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I actually dated a med student all through medical school and thus made a huge social circle of doctors I've kept in touch with for over a decade as they all be

I actually dated a med student all through medical school and thus made a huge social circle of doctors I've kept in touch with for over a decade as they all became doctors and now have almost a decade of experience too. I'd say about half want to help, but can not due to the system. The other half enjoy maximizing their income through the system and don't care either. So that leaves very very few that are actually able and willing to actually help an average person. Now, do they help their family and close friends? Yes, as much as they still care to and remember how to. Which isn't at a very high level either IMO. Recent example, my friend dislocated his shoulder. Immediately was recommended to have surgery and attempts were made to schedule. With his insurance, he'd have to come out of pocket $7500, which he doesn't really have. I told him I know many motorcyclists at the pro level that dislocate shoulders in crashes, and without surgery are back competing on the bike. Only a handful have surgery to repair it, usually to stop it from reoccurring (since they crash often). He pressed his doctor on if he really needs the surgery and for an explanation why many athletes don't have it done and what the reasoning for auto recommending him to get it done. Their tone instantly shifted and he chose to wait it out. Shoulder back to normal now. Thousands saved, and potential medical mistakes saved during the surgery.

pvaldes 3y ago
Shoulder surgery should not be delayed. The probable retraction of some damaged parts is not a joke. Your friend could have been the lucky one in the pool, but there is also a possibility that in a few years the problem will grow and the surgery required will be much heavier and expensive. > and without surgery are back competing on the bike. My bet is that they are on painkillers for life
- InitialLastName 3y ago
  > My bet is that they are on painkillers for life Also, they are professional athletes at the peak of their bodies' physical fitness capacity with teams of doctors, physical therapists, and trainers looking after their health with a focus that few of us can imagine, and an overriding ethos of sacrificing their future health on the altar of present performance. In general, professional athletes' healthcare decisions should probably not be used as a gauge for healthcare decisions by people with priorities other than "maximal physical performance right this moment".
  - nicenewtemp84 3y ago
    If a group of great doctors lets people crashing at 180mph ride again without surgery after a shoulder dislocation, doesnt that mean that maybe his doctor in nonametown USA might be able to learn a thing or two from them? Or are they just trying to keep their operating room billing hours maxed out? I guess we won't know for sure but I have a hunch.
    - pvaldes 3y ago
      Sure. That doctor could suggest his patients to wear kevlar reinforced biker jackets all the time.
      - nicenewtemp84 3y ago
        A kevlar jacket isn't going to help stop your shoulder from dislocating as your flail around tumbling end over end at 100mph.. which is what dislocated the shoulder in the first place.
- nicenewtemp84 3y ago
  Are you saying that the doctor, upon closer questioning simply flopped and gave bad medical advice to my friend when they told him that yes it's reasonable to expect to regain full shoulder straight again without surgery? Because if so maybe my friend should sue? What is this blanket statement of "shoulder surgery should not be delayed" based on?
  - jjeaff 3y ago
    Doctors will often change their recommendation if patients express different priorities than the doctor initially assumed. Some people's priorities are no surgery unless absolutely necessary.
    - chii 3y ago
      > Some people's priorities are no surgery unless absolutely necessary. which is a good general rule to go by - surgery is not without dangers. The doctor's role, imho, is to firstly explain all of the available options (pros, cons, etc). Once the patient understands all of the options, the doctor can recommend one of them, and explain why the option is good. The patient needs to evaluate the other options as well, and think about whether the doctor's recommendation is sound, and what assumptions they might've made (may be unknowingly). The patient is not, and should not be, a passive party to medical treatment.
    - lynx23 3y ago
      "no surgery unless absolutely necessary" is becoming the default around here, because the number of hospital-acquired infections is skyrocketing in the last years. While there were absolutely no anecdotes before 2017, the number of people infected in the hospital in my circles has exploded since then. People are talking about it, and realising that going to the hospital has a real risk of making things even worse.
  - KiwiJohnno 3y ago
    Where I grew up, with a comprehensive taxpayer funded healthcare system that works I believe standard is you are given the option of surgery after dislocating your shoulder 3 times. The thinking is a lot of people dislocate their shoulder, it pops back in with or without help and heals with no long-term damage. For a lot of patients it never happens again and surgery is not needed. However, each time you dislocate your shoulder it gets easier to dislocate and is more likely to do doing damage that won't heal. So, don't go in for shoulder surgery until you are showing a pattern of dislocating it or have other lasting damage that requires repair.

pvaldes 3y ago

Shoulder surgery should not be delayed. The probable retraction of some damaged parts is not a joke. Your friend could have been the lucky one in the pool, but there is also a possibility that in a few years the problem will grow and the surgery required will be much heavier and expensive. > and without surgery are back competing on the bike. My bet is that they are on painkillers for life

InitialLastName 3y ago
> My bet is that they are on painkillers for life Also, they are professional athletes at the peak of their bodies' physical fitness capacity with teams of doctors, physical therapists, and trainers looking after their health with a focus that few of us can imagine, and an overriding ethos of sacrificing their future health on the altar of present performance. In general, professional athletes' healthcare decisions should probably not be used as a gauge for healthcare decisions by people with priorities other than "maximal physical performance right this moment".
- nicenewtemp84 3y ago
  If a group of great doctors lets people crashing at 180mph ride again without surgery after a shoulder dislocation, doesnt that mean that maybe his doctor in nonametown USA might be able to learn a thing or two from them? Or are they just trying to keep their operating room billing hours maxed out? I guess we won't know for sure but I have a hunch.
  - pvaldes 3y ago
    Sure. That doctor could suggest his patients to wear kevlar reinforced biker jackets all the time.
    - nicenewtemp84 3y ago
      A kevlar jacket isn't going to help stop your shoulder from dislocating as your flail around tumbling end over end at 100mph.. which is what dislocated the shoulder in the first place.
nicenewtemp84 3y ago
Are you saying that the doctor, upon closer questioning simply flopped and gave bad medical advice to my friend when they told him that yes it's reasonable to expect to regain full shoulder straight again without surgery? Because if so maybe my friend should sue? What is this blanket statement of "shoulder surgery should not be delayed" based on?
- jjeaff 3y ago
  Doctors will often change their recommendation if patients express different priorities than the doctor initially assumed. Some people's priorities are no surgery unless absolutely necessary.
  - chii 3y ago
    > Some people's priorities are no surgery unless absolutely necessary. which is a good general rule to go by - surgery is not without dangers. The doctor's role, imho, is to firstly explain all of the available options (pros, cons, etc). Once the patient understands all of the options, the doctor can recommend one of them, and explain why the option is good. The patient needs to evaluate the other options as well, and think about whether the doctor's recommendation is sound, and what assumptions they might've made (may be unknowingly). The patient is not, and should not be, a passive party to medical treatment.
  - lynx23 3y ago
    "no surgery unless absolutely necessary" is becoming the default around here, because the number of hospital-acquired infections is skyrocketing in the last years. While there were absolutely no anecdotes before 2017, the number of people infected in the hospital in my circles has exploded since then. People are talking about it, and realising that going to the hospital has a real risk of making things even worse.
- KiwiJohnno 3y ago
  Where I grew up, with a comprehensive taxpayer funded healthcare system that works I believe standard is you are given the option of surgery after dislocating your shoulder 3 times. The thinking is a lot of people dislocate their shoulder, it pops back in with or without help and heals with no long-term damage. For a lot of patients it never happens again and surgery is not needed. However, each time you dislocate your shoulder it gets easier to dislocate and is more likely to do doing damage that won't heal. So, don't go in for shoulder surgery until you are showing a pattern of dislocating it or have other lasting damage that requires repair.