6 ms·

This is probably a big reason why gigantic cities are continuing to grow everywhere. The best way to reduce the stress of being laid off is to move somewhere wi

This is probably a big reason why gigantic cities are continuing to grow everywhere. The best way to reduce the stress of being laid off is to move somewhere with as many employers as possible.

dsr_ 3y ago
Twenty-five years ago a recruiter asked my wife how far she was willing to move. "Why would I move? This is Boston: if there are high-tech jobs at all there will be something here."
- ghaff 3y ago
  You can have offers "you can't refuse" even if you live in a major hub. But it's mostly the case that then it's a matter of you really wanting to do something on net as opposed to having to move to keep food on the table.
  - antisthenes 3y ago
    This varies a lot for different people at different stages of life. For some, +$20,000 to their current salary is an offer they can't refuse, for others, they would need to double their existing six figure salary to even consider moving to another hub.
    - zeroonetwothree 3y ago
      I guess I’m privileged but I wouldn’t move more than 50 miles for any amount of $.
      - zen_1 3y ago
        Not even $20M a year? You could just work for one year and be set for life basically anywhere you want to live.
        BizarroLand 3y ago
        Anyone would move for a limited time period for a life changing amount of money like $20m/year. But for realistic wages in my field, I doubt there is anywhere that would pay me enough to move. Short of moving into management (which I have little experience with) the most I could expect for making a move would be about an extra $40-60k/year moving to the Bay area which would basically cover the difference in cost of living and maybe a little extra pocket change. That's not really worth it for me.
        ghaff 3y ago
        Yeah. When a lot of classmates were taking jobs in Manhattan I pretty much decided you couldn't pay me enough after having an internship there one summer. (This was back in the 80s to boot.) But, of course, I didn't literally mean that. Offer me a few million a year guaranteed and I could put up with a lot for life-changing money for a bit. But realistically not going to happen.
        zdragnar 3y ago
        If someone is offering $20m a year, I can safely assume the job is bogus and pass.
        mv4 3y ago
        for $20M/year you are not really "moving". I are just getting another (very comfortable) place of residence, and you can travel as you see fit (incl. private jets).
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        jandrese 3y ago
        Then you wouldn't even move. Just rent some apartment for a year and then return home when you're done. That's more than enough to pay for a mortgage and rent.
      - usrusr 3y ago
        I could say the same. Money and a particularly nice location, that might be different. Once the basics and some future security are there, more money just means a bigger resource footprint. That's still nice to have, people certainly continue preferring wealth over poverty, but it would be crazy if trade-off thresholds between modesty and ambition didn't shift a little due to awareness of environmental impact.
  - anon223345 3y ago
    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Not 1.2 or 1.4 birds in the bush
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  The real answer is her question, "why would I move?" Recruiter probably didn't have a good response. But for a lot of people the answer is "I want to live somewhere else." I relocated away from a really nice job with challenging work and interesting co-workers simply because I didn't like where I was living. I suspect that I'm not the only one.
lettergram 3y ago
[flagged]
- tclancy 3y ago
  >many cities were burned down in 2020 Which ones were those?
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    Some buildings were burned down in riots but not whole cities. What people haven’t noticed is that this phenomenon has largely run its course. When Tyre Nichols was killed by the police in Memphis this year the police immediately fired the offending officers and… no riots! Many places have gotten rougher, there is the visible disorder in San Francisco but even the small city of Ithaca, NY has seen a large increase in aggressive panhandling. You can plot opioid overdoses on the map and it looks like a pattern of bullets aimed at the needle exchange. People used to think the old African-American neighborhood downtown was “dangerous” (it wasn’t) but rents have gone up, the area has gentrified, and many of the former residents have relocated to smaller towns in the area. Today people are terrified of the large homeless colony by the inlet and the accompanying shopping cart graveyard. The pedestrian mall downtown for years was decimated by a construction project that went overtime like the construction of a nuclear reactor, then the pandemic hit. It has been bouncing back and is even starting to get more diverse businesses (it just got a clothing store after years without one, a restaurant moved into the site McDonalds vacated 25 years ago, …) but boy there are a lot of head shops that look more lurid then head shops every looked. (You are dealing with bro overdose when you have a strain of weed called “AK-47”.). I never thought I’d see the day when the mayor, the governor, and the head of the business improvement district would hail the opening of a cannabis dispensary as a strategy for economic development. My guess is that most cities have people telling a similar story today.
    - bitxbitxbitcoin 3y ago
      You lost me at the last part where it seemed like you were blaming it all on cannabis dispensaries and a strain of weed called “AK-47” - what is bro overdose btw?
helen___keller 3y ago
Agreed. Years ago my wife and I considered moving to my hometown, a medium sized city with affordable housing (at the time). There are a grand total of 2 employers in her field in the whole city. It’s simply not possible to reliably grow her career there. In the end we stayed in our expensive city; in 4 years she got promoted twice, then had multiple competing offers for a new job when her employer went under. Career growth, top wages, and a plethora of jobs are available here. The only reason not to stay is because a decent condo starts at a million, but we got in at 3% interest rate so even that turned out okay.
- brailsafe 3y ago
  Vancouver?
Gigachad 3y ago
Pretty much. I moved to where the jobs are. If you want to hire me, move your office here.
angmarsbane 3y ago
Also, when both spouses have to work to get by you have to live where there are job opportunities for both.
bertday 3y ago
New York Times ran an article yesterday saying otherwise. First tier cities, in terms of size, are losing people, but second tier cities are growing. The cost of living in the largest cities puts a negative force on moving to them.
- ericmay 3y ago
  Doesn't that demonstrate the OP's point? The first tier cities are getting more and more expensive (partially or perhaps primarily do to employment opportunities - i.e. safety) and instead of moving "away from a city", people are moving to other less expensive cities with employment opportunities which, as they grow, become more expensive and repeat the process. And also you have to compare to trends over time.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  I believe that was only educated workers. Metropolis's are still growing from uneducated workers.
- abruzzi 3y ago
  I think the parent post's point is not that its less likely to get laid off, but rather that there are prospects for employement that don't require relocation when you de get laid off.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  Class and Industry segmentation probably plays a role in tier 2 city growth as well. For example, high value manufacturing in the Bay Area (eg. chiplets, electronics) got priced out to San Joaquin Valley and helped lead to the growth of Sacramento; Bay Area tech new grad salaries got so inflated that internships, new grad, and H1B roles in Sales, Professional Services, and SWE started relocating to Austin and Dallas in the 2010s; and back office roles in Accounting+Finance began moving from NYC to Charlotte in the late 2010s as salaries for those roles began breaching the 100k mark in NYC. If I'm someone specialized in Solutions Engineering or Back Office work, I'd probably find a comparable amount of job opportunities in Austin or Charlotte as I would in the Bay or NYC, with the added benefit of affordability.
- 3y ago
smeagull 3y ago
Cities are too expensive. Once baristas and cleaners can't afford to eat, live and travel in one things start to get bad. I'd rather work for less money in a cheaper neighbourhood.
thomascgalvin 3y ago
A few years ago, I moved to Boston for a tech job. The cost of living was like 25% higher, but my salary almost doubled, so I came out for the better. This job was on-site, so there was no choice but to live here. And by "here" I mean a 60- to 90- minute commute, both ways. Now? My job is 100% remote, and any job I would consider would have to be 100% remote. Assuming this trend continues, I think we'll see an exodus from high cost of living areas to (slightly) smaller towns. People are still going to want to live in places that have services, entertainment, and so on, so this isn't going to gut cities, but it will make living in the sticks more plausible.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  > People are still going to want to live in places that have services, entertainment, and so on, so this isn't going to gut cities, but it will make living in the sticks more plausible. The mass exodus already happened. Everybody who wanted to leave what they thought was overpriced pretty much already did. We might see some continuation - but given that companies are trying to claw back as much remote work as possible - I'm skeptical.
  - brailsafe 3y ago
    But I'm not sure anywhere was gutted to see them go. Some people hate being around others, many love denser communities.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - busterarm 3y ago
    I'm now entering my eighth year of working full-time remote since 2008. Had a big gap between 2013 and COVID, but I don't see myself ever going back. South Carolina is too choice of a place to live.
    - elforce002 3y ago
jeffwask 3y ago
For me the convenience and access of city life makes it a better cheaper choice.
bravetraveler 3y ago
Exactly why I've lived in Texas on two different occasions. I can reliably find decent work here, without paying too much to get by. We're slowly approaching the limit, though Mostly paranoia at this stage. Last time I moved away I got laid off... meaning I moved back
nonethewiser 3y ago
Or work remotely. From somewhere cheap. It truly feels like a hack. Not sure if these conditions will remain but it's just nuts atm. Entry/Mid level engineers out-earning local principal engineers with 30+ years experience.
the_gipsy 3y ago
That is generally true. In other words, cities have more opportunities so people move there. Paradoxically if you build more housing, population increases, opportunities increase, and housing prices increase.

This is probably a big reason why gigantic cities are continuing to grow everywhere. The best way to reduce the stress of being laid off is to move somewhere with as many employers as possible.

dsr_ 3y ago

Twenty-five years ago a recruiter asked my wife how far she was willing to move. "Why would I move? This is Boston: if there are high-tech jobs at all there will be something here."

ghaff 3y ago
You can have offers "you can't refuse" even if you live in a major hub. But it's mostly the case that then it's a matter of you really wanting to do something on net as opposed to having to move to keep food on the table.
- antisthenes 3y ago
  This varies a lot for different people at different stages of life. For some, +$20,000 to their current salary is an offer they can't refuse, for others, they would need to double their existing six figure salary to even consider moving to another hub.
  - zeroonetwothree 3y ago
    I guess I’m privileged but I wouldn’t move more than 50 miles for any amount of $.
    - zen_1 3y ago
      Not even $20M a year? You could just work for one year and be set for life basically anywhere you want to live.
      - BizarroLand 3y ago
        Anyone would move for a limited time period for a life changing amount of money like $20m/year. But for realistic wages in my field, I doubt there is anywhere that would pay me enough to move. Short of moving into management (which I have little experience with) the most I could expect for making a move would be about an extra $40-60k/year moving to the Bay area which would basically cover the difference in cost of living and maybe a little extra pocket change. That's not really worth it for me.
        ghaff 3y ago
        Yeah. When a lot of classmates were taking jobs in Manhattan I pretty much decided you couldn't pay me enough after having an internship there one summer. (This was back in the 80s to boot.) But, of course, I didn't literally mean that. Offer me a few million a year guaranteed and I could put up with a lot for life-changing money for a bit. But realistically not going to happen.
      - zdragnar 3y ago
        If someone is offering $20m a year, I can safely assume the job is bogus and pass.
      - mv4 3y ago
        for $20M/year you are not really "moving". I are just getting another (very comfortable) place of residence, and you can travel as you see fit (incl. private jets).
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - jandrese 3y ago
        Then you wouldn't even move. Just rent some apartment for a year and then return home when you're done. That's more than enough to pay for a mortgage and rent.
    - usrusr 3y ago
      I could say the same. Money and a particularly nice location, that might be different. Once the basics and some future security are there, more money just means a bigger resource footprint. That's still nice to have, people certainly continue preferring wealth over poverty, but it would be crazy if trade-off thresholds between modesty and ambition didn't shift a little due to awareness of environmental impact.
- anon223345 3y ago
  A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Not 1.2 or 1.4 birds in the bush
HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
The real answer is her question, "why would I move?" Recruiter probably didn't have a good response. But for a lot of people the answer is "I want to live somewhere else." I relocated away from a really nice job with challenging work and interesting co-workers simply because I didn't like where I was living. I suspect that I'm not the only one.

lettergram 3y ago

[flagged]

tclancy 3y ago
>many cities were burned down in 2020 Which ones were those?
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  Some buildings were burned down in riots but not whole cities. What people haven’t noticed is that this phenomenon has largely run its course. When Tyre Nichols was killed by the police in Memphis this year the police immediately fired the offending officers and… no riots! Many places have gotten rougher, there is the visible disorder in San Francisco but even the small city of Ithaca, NY has seen a large increase in aggressive panhandling. You can plot opioid overdoses on the map and it looks like a pattern of bullets aimed at the needle exchange. People used to think the old African-American neighborhood downtown was “dangerous” (it wasn’t) but rents have gone up, the area has gentrified, and many of the former residents have relocated to smaller towns in the area. Today people are terrified of the large homeless colony by the inlet and the accompanying shopping cart graveyard. The pedestrian mall downtown for years was decimated by a construction project that went overtime like the construction of a nuclear reactor, then the pandemic hit. It has been bouncing back and is even starting to get more diverse businesses (it just got a clothing store after years without one, a restaurant moved into the site McDonalds vacated 25 years ago, …) but boy there are a lot of head shops that look more lurid then head shops every looked. (You are dealing with bro overdose when you have a strain of weed called “AK-47”.). I never thought I’d see the day when the mayor, the governor, and the head of the business improvement district would hail the opening of a cannabis dispensary as a strategy for economic development. My guess is that most cities have people telling a similar story today.
  - bitxbitxbitcoin 3y ago
    You lost me at the last part where it seemed like you were blaming it all on cannabis dispensaries and a strain of weed called “AK-47” - what is bro overdose btw?

helen___keller 3y ago

Agreed. Years ago my wife and I considered moving to my hometown, a medium sized city with affordable housing (at the time). There are a grand total of 2 employers in her field in the whole city. It’s simply not possible to reliably grow her career there. In the end we stayed in our expensive city; in 4 years she got promoted twice, then had multiple competing offers for a new job when her employer went under. Career growth, top wages, and a plethora of jobs are available here. The only reason not to stay is because a decent condo starts at a million, but we got in at 3% interest rate so even that turned out okay.

brailsafe 3y ago
Vancouver?

Gigachad 3y ago

Pretty much. I moved to where the jobs are. If you want to hire me, move your office here.

angmarsbane 3y ago

Also, when both spouses have to work to get by you have to live where there are job opportunities for both.

bertday 3y ago

New York Times ran an article yesterday saying otherwise. First tier cities, in terms of size, are losing people, but second tier cities are growing. The cost of living in the largest cities puts a negative force on moving to them.

ericmay 3y ago
Doesn't that demonstrate the OP's point? The first tier cities are getting more and more expensive (partially or perhaps primarily do to employment opportunities - i.e. safety) and instead of moving "away from a city", people are moving to other less expensive cities with employment opportunities which, as they grow, become more expensive and repeat the process. And also you have to compare to trends over time.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
I believe that was only educated workers. Metropolis's are still growing from uneducated workers.
abruzzi 3y ago
I think the parent post's point is not that its less likely to get laid off, but rather that there are prospects for employement that don't require relocation when you de get laid off.
alephnerd 3y ago
Class and Industry segmentation probably plays a role in tier 2 city growth as well. For example, high value manufacturing in the Bay Area (eg. chiplets, electronics) got priced out to San Joaquin Valley and helped lead to the growth of Sacramento; Bay Area tech new grad salaries got so inflated that internships, new grad, and H1B roles in Sales, Professional Services, and SWE started relocating to Austin and Dallas in the 2010s; and back office roles in Accounting+Finance began moving from NYC to Charlotte in the late 2010s as salaries for those roles began breaching the 100k mark in NYC. If I'm someone specialized in Solutions Engineering or Back Office work, I'd probably find a comparable amount of job opportunities in Austin or Charlotte as I would in the Bay or NYC, with the added benefit of affordability.
3y ago

smeagull 3y ago

Cities are too expensive. Once baristas and cleaners can't afford to eat, live and travel in one things start to get bad. I'd rather work for less money in a cheaper neighbourhood.

thomascgalvin 3y ago

A few years ago, I moved to Boston for a tech job. The cost of living was like 25% higher, but my salary almost doubled, so I came out for the better. This job was on-site, so there was no choice but to live here. And by "here" I mean a 60- to 90- minute commute, both ways. Now? My job is 100% remote, and any job I would consider would have to be 100% remote. Assuming this trend continues, I think we'll see an exodus from high cost of living areas to (slightly) smaller towns. People are still going to want to live in places that have services, entertainment, and so on, so this isn't going to gut cities, but it will make living in the sticks more plausible.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
> People are still going to want to live in places that have services, entertainment, and so on, so this isn't going to gut cities, but it will make living in the sticks more plausible. The mass exodus already happened. Everybody who wanted to leave what they thought was overpriced pretty much already did. We might see some continuation - but given that companies are trying to claw back as much remote work as possible - I'm skeptical.
- brailsafe 3y ago
  But I'm not sure anywhere was gutted to see them go. Some people hate being around others, many love denser communities.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- busterarm 3y ago
  I'm now entering my eighth year of working full-time remote since 2008. Had a big gap between 2013 and COVID, but I don't see myself ever going back. South Carolina is too choice of a place to live.
  - elforce002 3y ago

jeffwask 3y ago

For me the convenience and access of city life makes it a better cheaper choice.

bravetraveler 3y ago

Exactly why I've lived in Texas on two different occasions. I can reliably find decent work here, without paying too much to get by. We're slowly approaching the limit, though Mostly paranoia at this stage. Last time I moved away I got laid off... meaning I moved back

nonethewiser 3y ago

Or work remotely. From somewhere cheap. It truly feels like a hack. Not sure if these conditions will remain but it's just nuts atm. Entry/Mid level engineers out-earning local principal engineers with 30+ years experience.

the_gipsy 3y ago

That is generally true. In other words, cities have more opportunities so people move there. Paradoxically if you build more housing, population increases, opportunities increase, and housing prices increase.