6 ms·

This will get big pretty soon. It's been a trend for a while, my last few jobs we've had LATAM contractors. No time zone issues like with overseas and much less

This will get big pretty soon. It's been a trend for a while, my last few jobs we've had LATAM contractors. No time zone issues like with overseas and much less of a language and cultural barrier, like basically nonexistent compared to India. Average skill of LATAM devs is still low compared to the US, but they will learn and grow as more work moves there.

mmaia 3y ago
> Average skill of LATAM devs is still low compared to the US I'd say it is a sample bias of the developers working as contractors (average devs with good enough English). Top LATAM talent moves abroad or works as employees at international companies that pay way more than nearshores.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  I worked with great LATAM talent, but they weren't contractors, they were at Auth0 (founded by an Argentinian, incidentally).
- ldec 3y ago
  There is a lot of top Latam talent who want to stay in Latam because of family and culture issues, and also because earning in US$ while working remote from Latin America can provide a much higher quality of life than you would be able to get in the US.
  - mmaia 3y ago
    Yes, that's actually my case. But, getting a salary on par with your skill set may require you to work directly with the employer or a lot of negotiation. I've seen cases of top developers earning almost 50% less than their peers because they were hired via subcontractors.
- fernandotakai 3y ago
  i consider myself a good developer. when i was working as contractor for us companies, my fees were on par with my US colleagues (low six digits USD). but it was not worth it for me to keep doing it, so i moved to europe (which was also quite easy given my resume).
  - moneywoes 3y ago
    Can you please provide more detail on why? I would’ve figured it would be an amazing situation being in lcol earning a lot
local_crmdgeon 3y ago
Agreed. The skill isn't even an issue - you just hire them for the right roles. Having the same definition of "no" as Americans is huge. Indians have a really tough time saying something isn't going well, or that we shouldn't do a project, for cultural reasons. That's great! Culture is great. For work though, something closer to the culture of the outsourcer makes it a lot easier to deal with. Flights are also so much easier, everyone I know speaks at least SOME Spanish (unlike Hindi/Tamil/Tagalog for the other big destinations) and that helps rough out the edges a LOT. I'd bet on Mexico, hard, right now. Same with BA and Colombia.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  100%! I've worked with a ton of great Indian folks, but the "no" cultural translation is hard. Just yesterday I was working through an issue, came up with a clear plan that critically involved notifying the customer before making any changes, after they'd been burned by previous uncommunicated changes. Was in the middle of a busy day, so I didn't think and quickly asked if there were any problems or everyone was onboard with the plan: "Yes." 5 minutes later, as I'm typing an email to the customer, I get pinged: "The changes have been implemented. Kindly confirm with the customer they took effect as desired." FML. My fault... but really hard to keep yes/no mapping in my head constantly, at all times.
  - peteradio 3y ago
    I don't understand what your alternative was? How was this your fault?
    - jghn 3y ago
      If you're aware of the situation you can change the questions you ask and how you probe in to account for the difference in "no" in order to get to the truth. I believe they're saying that due to them being busy they didn't think about it at the time even though they should've known better.
      - 3y ago
theryan 3y ago
At a previous company we had some contractors from Brazil and I was really quite impressed. Super knowledgeable and it was great not having a huge language barrier.
- Jcampuzano2 3y ago
  At my current company we started doing hiring in Brazil, and a few in Colombia. In both cases they are in general pretty exceptional devs. I have spent a lot of time in Colombia myself and there is a boom in entrepreneurship and tech in my opinion there (and not just among expats since there are plenty there). I can only assume the same of places like Brazil as well. My last job we also worked with devs from Mexico, and same thing. I have worked with some great Indian colleagues but I would say in general I work a lot easier with devs from Latin America compared to overseas. Though I am a bit biased since I speak Spanish myself at a C1 level. Rarely do I really need to flip to Spanish for anything but it helps to be able to bridge the cultural gap.
MPlus88 3y ago
[dead]
heyjamesknight 3y ago
It's pretty big now. Uruguay's entire tech labor pool has been consumed by nearshoring agencies. Competition in Argentina and Colombia is catching up. Disagree on skill level. The average US dev is pretty bad. Most of us on HN just have the privilege of working at 1% companies with 1% developers. Those same people exist in LATAM, they're just 1% of the population there too!
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  Yes yes yes. This also is why devs in places like India working at body shops like TCS aren't great - MS etc have sucked up all the best talent. Worked with the Office team in ... Bengaluru? Fantastic engineers.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
red-iron-pine 3y ago
Same. Been seeing a lot of stuff operating out of Mexico City, and to a lesser extent, Greater Baja California for West Coast timezones. Did several projects with Mexican PMs but Chilean or Uruguayan support, esp. out of the Zona America in Uruguay. On top of all of the reasons mentioned, Mexico is also attractive due to the NAFTA TN Visa, which makes it fairly easy to bring a resource across the border. Basically just need a valid job offer, enough experience and qualifications to check the box, and a fairly trivial application fee. No H1B nonsense, and quick turnaround. I'd also disagree with the low skill of LATAM devs, I found they were generally pretty good compared to India or PI. If we had an SAP expert in MX we could feel pretty confident they'd know their stuff, while Tata or Cognizant would scrounge up anyone who could spell SAP and try to convince us they were qualified.

mmaia 3y ago

> Average skill of LATAM devs is still low compared to the US I'd say it is a sample bias of the developers working as contractors (average devs with good enough English). Top LATAM talent moves abroad or works as employees at international companies that pay way more than nearshores.

CalRobert 3y ago
I worked with great LATAM talent, but they weren't contractors, they were at Auth0 (founded by an Argentinian, incidentally).
ldec 3y ago
There is a lot of top Latam talent who want to stay in Latam because of family and culture issues, and also because earning in US$ while working remote from Latin America can provide a much higher quality of life than you would be able to get in the US.
- mmaia 3y ago
  Yes, that's actually my case. But, getting a salary on par with your skill set may require you to work directly with the employer or a lot of negotiation. I've seen cases of top developers earning almost 50% less than their peers because they were hired via subcontractors.
fernandotakai 3y ago
i consider myself a good developer. when i was working as contractor for us companies, my fees were on par with my US colleagues (low six digits USD). but it was not worth it for me to keep doing it, so i moved to europe (which was also quite easy given my resume).
- moneywoes 3y ago
  Can you please provide more detail on why? I would’ve figured it would be an amazing situation being in lcol earning a lot

local_crmdgeon 3y ago

Agreed. The skill isn't even an issue - you just hire them for the right roles. Having the same definition of "no" as Americans is huge. Indians have a really tough time saying something isn't going well, or that we shouldn't do a project, for cultural reasons. That's great! Culture is great. For work though, something closer to the culture of the outsourcer makes it a lot easier to deal with. Flights are also so much easier, everyone I know speaks at least SOME Spanish (unlike Hindi/Tamil/Tagalog for the other big destinations) and that helps rough out the edges a LOT. I'd bet on Mexico, hard, right now. Same with BA and Colombia.

ethbr0 3y ago
100%! I've worked with a ton of great Indian folks, but the "no" cultural translation is hard. Just yesterday I was working through an issue, came up with a clear plan that critically involved notifying the customer before making any changes, after they'd been burned by previous uncommunicated changes. Was in the middle of a busy day, so I didn't think and quickly asked if there were any problems or everyone was onboard with the plan: "Yes." 5 minutes later, as I'm typing an email to the customer, I get pinged: "The changes have been implemented. Kindly confirm with the customer they took effect as desired." FML. My fault... but really hard to keep yes/no mapping in my head constantly, at all times.
- peteradio 3y ago
  I don't understand what your alternative was? How was this your fault?
  - jghn 3y ago
    If you're aware of the situation you can change the questions you ask and how you probe in to account for the difference in "no" in order to get to the truth. I believe they're saying that due to them being busy they didn't think about it at the time even though they should've known better.
    - 3y ago

theryan 3y ago

At a previous company we had some contractors from Brazil and I was really quite impressed. Super knowledgeable and it was great not having a huge language barrier.

Jcampuzano2 3y ago
At my current company we started doing hiring in Brazil, and a few in Colombia. In both cases they are in general pretty exceptional devs. I have spent a lot of time in Colombia myself and there is a boom in entrepreneurship and tech in my opinion there (and not just among expats since there are plenty there). I can only assume the same of places like Brazil as well. My last job we also worked with devs from Mexico, and same thing. I have worked with some great Indian colleagues but I would say in general I work a lot easier with devs from Latin America compared to overseas. Though I am a bit biased since I speak Spanish myself at a C1 level. Rarely do I really need to flip to Spanish for anything but it helps to be able to bridge the cultural gap.

MPlus88 3y ago

[dead]

heyjamesknight 3y ago

It's pretty big now. Uruguay's entire tech labor pool has been consumed by nearshoring agencies. Competition in Argentina and Colombia is catching up. Disagree on skill level. The average US dev is pretty bad. Most of us on HN just have the privilege of working at 1% companies with 1% developers. Those same people exist in LATAM, they're just 1% of the population there too!

local_crmdgeon 3y ago
Yes yes yes. This also is why devs in places like India working at body shops like TCS aren't great - MS etc have sucked up all the best talent. Worked with the Office team in ... Bengaluru? Fantastic engineers.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

red-iron-pine 3y ago

Same. Been seeing a lot of stuff operating out of Mexico City, and to a lesser extent, Greater Baja California for West Coast timezones. Did several projects with Mexican PMs but Chilean or Uruguayan support, esp. out of the Zona America in Uruguay. On top of all of the reasons mentioned, Mexico is also attractive due to the NAFTA TN Visa, which makes it fairly easy to bring a resource across the border. Basically just need a valid job offer, enough experience and qualifications to check the box, and a fairly trivial application fee. No H1B nonsense, and quick turnaround. I'd also disagree with the low skill of LATAM devs, I found they were generally pretty good compared to India or PI. If we had an SAP expert in MX we could feel pretty confident they'd know their stuff, while Tata or Cognizant would scrounge up anyone who could spell SAP and try to convince us they were qualified.