9 ms·

Report reveals Android users switching to iPhone at 5-year high

26 points by retskrad 3y ago

smt88 3y ago
I switched to iOS recently. It is worse in every conceivable way. It's much buggier, harder to use (lots of hidden UI and surprising inconsistencies), and less flexible. I can't change defaults, and Siri is unfathomably bad. I'm not going to switch back for only one reason: iMessage. I'm using a phone/OS that I absolutely loathe every day and causes me rage aneurysms, but the iMessage network effect is too strong for me to switch back. This is why regulators need to do something about the wireless market (operating systems, carriers, and app stores). These companies don't have to compete the way they should.
- lgas 3y ago
  What do you get out of iMessage and its network effect besides blue text instead of green?
  - DrBenCarson 3y ago
    In the US? Friends. You will literally lose out on social activities bc of SMS.
    - lgas 3y ago
      I'm in the US and have an iPhone but as I mentioned in another reply, I have friends with android and have never noticed any impediments to texting them... or them me? Is this a high school thing or are you talking about adults?
      - DrBenCarson 3y ago
        Adults will comb group texts for the number preventing them from sending a photo at usable resolution and delete them.
        DANmode 3y ago
        Adults also send emails to 45 clear-text To: addresses, or Reply All thousands of people. Is this a good heuristic for acceptable behavior?
        DrBenCarson 3y ago
        I’m not making a judgement, just an observation. Ultimately in this case they’re moving from cleartext to an E2EE platform (iMessage) so maybe you’d be happier in this case?
      - MAGZine 3y ago
        I, as an adult, have been left out of many many group texts (and thus social activities) because they didn't want to make the convo green. Queue the onslaught of empathetic "get better friends lol" -- except I've seen this behaviour across so many social circles that even if it was a viable suggestion, there's no certainty the next group would be any better.
        DANmode 3y ago
        I feel like I would move if I couldn't find any social circle aside from rabid blue-bubblers.
        DrBenCarson 3y ago
        You would emigrate from the US?
        DANmode 3y ago
        You incorrectly believe your experience is representative of all of the vastly differing experiences of those in the US. The phenomenon you're commenting on/describing happens often, perhaps is even common. But it is not ubiquitous.
      - devnulll 3y ago
        There are any number family group chats that leave my sister out of things. She's the only Android user out of about 20 people. If she's on the threads then pictures, videos, and reactions are all broken. This is 100% deliberate by Apple, but the bias against Android users is real.
        DANmode 3y ago
        > but the bias against Android users is real. From people who don't know it's an intentional limitation by Apple. aka, mostly nontechnical people.
        Mumps 3y ago
        Genuinely asking: your family is not willing to use WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Teams, Discord, ..., to have your sister be included?
        DANmode 3y ago
        "Why should they have to install an extra app just because she wants to be different?" Experiencing this sort of behavior keeps me from believing I am an understanding person.
    - George83728 3y ago
      I think I'm better off without such vapid people as friends. None of my friends with iphones have ever complained about me having an android, nor can I even imagine them doing something like that. Bullying somebody for their consumer choices is far beyond the pale. You may as well say that not owning a BMW will lose you potential friends because some BMW drivers will sneer at you. Maybe that's true, but who's loss is that really?
      - DrBenCarson 3y ago
        It’s not explicit. It’s the added friction that places you a bit outside the “inner circle.” Can’t FaceTime? Oh I’ll call you later. Can’t watch the video I sent to the group? I’ll show you later. Little things add up. Now you’re missing inside jokes, impromptu plans, etc.
        lapetitejort 3y ago
        I took a picture of a car driving away from a hit and run. The victim asked for the picture, but because I couldn't airdrop it, he'd rather just write down the license plate. I offered to text or email but he refused. A small amount of friction caused him to miss out on potential evidence.
        George83728 3y ago
        > I offered to text or email So because you weren't an asshole, you were willing to adapt to his use of android. Doesn't that illustrate my point? People who aren't assholes are willing to be flexible. If you had insisted on airdrop or nothing, that would be different. > but he refused It sounds like he didn't think the picture was important and only wanted the license plate number. This isn't an android/iphone matter at all.
        lapetitejort 3y ago
        My inadvertent lack of detail leads to an interesting misunderstanding. I am the android user. So in the iPhone user's case, it was airdrop or nothing. The picture was important enough to ask for but not important enough to spend an extra thirty seconds dictating a email address. The picture has more detail than just the license plate. It also had the car make, model, condition, road, position, and metadata. However, I'm not sure the legality (chain of custody, etc) of someone's hastily shot picture of a car driving when dealing with a hit-and-run. Better to have and not need though.
  - nickthegreek 3y ago
    happy acquaintances that are more likely to include you in social activities.
    - lgas 3y ago
      Really? I have an iphone but I have friends with android and have never noticed any impediments to texting them... or them me?
      - nickthegreek 3y ago
        Do you guys send media? Group texts with younger cohorts can be filled with gifs, videos, live images, and just regular pics. All of which look like trash when using MMS. This greatly lowers the quality and value of the group chat. People might then remake a group chat without the android user to send the media, and then people just start talking in that group chat and the other dies. While it might not affect you personally, do know that other people behave this way.
  - goosedragons 3y ago
    Better group chats, higher quality images and videos, the reaction instead of "Loved an image" or whatever.
  - dwaltrip 3y ago
    iMessage features not present in MMS: * Reactions * Threaded replies (1 level deep) * You can name group chats and give them a custom image / icon (makes it easier find a group in the list). The name and image is applied for everyone in the group, making it a social thing * You can add / remove someone to a group without having to create an entirely new group chat * higher quality images / videos * works over wifi, without a cell signal * blue bubbles (purely aesthetic, no functional difference, but some people treat it as a status symbol) ——— I really don’t like the lock-in / network effect, but I get why it exists. It’d be nice if a common standard somehow became widespread. Note: It seems reactions are sort of working across platform in recent months? Not sure the latest on this.
    - kyriakos 3y ago
      Other than the fact that it comes pre installed on an iPhone how is it any different than other messengers?
      - dwaltrip 3y ago
        It isn’t. But defaults are quite powerful.
- mcphage 3y ago
  > I'm not going to switch back for only one reason: iMessage. [...] This is why regulators need to do something about the wireless market (operating systems, carriers, and app stores). I'm not sure why any of the regulations proposed would open up iMessage. How would regulations force Apple to develop iMessage for Android?
  - malermeister 3y ago
    If Apple is considered a Gatekeeper under the Digital Markets Act [0], they might be forced to open it up - it says this under responsibilities for gatekeepers: > allow third parties to inter-operate with the gatekeeper’s own services in certain specific situations [0] https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-markets-act-ensuring-fair-and-open-digital-markets_en https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-...
- DANmode 3y ago
  So we don't descend into flamewar: call out your favorite bug or misbehavior. Example: it takes me far longer to highlight or otherwise manipulate text than it would on Android or a computer. No, it's not a familiarity issue.
  - smarx007 3y ago
    (i)Books got an update with huge margins, making reading experience on XR untenable. Had to install FBReader to work around this.
  - toxik 3y ago
    There was a moment in time when Apple had solved this with 3D touch. It was surgical precautions. But no, 3D touch was nixed and its replacement for text editing is just insanely bad, like makes no sense at all and I can’t even predict it. I have never seen anybody use it.
    - kaba0 3y ago
      Press on space bar for a time and you can move around. 3D touch was faster indeed, but it works good enough.
      - toxik 3y ago
        This is exactly the “substitute” that I’m talking about. It doesn’t work the same. It’s really buggy and it’s impossible to use.
        kaba0 3y ago
        It’s slower to initiate but it’s absolutely false to claim it is buggy or impossible to use — it is literally the exact same behavior, it just has to be initiated in different ways.
        toxik 3y ago
        Nope, it’s not the same. I had both. The only thing that still works is moving the cursor, selection is completely broken. Will it move the left side of the selection? The right side? Nobody knows. It seems it depends how much you selected. I don’t even know actually.
- tyre 3y ago
  > I'm using a phone/OS that I absolutely loathe every day and causes me rage aneurysms, What is so bad that it's provoking this response? Not that I love everything about iOS, but that's a pretty intense reaction.
  - smt88 3y ago
    > that's a pretty intense reaction The biggest problem is notifications. On Android, you use the volume rockers and "do not disturb" mode. That's it. If you press the volume rockers down, the notifications will become quieter until they get to "vibrate only" and then finally "silent". The screen shows you this is happening, and there's always an indicator on the phone. In iOS, there are three different things that affect notifications: 1) Focus, 2) volume settings (if you have that setting turned on), and 3) the physical DnD switch. The physical switch is dangerous to use because it's easy to forget you used it. A lot of the rest of my issues are with Siri. Speech recognition is worse than Microsoft's was in the year 2005. It just doesn't work most of the time. The rest is the UI. Apple's ethos is to hide everything from the user, which they think is "simple" but is incredibly complex. There are a million hidden, inconsistent gestures that you absolutely need to know to use the phone. You just have to mess around until you find them, and then they're impossible to remember because they differ between apps. Then there are things you can only do with Siri! For example, I can delete all my alarms with Siri, but there's no way to do it using the UI.
    - r00fus 3y ago
      As a longtime iOS user who gets dozens of notifications every hour during work hours, I simply have my DND button on at all times. Actual beeps and trills all day would be amazingly annoying.
- matsemann 3y ago
  I can't fathom why all UX designers use iPhone. Half the features are hidden away and people don't know about them. There's like 11 different ways of pressing the home button or so to do different things depending on context. And then they all go and do the same craziness where they work. For instance one can feel that the UX people at Microsoft aren't using Windows as their daily driver. If they did, they would for instance not have wrecked the task bar in W11.
  - sonofhans 3y ago
    FWIW most of those UX designers work for product managers who dictate what they do. Microsoft fucked up their taskbar _institutionally_, not as as result of a couple rogue UX designers. I agree with you about the opacity of gestures in iOS. I don’t like it. I’m used to it, and find many of them to be handy shortcuts, but the lack of discoverability for new users is not good.
  - thiht 3y ago
    What home button?
- Reason077 3y ago
  > "Siri is unfathomably bad." I disagree with most of what you wrote, but this we can agree on! > "I'm not going to switch back for only one reason: iMessage" Weird. Here in the UK there is no iMessage network effect whatsoever because everyone uses WhatsApp for everything. Nobody ever sends me an iMessage unless they're American, or their my Mum who I suspect just hits the wrong app icon sometimes... Yet this doesn't stop a lot, probably a significant majority of people I know, from buying iPhones.
  - drcongo 3y ago
    I'm in the UK and use iMessage and Signal pretty much exclusively. I don't think I know anyone who actually uses WhatsApp outside of school parent groups.
- ErneX 3y ago
  What’s the iMessage effect? Is it the color of the bubbles? That seems to be a US only issue. Most of the other countries barely use SMS and use WhatsApp/Telegram/whatever instead.
  - pmontra 3y ago
    Last time I checked my plan has 100 free SMS per month (Italy.) Imagine what people are using on their phone (Apple or Android) here: iMessage/SMS or WhatsApp?
    - kyriakos 3y ago
      Not sure about Italy but here everyone and their dog have unlimited SMS unlimited data and unlimited local calls. With unlimited data there absolutely no reason to use SMS anymore, especially when everyone has WhatsApp (or similar) installed on their phones.
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  As a long time Android user, a long time ago, I wanted a tablet. All Android tablets seemed to be crap, and I got an iPad. I absolutely hated it. I hate the interface, I hate how iOS works, and I hate how after some years Apple effectively made it absolutely useless. I left it in a recycle bin, promising myself I would never buy another of their products. I used MacOS and iPhone later because those are the machine and on-call phone issued by my employer. Still absolutely hate the interface on both, and I wonder how people put up with this crap.
- kaba0 3y ago
  Honestly, this is such a self-made American problem that is not a thing in anywhere else on the world, that I really believe that no regulation is required here (even though I am usually a fan of government regulations, I can’t wait for sideloading thanks to EU). Like, the rest of the world uses either WhatsApp, Telegram or litany of other choices, the US were just rich enough to buy enough iphones that this effect somehow took hold (plus the strange addiction to SMS due to carrier plans, while we had to quickly forget about it in other places because with non-ascii characters it sucked even more so).
- andrewinardeer 3y ago
  Google is on their knees praying to any of the thousands of deities to answer their wishes and begging for Apple to implement RCS in iMessage. Do you, dear HN reader, think they will?
  - Reason077 3y ago
    Not unless they're forced to. It's the sort of thing that the EU might regulate. Except hardly anyone uses iMessage in Europe so its hard to make the claim they have dominant/monopoly market power in messaging here.
blakeashleyjr 3y ago
My wife switched from Android to IOS recently. There is some kind of polish to it that makes no-techy folks think it is a better, easier product. Nothing that differentiates them for me is convincing for her.
- nordsieck 3y ago
  My guess is hardware differences are probably part of the polish. Apple processors tend to be much more performant than their competition. But they also tend to have a lot less memory on board. I came at it as a value consumer, and I still contend that used SE iPhones are the best value across the board. But also, I don't really use apps (or my phone in general) much, so OS support and responsiveness are my only two real concerns. YMMV.
leetharris 3y ago
I think a big reason is that Google has been trying to play Apple's game and copy Apple's success, but they just aren't capable of being Apple. I think Android would be more stable of an option if it had leaned in harder to the things that made it special. It should be built around powerful capabilities, not being the cheaper iPhone alternative. How many people wanted to give "Android" a try and bought a Pixel only to deal with horrible quality control and terrible support? If the phone was half price and allowed you to do crazy things not possible on iOS maybe people would stay. But right now, people just see it as being worse on the core things most people care about: calls, messaging (especially iMessage), social media, camera, and support... and it's about the same price.
- sho_hn 3y ago
  It's interesting how Windows is kind of following the direction you advocate. They're also not capable of "being Apple", and instead they're more heavily leaning into their "messy, jack of all trades" nature as a selling point with efforts like WSL and Android apps.
- legitster 3y ago
  Androids ditching headphone jacks boggle my mind. It was clearly a ploy by Apple to push their expensive accessory upgrades. Google et al following suit just to push their own inferior accessories was so short-sighted.
nickthegreek 3y ago
So many used iPhones in the used market now, apple can increase market share without even directly selling to a new customer.
DicIfTEx 3y ago
Unfortunately I killed my previous phone, which was capable of running /e/OS, in an area of the world where replacement options are limited. As a result, I've had to experience first-hand just how awful stock Android can be, and how meaningless a term like 'stock Android' is when different makes can provide wildly different experiences (i.e., Samsung phones are the worst-in-class for battery-saving 'innovations' that break several features and apps that rely on them [0]). The moment I'm able to I'll be back on /e/OS, but I can fully understand the appeal for the less technically-inclined to just stick with (or swap to) the nice, uniform, slick iOS. [0] https://dontkillmyapp.com/ https://dontkillmyapp.com/
spaceman_2020 3y ago
My wife switched literally yesterday. She didn’t want to, but the Android smartphone landscape has a paradoxical lack of options. Her go-to brand was OnePlus, but OnePlus has been slacking the last couple of iterations. Other brands with high end phones were almost as expensive as the iPhone (Samsung) or targeting performance users. She also got a lot of discounts on her iPhone 14 and managed to get it for under $600 - nearly the same price as a new OnePlus flagship.
gjsman-1000 3y ago
I think that Android has burned too many users in weird ways. For example, I recently convinced my father to switch to iPhone after 4 years of Android. Why? The first phone he got was a Galaxy S7 (Snapdragon). After just a year it was extremely slow, crashing all the time, overheating... which turned out to actually be a very, very common problem with the processor (Snapdragon 820). It was Qualcomm's first stab at a 64-bit processor and it showed. Well... try, try again. Galaxy Note 9. After a year, super slow at everything, even though all he does is browse internet and check emails. Even the Microsoft Outlook app would crash loading Inbox 25% of the time with no other apps open. Battery replacement and factory reset didn't help at all. A few months after that, it started dropping Verizon phone calls at random. Turns out that was another flaw widely reported on their forums, specifically on Verizon, with a botched software update installation for the modem, that if you were unfortunate enough to install, could not be removed or repaired or factory reset. And, of course, Samsung wasn't pushing any updates to fix it. Kind of a really big deal when you are a small business owner. So iPhone 13 he went. A year and a half later and it doesn't drop calls.
- celsoazevedo 3y ago
  > (Snapdragon 820). It was Qualcomm's first stab at a 64-bit processor and it showed. The 820 was the second gen of 64-bit SoCs. The one with heating and efficiency issues was the Snapdragon 810 (and the slower 808). I moved from a OnePlus 2 with the 810 to the OnePlus 3 with the 820 and it was a day/night difference.
- rib3ye 3y ago
  The last part is the big one - the manufacture fragmentation delivers an incoherent user experience. Every year Apple delivers a major iOS release that makes it "feel" like a new phone (I won't even debate that the improvements are now incremental), but the product marketing is most pleasing! When you buy an Android product, you just feel used and abused. New cool Android version came out? Fuck you, buy a new phone.
  - celsoazevedo 3y ago
    > When you buy an Android product, you just feel used and abused. New cool Android version came out? Fuck you, buy a new phone. A new Samsung flagship gives you 4 years of new Android versions and an extra year of security updates. A Google Pixel is 3 major updates + 2 of security updates.
guardiangod 3y ago
I used to work for Blackberry, and have been using Android since Samsung Galaxy S3 all the way to Pixel 7. For the first time, I am seriously considering switching to an iPhone. My parents used iphone since the 3G, so I am very familiar with them. I have always hope that Android would catch up with iPhone in most metrics, but lately I feel Android is falling further and further behind, paradoxically as Android gains more and more features.. If iPhone does not exist, Android would be seen as perfectly fine. But iPhone does exist, and all the shortcomings in Android sticks out uncomfortably when comparing to iPhone. 1. Crap-tastic stability when Pixel6/Android 12 was released. I have not used a more buggy phone that crashed every week, or crash in the middle of a call, or a long list of bugs that I encountered during my usage. The OS eventually got better after a year of release, but that meant that I had to deal with the bugs for a year straight. 2. Things that work 80% as well as iPhone, but never exceed them. For example the fingerprint reader remains inaccurate for my right thumb, but not for my other fingers. Other issues include performance issues with videos (this got a lot better in the last 6 months), or batter life issues. 3. Everything is disjointed. To view photos, there is a File app, but then there's an Google Photo app. Somehow Favourites are not shared between the 2 apps.
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  I've been using OnePlus for 5 years (two different phones, recently switched 6T to Nord2). Never had any problems with stability, fingerprint scanner is stellar, and there are multiple apps for... Basically whatever. Just pick your favorite flavor. And they have 1 feature that kills the iPhone for me. They are not tied to obsolescence. Once OnePlus drops support, I can install DivestOS or LineageOS and the phone keeps working and being up-to-date. I installed DivestOS on my old 6T and it became my backup phone (normally I take it with me when I go hiking or to the beach, just to not have my main device with me in case there's an unfortunate accident). Apple has a tendency to turn old devices into paperweight after a few years.
web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
Google is trying (and failing) to make Android and Google Play or whatever they call it to be more and more like Apple. If I wanted an Apple phone I'd just buy Apple. Which is what I ended up doing. Bought an iPhone 11 ~2 years ago, still going strong on the latest iOS version and I don't really have any reason to buy a new one soon. Fantastic device.
bilal4hmed 3y ago
This is interesting, so as more users in the US are iOS based, then does it matter if Apple becomes a monopoly here. The competition cant keep up and is so far behind, so why punish Apple for success?
Gualdrapo 3y ago
Worth noting that this report is based on data from the USA, which explains a lot.
- bilal4hmed 3y ago
  happening in other places too like India, which has historically been an Android stronghold https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/apple-reports-strong-growth-in-india-11675450234448.html https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/apple-reports-strong...
Eji1700 3y ago
I used iphones until about the 10 era, and my brother has always been in the android ecosystem. Personally, one of the only things I care about is having a smaller phone. I do not want a brick in my pocket. I do not care about screen size. I switched around the 10 because at the time I didn't like the offerings (too big, too expensive), and got a motorolla. It was....ok? Widgets were great (although now on iphone), but there were a lot of issues. Not that there aren't with iphone, but it mostly felt like I was trading pretty evenly for good/bad. The phone lasted a few years, but with major call quality issues for the last 2 that I only stuck out because of the hellscape that is the phone market. When shopping for a new one, once again a smaller phone was my only priority, so I got an SE, because I couldn't find a half decent android that wasn't huge.
- sonofhans 3y ago
  I’ve been buying the Mini line for my partner, and they’re remarkably good. Very small and light, but otherwise new top-line hardware. They’re not going to make more, it seems, since they don’t sell well.
  - gandalfgreybeer 3y ago
    I usually upgrade every 2 years (due to mobile retention plan) and just get one from the latest line. This year was the first year I got an older model since I really like the size of the mini. Will likely not get a bigger phone in the future unless it has a killer feature or phones the same size as the mini (hopefully it becomes the SE) is no longer supported
- pkulak 3y ago
  I've got the 13-mini, which, I guess, is the last one. So, I feel like I've got a good 3-5 years before I need to worry about anything.
danielscrubs 3y ago
Who is the chief product owner of Android?
sonofhans 3y ago
I’m a happy user of multiple Apple product, but I wish they had serious competition in the mobile OS space. Apple is remarkable that they strive for constant improvements anyway, even without good competition, but I’d rather we had multiple good vendors for an important thing, rather than one. I’m not flaming Google or Android. By “competition” I mean “a mobile OS vendor who cares primarily about their users, and acts in their benefit.” Today mobile vendors pick Android because it allows them to cheaply treat their users like chattel. Those vendors act in predictable old ways — attempting lock-in; adding half-assed features behind subscriptions gates; shoddy cloud services which will be abandoned in 18 months; dark patterns to trick people further into their channels; difficult, delayed, or non-existent OS and security updates. I wish Microsoft had been more on-the-ball. Their phones were roadkill, from a market standpoint, but at least they were trying. Some of their ideas and their execution were quite good. Say what you will about their enterprise focus, at least they don’t institutionally treat users like krill, the way Google does. And the way Android affords mobile vendors to.
- bilal4hmed 3y ago
  we kinda did in the beginning with Nokia, Blackberry, Palm, Microsoft with maybe Nokia and Palm having the most potential. Sadly those companies got complacent and the devs didnt want to support multiple platforms and we are here today with 2 platforms.
  - sonofhans 3y ago
    Yeah, funny, they didn’t feel like they were being complacent. I remember reading interviews at the time, with some of those vendors touting their “speed of innovation.” They all felt that way until Apple showed them how it’s really done. Only a very few global organizations even have the capacity to dream about designing/building/shipping hardware on the cadence and scale that Apple does. I can’t think of a single vendor that succeeds at it for anything non-trivial.
    - bilal4hmed 3y ago
      At that point I would say Nokia had that sort of prowess but their hubris overtook every thing First it was resistive touch screens Then it was symbian not adapted for touch , then meego not merging with symbian They just got lost in their own thoughts
globular-toast 3y ago
Anti-competitive business practices work. That's why they used to be illegal.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
IMO this is a consolidation story. iPhone had the majority share in the US, so due to network effects it's not surprising that it's consolidating in the US. I'd be more interested in the numbers for Europe or other locations where Android & WhatsApp have the majority share. Are they consolidating or switching?
- pmontra 3y ago
  https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe
jchw 3y ago
At the moment, I am very seriously considering switching to not having a smartphone at all. I'm not happy with any of the options.
- omoikane 3y ago
  I am still using a feature phone. The battery life is great, the feel of physical buttons is great, and the laughs I get from my friends whenever I pull it out of my pocket is especially great. They act as if they are looking at a living dinosaur. It goes well with my pocket watch. The downside is that increasing number of services assume that you have a smart phone. Some of the restaurants no longer have physical menus, for example.
  - jchw 3y ago
    You know, I'm not too worried about it. It's not like I am against portable computers after all, and I'm more than happy to get funny looks for lugging a UMPC around if it's necessary to get the job done. It's just, the USB C port on my Pixel 6 which is less than a year old is already worn out and I'm tired of switching Hardware Overlays off so that it doesn't devolve into a flickery mess every few hours. I don't like the amount of things that I don't get a choice regarding, and in general, the lack of friction between me and wasting time is not really that great whereas if I really needed to do something like check my account balances the slight impediment of needing to pull out a UMPC or call a bank is not really a serious issue for me. I have been back and forth between iPhone and Android. My last iPhone miraculously died out of nowhere, breaking so badly that even recovery mode was in a boot loop, and the software was even more depressing. At this point, I'll just be the fucking weird guy with a Linux UMPC. In other words, I'm happy to take your recommendations for dumb phones. :)
    - omoikane 3y ago
      > recommendations for dumb phones Last time I walked into my telcom store and asked for a dumb phone, they had exactly one model available, and that's the one I got. https://photos.app.goo.gl/JHXCgaqPSXARvGbw6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/JHXCgaqPSXARvGbw6 It's an Alcatel 4051S, and runs some variant of Android.
alphabettsy 3y ago
My only two complaints with iOS at this point are that the Files app and filesystem access is much better than what existed before, but still not quite enough and that I should be able to side-load applications that are not allowed by the App Store and have things like a Syncthing client that runs in the background without hacks using location as many similar apps do today. Or they could just fix that since it’s the only thing that currently comes to mind. Android at the OS level is great on the Pixel 6 I have, but many of the apps aren’t up to par. This has been my most continuous complaint. Apps like Spotify and Netflix usually have quality and feature parity, but many apps by independent developers do not. Many of the Android utility apps for things like FTP look like they were made for Android 4 “Ice Cream Sandwich” and never updated. I suspect this is because iOS users are more willing to pay for apps and so that’s where independent developers focus their efforts? For now iPhone is still my daily driver. The UX and integration across products is a big reason why for me.
ErneX 3y ago
Google is not doing a great job with the Pixel imo. With some models they also decided to not release them in some countries for whatever reason. I had a Pixel 3A that did not age well and went back to iPhone.
- kyriakos 3y ago
  Google either doesn't want to compete with android OEMs or doesn't have the capacity to manufacture devices at scale. There is no other explanation, their phones are decent, cheap in comparison to similar models and have good software with very little bloat.
legitster 3y ago
I'm not a huge fan of Apple products, but honestly there is no point fighting it anymore. Cheap androids are still buggy and terrible and even in 2023 lack basic features like NFC. The terrible state of support and updates in the Android world means there is next to no used value for Android flagships. iPhones command stupid prices, but at least they retain their value.
brundolf 3y ago
Anecdotally: I know multiple people who have switched in the last few years. At this point most of the holdouts I know personally are people who are just used to Android and don't want to learn something new (based on talking with them)
de_dave 3y ago
I wonder what the equivalent data are for iPhone to Android switchers. It could also be similarly high, suggesting consumers are switching in higher numbers both ways?

26 points by retskrad 3y ago

I switched to iOS recently. It is worse in every conceivable way. It's much buggier, harder to use (lots of hidden UI and surprising inconsistencies), and less flexible. I can't change defaults, and Siri is unfathomably bad. I'm not going to switch back for only one reason: iMessage. I'm using a phone/OS that I absolutely loathe every day and causes me rage aneurysms, but the iMessage network effect is too strong for me to switch back. This is why regulators need to do something about the wireless market (operating systems, carriers, and app stores). These companies don't have to compete the way they should.

lgas 3y ago
What do you get out of iMessage and its network effect besides blue text instead of green?
- DrBenCarson 3y ago
  In the US? Friends. You will literally lose out on social activities bc of SMS.
  - lgas 3y ago
    I'm in the US and have an iPhone but as I mentioned in another reply, I have friends with android and have never noticed any impediments to texting them... or them me? Is this a high school thing or are you talking about adults?
    - DrBenCarson 3y ago
      Adults will comb group texts for the number preventing them from sending a photo at usable resolution and delete them.
      - DANmode 3y ago
        Adults also send emails to 45 clear-text To: addresses, or Reply All thousands of people. Is this a good heuristic for acceptable behavior?
        DrBenCarson 3y ago
        I’m not making a judgement, just an observation. Ultimately in this case they’re moving from cleartext to an E2EE platform (iMessage) so maybe you’d be happier in this case?
    - MAGZine 3y ago
      I, as an adult, have been left out of many many group texts (and thus social activities) because they didn't want to make the convo green. Queue the onslaught of empathetic "get better friends lol" -- except I've seen this behaviour across so many social circles that even if it was a viable suggestion, there's no certainty the next group would be any better.
      - DANmode 3y ago
        I feel like I would move if I couldn't find any social circle aside from rabid blue-bubblers.
        DrBenCarson 3y ago
        You would emigrate from the US?
        DANmode 3y ago
        You incorrectly believe your experience is representative of all of the vastly differing experiences of those in the US. The phenomenon you're commenting on/describing happens often, perhaps is even common. But it is not ubiquitous.
    - devnulll 3y ago
      There are any number family group chats that leave my sister out of things. She's the only Android user out of about 20 people. If she's on the threads then pictures, videos, and reactions are all broken. This is 100% deliberate by Apple, but the bias against Android users is real.
      - DANmode 3y ago
        > but the bias against Android users is real. From people who don't know it's an intentional limitation by Apple. aka, mostly nontechnical people.
      - Mumps 3y ago
        Genuinely asking: your family is not willing to use WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Teams, Discord, ..., to have your sister be included?
        DANmode 3y ago
        "Why should they have to install an extra app just because she wants to be different?" Experiencing this sort of behavior keeps me from believing I am an understanding person.
  - George83728 3y ago
    I think I'm better off without such vapid people as friends. None of my friends with iphones have ever complained about me having an android, nor can I even imagine them doing something like that. Bullying somebody for their consumer choices is far beyond the pale. You may as well say that not owning a BMW will lose you potential friends because some BMW drivers will sneer at you. Maybe that's true, but who's loss is that really?
    - DrBenCarson 3y ago
      It’s not explicit. It’s the added friction that places you a bit outside the “inner circle.” Can’t FaceTime? Oh I’ll call you later. Can’t watch the video I sent to the group? I’ll show you later. Little things add up. Now you’re missing inside jokes, impromptu plans, etc.
      - lapetitejort 3y ago
        I took a picture of a car driving away from a hit and run. The victim asked for the picture, but because I couldn't airdrop it, he'd rather just write down the license plate. I offered to text or email but he refused. A small amount of friction caused him to miss out on potential evidence.
        George83728 3y ago
        > I offered to text or email So because you weren't an asshole, you were willing to adapt to his use of android. Doesn't that illustrate my point? People who aren't assholes are willing to be flexible. If you had insisted on airdrop or nothing, that would be different. > but he refused It sounds like he didn't think the picture was important and only wanted the license plate number. This isn't an android/iphone matter at all.
        lapetitejort 3y ago
        My inadvertent lack of detail leads to an interesting misunderstanding. I am the android user. So in the iPhone user's case, it was airdrop or nothing. The picture was important enough to ask for but not important enough to spend an extra thirty seconds dictating a email address. The picture has more detail than just the license plate. It also had the car make, model, condition, road, position, and metadata. However, I'm not sure the legality (chain of custody, etc) of someone's hastily shot picture of a car driving when dealing with a hit-and-run. Better to have and not need though.
- nickthegreek 3y ago
  happy acquaintances that are more likely to include you in social activities.
  - lgas 3y ago
    Really? I have an iphone but I have friends with android and have never noticed any impediments to texting them... or them me?
    - nickthegreek 3y ago
      Do you guys send media? Group texts with younger cohorts can be filled with gifs, videos, live images, and just regular pics. All of which look like trash when using MMS. This greatly lowers the quality and value of the group chat. People might then remake a group chat without the android user to send the media, and then people just start talking in that group chat and the other dies. While it might not affect you personally, do know that other people behave this way.
- goosedragons 3y ago
  Better group chats, higher quality images and videos, the reaction instead of "Loved an image" or whatever.
- dwaltrip 3y ago
  iMessage features not present in MMS: * Reactions * Threaded replies (1 level deep) * You can name group chats and give them a custom image / icon (makes it easier find a group in the list). The name and image is applied for everyone in the group, making it a social thing * You can add / remove someone to a group without having to create an entirely new group chat * higher quality images / videos * works over wifi, without a cell signal * blue bubbles (purely aesthetic, no functional difference, but some people treat it as a status symbol) ——— I really don’t like the lock-in / network effect, but I get why it exists. It’d be nice if a common standard somehow became widespread. Note: It seems reactions are sort of working across platform in recent months? Not sure the latest on this.
  - kyriakos 3y ago
    Other than the fact that it comes pre installed on an iPhone how is it any different than other messengers?
    - dwaltrip 3y ago
      It isn’t. But defaults are quite powerful.
mcphage 3y ago
> I'm not going to switch back for only one reason: iMessage. [...] This is why regulators need to do something about the wireless market (operating systems, carriers, and app stores). I'm not sure why any of the regulations proposed would open up iMessage. How would regulations force Apple to develop iMessage for Android?
- malermeister 3y ago
  If Apple is considered a Gatekeeper under the Digital Markets Act [0], they might be forced to open it up - it says this under responsibilities for gatekeepers: > allow third parties to inter-operate with the gatekeeper’s own services in certain specific situations [0] https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-markets-act-ensuring-fair-and-open-digital-markets_en https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-...
DANmode 3y ago
So we don't descend into flamewar: call out your favorite bug or misbehavior. Example: it takes me far longer to highlight or otherwise manipulate text than it would on Android or a computer. No, it's not a familiarity issue.
- smarx007 3y ago
  (i)Books got an update with huge margins, making reading experience on XR untenable. Had to install FBReader to work around this.
- toxik 3y ago
  There was a moment in time when Apple had solved this with 3D touch. It was surgical precautions. But no, 3D touch was nixed and its replacement for text editing is just insanely bad, like makes no sense at all and I can’t even predict it. I have never seen anybody use it.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    Press on space bar for a time and you can move around. 3D touch was faster indeed, but it works good enough.
    - toxik 3y ago
      This is exactly the “substitute” that I’m talking about. It doesn’t work the same. It’s really buggy and it’s impossible to use.
      - kaba0 3y ago
        It’s slower to initiate but it’s absolutely false to claim it is buggy or impossible to use — it is literally the exact same behavior, it just has to be initiated in different ways.
        toxik 3y ago
        Nope, it’s not the same. I had both. The only thing that still works is moving the cursor, selection is completely broken. Will it move the left side of the selection? The right side? Nobody knows. It seems it depends how much you selected. I don’t even know actually.
tyre 3y ago
> I'm using a phone/OS that I absolutely loathe every day and causes me rage aneurysms, What is so bad that it's provoking this response? Not that I love everything about iOS, but that's a pretty intense reaction.
- smt88 3y ago
  > that's a pretty intense reaction The biggest problem is notifications. On Android, you use the volume rockers and "do not disturb" mode. That's it. If you press the volume rockers down, the notifications will become quieter until they get to "vibrate only" and then finally "silent". The screen shows you this is happening, and there's always an indicator on the phone. In iOS, there are three different things that affect notifications: 1) Focus, 2) volume settings (if you have that setting turned on), and 3) the physical DnD switch. The physical switch is dangerous to use because it's easy to forget you used it. A lot of the rest of my issues are with Siri. Speech recognition is worse than Microsoft's was in the year 2005. It just doesn't work most of the time. The rest is the UI. Apple's ethos is to hide everything from the user, which they think is "simple" but is incredibly complex. There are a million hidden, inconsistent gestures that you absolutely need to know to use the phone. You just have to mess around until you find them, and then they're impossible to remember because they differ between apps. Then there are things you can only do with Siri! For example, I can delete all my alarms with Siri, but there's no way to do it using the UI.
  - r00fus 3y ago
    As a longtime iOS user who gets dozens of notifications every hour during work hours, I simply have my DND button on at all times. Actual beeps and trills all day would be amazingly annoying.
matsemann 3y ago
I can't fathom why all UX designers use iPhone. Half the features are hidden away and people don't know about them. There's like 11 different ways of pressing the home button or so to do different things depending on context. And then they all go and do the same craziness where they work. For instance one can feel that the UX people at Microsoft aren't using Windows as their daily driver. If they did, they would for instance not have wrecked the task bar in W11.
- sonofhans 3y ago
  FWIW most of those UX designers work for product managers who dictate what they do. Microsoft fucked up their taskbar _institutionally_, not as as result of a couple rogue UX designers. I agree with you about the opacity of gestures in iOS. I don’t like it. I’m used to it, and find many of them to be handy shortcuts, but the lack of discoverability for new users is not good.
- thiht 3y ago
  What home button?
Reason077 3y ago
> "Siri is unfathomably bad." I disagree with most of what you wrote, but this we can agree on! > "I'm not going to switch back for only one reason: iMessage" Weird. Here in the UK there is no iMessage network effect whatsoever because everyone uses WhatsApp for everything. Nobody ever sends me an iMessage unless they're American, or their my Mum who I suspect just hits the wrong app icon sometimes... Yet this doesn't stop a lot, probably a significant majority of people I know, from buying iPhones.
- drcongo 3y ago
  I'm in the UK and use iMessage and Signal pretty much exclusively. I don't think I know anyone who actually uses WhatsApp outside of school parent groups.
ErneX 3y ago
What’s the iMessage effect? Is it the color of the bubbles? That seems to be a US only issue. Most of the other countries barely use SMS and use WhatsApp/Telegram/whatever instead.
- pmontra 3y ago
  Last time I checked my plan has 100 free SMS per month (Italy.) Imagine what people are using on their phone (Apple or Android) here: iMessage/SMS or WhatsApp?
  - kyriakos 3y ago
    Not sure about Italy but here everyone and their dog have unlimited SMS unlimited data and unlimited local calls. With unlimited data there absolutely no reason to use SMS anymore, especially when everyone has WhatsApp (or similar) installed on their phones.
surgical_fire 3y ago
As a long time Android user, a long time ago, I wanted a tablet. All Android tablets seemed to be crap, and I got an iPad. I absolutely hated it. I hate the interface, I hate how iOS works, and I hate how after some years Apple effectively made it absolutely useless. I left it in a recycle bin, promising myself I would never buy another of their products. I used MacOS and iPhone later because those are the machine and on-call phone issued by my employer. Still absolutely hate the interface on both, and I wonder how people put up with this crap.
kaba0 3y ago
Honestly, this is such a self-made American problem that is not a thing in anywhere else on the world, that I really believe that no regulation is required here (even though I am usually a fan of government regulations, I can’t wait for sideloading thanks to EU). Like, the rest of the world uses either WhatsApp, Telegram or litany of other choices, the US were just rich enough to buy enough iphones that this effect somehow took hold (plus the strange addiction to SMS due to carrier plans, while we had to quickly forget about it in other places because with non-ascii characters it sucked even more so).
andrewinardeer 3y ago
Google is on their knees praying to any of the thousands of deities to answer their wishes and begging for Apple to implement RCS in iMessage. Do you, dear HN reader, think they will?
- Reason077 3y ago
  Not unless they're forced to. It's the sort of thing that the EU might regulate. Except hardly anyone uses iMessage in Europe so its hard to make the claim they have dominant/monopoly market power in messaging here.

blakeashleyjr 3y ago

My wife switched from Android to IOS recently. There is some kind of polish to it that makes no-techy folks think it is a better, easier product. Nothing that differentiates them for me is convincing for her.

nordsieck 3y ago
My guess is hardware differences are probably part of the polish. Apple processors tend to be much more performant than their competition. But they also tend to have a lot less memory on board. I came at it as a value consumer, and I still contend that used SE iPhones are the best value across the board. But also, I don't really use apps (or my phone in general) much, so OS support and responsiveness are my only two real concerns. YMMV.

leetharris 3y ago

I think a big reason is that Google has been trying to play Apple's game and copy Apple's success, but they just aren't capable of being Apple. I think Android would be more stable of an option if it had leaned in harder to the things that made it special. It should be built around powerful capabilities, not being the cheaper iPhone alternative. How many people wanted to give "Android" a try and bought a Pixel only to deal with horrible quality control and terrible support? If the phone was half price and allowed you to do crazy things not possible on iOS maybe people would stay. But right now, people just see it as being worse on the core things most people care about: calls, messaging (especially iMessage), social media, camera, and support... and it's about the same price.

sho_hn 3y ago
It's interesting how Windows is kind of following the direction you advocate. They're also not capable of "being Apple", and instead they're more heavily leaning into their "messy, jack of all trades" nature as a selling point with efforts like WSL and Android apps.
legitster 3y ago
Androids ditching headphone jacks boggle my mind. It was clearly a ploy by Apple to push their expensive accessory upgrades. Google et al following suit just to push their own inferior accessories was so short-sighted.

nickthegreek 3y ago

So many used iPhones in the used market now, apple can increase market share without even directly selling to a new customer.

DicIfTEx 3y ago

Unfortunately I killed my previous phone, which was capable of running /e/OS, in an area of the world where replacement options are limited. As a result, I've had to experience first-hand just how awful stock Android can be, and how meaningless a term like 'stock Android' is when different makes can provide wildly different experiences (i.e., Samsung phones are the worst-in-class for battery-saving 'innovations' that break several features and apps that rely on them [0]). The moment I'm able to I'll be back on /e/OS, but I can fully understand the appeal for the less technically-inclined to just stick with (or swap to) the nice, uniform, slick iOS. [0] https://dontkillmyapp.com/ https://dontkillmyapp.com/

spaceman_2020 3y ago

My wife switched literally yesterday. She didn’t want to, but the Android smartphone landscape has a paradoxical lack of options. Her go-to brand was OnePlus, but OnePlus has been slacking the last couple of iterations. Other brands with high end phones were almost as expensive as the iPhone (Samsung) or targeting performance users. She also got a lot of discounts on her iPhone 14 and managed to get it for under $600 - nearly the same price as a new OnePlus flagship.

gjsman-1000 3y ago

I think that Android has burned too many users in weird ways. For example, I recently convinced my father to switch to iPhone after 4 years of Android. Why? The first phone he got was a Galaxy S7 (Snapdragon). After just a year it was extremely slow, crashing all the time, overheating... which turned out to actually be a very, very common problem with the processor (Snapdragon 820). It was Qualcomm's first stab at a 64-bit processor and it showed. Well... try, try again. Galaxy Note 9. After a year, super slow at everything, even though all he does is browse internet and check emails. Even the Microsoft Outlook app would crash loading Inbox 25% of the time with no other apps open. Battery replacement and factory reset didn't help at all. A few months after that, it started dropping Verizon phone calls at random. Turns out that was another flaw widely reported on their forums, specifically on Verizon, with a botched software update installation for the modem, that if you were unfortunate enough to install, could not be removed or repaired or factory reset. And, of course, Samsung wasn't pushing any updates to fix it. Kind of a really big deal when you are a small business owner. So iPhone 13 he went. A year and a half later and it doesn't drop calls.

celsoazevedo 3y ago
> (Snapdragon 820). It was Qualcomm's first stab at a 64-bit processor and it showed. The 820 was the second gen of 64-bit SoCs. The one with heating and efficiency issues was the Snapdragon 810 (and the slower 808). I moved from a OnePlus 2 with the 810 to the OnePlus 3 with the 820 and it was a day/night difference.
rib3ye 3y ago
The last part is the big one - the manufacture fragmentation delivers an incoherent user experience. Every year Apple delivers a major iOS release that makes it "feel" like a new phone (I won't even debate that the improvements are now incremental), but the product marketing is most pleasing! When you buy an Android product, you just feel used and abused. New cool Android version came out? Fuck you, buy a new phone.
- celsoazevedo 3y ago
  > When you buy an Android product, you just feel used and abused. New cool Android version came out? Fuck you, buy a new phone. A new Samsung flagship gives you 4 years of new Android versions and an extra year of security updates. A Google Pixel is 3 major updates + 2 of security updates.

guardiangod 3y ago

I used to work for Blackberry, and have been using Android since Samsung Galaxy S3 all the way to Pixel 7. For the first time, I am seriously considering switching to an iPhone. My parents used iphone since the 3G, so I am very familiar with them. I have always hope that Android would catch up with iPhone in most metrics, but lately I feel Android is falling further and further behind, paradoxically as Android gains more and more features.. If iPhone does not exist, Android would be seen as perfectly fine. But iPhone does exist, and all the shortcomings in Android sticks out uncomfortably when comparing to iPhone. 1. Crap-tastic stability when Pixel6/Android 12 was released. I have not used a more buggy phone that crashed every week, or crash in the middle of a call, or a long list of bugs that I encountered during my usage. The OS eventually got better after a year of release, but that meant that I had to deal with the bugs for a year straight. 2. Things that work 80% as well as iPhone, but never exceed them. For example the fingerprint reader remains inaccurate for my right thumb, but not for my other fingers. Other issues include performance issues with videos (this got a lot better in the last 6 months), or batter life issues. 3. Everything is disjointed. To view photos, there is a File app, but then there's an Google Photo app. Somehow Favourites are not shared between the 2 apps.

surgical_fire 3y ago
I've been using OnePlus for 5 years (two different phones, recently switched 6T to Nord2). Never had any problems with stability, fingerprint scanner is stellar, and there are multiple apps for... Basically whatever. Just pick your favorite flavor. And they have 1 feature that kills the iPhone for me. They are not tied to obsolescence. Once OnePlus drops support, I can install DivestOS or LineageOS and the phone keeps working and being up-to-date. I installed DivestOS on my old 6T and it became my backup phone (normally I take it with me when I go hiking or to the beach, just to not have my main device with me in case there's an unfortunate accident). Apple has a tendency to turn old devices into paperweight after a few years.

web3-is-a-scam 3y ago

Google is trying (and failing) to make Android and Google Play or whatever they call it to be more and more like Apple. If I wanted an Apple phone I'd just buy Apple. Which is what I ended up doing. Bought an iPhone 11 ~2 years ago, still going strong on the latest iOS version and I don't really have any reason to buy a new one soon. Fantastic device.

bilal4hmed 3y ago

This is interesting, so as more users in the US are iOS based, then does it matter if Apple becomes a monopoly here. The competition cant keep up and is so far behind, so why punish Apple for success?

Gualdrapo 3y ago

Worth noting that this report is based on data from the USA, which explains a lot.

bilal4hmed 3y ago
happening in other places too like India, which has historically been an Android stronghold https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/apple-reports-strong-growth-in-india-11675450234448.html https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/apple-reports-strong...

Eji1700 3y ago

I used iphones until about the 10 era, and my brother has always been in the android ecosystem. Personally, one of the only things I care about is having a smaller phone. I do not want a brick in my pocket. I do not care about screen size. I switched around the 10 because at the time I didn't like the offerings (too big, too expensive), and got a motorolla. It was....ok? Widgets were great (although now on iphone), but there were a lot of issues. Not that there aren't with iphone, but it mostly felt like I was trading pretty evenly for good/bad. The phone lasted a few years, but with major call quality issues for the last 2 that I only stuck out because of the hellscape that is the phone market. When shopping for a new one, once again a smaller phone was my only priority, so I got an SE, because I couldn't find a half decent android that wasn't huge.

sonofhans 3y ago
I’ve been buying the Mini line for my partner, and they’re remarkably good. Very small and light, but otherwise new top-line hardware. They’re not going to make more, it seems, since they don’t sell well.
- gandalfgreybeer 3y ago
  I usually upgrade every 2 years (due to mobile retention plan) and just get one from the latest line. This year was the first year I got an older model since I really like the size of the mini. Will likely not get a bigger phone in the future unless it has a killer feature or phones the same size as the mini (hopefully it becomes the SE) is no longer supported
pkulak 3y ago
I've got the 13-mini, which, I guess, is the last one. So, I feel like I've got a good 3-5 years before I need to worry about anything.

danielscrubs 3y ago

Who is the chief product owner of Android?

sonofhans 3y ago

I’m a happy user of multiple Apple product, but I wish they had serious competition in the mobile OS space. Apple is remarkable that they strive for constant improvements anyway, even without good competition, but I’d rather we had multiple good vendors for an important thing, rather than one. I’m not flaming Google or Android. By “competition” I mean “a mobile OS vendor who cares primarily about their users, and acts in their benefit.” Today mobile vendors pick Android because it allows them to cheaply treat their users like chattel. Those vendors act in predictable old ways — attempting lock-in; adding half-assed features behind subscriptions gates; shoddy cloud services which will be abandoned in 18 months; dark patterns to trick people further into their channels; difficult, delayed, or non-existent OS and security updates. I wish Microsoft had been more on-the-ball. Their phones were roadkill, from a market standpoint, but at least they were trying. Some of their ideas and their execution were quite good. Say what you will about their enterprise focus, at least they don’t institutionally treat users like krill, the way Google does. And the way Android affords mobile vendors to.

bilal4hmed 3y ago
we kinda did in the beginning with Nokia, Blackberry, Palm, Microsoft with maybe Nokia and Palm having the most potential. Sadly those companies got complacent and the devs didnt want to support multiple platforms and we are here today with 2 platforms.
- sonofhans 3y ago
  Yeah, funny, they didn’t feel like they were being complacent. I remember reading interviews at the time, with some of those vendors touting their “speed of innovation.” They all felt that way until Apple showed them how it’s really done. Only a very few global organizations even have the capacity to dream about designing/building/shipping hardware on the cadence and scale that Apple does. I can’t think of a single vendor that succeeds at it for anything non-trivial.
  - bilal4hmed 3y ago
    At that point I would say Nokia had that sort of prowess but their hubris overtook every thing First it was resistive touch screens Then it was symbian not adapted for touch , then meego not merging with symbian They just got lost in their own thoughts

globular-toast 3y ago

Anti-competitive business practices work. That's why they used to be illegal.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

IMO this is a consolidation story. iPhone had the majority share in the US, so due to network effects it's not surprising that it's consolidating in the US. I'd be more interested in the numbers for Europe or other locations where Android & WhatsApp have the majority share. Are they consolidating or switching?

pmontra 3y ago
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe

jchw 3y ago

At the moment, I am very seriously considering switching to not having a smartphone at all. I'm not happy with any of the options.

omoikane 3y ago
I am still using a feature phone. The battery life is great, the feel of physical buttons is great, and the laughs I get from my friends whenever I pull it out of my pocket is especially great. They act as if they are looking at a living dinosaur. It goes well with my pocket watch. The downside is that increasing number of services assume that you have a smart phone. Some of the restaurants no longer have physical menus, for example.
- jchw 3y ago
  You know, I'm not too worried about it. It's not like I am against portable computers after all, and I'm more than happy to get funny looks for lugging a UMPC around if it's necessary to get the job done. It's just, the USB C port on my Pixel 6 which is less than a year old is already worn out and I'm tired of switching Hardware Overlays off so that it doesn't devolve into a flickery mess every few hours. I don't like the amount of things that I don't get a choice regarding, and in general, the lack of friction between me and wasting time is not really that great whereas if I really needed to do something like check my account balances the slight impediment of needing to pull out a UMPC or call a bank is not really a serious issue for me. I have been back and forth between iPhone and Android. My last iPhone miraculously died out of nowhere, breaking so badly that even recovery mode was in a boot loop, and the software was even more depressing. At this point, I'll just be the fucking weird guy with a Linux UMPC. In other words, I'm happy to take your recommendations for dumb phones. :)
  - omoikane 3y ago
    > recommendations for dumb phones Last time I walked into my telcom store and asked for a dumb phone, they had exactly one model available, and that's the one I got. https://photos.app.goo.gl/JHXCgaqPSXARvGbw6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/JHXCgaqPSXARvGbw6 It's an Alcatel 4051S, and runs some variant of Android.

alphabettsy 3y ago

My only two complaints with iOS at this point are that the Files app and filesystem access is much better than what existed before, but still not quite enough and that I should be able to side-load applications that are not allowed by the App Store and have things like a Syncthing client that runs in the background without hacks using location as many similar apps do today. Or they could just fix that since it’s the only thing that currently comes to mind. Android at the OS level is great on the Pixel 6 I have, but many of the apps aren’t up to par. This has been my most continuous complaint. Apps like Spotify and Netflix usually have quality and feature parity, but many apps by independent developers do not. Many of the Android utility apps for things like FTP look like they were made for Android 4 “Ice Cream Sandwich” and never updated. I suspect this is because iOS users are more willing to pay for apps and so that’s where independent developers focus their efforts? For now iPhone is still my daily driver. The UX and integration across products is a big reason why for me.

ErneX 3y ago

Google is not doing a great job with the Pixel imo. With some models they also decided to not release them in some countries for whatever reason. I had a Pixel 3A that did not age well and went back to iPhone.

kyriakos 3y ago
Google either doesn't want to compete with android OEMs or doesn't have the capacity to manufacture devices at scale. There is no other explanation, their phones are decent, cheap in comparison to similar models and have good software with very little bloat.

legitster 3y ago

I'm not a huge fan of Apple products, but honestly there is no point fighting it anymore. Cheap androids are still buggy and terrible and even in 2023 lack basic features like NFC. The terrible state of support and updates in the Android world means there is next to no used value for Android flagships. iPhones command stupid prices, but at least they retain their value.

brundolf 3y ago

Anecdotally: I know multiple people who have switched in the last few years. At this point most of the holdouts I know personally are people who are just used to Android and don't want to learn something new (based on talking with them)

de_dave 3y ago

I wonder what the equivalent data are for iPhone to Android switchers. It could also be similarly high, suggesting consumers are switching in higher numbers both ways?