6 ms·

my ipad 2018 is pretty obsolete already. it can't be updated due to speed and hardware issues, and most apps won't work on the old os

worik 3y ago
Yes. This is the problem with the tablet duopoly I looked very hard a two years ago for a high end tablet that I could put my own OS on. All I could find was the one by Pine64, and it was not "high end" I am typing this on an eight year old laptop I bought second hand at the start of COVID lock downs. Running Linux, it works pretty damn well. Why can I not get a tablet like that?
- qup 3y ago
  I got a surface tablet. The one that just runs normal windows. I'm not a Windows user normally, but it's the best "tablet" OS by far IMO. You can get WSL, and honestly I would be surprised if you can't install Linux on it, but I haven't actually checked.
  - lloeki 3y ago
    > high end tablet that I could put my own OS on with that requirement I would concur, Surface (Intel) seems to be the best bet, although last time I checked (which was a couple of years ago) full support was spotty depending on generation. Maybe someone else can chime in with feedback about getting Linux on there?
    - pizza234 3y ago
      I have been using Surface devices for a couple of years. I liked them a lot; in particular, I think that the Surface Book is (was) a unique machine, before being abandoned by M$ (it definitely needs/needed a reengineering). Long time after release (Pro 3, Book 1), both devices became usable (BT, camera/mic, wifi; I've never used touch on Linux, and anyway, Linux's DEs are/were not really designed for touch), although sleep is a significant problem, due M$'s s0 idle. I've ultimately moved to a normal laptop plus Android tablet. Without really good O/S support, I think that hybrids in general don't make much sense (I used to dual boot). The advantages of a split configuration are considerable, both in terms of ergonomy and specs. For example, a recent Ipad Air, is lighter, and lasts much more than any Surface, while being large enough. In practice, the only time when I need a large tablet is when I read magazines, but even then, an A4 is "not great" on a 13.5", so even a Surface Book doesn't universally solve any reading need with its size (the 15" is too heavy). An Ipad Pro is IMO the only acceptable hybrid/tablet (but I personally don't use Mac stuff for work) on the market, currently.
  - the__alchemist 3y ago
    You can install Linux on a Surface, but there is no good writing software for Linux, but touch and pen support is finicky/complicated.
- fsflover 3y ago
  > Why can I not get a tablet like that? You can: https://pine64.com/product-category/pinetab/ https://pine64.com/product-category/pinetab/
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    Was very enthusiastic to check this out, but then >Resolution: 1280×800 pixels Yeah...I'm out. Even cheapo Android tablets now have 2000x1200 displays. I bought an ARM Windows tablet for 200 Euro and that has a 2880x1920 display. My eyes are grateful when reading text, not going back to displays reporting in inches per pixel. I'm really sad Intel pulled the plug on X86 Atom chips for tablets. It was super easy to boot any OS on them. Unlike ARM tablets.
    - fsflover 3y ago
      There are rumors that Purism are also making a user-respecting tablet.
      - worik 3y ago
        Interested. Do not be a tease, what rumours?
        fsflover 3y ago
        There is no specific info yet: https://forums.puri.sm/t/h-k-s-purism-librem-16/20174/2 https://forums.puri.sm/t/h-k-s-purism-librem-16/20174/2 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-6-look-ahead-wishlist/18694/146 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-6-look-ahead-wishlist/18694/...
  - worik 3y ago
    For fun, I might. But I need a high ed tablet. This one is deliberately not No disrespect to Pine64, the design is not what I need
- fweimer 3y ago
  In my experience, the issue with tablets running GNU/Linux is not so much hardware driver support, but that the usual desktop just does not support touch input very well. For example, last time I tried, Debian does not build Firefox in such a way that you could use it with a touch screen for scrolling, opening links in new tabs, and so on. Similarly, evince did not properly support navigation in PDF documents. But libinput debugging showed that the software stack was producing touch data that looked quite detailed.
  - worik 3y ago
    It was for a project that would have been the only programme running, with ts own bespoke interface Went with the iPad. Yuk
lloeki 3y ago
I presume it's a 6th gen (A10). While A10 phones stopped receiving OS updates with iOS 16, this iPad is still supported by iOS 16. I had an iPhone 7 (same SoC) til early this year with iOS 15 and it was fine (changed because it got physically destroyed); I was never prevented to install any app even though iOS 16 was released well over 6 months before. I have a 7th gen iPad (A10) and iPad Pro 10.5 (A10X) and they both work perfectly fine with iOS 16. In any case, even if it stopped being supported that's a far cry from that aforementioned Pixel situation where it stopped being supported _the next year_.
- idoubtit 3y ago
  > that aforementioned Pixel situation where it stopped being supported _the next year_. That Pixel (from 2016) did not stop being supported the next year (2017). Android 8 was first released in 2017 and was followed by Android 9 one year later. So it was most recent Android up to 2018. Then it was still supported, since the latest patch for Android 8 was in 2021 and the latest compatible Google Play services release was this month (2023). So the phone and OS are still supported today, but I suppose that circa 2020 (2-3 OS releases later) some applications started requiring a more recent OS.
  - scarface74 3y ago
    So in affect it isn’t being supported? Apple supports phones with OS upgrades much longer and then still releases patches for older versions of iOS.
    - m45t3r 3y ago
      I would argue it still is, because I am sure most Android apps still supports Android 9. Google is also much more serious about backward compatibility than Apple, and go a long way to make sure that Android APIs has backwards compatibility between multiple versions of it, see https://developer.android.com/topic/libraries/support-library https://developer.android.com/topic/libraries/support-librar... and https://developer.android.com/jetpack/androidx https://developer.android.com/jetpack/androidx. So as long your device is still receiving security updates, it means you can pretty confidently run the majority of Android apps, even if you're in an older device. This is specially true since essential apps like browsers use their own engine and can receive security updates. This is very different from iOS that once it stops receiving updates, you're pretty much screwed up. Not saying that one approach is better than the other, but both have trade-offs.
0_____0 3y ago
??? I run a 2015 ipad and I haven't run across an app that won't run on it.
jahnu 3y ago
How is that? I have a 2014 iPad Air 2 and while it didn't get the very latest major update it is still getting security and bug fix minor updates for iPadOS 15. And not only that it's still working great and very usable! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_15#Releases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_15#Releases
wodenokoto 3y ago
My iPad 2011 is also obsolete. The screen looks great and it runs both Vlan and iBook just fine, so I can connect it to a PC and move books and videos on it. It’s not great for browsing any more it is still a great study tool (still runs anki, still great for reading) It’s still a good tool, but it has definitely lost features over time.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
My 2019 iPad Pro is kind of obsolete, its battery life isn’t great. But it still does mostly what I need it to do, so I can’t bring myself to buy a new one.
- MichaelVangard 3y ago
  What does obsolete mean to you? There’s nothing obsolete about a 2019 iPad Pro. It received the most recent iPadOS update and it’ll certainly receive an update to iPadOS 17. The hardware is as good or better than current entry level iPads. The battery should still be good, but maybe yours needs replaced.
  - nomel 3y ago
    From people that use these sorts of terms in my life, it's an internal justification to make a new purchase, usually with a payment plan.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Hmm, if that were the case I would have just done it already. But no, I looked at the trade in value for it via Apple's exchange program, and they said...they would be happy to recycle it for me.
      - nomel 3y ago
        I’m not sure I understand. Is your definition of obsolete based on trade in value? What about resale value? What about functionality?
- goblin89 3y ago
  I own one device that I cannot imagine wanting to upgrade or call “obsolete” in foreseeable future: the 2018[0] 256 GB third generation 13-inch iPad Pro. Granted, in my workflow it faces fewer demands than for example a laptop or phone (I don’t program on iPad or use it for full media production workflow), I don’t rely on it day in day out like I do on those devices, and perhaps I will change my mind once it stops receiving updates, but all of what it needs to do it just does (communication, leisure, music/art playground) and had been doing for years with no noticeable degradation. Somehow I have a soft spot for this particular trusty shiny rectangle. [0] Replaced in 2020 due to no fault of its own but my idiocy that resulted in broken screen. Incidentally, with expired AppleCare+ that cost me around half of the original price. I’m not super wealthy but I don’t regret this specific expense.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
slap it on your refrigerator as a calendar/recipe book.

worik 3y ago

Yes. This is the problem with the tablet duopoly I looked very hard a two years ago for a high end tablet that I could put my own OS on. All I could find was the one by Pine64, and it was not "high end" I am typing this on an eight year old laptop I bought second hand at the start of COVID lock downs. Running Linux, it works pretty damn well. Why can I not get a tablet like that?

qup 3y ago
I got a surface tablet. The one that just runs normal windows. I'm not a Windows user normally, but it's the best "tablet" OS by far IMO. You can get WSL, and honestly I would be surprised if you can't install Linux on it, but I haven't actually checked.
- lloeki 3y ago
  > high end tablet that I could put my own OS on with that requirement I would concur, Surface (Intel) seems to be the best bet, although last time I checked (which was a couple of years ago) full support was spotty depending on generation. Maybe someone else can chime in with feedback about getting Linux on there?
  - pizza234 3y ago
    I have been using Surface devices for a couple of years. I liked them a lot; in particular, I think that the Surface Book is (was) a unique machine, before being abandoned by M$ (it definitely needs/needed a reengineering). Long time after release (Pro 3, Book 1), both devices became usable (BT, camera/mic, wifi; I've never used touch on Linux, and anyway, Linux's DEs are/were not really designed for touch), although sleep is a significant problem, due M$'s s0 idle. I've ultimately moved to a normal laptop plus Android tablet. Without really good O/S support, I think that hybrids in general don't make much sense (I used to dual boot). The advantages of a split configuration are considerable, both in terms of ergonomy and specs. For example, a recent Ipad Air, is lighter, and lasts much more than any Surface, while being large enough. In practice, the only time when I need a large tablet is when I read magazines, but even then, an A4 is "not great" on a 13.5", so even a Surface Book doesn't universally solve any reading need with its size (the 15" is too heavy). An Ipad Pro is IMO the only acceptable hybrid/tablet (but I personally don't use Mac stuff for work) on the market, currently.
- the__alchemist 3y ago
  You can install Linux on a Surface, but there is no good writing software for Linux, but touch and pen support is finicky/complicated.
fsflover 3y ago
> Why can I not get a tablet like that? You can: https://pine64.com/product-category/pinetab/ https://pine64.com/product-category/pinetab/
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Was very enthusiastic to check this out, but then >Resolution: 1280×800 pixels Yeah...I'm out. Even cheapo Android tablets now have 2000x1200 displays. I bought an ARM Windows tablet for 200 Euro and that has a 2880x1920 display. My eyes are grateful when reading text, not going back to displays reporting in inches per pixel. I'm really sad Intel pulled the plug on X86 Atom chips for tablets. It was super easy to boot any OS on them. Unlike ARM tablets.
  - fsflover 3y ago
    There are rumors that Purism are also making a user-respecting tablet.
    - worik 3y ago
      Interested. Do not be a tease, what rumours?
      - fsflover 3y ago
        There is no specific info yet: https://forums.puri.sm/t/h-k-s-purism-librem-16/20174/2 https://forums.puri.sm/t/h-k-s-purism-librem-16/20174/2 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-6-look-ahead-wishlist/18694/146 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-6-look-ahead-wishlist/18694/...
- worik 3y ago
  For fun, I might. But I need a high ed tablet. This one is deliberately not No disrespect to Pine64, the design is not what I need
fweimer 3y ago
In my experience, the issue with tablets running GNU/Linux is not so much hardware driver support, but that the usual desktop just does not support touch input very well. For example, last time I tried, Debian does not build Firefox in such a way that you could use it with a touch screen for scrolling, opening links in new tabs, and so on. Similarly, evince did not properly support navigation in PDF documents. But libinput debugging showed that the software stack was producing touch data that looked quite detailed.
- worik 3y ago
  It was for a project that would have been the only programme running, with ts own bespoke interface Went with the iPad. Yuk

lloeki 3y ago

I presume it's a 6th gen (A10). While A10 phones stopped receiving OS updates with iOS 16, this iPad is still supported by iOS 16. I had an iPhone 7 (same SoC) til early this year with iOS 15 and it was fine (changed because it got physically destroyed); I was never prevented to install any app even though iOS 16 was released well over 6 months before. I have a 7th gen iPad (A10) and iPad Pro 10.5 (A10X) and they both work perfectly fine with iOS 16. In any case, even if it stopped being supported that's a far cry from that aforementioned Pixel situation where it stopped being supported _the next year_.

idoubtit 3y ago
> that aforementioned Pixel situation where it stopped being supported _the next year_. That Pixel (from 2016) did not stop being supported the next year (2017). Android 8 was first released in 2017 and was followed by Android 9 one year later. So it was most recent Android up to 2018. Then it was still supported, since the latest patch for Android 8 was in 2021 and the latest compatible Google Play services release was this month (2023). So the phone and OS are still supported today, but I suppose that circa 2020 (2-3 OS releases later) some applications started requiring a more recent OS.
- scarface74 3y ago
  So in affect it isn’t being supported? Apple supports phones with OS upgrades much longer and then still releases patches for older versions of iOS.
  - m45t3r 3y ago
    I would argue it still is, because I am sure most Android apps still supports Android 9. Google is also much more serious about backward compatibility than Apple, and go a long way to make sure that Android APIs has backwards compatibility between multiple versions of it, see https://developer.android.com/topic/libraries/support-library https://developer.android.com/topic/libraries/support-librar... and https://developer.android.com/jetpack/androidx https://developer.android.com/jetpack/androidx. So as long your device is still receiving security updates, it means you can pretty confidently run the majority of Android apps, even if you're in an older device. This is specially true since essential apps like browsers use their own engine and can receive security updates. This is very different from iOS that once it stops receiving updates, you're pretty much screwed up. Not saying that one approach is better than the other, but both have trade-offs.

0_____0 3y ago

??? I run a 2015 ipad and I haven't run across an app that won't run on it.

jahnu 3y ago

How is that? I have a 2014 iPad Air 2 and while it didn't get the very latest major update it is still getting security and bug fix minor updates for iPadOS 15. And not only that it's still working great and very usable! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_15#Releases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_15#Releases

wodenokoto 3y ago

My iPad 2011 is also obsolete. The screen looks great and it runs both Vlan and iBook just fine, so I can connect it to a PC and move books and videos on it. It’s not great for browsing any more it is still a great study tool (still runs anki, still great for reading) It’s still a good tool, but it has definitely lost features over time.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

My 2019 iPad Pro is kind of obsolete, its battery life isn’t great. But it still does mostly what I need it to do, so I can’t bring myself to buy a new one.

MichaelVangard 3y ago
What does obsolete mean to you? There’s nothing obsolete about a 2019 iPad Pro. It received the most recent iPadOS update and it’ll certainly receive an update to iPadOS 17. The hardware is as good or better than current entry level iPads. The battery should still be good, but maybe yours needs replaced.
- nomel 3y ago
  From people that use these sorts of terms in my life, it's an internal justification to make a new purchase, usually with a payment plan.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Hmm, if that were the case I would have just done it already. But no, I looked at the trade in value for it via Apple's exchange program, and they said...they would be happy to recycle it for me.
    - nomel 3y ago
      I’m not sure I understand. Is your definition of obsolete based on trade in value? What about resale value? What about functionality?
goblin89 3y ago
I own one device that I cannot imagine wanting to upgrade or call “obsolete” in foreseeable future: the 2018[0] 256 GB third generation 13-inch iPad Pro. Granted, in my workflow it faces fewer demands than for example a laptop or phone (I don’t program on iPad or use it for full media production workflow), I don’t rely on it day in day out like I do on those devices, and perhaps I will change my mind once it stops receiving updates, but all of what it needs to do it just does (communication, leisure, music/art playground) and had been doing for years with no noticeable degradation. Somehow I have a soft spot for this particular trusty shiny rectangle. [0] Replaced in 2020 due to no fault of its own but my idiocy that resulted in broken screen. Incidentally, with expired AppleCare+ that cost me around half of the original price. I’m not super wealthy but I don’t regret this specific expense.

mensetmanusman 3y ago

slap it on your refrigerator as a calendar/recipe book.