am I the only person that doesn't want an ipad on the desktop?

antidaily 15y ago
No, no one wants that (I hope). Read the Gruber preview and you'll feel more at ease. OS X and iOS are not merging. He describes Mountain Lion as "a series of steps toward defining a set of shared concepts, styles, and principles between two fundamentally distinct OSes." http://daringfireball.net/2012/02/mountain_lion http://daringfireball.net/2012/02/mountain_lion
- hahainternet 15y ago
  I asked a few friends and couldn't get an answer. What features have been taken from OSX and put into iOS? It seems to me that contrary to Gruber's claim, OSX is moving towards iOS and iOS is moving towards its competition.
  - philwelch 15y ago
    What features have been taken from OSX and put into iOS? Oh, not much--just the whole kernel, userland, graphics layer, and half of the Cocoa API. EDIT: Also, Spotlight.
    - CrazedGeek 15y ago
      Features, not specs.
      - ntkachov 15y ago
        Whats the difference?
      - ceejayoz 15y ago
        Mail, Safari, iCal, accessibility, the Stocks / Weather dashboard widgets, Photo Booth, iWork, GarageBand, Airport Utility... Hell, iCloud had its roots in Mac.com.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

Karunamon 15y ago
Don't choose to be offended, then.
jonhendry 15y ago
It's not really considered offensive in the US. Here it doesn't have the connotations it has in the UK. It's like "Fanny". In the US, it's an inoffensive synonym for your buttocks. In the UK, it's a woman's vulva, so a bit more risqué.

AznHisoka 15y ago

Am I the only one afraid of upgrading my Mac in fear of breaking my Ruby gems, MySQL drivers, C libraries, ImageMagick, environment variables, iOS libraries, provisioning certificates, etc?

mbesto 15y ago

The walls are slowly going up around the garden...

jpravetz 15y ago
I'm most alarmed with this restriction: iCloud document storage and Notification Center. Both of these are slated only for third-party apps from the Mac App Store. Many developers, though, have been maintaining non-Mac App Store versions of their apps. If this continues, such apps are going to lose feature parity between the App Store and non-App Store versions. This will affect software from companies such as Adobe where custom installers are necessary and/or the economics of taking a 30% App Store hit is not necessary when they can already reach their customer base. The move strikes me as anti competitive.

Gring 15y ago

According to the screenshots, the spotlight icon is no longer on the top right, getting shuffled over to the left by presumably a new icon to invoke notification center. That's a really bad choice. The corners are the click targets fastest to reach (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fittss_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fittss_law ), and demoting searching in favor of 'reading messages that have popped up before' doesn't strike me as quite well-balanced.

ConstantineXVI 15y ago
It gets worse; can also call it up with a two-finger swipe to the left. Not sure why they're so intent on overloading that gesture. Two fingers in SL: * Scroll. Two fingers in ML: * Scroll * or back/forward * or Notification Center
- cpr 15y ago
  It looks like the two fingers have to come in from the right side of the scroll area (like pulling down on the top of the screen--the right side in this case), so it's distinct from the other meanings.
jedberg 15y ago
Command-Space opens spotlight, and if you're gonna search, you might as well already have your hand on they keyboard. I actually like it better -- I'm much more likely to activate notifications with a mouse, so I'd much rather have that be the "bigger" target.

mmuro 15y ago

I'm looking forward to the day when I don't have to worry about my file system and apps just know what files it needs or can view. iCloud seems to be moving things in that direction.

pwthornton 15y ago

The thing I'm by far the most excited about is AirPlay Mirroring. If I'm reading this correctly, I'll be able to mirror anything from my Mac to my TV using an Apple TV. This will be great for watching Internet videos, going through my iPhoto library with my wife, looking at home videos, etc. All without needing a stupid cable from my couch to my TV. The deeper iCloud integration is also intriguing. I assume this means proper syncing between documents on a Mac, iPad and iPhone. This will be a huge feature, and is currently a major stumbling block with iCloud. I want my documents to sync to my mobile devices. Those two features alone are pretty big. Beyond that, I'm interested to here about the new APIs and anything else that has been changed under the hood. OS X Lion has always been a little bit buggy (the latest release is pretty solid, however). I wonder if Mountain Lion will be like Snow Leopard where it tightens up a lot of things under the hood and gives us a better realization of the OS. I'm excited for Gatekeeper for my parents and other people I know that aren't that tech savvy. This could save me a lot of headaches.

orionlogic 15y ago
I am excited as well in AirPlay Mirroring so i watched several times in the demo. It seems video plays with Quicktime. So lot's of video formats are not compatible like mkv's, iso's etc... If somehow i am able to mirror VLC i will run and buy Apple TV at once.
- janus 15y ago
  If you install Perian, Quicktime supports expands to include many more formats http://perian.org/ http://perian.org/ But I agree and would welcome the support for VLC too!
  - orionlogic 15y ago
    I already have Perian. It's not supported well imho. Just try to open a 8gb mkv and it broke QT.
    - calloc 15y ago

josteink 15y ago

Accidentally bans ultrabooks in the process. http://mashable.com/2012/02/15/apple-patents-macbook-air/ http://mashable.com/2012/02/15/apple-patents-macbook-air/

jws 15y ago
Just a design patent [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent], nothing to see here. Don't make your ultra book look like an air and you are fine. (Hint: pay attention to materials, radiuses, colors, and angles.) How close you can get involves how much tolerance you have for litigation and risking a loss.
wmf 15y ago
That's no accident. And why should somebody be allowed to make a laptop that looks exactly like an Air?

lean 15y ago

"Notes" still uses Marker Felt as the font, and faux yellow legal pad background?! Sigh. I thought Macs were for designers?

feralchimp 15y ago

I for one welcome our new OS-level code signature verification overlords. May they smite evil and incompetence swiftly and brutally...except when 'evil' is defined by foreign governments, domestic law enforcement, or fair competition with built-in features. With great power comes great "you guys better not fuck this up."

yequalsx 15y ago
"If an app is found to be malware, Apple can revoke that developer’s certificate, rendering the app (along with any others from the same developer) inert on any Mac where it’s been installed. " Yeah, it's not a great reach to think that in five years there will be no Option 3 and malware will include any program that the government of the nation that your computer is in deems undesirable. Apple and Microsoft will likely be forced to have such capabilities by various national governments.
- maercsrats 15y ago
  If you think it's that possible then why not contact your congress person/senator and have them look into this? In fact, talk to them about drafting a law against not being able to install software of your choosing on a machine you buy. Or, at the very least, a law for being able to take your data with you when you decide to leave a platform. This wouldn't help China, Iran, Syria, etc. but it would at least give US citizens some protections. Personally, I'm not very afraid of option 3 ever going away but I also am ready with a FreeBSD VM instance.

rbanffy 15y ago

"Log out, stage left!" Sorry folks, Couldn't resist.

dedene 15y ago

Is it just me or is the iMessage Beta icon very very similar to the HipChat icon? :) http://cl.ly/3m060G3x1o2X3I1u3I1D http://cl.ly/3m060G3x1o2X3I1u3I1D

ceejayoz 15y ago
Messages (iChat) has been around far longer than HipChat.

antirez 15y ago

Messages is great, but is there a way to get every iMessage duplicated across iPhone / Mac? Otherwise you send an iMessage, close the mac, grap the iPhone and go away, but never get the reply back. And so forth.

yankcrime 15y ago
It's duplicated for me. A conversation I had with a friend via iMessage and his iPhone sync'd up on my phone a few minutes later.
- antirez 15y ago
  Ok so I guess it's just the "beta" part of the issue ;) Thank you.
a2tech 15y ago
Thats the way it works. My iPad, iPhone and now Messages Beta display every message
- Arelius 15y ago
  At least 2 weeks ago I also was not seeing that behaivor. I had to unpaid my iPad because I was missing vital messages on my iPhone. Its possible that my iPhone was out of service at the time. But that shouldnt matternn

ashleyw 15y ago

The worrying thing about Apple's Gatekeeper feature isn't that they may impose their moral opinions on apps, but that governments and corporate entities will have the ability to pressure Apple into disabling apps which aren't actually malicious, i.e. Tor & BitCoin. Whether or not it can be disabled is irrelevant. I don't want to have to instruct my customers about how to essentially jailbreak their Mac just to use my app. And will it just be .app applications which need to be signed, or will it be all binaries, e.g. Vim and Apache? Worrying times indeed. I don't particularly want to use Linux, cause I really love OS X's elegance, but I can see switching being a real possibility over the next few years if Apple continues the trend of forcing iOS's walled-garden on OS X.

xster 15y ago

notes and reminders are features?? sigh... I miss steve...

j45 15y ago

I hope it doesn't turn out to be Mountain Goat. Lion broke my external displays working properly while in clamshell (closed laptop) mode. Conveniently, if I connect it to an Apple display, it's magic, but somehow not.

jakemcgraw 15y ago

Wow. It's the reverse digital hub strategy. The peripheral devices (iPod, iPhone, iPad) are now more popular than the Mac. So, rather than sunset the Mac, Apple makes it so that if you own own of these devices, a Mac will be the default choice.

xster 15y ago

how much you think you should pay? 1000$????? 500$????? nooooooo!! only 99$, you get a clock, paint and even reversi! for only 99$!!

2mur 15y ago

The only thing that I really dislike about iCloud is sharing a computer (with your wife/family). Our family room computer is a mac mini that is logged into one user account all of the time. It is shared by myself, my wife and my kids. The iPhoto on that account is set up to use my iCloud account. If my wife wants to get her photos (iPhone) downloaded from iCloud she has to log over to an account that only exists for this purpose. So I'm sure the whole documents, todos, calendar and everything else on 10.8 is going to be a similar pain in the ass for people sharing one computer. We have to manage three AppleIDs. My iCloud account, her iCloud account and we share an AppleID for purchases from the App Store. They need to fix this for multi-Apple families.

Aloisius 15y ago
Why don't you use multiple user accounts on your Mac Mini? That's pretty much what it is designed for.
- pwelch 15y ago
  I agree. For those who want one account for everyone then just register all your devices. If you want everyone in your household to have separate accounts then just have different logins...

rads 15y ago

Does Mountain Lion allow you to make apps full-screen on non-primary displays? This is the main problem I have with Lion.

lunchladydoris 15y ago
Agreed. I was more than a little annoyed to discover that I couldn't watch iTunes Store movies full-screen on my HD TV through an displayport-to-HDMI adapter after upgrading to Lion. I actually gave some thought to going back to Snow Leopard but that seemed more bother than it was worth so I started renting movies on the Xbox 360 instead.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
rads 15y ago
I just installed the preview myself, and the answer is yes! It still gives the other displays a linen background and renders them useless, though.

miles_matthias 15y ago

I'm all for OS X adopting more and more of iOS because it's great for the user experience. However as a hacker it feels wrong to have a computer that is as locked down as iOS devices. BUT Apple showed me that they are listening and still want to cater to developers when they announced GateKeeper (http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html). I have a few friends who are switching to Unix instead of Mac OS X because of the direction it's going. For me, it's going to be all about how much Apple allows developers to innovate on their platform. We'll see what happens, but GateKeeper is a good sign.

un1xl0ser 15y ago
I agree that I don't like where it is going, but we aren't really the target audience. I was looking to get CrunchBang Linux running on my MBP, but realistically the battery life change will make the device hard to justify. If I am going to go back to 2-3 hours of battery life, I'm probably going to have to change my hardware setup to get a Thinkpad with a pair of nine cells. That said, I can't even flip my virtualization set-up, because I doubt that it is going to be smooth sailing (license-wise and technically) running a copy of OS X in VirtualBox or VMware.

dgallagher 15y ago

Can anyone comment on any differences in Mission Control (e.g. Spaces) between 10.7 and 10.8 beta?

cpr 15y ago

Sigh. Others have hinted at this, but I'll say it outright: I've been a pretty solid Mac user/developer for 25 years (with a 3-year interlude on Windows + ThinkPad towards the end of classic MacOS, when the lack of true multitasking and a "real" operating system just got unbearable). I suppose it's inevitable, but I really hate to see the Mac become just another part of the whole iOS ecosystem. There's nothing specific I can point to, but it does feel like the end of general-purpose computing for those of us who really like Apple hardware. Edit: Perhaps I'm wrong, and the cloudification is happening everywhere: with Chromebooks/Chrome OS, with Win8, etc. So maybe this is the inevitable regardless of which platform(s) one enjoys. Linux, here we come? ;-)

callahad 15y ago
I'm feeling the same malaise. I want to blame it on the Mac App Store, XCode dropping GNU GCC, Gatekeeper, etc. feeling like a slowly tightening noose, but honestly, I don't think that's it. After all, I'm willing to put up with the same sort of signed software model on Android. Still, if someone can point me to a hassle-free Linux laptop in a MacBook Air form factor, I'll jump ship in a heartbeat.
- seurahepo 15y ago
  Going to LLVM and dropping GCC is the best single Dev Tools related choice Apple has done since acquiring NeXT.
- seurahepo 15y ago
  Going to LLVM and dropping GCC is the best single Dev Tools related choice Apple has done since acquiring NeXT.

alexanderberman 15y ago

Does anyone else see Notes as an Evernote killer?

bwarp 15y ago

Nothing exciting. Let me quantify this before I get shot by the Apple fanboys. I'm not a Microsoft fanboy either but I am not buying the hype and feature sheet. Example: 1. iCloud. Have Windows Live ID and Live Mesh integration in windows for nearly 3 years now. Works across mobile devices already. 2. Messages. Windows Live Messenger has social integration already which is on par with this. 3. Reminders. Windows Live calendar does this and gives you alerts through windows live messenger and email. 4. Notes. NOTHING on this planet compares to Microsoft's OneNote. 5. Notification center. Windows live has one built in that you can integrate with. Oh and you also have the system tray. 6. Share sheets. Windows has had "sent to" since about 1996. 7. Twitter. Windows live integration. 8. Game center. We have shops for that and Steam and all sorts. It's an open market. 9. Airplay mirroring. Woo yay etc. Windows media player (!) does this with my Sony Bravia with no complaints. I can right click a video file and select "play on Bravia" and it appears on it straight away. This required NO CONFIGURATION and no special boxes. Both have wireless cards in them. No store or DRM available or required. 10. Gatekeeper. Windows firewall is actually on par with this and is an application AND/OR system level firewall. Microsoft security essentials is the rest. 11. Chinese features. Windows is the mainstream OS in china for a reason (i.e. excellent language support). The only thing above that cost anything is Windows (which cost effectively nothing as it came with the PC) and OneNote (which cost me 200GBP) and included Word, Excel and Outlook as well. Oh and the nice Acer TimelineX machine only cost me 400GBP, TV cost 300GBP so total 900GBP Compare that to a MacBook which cost more than that to start with at 999GBP. Oh and I don't have to pay 99GBP to write software that works on it. Visual Studio is free. Doesn't add up. Hmm.

illumin8 15y ago
OneNote only comes with Microsoft Office. Which you can also purchase for Mac. Xcode is free. A developer code signing certificate costs money whether you buy it through Apple or Verisign. Want to release trusted apps on Windows that don't throw up scary looking security warnings to your users that download them? Guess you'll need to pay $299 a year to Verisign or some other CA for that privilege. Gatekeeper is actually a cool feature because now any developer will be able to release signed applications without going through the app store approval process. If they do nasty things, their certificate gets revoked. You get the benefits to the user of running signed/trusted code, and the benefits to the developer of deploying for free, without app store approval.

coob 15y ago

The next time Apple does this style of announcement, I'm inclined to believe that they may release the info themselves half an hour or so before their embargo ends. The first I heard about this, before there were any changes to the Apple site, was a tweet.

huskyr 15y ago

So i need to reboot my Mac after installing the Messages demo? Can't remember ever seeing that with an Apple product other than Xcode.

286c8cb04bda 15y ago
iTunes updates often require a reboot. Previous iWork installs have also. Most of the time, an actual restart is not required, just logging out and then back in.

Lewisham 15y ago

I know it's not a popular opinion, but yet again I feel like Apple has decided to simply keep status quo with Mac OS X, which is very much the same Mac OS X we got from about 10.3 onwards (Panther, wasn't it)? Think about how different Ubuntu is now since then. Windows 8 is a real risk-take from a company that does not take risks (whether they were forced to do so or not is another argument). Mac OS X is... Mac OS X again. I've been using Mac OS X since 10.2, and I will get another Apple machine for my next one, but I really don't know why they bother putting anything out if they're just going to phone it in each time. Pretty much everything added to Lion I really don't care for, and what they did add was minimal anyway. I wonder if they really have the vision and the tenacity to actually move things forward, or whether iOS and Mac OS X are going to remain the way they are until the company can't take it anymore. They need a software person like hardware needs Johnny Ive. Someone to put their foot down, say "we're doing this" and follow through. The next 10 years of Mac OS X cannot be the same as the last 10 years, can it?

glhaynes 15y ago
What is it you're wanting?
- Lewisham 15y ago
  A feeling that I'm not buying the same OS each year. Personally, I think Microsoft's strategy of bringing back the hybrid desktop/tablet, where you can do tablet-type things on the road/in bed, then drop it into a dock and go back to mouse and keyboard for work, is pretty sound now. I like what they've done with Windows 8. I like that they're trying. What do I want from Apple? Probably something I don't know I want. I want to be able to drop an iPad into an iMac enclosure and have a hybrid work area. I want iCloud to be more than some weird, feature-free Dropbox (the new organization structure sounds like a misery for anyone with more than a handful of files). I want them to fix Finder and rethink the Dock. But this is like asking what I want from an iPhone before I ever saw one, and I think most people's ideas of what they wanted were so wildly off, and then Steve comes out and says "You want this" and he's right. That's what I want from them, to know me better than myself.

kule 15y ago

I'm surprised that there's still no mention of a Mac version of iBooks...

r00fus 15y ago

It's amusing that Gatekeeper's icon looks a lot like Microsoft Security Essentials, but that (and Messages) is probably my main draw - gotta keep the parents safe on their respective all-important iOS and OSX life-centers.

crag 15y ago

I wished they'd fix bugs in lion before releasing the next version. Bluetooth problems, wireless connection (mostly with new MBA's, etc ) - there are huge threads on both these issues in the Apple forums. Among many others.

nilsbunger 15y ago

The magic of Mac is that it's BOTH a great developer / hacker machine (POSIX/BSD + GNU tools with great hardware, power mgmt, etc), and a great machine for people who don't know how to use computers. It's inevitable that the layer for non-techies feels more and more integrated with iOS. Will we ever lose access to the do-anything BSD box underneath? That will be a sad day for me - Windows+cygwin is an abomination.

there 15y ago
I can't imagine Apple ever removing the open Unix access in its OS X server due to so many customers relying on it (though I can't really imagine them removing it in the normal OS X either, but who knows). Maybe power users will just have to upgrade to OS X server on their laptops, like Windows NT Workstation.

dean 15y ago

Yawn. A whole OS upgrade to move a few iPad apps to the desktop? Apps I don't even use on my iPad. Hopefully there will be more than this.

pnathan 15y ago

I guess I am looking at Lion and Mountain Lion and not seeing a place for someone who works outside of the Apple target audience. I like the way I use mac books, which is "skin over Unix with usable UX and a mighty fine piece of HW". I think it's time I started looking at high-end Linux laptops...

dekz 15y ago

So does this imply touchescreens with the iOS Gaming Center to come?

joejohnson 15y ago

The Messages beta has significantly impacted my productivity in one day. I no longer have to look down at my phone to text while I'm at my desk and instead can chat with my SO all day while I work, and the them it appears like a text message.

api 15y ago

I really hope they don't try to converge the interfaces too much. The design elements in Lion that were very iOS-like were IMHO the worst. The thing is: pads and phones are fundamentally different kinds of devices. Their UI paradigm is designed around frequent but brief and relatively shallow interactions, while a PC is for deeper longer-term interactions. Trying convergence here seems like something very easy to botch horribly.

jonnathanson 15y ago
Agreed. You really can't have a hybrid of the two. It ends up being neither fish nor fowl -- a suboptimal experience in either form. Either rip off the band-aid, and go swiftly but painfully through the transition to pure-iOS on everything, or keep OSX and iOS relatively separate (if, perhaps, working gradually toward more interoperability). My guess is that Apple is waiting for the day when cloud computing is the standard, and there is no longer a great deal of need for the hardware-based functionality or design of a laptop. When that day comes, a simple iOS-style interface might be fine for everything. In the meantime, however, there are still plenty of distinct use cases for Macs and iDevices. Arguably, we're still in the awkward adolescence of cloud computing. We know it's going to grow up quickly, but that day isn't quite here yet. (And let's not forget that Apple is a hardware company and, accordingly, is probably hesitant to hasten the demise of any of its key hardware lines).
TazeTSchnitzel 15y ago
In Microsoft's case, they're building a completely new UI for both PC and Tablet form factors in Windows 8, and from trying the Developer Preview, it seems to work OK on PC (although it does need a lot of tweaking)

squealingrat 15y ago

First off- I think Gatekeeper will further lure the average user into a false sense of security. Second, Apple needs to simplify how users are identified when communicating with iMessages. Third- it's curious that they didn't have a formal announcement.

niels_olson 15y ago

Any evidence in the preview that they plan to have 3G in their laptops?

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

SeanLuke 15y ago

Is it really true that Apple didn't realize it's already used this cat in an OS X release? OSX 10.1 Puma. Puma, Cougar, and Mountain Lion are names for the same species of cat (Puma concolor).

msbarnett 15y ago
The release code words are just that: code words. They're not meant to represent some kind of underlying biological reality. OS X 10.1 was not code-named "The biological species Puma concolor", and OS X 10.8 is not code-named "The biological species Puma concolor". The code-names "Puma" and "Mountain Lion" are distinct words, ergo they represent different releases. That in biology these words refer to the same species of cat is utterly irrelevant.

tensor 15y ago

The tie-ins to the closed Apple ecosystem are really startling. Take someone like myself. I have no iOS devices and have friends on various operating systems and services. Perhaps I'm a minority, but this is how it breaks down for me. iCloud - not useful, no iOS devices. Messages - not useful, too Apple centric, I already use Adium to interface with several non-apple services. Reminders - not useful, wont' sync to my phone. I already just use CalDAV via iCal for this. Notes - not useful, wont' sync anywhere, I already use the much better Evernote. Notification Center - maybe, but it only works with App Store apps of which I have few. I used to use Growl from the command line to notify me when long running computational jobs were completed, but if it's locked to App Store apps I suppose I won't be able to use it for that. Share Sheets - maybe, but I already use Sparrow instead of Mail and Chrome instead of Safari. I use another photo hosting site that isn't Flickr and don't use Twitter. Twitter - don't use it. Game Center - not at all a compelling feature for me. AirPlay Mirroring - don't have an Apple TV and prefer more open platforms for this. Gatekeeper - this is a good idea in principle, remains to be seen if it gets in the way. The exclusive partnering and increasingly closed Apple ecosystem is really showing. Maybe I'm a very small minority, but this direction is not in the slightest bit thrilling to me. Where are all the options to plug your own services into the system?

jsz0 15y ago

I really like where Apple is heading with OSX. With iCloud and a common set of features/services iOS and OSX are developing a very symbiotic relationship. It kind of confuses me to see people saying Apple is trying to turn OSX into iOS. It's really the exact opposite from my perspective. They are evolving OSX to be part of a future where SmartPhones/tablets are a major part of how people use technology. There has to be some degree of feature/usability parity for these devices to co-exist happily. Why should my $500 iPad have AirPlay and not my $1500 Mac? If I like using the Reminders app on my iPhone why shouldn't I have it on my Mac? I've yet to see any good argument against these features that doesn't rely pretty heavily on nostalgia or fear of change.

SODaniel 15y ago

OS version update for something that Windows would call an 'optional update'. Way to squeeze every drop of PR out of a few new icons Apple!

SODaniel 15y ago

Open letter to every UI designer trying to change 30+ years of usability of desktop interfaces, mouse actions and shortcuts behavior to 'iPad style' that has been out all of 3 years: DON'T!!

fuckapple 15y ago

apple products are overhyped shit. most of the world's bullshit patent problems go away if they do. don't buy their slave-labored garbage. why do they have so much money in the bank? same reason robber barons did. cost of production doesn't factor in externalities and market price is kept artificially high by trumped up demand.