14 ms·

How fast can European steelmakers decarbonise?

55 points by Pietertje 3y ago

johanneswu 3y ago
Without paywall https://archive.is/tzEcD https://archive.is/tzEcD
ranting-moth 3y ago
Is everyone decarbonising? India, China? I get the feeling they're laughing all that way to the bank. (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along)
- gjsman-1000 3y ago
  They've made commitments, at least enough to convince Europe and the US that they are working on it... but whether they will spend more than $5.20 on enforcement, I doubt. Far more fun and strategic to let the US and EU do what they do and shout "We're with you!" from the sidelines. China also makes 80% of the world's solar panels, so we shouldn't pretend that China convincing the US to decarbonize doesn't have some pretty nice business interest in selling them to us - even though it is only 3.5% of their energy generation over there. Kind of like how China is a WTO member, claims to support Copyright, upholds Patent Law, and respects Intellectual Property. They also respect their Constitution, including the provisions for Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech, and have an independent Supreme Court to enforce checks-and-balances on their President. They also have a Functioning Democracy with 8 other political parties. Anyone who has actually interacted with them in any of those fields...
  - Haga 3y ago
    [dead]
  - WeylandYutani 3y ago
    The CCP is dedicated to social stability. China has a long history of environmental disasters causing political unrest. Being a democracy is actually bad for taking action on this issue. The Republicans are still denying climate change.
- gumby 3y ago
  > (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along) It's worth doing even if others don't. Especially for the wealthy countries -- the poor countries emit relatively little carbon per capita. The new energy transition is from op ex to cap ex. Looks expensive in the short term but a big win in the medium and long term. Plus you get the benefit of reduced emissions. Sure, other people do, but even if you're selfish it's a good deal.
  - goatlover 3y ago
    The climate doesn’t care about per capita. The developing world has the majority of the population, so the majority of additional CO2 will be coming from there.
    - boterock 3y ago
      Fun way to look at it, you at the north give us a lot of planned obsolence goods in exchange for our monies. North even gets into politics pushing developing countries infrastructure towards oil economies. and then, we consume what you led us to, and suddenly we're the bad guys.
      - goatlover 3y ago
        Humanity is the bad guy. Well, the planet doesn’t care. It’s about how much climate change we want to deal with.
    - realityking 3y ago
      In effect you‘re saying that countries that are poor today must not be allowed to reach the level of western countries. I don‘t have a good word for it but that‘s a very specific worldview. If we believe that every country has the right to develop, than the poorest countries emission will increase. Better technology will flatten that increase but those are expensive. Wealthy countries pioneering the widespread use of these technologies will reduce cost and allow developing countries to deploy them in the future.
- TrainedMonkey 3y ago
  This video summarizes this point pretty well - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdqJu-6ZPo&t=201s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdqJu-6ZPo&t=201s I don't know the solution because the problem is huge, but my strong suspicion is that focusing on industrial efficiency is the largest needle we can move. Specifically, making it economically sensible to use green technologies in developing countries.
- kieranmaine 3y ago
  This is covered in the article: "Europe’s steelmakers have one more strong incentive to get decarbonising. Under the eu emissions-trading system, they are currently awarded 80% of their allowances for CO2 emissions free of charge in order to remain competitive with dirtier producers in places like China and India. Over the next ten years the eu will phase out these freebies and replace them with a carbon tariff on dirty imports. If eu steelmakers stay grey, calculates Morgan Stanley, their profits could sink by up to 70%."
- ognarb 3y ago
  I wonder if at some point the EU should block the usage of dirty steel and only authorize carbon neutral steel. This would provide a great incentive for other countries to also invest in clean alternative.
  - penneallagricia 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - quasarsunnix 3y ago
    I think that's a great idea and could be applied to a lot of industries with large offshore carbon footprints. Maybe tariffs or quota limits that are linked to carbon?
  - zokier 3y ago
    > The Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism will apply to imports across several sectors, including steel and aluminum, forcing them to respect EU environmental standards. It will come into effect in 2026 or 2027. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/12/13/eu-adopts-carbon-border-tax-to-fight-polluting-imports_6007589_114.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/12/13/eu-...
    - Gravityloss 3y ago
      yes, this is bigger news than people realize!
    - euroderf 3y ago
      The EU should have had something like this to apply to imports from the USA a long time ago. But, better late than never. Play nice with Biden.
  - penneallagricia 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - CogitoCogito 3y ago
- TheSmiddy 3y ago
  China is rapidly decarbonising their transport, faster than any other country. They also produce the vast majority of the world's solar panels.
- yongjik 3y ago
  There are Wikipedia articles for 2015 Indian heat wave (2,500 dead), 2016 heat wave, 2019 heat wave, 2022 heat wave, and the current ongoing 2023 heat wave. 2021 Henan flood killed hundreds and forced evacuation of 800k people. Imagine what you want, but nobody's laughing any more.
  - HPsquared 3y ago
    Prisoner's dilemma. What better way to pay for flood walls and air conditioning, than profitable high-emission industry.
    - avianlyric 3y ago
      Except that isn’t true anymore. The tight coupling between economic development and CO2 emissions has been broken, and there’s no longer any reason to believe that high CO2 output industry is best way for developing countries to improve their standards of living. The west might have burned its way to economic development, but developing nations are forging their own paths, and hydrocarbons aren’t the industrial requirement they used to be, or even the most economical way to producing energy. Choosing “green” alternatives also means choosing alternatives that faster and easier to deploy, work incredibly well in decentralised systems, and are often cheaper and easier to repair.
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  > Wenbo He, secretary of the Party Committee and executive chairman of the China Iron and Steel Association (CISA), spoke about China’s green steel plans at the integration conference of green steel, green energy and green finance industries on March 2 https://www.fastmarkets.com/insights/chinas-roadmap-to-green-steel https://www.fastmarkets.com/insights/chinas-roadmap-to-green...
- solarkraft 3y ago
  Yes, they are. The bank is Europe.
- defrost 3y ago
  China takes this seriously: World’s biggest steel maker (based in China) eyes new green steel plant in WA (Western Australia) https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/world-s-biggest-steel-maker-eyes-new-green-steel-plant-in-wa-20230512-p5d80l.html https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/world-... > Western Australia is in the running to host a green steel plant bankrolled by the world’s biggest steel maker, China Baowu Group. > During talks with Trade Minister Don Farrell in Beijing, company chairman Chen Dorong said the availability of clean energy and ore made Western Australia ideal as a site for the new facility. > The biggest buyer of Australian iron ore wants to decarbonise operations but is also eyeing West Africa, South America and Saudi Arabia as alternatives. The largest resource companies are making commitments they regret, but are now tied to public statements and shareholders to meet: Rio Tinto boss says he regrets ambitious emissions targets https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/rio-tinto-boss-says-he-regrets-ambitious-emissions-targets-20230505-p5d5za.html https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/rio-ti... > Rio Tinto boss Jakob Stausholm has admitted he regrets the company’s ambitious emission reduction targets, doubling down on comments about the feasibility of moving to renewable energy at the pace expected. > “There have been a lot of strong statements made [about the energy transition], but I don’t think people have realised and accounted for the process of getting the land, the cultural clearings and then executing the project,” Stausholm told a business breakfast in Perth on Friday.
- WeylandYutani 3y ago
  Not having heavy industry means less pollution. China has serious environmental issues. Which costs you money in the long run.
quirk 3y ago
Just please don't decarbonize my swords. I need them for work.
- hinkley 3y ago
  This is either a joke or you don't know how your tools are made. I'm hoping it's the former. The carbon in the steel serves two purposes. One, it alters the structure of the final steel. Too much, or too little and the metal doesn't behave right, so it's not fit for purpose. Two, it's a sacrificial reducer that keeps any stray oxygen from eating the metal during the heat and cool cycles (most of us call hot oxidation 'burning'). You're still going to need a little carbon to get the steel right and maybe to help catch a few stray oxygen atoms, but if you can heat the metal with something other than coal/charcoal, and you can provide another reducing agent, then you don't have to bathe the entire process in carbon. You'd just need enough to get the crystalline structure right, and perhaps a margin of error. And that sort of fraction could come from renewable resources.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  Now I want to know what you do for work that requires swords...
  - hinkley 3y ago
    Professional edge lord.
  - pestatije 3y ago
    swordcery
  - tmtvl 3y ago
    Fencing teacher?
  - AnonymousPlanet 3y ago
    Maybe running cutting edge blade servers
scythe 3y ago
One thing I've been sort of curious about with non-carbothermal iron ore reduction is whether it could bring back wrought iron. Wrought iron disappeared around the 1960s due to high production costs — the crude product contains carbon, which must be removed by working — but iron produced with hydrogen or electricity will not have a chance to absorb carbon like this. There's more to it than that — you have to achieve a particular grain structure and fibrous silicate inclusions. But the corrosion resistance is nice — some wrought iron fencing in the highly corrosive atmosphere of New Orleans persists to this day. One paper reported that the corrosion resistance is better than mild steel but lower than weathering steel — but without creating the stains we associate with weathering steel: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/237170109.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/237170109.pdf
- aidenn0 3y ago
  Aren't some high-tensile steels rather equivalent to wrought iron? [edit] I couldn't find any high-tensile steel with C alloyed below 0.18%, which is more carbon than what Wikipedia lists for wrought iron.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Zamicol 3y ago
The first solar-powered steel mill was recently built in Pueblo, Colorado: https://gizmodo.com/the-world-s-first-solar-powered-steel-mill-is-here-1847908119 https://gizmodo.com/the-world-s-first-solar-powered-steel-mi...
- dporter 3y ago
  The last paragraph of this article sums up a trend I keep seeing in this industry I don't like: > But while decarbonizing heavy industry is a good thing, the folks behind this project are not my favorites. Lightsource BP is a joint venture between the steel company EVRAZ and the energy giant BP, as well as the utility giant Xcel Energy, which will provide the steel mill with fixed electricity rates through 2041. BP and Xcel wouldn’t exactly be my top choices to control the energy of the future, what with both companies’ histories of spewing out carbon emissions, greenwashing their polluting business plans, and screwing over workers. I personally don’t think these kinds of companies should get to make big profits on solar power or use it to paper over their destructive legacies. But hey, maybe that’s just me! The alternative to this is what? Complete newcomers to the industry attempting to execute multi-million or -billion dollar projects? Anyone in an existing carbon-intensive industry is going to have a "climate unfriendly" reputation because they operate in a "climate unfriendly" industry. Attempting to block existing players in the industry from decarbonizing seems counterproductive.
  - Zamicol 3y ago
    You're right, omitting opinions would have made for a more informative piece. Here's some other (probably better quality) links: - https://www.chieftain.com/story/news/2022/03/18/bighorn-solar-project-support-pueblo-steel-mill-completed/7092334001/ https://www.chieftain.com/story/news/2022/03/18/bighorn-sola... - https://www.constructiondive.com/news/worlds-largest-solar-powered-steel-mill-breaks-ground-in-colorado/619381 https://www.constructiondive.com/news/worlds-largest-solar-p...
- _hypx 3y ago
  That's steel recycling, not production of new steel.
easytiger 3y ago
Only in the absurd world of carbon credits is this required - something that is nearly impossible to do any other way - that contributes practically nothing to global CO2 vs the incredible benefit to society it proffers - has to stop. Why?
- Barrin92 3y ago
  decarbonizing the industrial supply chains is pretty crucial because a lot of the other green infrastructure that's going to be needed to be built around the world is going to be less effective otherwise. If your green tech needs to run for years to simply claw back what was required to make it that is a huge issue.
  - easytiger 3y ago
    > If your green tech needs to run for years to simply claw back what was required to make it that is a huge issue. An engineering mind would never prefer high risk authoritarian enforcement of theoretical solutions to solve a problem. You are reducing diversity to shoot yourself in the foot
    - thfuran 3y ago
      Was the EPA a mistake because heavy industry without dumping loads of shit in the rivers was a theoretical solution that reduced diversity?
      - easytiger 3y ago
        Why do you think that is equivalent?
        thfuran 3y ago
        Why do you think it isn't?
- SECProto 3y ago
neonate 3y ago
http://web.archive.org/web/20230512214044/https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/11/how-fast-can-european-steelmakers-decarbonise http://web.archive.org/web/20230512214044/https://www.econom... https://archive.ph/tzEcD https://archive.ph/tzEcD
roamerz 3y ago
The sooner that people realize that the climate is going to change regardless of what humanity does the better off we will be. When the reality sinks in maybe we can put our efforts into adapting. Might have a chance that way.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  The climate is going to change. Whether or not it changes 1000x times the historic norm is up to us.
  - roamerz 3y ago
    I read in places their are feedback loops that will be impossible to reverse once they start. If that’s true or not I don’t know. My simple mind says we should start with additional dams and develop huge desalinization plants. If we have water we’ll be okay. On the flip side there is an unstable criminal with his finger on the WW3 button. When he’s done we might need some of that global warming.
- kwere 3y ago
  The world had a chance to keep climate change under the belt in the 80s with nuclear energy, but unscentific enviromentalists pushed hard against it and helped to kill the nuclear industry in most of the world before it reached maturity/economies of scales (like modular reactors today). Now, the trillions of $ should be better spend adapting our societies to climate changes instead of playing Don Chisciotte
user6723 3y ago
Safire plasma, which forms self-containing magnetic fields and is a fusion reaction that can stay lit pretty much indefinitely with no artificial magnet infrastructure (like the crappy Tokomak) renders the CO2 narrative moot.

55 points by Pietertje 3y ago

Without paywall https://archive.is/tzEcD https://archive.is/tzEcD

Is everyone decarbonising? India, China? I get the feeling they're laughing all that way to the bank. (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along)

gjsman-1000 3y ago
They've made commitments, at least enough to convince Europe and the US that they are working on it... but whether they will spend more than $5.20 on enforcement, I doubt. Far more fun and strategic to let the US and EU do what they do and shout "We're with you!" from the sidelines. China also makes 80% of the world's solar panels, so we shouldn't pretend that China convincing the US to decarbonize doesn't have some pretty nice business interest in selling them to us - even though it is only 3.5% of their energy generation over there. Kind of like how China is a WTO member, claims to support Copyright, upholds Patent Law, and respects Intellectual Property. They also respect their Constitution, including the provisions for Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech, and have an independent Supreme Court to enforce checks-and-balances on their President. They also have a Functioning Democracy with 8 other political parties. Anyone who has actually interacted with them in any of those fields...
- Haga 3y ago
  [dead]
- WeylandYutani 3y ago
  The CCP is dedicated to social stability. China has a long history of environmental disasters causing political unrest. Being a democracy is actually bad for taking action on this issue. The Republicans are still denying climate change.
gumby 3y ago
> (All in favour of it, just everyone has to play along) It's worth doing even if others don't. Especially for the wealthy countries -- the poor countries emit relatively little carbon per capita. The new energy transition is from op ex to cap ex. Looks expensive in the short term but a big win in the medium and long term. Plus you get the benefit of reduced emissions. Sure, other people do, but even if you're selfish it's a good deal.
- goatlover 3y ago
  The climate doesn’t care about per capita. The developing world has the majority of the population, so the majority of additional CO2 will be coming from there.
  - boterock 3y ago
    Fun way to look at it, you at the north give us a lot of planned obsolence goods in exchange for our monies. North even gets into politics pushing developing countries infrastructure towards oil economies. and then, we consume what you led us to, and suddenly we're the bad guys.
    - goatlover 3y ago
      Humanity is the bad guy. Well, the planet doesn’t care. It’s about how much climate change we want to deal with.
  - realityking 3y ago
    In effect you‘re saying that countries that are poor today must not be allowed to reach the level of western countries. I don‘t have a good word for it but that‘s a very specific worldview. If we believe that every country has the right to develop, than the poorest countries emission will increase. Better technology will flatten that increase but those are expensive. Wealthy countries pioneering the widespread use of these technologies will reduce cost and allow developing countries to deploy them in the future.
TrainedMonkey 3y ago
This video summarizes this point pretty well - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdqJu-6ZPo&t=201s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdqJu-6ZPo&t=201s I don't know the solution because the problem is huge, but my strong suspicion is that focusing on industrial efficiency is the largest needle we can move. Specifically, making it economically sensible to use green technologies in developing countries.
kieranmaine 3y ago
This is covered in the article: "Europe’s steelmakers have one more strong incentive to get decarbonising. Under the eu emissions-trading system, they are currently awarded 80% of their allowances for CO2 emissions free of charge in order to remain competitive with dirtier producers in places like China and India. Over the next ten years the eu will phase out these freebies and replace them with a carbon tariff on dirty imports. If eu steelmakers stay grey, calculates Morgan Stanley, their profits could sink by up to 70%."
ognarb 3y ago
I wonder if at some point the EU should block the usage of dirty steel and only authorize carbon neutral steel. This would provide a great incentive for other countries to also invest in clean alternative.
- penneallagricia 3y ago
  [flagged]
- quasarsunnix 3y ago
  I think that's a great idea and could be applied to a lot of industries with large offshore carbon footprints. Maybe tariffs or quota limits that are linked to carbon?
- zokier 3y ago
  > The Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism will apply to imports across several sectors, including steel and aluminum, forcing them to respect EU environmental standards. It will come into effect in 2026 or 2027. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/12/13/eu-adopts-carbon-border-tax-to-fight-polluting-imports_6007589_114.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/12/13/eu-...
  - Gravityloss 3y ago
    yes, this is bigger news than people realize!
  - euroderf 3y ago
    The EU should have had something like this to apply to imports from the USA a long time ago. But, better late than never. Play nice with Biden.
- penneallagricia 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - CogitoCogito 3y ago
TheSmiddy 3y ago
China is rapidly decarbonising their transport, faster than any other country. They also produce the vast majority of the world's solar panels.
yongjik 3y ago
There are Wikipedia articles for 2015 Indian heat wave (2,500 dead), 2016 heat wave, 2019 heat wave, 2022 heat wave, and the current ongoing 2023 heat wave. 2021 Henan flood killed hundreds and forced evacuation of 800k people. Imagine what you want, but nobody's laughing any more.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  Prisoner's dilemma. What better way to pay for flood walls and air conditioning, than profitable high-emission industry.
  - avianlyric 3y ago
    Except that isn’t true anymore. The tight coupling between economic development and CO2 emissions has been broken, and there’s no longer any reason to believe that high CO2 output industry is best way for developing countries to improve their standards of living. The west might have burned its way to economic development, but developing nations are forging their own paths, and hydrocarbons aren’t the industrial requirement they used to be, or even the most economical way to producing energy. Choosing “green” alternatives also means choosing alternatives that faster and easier to deploy, work incredibly well in decentralised systems, and are often cheaper and easier to repair.
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
> Wenbo He, secretary of the Party Committee and executive chairman of the China Iron and Steel Association (CISA), spoke about China’s green steel plans at the integration conference of green steel, green energy and green finance industries on March 2 https://www.fastmarkets.com/insights/chinas-roadmap-to-green-steel https://www.fastmarkets.com/insights/chinas-roadmap-to-green...
solarkraft 3y ago
Yes, they are. The bank is Europe.
defrost 3y ago
China takes this seriously: World’s biggest steel maker (based in China) eyes new green steel plant in WA (Western Australia) https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/world-s-biggest-steel-maker-eyes-new-green-steel-plant-in-wa-20230512-p5d80l.html https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/world-... > Western Australia is in the running to host a green steel plant bankrolled by the world’s biggest steel maker, China Baowu Group. > During talks with Trade Minister Don Farrell in Beijing, company chairman Chen Dorong said the availability of clean energy and ore made Western Australia ideal as a site for the new facility. > The biggest buyer of Australian iron ore wants to decarbonise operations but is also eyeing West Africa, South America and Saudi Arabia as alternatives. The largest resource companies are making commitments they regret, but are now tied to public statements and shareholders to meet: Rio Tinto boss says he regrets ambitious emissions targets https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/rio-tinto-boss-says-he-regrets-ambitious-emissions-targets-20230505-p5d5za.html https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/rio-ti... > Rio Tinto boss Jakob Stausholm has admitted he regrets the company’s ambitious emission reduction targets, doubling down on comments about the feasibility of moving to renewable energy at the pace expected. > “There have been a lot of strong statements made [about the energy transition], but I don’t think people have realised and accounted for the process of getting the land, the cultural clearings and then executing the project,” Stausholm told a business breakfast in Perth on Friday.
WeylandYutani 3y ago
Not having heavy industry means less pollution. China has serious environmental issues. Which costs you money in the long run.

quirk 3y ago

Just please don't decarbonize my swords. I need them for work.

hinkley 3y ago
This is either a joke or you don't know how your tools are made. I'm hoping it's the former. The carbon in the steel serves two purposes. One, it alters the structure of the final steel. Too much, or too little and the metal doesn't behave right, so it's not fit for purpose. Two, it's a sacrificial reducer that keeps any stray oxygen from eating the metal during the heat and cool cycles (most of us call hot oxidation 'burning'). You're still going to need a little carbon to get the steel right and maybe to help catch a few stray oxygen atoms, but if you can heat the metal with something other than coal/charcoal, and you can provide another reducing agent, then you don't have to bathe the entire process in carbon. You'd just need enough to get the crystalline structure right, and perhaps a margin of error. And that sort of fraction could come from renewable resources.
aidenn0 3y ago
Now I want to know what you do for work that requires swords...
- hinkley 3y ago
  Professional edge lord.
- pestatije 3y ago
  swordcery
- tmtvl 3y ago
  Fencing teacher?
- AnonymousPlanet 3y ago
  Maybe running cutting edge blade servers

scythe 3y ago

One thing I've been sort of curious about with non-carbothermal iron ore reduction is whether it could bring back wrought iron. Wrought iron disappeared around the 1960s due to high production costs — the crude product contains carbon, which must be removed by working — but iron produced with hydrogen or electricity will not have a chance to absorb carbon like this. There's more to it than that — you have to achieve a particular grain structure and fibrous silicate inclusions. But the corrosion resistance is nice — some wrought iron fencing in the highly corrosive atmosphere of New Orleans persists to this day. One paper reported that the corrosion resistance is better than mild steel but lower than weathering steel — but without creating the stains we associate with weathering steel: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/237170109.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/237170109.pdf

aidenn0 3y ago
Aren't some high-tensile steels rather equivalent to wrought iron? [edit] I couldn't find any high-tensile steel with C alloyed below 0.18%, which is more carbon than what Wikipedia lists for wrought iron.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Zamicol 3y ago

The first solar-powered steel mill was recently built in Pueblo, Colorado: https://gizmodo.com/the-world-s-first-solar-powered-steel-mill-is-here-1847908119 https://gizmodo.com/the-world-s-first-solar-powered-steel-mi...

dporter 3y ago
The last paragraph of this article sums up a trend I keep seeing in this industry I don't like: > But while decarbonizing heavy industry is a good thing, the folks behind this project are not my favorites. Lightsource BP is a joint venture between the steel company EVRAZ and the energy giant BP, as well as the utility giant Xcel Energy, which will provide the steel mill with fixed electricity rates through 2041. BP and Xcel wouldn’t exactly be my top choices to control the energy of the future, what with both companies’ histories of spewing out carbon emissions, greenwashing their polluting business plans, and screwing over workers. I personally don’t think these kinds of companies should get to make big profits on solar power or use it to paper over their destructive legacies. But hey, maybe that’s just me! The alternative to this is what? Complete newcomers to the industry attempting to execute multi-million or -billion dollar projects? Anyone in an existing carbon-intensive industry is going to have a "climate unfriendly" reputation because they operate in a "climate unfriendly" industry. Attempting to block existing players in the industry from decarbonizing seems counterproductive.
- Zamicol 3y ago
  You're right, omitting opinions would have made for a more informative piece. Here's some other (probably better quality) links: - https://www.chieftain.com/story/news/2022/03/18/bighorn-solar-project-support-pueblo-steel-mill-completed/7092334001/ https://www.chieftain.com/story/news/2022/03/18/bighorn-sola... - https://www.constructiondive.com/news/worlds-largest-solar-powered-steel-mill-breaks-ground-in-colorado/619381 https://www.constructiondive.com/news/worlds-largest-solar-p...
_hypx 3y ago
That's steel recycling, not production of new steel.

easytiger 3y ago

Only in the absurd world of carbon credits is this required - something that is nearly impossible to do any other way - that contributes practically nothing to global CO2 vs the incredible benefit to society it proffers - has to stop. Why?

Barrin92 3y ago
decarbonizing the industrial supply chains is pretty crucial because a lot of the other green infrastructure that's going to be needed to be built around the world is going to be less effective otherwise. If your green tech needs to run for years to simply claw back what was required to make it that is a huge issue.
- easytiger 3y ago
  > If your green tech needs to run for years to simply claw back what was required to make it that is a huge issue. An engineering mind would never prefer high risk authoritarian enforcement of theoretical solutions to solve a problem. You are reducing diversity to shoot yourself in the foot
  - thfuran 3y ago
    Was the EPA a mistake because heavy industry without dumping loads of shit in the rivers was a theoretical solution that reduced diversity?
    - easytiger 3y ago
      Why do you think that is equivalent?
      - thfuran 3y ago
        Why do you think it isn't?
SECProto 3y ago

neonate 3y ago

http://web.archive.org/web/20230512214044/https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/11/how-fast-can-european-steelmakers-decarbonise http://web.archive.org/web/20230512214044/https://www.econom... https://archive.ph/tzEcD https://archive.ph/tzEcD

roamerz 3y ago

The sooner that people realize that the climate is going to change regardless of what humanity does the better off we will be. When the reality sinks in maybe we can put our efforts into adapting. Might have a chance that way.

dukeyukey 3y ago
The climate is going to change. Whether or not it changes 1000x times the historic norm is up to us.
- roamerz 3y ago
  I read in places their are feedback loops that will be impossible to reverse once they start. If that’s true or not I don’t know. My simple mind says we should start with additional dams and develop huge desalinization plants. If we have water we’ll be okay. On the flip side there is an unstable criminal with his finger on the WW3 button. When he’s done we might need some of that global warming.
kwere 3y ago
The world had a chance to keep climate change under the belt in the 80s with nuclear energy, but unscentific enviromentalists pushed hard against it and helped to kill the nuclear industry in most of the world before it reached maturity/economies of scales (like modular reactors today). Now, the trillions of $ should be better spend adapting our societies to climate changes instead of playing Don Chisciotte

user6723 3y ago

Safire plasma, which forms self-containing magnetic fields and is a fusion reaction that can stay lit pretty much indefinitely with no artificial magnet infrastructure (like the crappy Tokomak) renders the CO2 narrative moot.