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Android tablets generally feel overpriced right now for what they offer compared to Apple's ecosystem. There's one exception: Lenovo's last gen pro tablet got a

Android tablets generally feel overpriced right now for what they offer compared to Apple's ecosystem. There's one exception: Lenovo's last gen pro tablet got a small refresh. It's the "Lenovo P11 Pro Gen 2" and it's absurdly affordable compared to the competition right now (~$270). It's got a 120hz OLED display, great general-purpose performance (my previous tablet experience was Samsung's budget S6 Lite, which was a little sluggish and had a worse display.). I'm super happy with my purchase so far. Downside: the compatible pen Precision Pen 3 seems to be unavailable right now. [edit: looks like the price has gone back up to $399 in most places. I'd still consider it a good alternative at that price, but if you can pick it up on sale at under $300 it's a no-brainer]

LoganDark 3y ago
This tablet has a lower pixel density than my desktop. But 120Hz OLED sounds soooo good. I'm almost super sad it's not 4K. Would've been an instant wishlist item then.
- rektide 3y ago
  2560x1536 is 267dpi, which ain't bad. Notebookcheck.net also notes it averages 633 nits brightness, which is superb. That's why I ordered one, to be a better outdoor-capable remote terminal than my oled-but-meh-brighness Samsung Book 12. Hopefully I can run a real Linux at least via KVM on the Lenovo someday!!
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    Yeah it ain't bad, but my desktop has 4K@15.6", which is around 280dpi. Actually smaller gap than I thought, but an 11 inch display is going to be used closer which amplifies it. Brightness and vividness of colors is a huge plus though, OLEDs are amazing. I love them. But it's gotta be 4K. Maybe I am just cursed with above-average vision.
    - mkozlows 3y ago
      There are no tablets that meet your requirements. Apple's iPads are 264 dpi, and have been since the very first Retina tablet.
      - LoganDark 3y ago
        > There are no tablets that meet your requirements. Probably the reason why I don't have one. Aside from money.
    - rektide 3y ago
      I'm a high dpi/tiny font person too. I still use font size 14+ even with a very close to face small display. My belief is that higher dpi isn't useful or necessary. I can read font size 8 on a low dp display fine & not complain. If your display isnt as high dpi as you want, there's almost always plenty of font sizes down you can go & still be fine.
      - LoganDark 3y ago
        Not tiny fonts. Normal sized fonts, but cleaner. More pixels. I like 4K because it's an easy 1080p display but with enough pixels to make everything look way better. And everything divides evenly with a perfect 200% scale factor so I don't get any weird rounding errors. On Android this is much, much less of an issue due to their DIP system, but more pixels still = better, imho.
- flangola7 3y ago
  You sure about that? Desktop resolution is 72 ppi
  - seabrookmx 3y ago
    > Desktop resolution is 72 ppi You have to assume _both_ their screen size and resolution to come up with ppi, so not sure where you're getting 72 from. Speaking for my personal devices, my laptop is 201 ppi and my desktop is a little over half that at 109 (27" 1440p).
  - squeaky-clean 3y ago
    Whose desktop? 72 ppi would be a 1080p screen at 30". Or 1366x768 at 22". That's pretty low ppi even for your average Joe. They also said their desktop. Though I don't know what resolution/size it would be to beat 266 ppi. I'm guessing a 4k laptop screen, as a 4k 24" monitor is only 183ppi.
    - flangola7 3y ago
      This is from a professional design company: >The optimal resolution for images on screen is 72 DPI. Increasing the DPI won’t make the image look any better, it’ll just make the file larger, which will probably slow down the website when it loads or the file when it opens. https://largeprinting.com/resources/image-resolution-and-dpi.html https://largeprinting.com/resources/image-resolution-and-dpi...
      - swores 3y ago
        They seem to be a print company rather than design, which explains why they don't understand DPI for screens. Above all, what DPI looks good enough for humans to notice depends on how close the screen is to the user's eyes, which is why phones tend to have higher DPIs than computer monitors which tens to have higher DPIs than TVs. But even a computer screen at 72 DPI is pretty shit these days.
      - zuminator 3y ago
        As your link points out DPI and PPI aren't really the same thing. DPI has to do with the resolution of the edited/saved image. Usually, it's determined by your editing software. PPI is the physical or effective resolution of your display. You almost definitely want a better than 72ppi display for text work because otherwise fonts will look absurdly pixelated like in the early days of "desktop publishing." I don't think it's even possible anymore to buy a true computer monitor with less than 100ppi, although if you're using an old 768p 49-inch "HDTV" as a PC display it's going to give you something like 32ppi. https://www.sven.de/dpi/ https://www.sven.de/dpi/
- dabernathy89 3y ago
  I would have liked a slightly higher resolution, but the contrast is so good that you really won't notice in most situations. Certainly for media consumption it looks great.
ge96 3y ago
I wish more Android devices had built in lidar
dabernathy89 3y ago
Follow-up: the display on this tablet is not as good as I initially thought. It's great for media consumption but not great for text. Seems to have something to do with the subpixel layout required by the OLED display.
rektide 3y ago
Notably rocking a MediaTek Kompanio 1300T. I feel like for a while Qualcomm was the obly company making chips we see in most tablets. I really hope we see competition open up again; it'd be great for Samsung to get their feed under them, for some new parties to show, and it'll be exciting if AMD gets below their new Z1's 9W TDP & starts competing too. This is a great tablet, bought one for mom & then a couple months latter for me. Alas mine got lost in the mail! Boo.
TechBro8615 3y ago
Is that tablet a loss leader for lenovo? How can they possibly sell a tablet with a 120hz display at a fraction of the price of monitors with such a refresh rate? Would it be possible to remove the screen and plug it into an xbox?
- henryfjordan 3y ago
  Nobody is buying 11" monitors, that's how. Also refresh rate is only one single stat out of dozens you need to consider to price a monitor.
- rektide 3y ago
  "mid range" (but excellent) MediaTek chip probably helps a ton. The screen is great quality oles... it's probably the most expensive part. But what does Lenovo actually pay? To spitball a number, probably like ~$80. I think people don't appreciate how much we are up-sold, over very negligible costs. A huge amount of cheap products exist not because it's really that much cheaper to cut the specs here & there & make a chunky gross form factor, but because the company makes a $1800 model of whatever it is, that they want to push you towards. Lenovo competes in a lot of markets, and I think many of the places they compete are more value oriented than North American type markets. I think that in part is why Lenovo came up with such a well balanced product; picking intelligently how to build a great product at a reasonable price.
- dabernathy89 3y ago
  I think they're trying to dump their stock since the P12 is out now?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
ehsankia 3y ago
> for what they offer compared to Apple's ecosystem Yet after over a decade, iPads still don't support multiple profiles for a device that's very often used in a household by multiple people. Something that this very first generation Pixel Tablet does.
- Bloating 3y ago
  Literally nobody needs this... until Apple "invents" it
- foverzar 3y ago
  Wonder who downvotes this. The sole reason why I chose samsung tab over iPad is that iPad is essentially useless as a shared family device - the UX of switching accounts inside apps is just terrible. Tablet should definitely be a multiuser device and it's kinda stupid that Apple actually has multiple accounts functionality, but it only works for school or enterprise.
  - sumedh 3y ago
    > it's kinda stupid that Apple Its marketing, by locking that feature you are forced to buy more iPads for other family members.
    - RhodesianHunter 3y ago
      Yeah, honestly it probably forces more sales than it prevents people from buying ipads at all.
    - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
      > you are forced to buy more iPads for other family members Who does this? 5% of consumers? I think they-misestimate anyone's desire to be wastefull, both ecologically and financially.
      - solarkraft 3y ago
        Their assumption may not apply to you, but I assure you that Mr. Apple himself has considered this possibility and allocated a significant amount of resources to finding the most profitable solution.
moffkalast 3y ago
> it's absurdly affordable compared to the competition right now (~$270). Ipads are even cheaper at around $210 I think? I don't think it's possible to get an Android tablet of that screen size for anywhere close. It's sort of weird how Apple overprices all of their stuff except tablets. Then again, then you have to deal with the ATS nonsense which is hell for local web dev without https.
- lajupechere 3y ago
  They completely over priced the keyboards, though, it’s kind of incredible. If you want to close the gap between tablet and laptop, you’re going to pay laptop prices.
  - Gigachad 3y ago
    Well, the ipad pro has pretty much the same internals so it's not surprising when you spec it to be similar to a laptop, it costs similarly.
- dabernathy89 3y ago
  Cheapest new ipad is $270, but the base model will have a worse screen. Of course you'll still get all the awesome iPad apps you can't get on Android.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Gigachad 3y ago
    Getting a second hand ipad is a lot more viable than on Android. Apple keeps these things updated for about 6-7 years and they feel super fresh the whole time. While my experience is that Android tablets feel a little clunky brand new, and then go downhill fast after only getting a years updates.
godelski 3y ago
Also, where the hell is the pencil? Seriously, that is one of the big edges to iPads. I'll complain that the pencil should do more but the only reason they are getting away with that is that there's no decent option outside. The other thing I use a lot is the screen sharing (second monitor) and air drop (Google has an air drop alternative). Google is catching up on the aesthetic side that Apple did well but I'm often surprised at missing features. Tbh, I can say this about a lot of ecosystems so this isn't that harsh of a criticism. Though I have to ask what all these engineers are doing if we're not developing new features, even low hanging fruit.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- andrewaylett 3y ago
  You can use any USI 2.0 stylus with it.
arvinsim 3y ago
I wonder if there is a cheaper portable monitor version of that tablet.
- creshal 3y ago
  Lenovo has the M14 series of portable monitors, which is fairly cheap.
Frotag 3y ago
The specs are nice on paper but even at 60Hz and minimal brightness, the battery on my brand new one barely lasts 2-3 hours when just using the browser. It'll even drain completely if I leave it on standby for a few days. There's also a serious red tint to the screen [0]. [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/Lenovo/comments/zmht0j/lenovo_p11_pro_gen_2_tablet_uneven_redtinted/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Lenovo/comments/zmht0j/lenovo_p11_p...
- dabernathy89 3y ago
  Sounds like something funky is going on... I just flew to/from Europe and I watched many hours of HDR content on mine, and the battery was fine.
krzyk 3y ago
In my country it has comparable price to Pixel tablet. BTW. Is there a good tablet that has a screen that one can comfortably keep in hands, like around 8 inches?
- mcintyre1994 3y ago
  I’d guess that iPad mini is the best option there, it’s 8.3 inches. Compared to the current gen Air it has an A15 instead of M1 and doesn’t have the same accessories support, but otherwise looks very similarly specced.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
unstuck3958 3y ago
> Android tablets generally feel overpriced right now for what they offer compared to Apple's ecosystem. Is this a US-only thing? I have not been actively looking into the latest Android offering, but I got my sister a Xiaomi Pad 5 [1] two years ago, which I believe delivered much more value at that time compared to the latest iPad 10.2 I owned, at a slightly cheaper price too. [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/xiaomi-gets-back-into-android-tablets-with-an-ipad-pro-clone/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/xiaomi-gets-back-int...
- not_your_vase 3y ago
  I'm in Europe, and also believe that iPads are unbeatable when talking about price - in both nominal and price/value ratio sense. I have been an iPad user for over a decade. 2 years ago I was shopping for a new tablet. I went to a local electronics shop trying some of them out: the affordable (~300 EUR for me) Lenovo, Huawei and Samsung ones all stuttered even in their own setting menu. The high end Samsungs were nice - starting at 600EUR. Settled for a base iPad for 300 EUR. I hate Apple, but iPads are literally cheap, have good performance, and offer more than magnified phone applications, even with the crappy iOS.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    And iPads get about 5 years of major version updates. The 600€ high end Samsung will maybe get one Android OS update.
    - grumpyprole 3y ago
      This is FUD. Samsung promise 5 years of security updates and 4 OS updates: https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-sets-the-new-standard-with-four-generations-of-os-upgrades-to-ensure-the-most-up-to-date-and-more-secure-galaxy-experience https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-sets-the-new-standar...
      - theshrike79 3y ago
        It's not FUD. Apple has _delivered_ updates for multiple generations of devices for 5+ years. Samsung has promised to update for 4 OS versions. They haven't delivered anything yet. We'll see in 2027 if they can actually deliver.

LoganDark 3y ago

This tablet has a lower pixel density than my desktop. But 120Hz OLED sounds soooo good. I'm almost super sad it's not 4K. Would've been an instant wishlist item then.

rektide 3y ago
2560x1536 is 267dpi, which ain't bad. Notebookcheck.net also notes it averages 633 nits brightness, which is superb. That's why I ordered one, to be a better outdoor-capable remote terminal than my oled-but-meh-brighness Samsung Book 12. Hopefully I can run a real Linux at least via KVM on the Lenovo someday!!
- LoganDark 3y ago
  Yeah it ain't bad, but my desktop has 4K@15.6", which is around 280dpi. Actually smaller gap than I thought, but an 11 inch display is going to be used closer which amplifies it. Brightness and vividness of colors is a huge plus though, OLEDs are amazing. I love them. But it's gotta be 4K. Maybe I am just cursed with above-average vision.
  - mkozlows 3y ago
    There are no tablets that meet your requirements. Apple's iPads are 264 dpi, and have been since the very first Retina tablet.
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      > There are no tablets that meet your requirements. Probably the reason why I don't have one. Aside from money.
  - rektide 3y ago
    I'm a high dpi/tiny font person too. I still use font size 14+ even with a very close to face small display. My belief is that higher dpi isn't useful or necessary. I can read font size 8 on a low dp display fine & not complain. If your display isnt as high dpi as you want, there's almost always plenty of font sizes down you can go & still be fine.
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      Not tiny fonts. Normal sized fonts, but cleaner. More pixels. I like 4K because it's an easy 1080p display but with enough pixels to make everything look way better. And everything divides evenly with a perfect 200% scale factor so I don't get any weird rounding errors. On Android this is much, much less of an issue due to their DIP system, but more pixels still = better, imho.
flangola7 3y ago
You sure about that? Desktop resolution is 72 ppi
- seabrookmx 3y ago
  > Desktop resolution is 72 ppi You have to assume _both_ their screen size and resolution to come up with ppi, so not sure where you're getting 72 from. Speaking for my personal devices, my laptop is 201 ppi and my desktop is a little over half that at 109 (27" 1440p).
- squeaky-clean 3y ago
  Whose desktop? 72 ppi would be a 1080p screen at 30". Or 1366x768 at 22". That's pretty low ppi even for your average Joe. They also said their desktop. Though I don't know what resolution/size it would be to beat 266 ppi. I'm guessing a 4k laptop screen, as a 4k 24" monitor is only 183ppi.
  - flangola7 3y ago
    This is from a professional design company: >The optimal resolution for images on screen is 72 DPI. Increasing the DPI won’t make the image look any better, it’ll just make the file larger, which will probably slow down the website when it loads or the file when it opens. https://largeprinting.com/resources/image-resolution-and-dpi.html https://largeprinting.com/resources/image-resolution-and-dpi...
    - swores 3y ago
      They seem to be a print company rather than design, which explains why they don't understand DPI for screens. Above all, what DPI looks good enough for humans to notice depends on how close the screen is to the user's eyes, which is why phones tend to have higher DPIs than computer monitors which tens to have higher DPIs than TVs. But even a computer screen at 72 DPI is pretty shit these days.
    - zuminator 3y ago
      As your link points out DPI and PPI aren't really the same thing. DPI has to do with the resolution of the edited/saved image. Usually, it's determined by your editing software. PPI is the physical or effective resolution of your display. You almost definitely want a better than 72ppi display for text work because otherwise fonts will look absurdly pixelated like in the early days of "desktop publishing." I don't think it's even possible anymore to buy a true computer monitor with less than 100ppi, although if you're using an old 768p 49-inch "HDTV" as a PC display it's going to give you something like 32ppi. https://www.sven.de/dpi/ https://www.sven.de/dpi/
dabernathy89 3y ago
I would have liked a slightly higher resolution, but the contrast is so good that you really won't notice in most situations. Certainly for media consumption it looks great.

ge96 3y ago

I wish more Android devices had built in lidar

dabernathy89 3y ago

Follow-up: the display on this tablet is not as good as I initially thought. It's great for media consumption but not great for text. Seems to have something to do with the subpixel layout required by the OLED display.

rektide 3y ago

Notably rocking a MediaTek Kompanio 1300T. I feel like for a while Qualcomm was the obly company making chips we see in most tablets. I really hope we see competition open up again; it'd be great for Samsung to get their feed under them, for some new parties to show, and it'll be exciting if AMD gets below their new Z1's 9W TDP & starts competing too. This is a great tablet, bought one for mom & then a couple months latter for me. Alas mine got lost in the mail! Boo.

TechBro8615 3y ago

Is that tablet a loss leader for lenovo? How can they possibly sell a tablet with a 120hz display at a fraction of the price of monitors with such a refresh rate? Would it be possible to remove the screen and plug it into an xbox?

henryfjordan 3y ago
Nobody is buying 11" monitors, that's how. Also refresh rate is only one single stat out of dozens you need to consider to price a monitor.
rektide 3y ago
"mid range" (but excellent) MediaTek chip probably helps a ton. The screen is great quality oles... it's probably the most expensive part. But what does Lenovo actually pay? To spitball a number, probably like ~$80. I think people don't appreciate how much we are up-sold, over very negligible costs. A huge amount of cheap products exist not because it's really that much cheaper to cut the specs here & there & make a chunky gross form factor, but because the company makes a $1800 model of whatever it is, that they want to push you towards. Lenovo competes in a lot of markets, and I think many of the places they compete are more value oriented than North American type markets. I think that in part is why Lenovo came up with such a well balanced product; picking intelligently how to build a great product at a reasonable price.
dabernathy89 3y ago
I think they're trying to dump their stock since the P12 is out now?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

ehsankia 3y ago

> for what they offer compared to Apple's ecosystem Yet after over a decade, iPads still don't support multiple profiles for a device that's very often used in a household by multiple people. Something that this very first generation Pixel Tablet does.

Bloating 3y ago
Literally nobody needs this... until Apple "invents" it
foverzar 3y ago
Wonder who downvotes this. The sole reason why I chose samsung tab over iPad is that iPad is essentially useless as a shared family device - the UX of switching accounts inside apps is just terrible. Tablet should definitely be a multiuser device and it's kinda stupid that Apple actually has multiple accounts functionality, but it only works for school or enterprise.
- sumedh 3y ago
  > it's kinda stupid that Apple Its marketing, by locking that feature you are forced to buy more iPads for other family members.
  - RhodesianHunter 3y ago
    Yeah, honestly it probably forces more sales than it prevents people from buying ipads at all.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > you are forced to buy more iPads for other family members Who does this? 5% of consumers? I think they-misestimate anyone's desire to be wastefull, both ecologically and financially.
    - solarkraft 3y ago
      Their assumption may not apply to you, but I assure you that Mr. Apple himself has considered this possibility and allocated a significant amount of resources to finding the most profitable solution.

moffkalast 3y ago

> it's absurdly affordable compared to the competition right now (~$270). Ipads are even cheaper at around $210 I think? I don't think it's possible to get an Android tablet of that screen size for anywhere close. It's sort of weird how Apple overprices all of their stuff except tablets. Then again, then you have to deal with the ATS nonsense which is hell for local web dev without https.

lajupechere 3y ago
They completely over priced the keyboards, though, it’s kind of incredible. If you want to close the gap between tablet and laptop, you’re going to pay laptop prices.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  Well, the ipad pro has pretty much the same internals so it's not surprising when you spec it to be similar to a laptop, it costs similarly.
dabernathy89 3y ago
Cheapest new ipad is $270, but the base model will have a worse screen. Of course you'll still get all the awesome iPad apps you can't get on Android.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Gigachad 3y ago
  Getting a second hand ipad is a lot more viable than on Android. Apple keeps these things updated for about 6-7 years and they feel super fresh the whole time. While my experience is that Android tablets feel a little clunky brand new, and then go downhill fast after only getting a years updates.

godelski 3y ago

Also, where the hell is the pencil? Seriously, that is one of the big edges to iPads. I'll complain that the pencil should do more but the only reason they are getting away with that is that there's no decent option outside. The other thing I use a lot is the screen sharing (second monitor) and air drop (Google has an air drop alternative). Google is catching up on the aesthetic side that Apple did well but I'm often surprised at missing features. Tbh, I can say this about a lot of ecosystems so this isn't that harsh of a criticism. Though I have to ask what all these engineers are doing if we're not developing new features, even low hanging fruit.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
andrewaylett 3y ago
You can use any USI 2.0 stylus with it.

arvinsim 3y ago

I wonder if there is a cheaper portable monitor version of that tablet.

creshal 3y ago
Lenovo has the M14 series of portable monitors, which is fairly cheap.

Frotag 3y ago

The specs are nice on paper but even at 60Hz and minimal brightness, the battery on my brand new one barely lasts 2-3 hours when just using the browser. It'll even drain completely if I leave it on standby for a few days. There's also a serious red tint to the screen [0]. [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/Lenovo/comments/zmht0j/lenovo_p11_pro_gen_2_tablet_uneven_redtinted/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Lenovo/comments/zmht0j/lenovo_p11_p...

dabernathy89 3y ago
Sounds like something funky is going on... I just flew to/from Europe and I watched many hours of HDR content on mine, and the battery was fine.

krzyk 3y ago

In my country it has comparable price to Pixel tablet. BTW. Is there a good tablet that has a screen that one can comfortably keep in hands, like around 8 inches?

mcintyre1994 3y ago
I’d guess that iPad mini is the best option there, it’s 8.3 inches. Compared to the current gen Air it has an A15 instead of M1 and doesn’t have the same accessories support, but otherwise looks very similarly specced.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

unstuck3958 3y ago

> Android tablets generally feel overpriced right now for what they offer compared to Apple's ecosystem. Is this a US-only thing? I have not been actively looking into the latest Android offering, but I got my sister a Xiaomi Pad 5 [1] two years ago, which I believe delivered much more value at that time compared to the latest iPad 10.2 I owned, at a slightly cheaper price too. [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/xiaomi-gets-back-into-android-tablets-with-an-ipad-pro-clone/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/xiaomi-gets-back-int...

not_your_vase 3y ago
I'm in Europe, and also believe that iPads are unbeatable when talking about price - in both nominal and price/value ratio sense. I have been an iPad user for over a decade. 2 years ago I was shopping for a new tablet. I went to a local electronics shop trying some of them out: the affordable (~300 EUR for me) Lenovo, Huawei and Samsung ones all stuttered even in their own setting menu. The high end Samsungs were nice - starting at 600EUR. Settled for a base iPad for 300 EUR. I hate Apple, but iPads are literally cheap, have good performance, and offer more than magnified phone applications, even with the crappy iOS.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  And iPads get about 5 years of major version updates. The 600€ high end Samsung will maybe get one Android OS update.
  - grumpyprole 3y ago
    This is FUD. Samsung promise 5 years of security updates and 4 OS updates: https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-sets-the-new-standard-with-four-generations-of-os-upgrades-to-ensure-the-most-up-to-date-and-more-secure-galaxy-experience https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-sets-the-new-standar...
    - theshrike79 3y ago
      It's not FUD. Apple has _delivered_ updates for multiple generations of devices for 5+ years. Samsung has promised to update for 4 OS versions. They haven't delivered anything yet. We'll see in 2027 if they can actually deliver.