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Show HN: Engineering Book Club
An online community that enjoys reading and discussing engineering books together.
- calculated 3y agoYou’re kidding right? Charging 50 euro for access to basically a Discord, Slack, etc. channel.
- theshrike79 3y agoAlso: Spaces are limited to 30 spots. I can create a free Discord for this right now and it'll cost me (and the people joining it) exactly 0€
- miguelbemartin 3y agoWe want to initially limit only to 30 spots to see how we could manage the community and the online events. We will evaluate if it makes sense to open more spots in the future. The idea is to create "online coffee chats" where everyone is able to participate. I have used Circle with other communities and I can say that the experience is much better than using slack or discord.
- pessimizer 3y ago> I can create a free Discord for this right now and it'll cost me (and the people joining it) exactly 0€ But the reality is that you haven't.
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- maccard 3y agoGreat, where's your discord link?
- miguelbemartin 3y agoThe concept of paying to be part of a community is not new, you can find many communities that charge more than 5€/month. You can find some examples here: https://community.circle.so/c/showcase/ https://community.circle.so/c/showcase/ We are using Circle for organising it and it costs us money, additionally, it will also take time to organise and moderate the community. I also believe that paying for something brings more commitment, so this is why we have decided to introduce a small fee for joining the community.
- mattgreenrocks 3y ago> I also believe that paying for something brings more commitment, so this is why we have decided to introduce a small fee for joining the community. Absolutely. People that are willing to pay are more serious and generally more likely to positively contribute. Paying is a way to signal that to oneself, even.
- mtlynch 3y agoIt takes a lot of work to manage an online community well. 50 EUR/year is probably lower than the true cost.
- miguelbemartin 3y agoAgree, I have been organising local Meetups in the past and I know how much time it takes.
- jacurtis 3y agoThis group is limited to 30 people. It's not a subreddit with tens of thousands of users. It is 30 people. If someone's an asshole you ban them. It's hardly a fulltime job. The fact that you took their money could actually complicate your ability to ban them if they really get upset. I have discord servers of gaming friends that have as many people. I've also managed game servers (like Ark servers) with hundreds of strangers. It's not that bad. Bad people venture in sometimes and you just kick them out. Small communities like this mostly self-regulate because they are so small, people's individual reputation actually means something.
- jacobrussell 3y agoThe best book clubs I've been in are ones where the members had to pay something to be in it. I think everything should be done to get the people who sign up to actually show up and participate, and part of that equation is usually charging everyone a little bit, especially if the people in the group aren't already friends.
- gppeixoto 3y agoThere are actual people working to curate the content, manage the community, etc. And as such, they charge an amount for the work they're doing. If you think the price does not meet the value, then you can... just not pay it.
- leglock 3y agoAre people actually curating the content? The website sounds like the members are the ones suggesting books. It is unclear to me what managing needs to be done if the members are pairing up on their own.
- mysterydip 3y agoSomeone has to manage the membership fees, naturally.
- mattgreenrocks 3y agoThis is the business version of, "well actually I could do this in a weekend." The potential for one decent connection for future jobs/coworkers (referral bonuses!)/cofounders is very high with something like this. 50 euro is fine. If it's too high, the market will signal that. If it isn't, it will fill up.
- pessimizer 3y agoIf we ever get proper privacy legislation, or harsher penalties for companies that get hacked and lose customer data, or anything that blocks widespread data collection and monetization, you'll be paying 50 bucks a year for your favorite chatrooms and messageboards and be happy about the bargain you're getting. There's no motivation without the surveillance to give away all of this work for free. When you do stuff peer-to-peer, it always costs money if you want it to be sustainable. Like for example, a book club. Either everyone is going to take a turn hosting, or everyone is going to give the host a few bucks/bring snacks/wine/etc. (or you're going to go to some commercial space that sells food and drink, and buy food and drink.) None of the options are free. Peer-to-peer (as opposed to sponsor/consumer) will never be free. We should support models like this, not act like we somehow deserve better.
- arunkant 3y agoLol no
- bombcar 3y ago[flagged]
- pc86 3y agoWhy not? Using the in-person book club example, I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario where 1) nobody pays anything to anyone, 2) the same person hosts every meeting, 3) food and/or drink is provided and not pot luck style. If you're in an in-person book club you'll be paying money either directly or indirectly. Small sums absolutely, but still something. This seems comparable in cost.
- schainks 3y agoThis. And if you're really lucky, a large corporate enterprise will let you have hosting space for _free_ at _very specific times_. Otherwise, you must find local community resources who usually: 1. Charge a fee 2. Request you do something for them in exchange (run some publicity, sweeping floors, etc.)
- stocknoob 3y agoCharging money (and seeing who balks) is a good way to filter out people who don’t value their time highly. $5/m for good conversation is a steal.
- mym1990 3y agoReally love the design of the website. Couple nitpicks: In the FAQs: "How is processed the payment?" should probably be "How is the payment processed?". "Registration closes on Friday, April 28th at 12 midnight PT." at the top of the pricing section. What happens now that the registration is past that date? All 3 of the FAQs have to deal with pricing. To be honest, I would like to know more about the actual service. How are group scheduled, what platform is used to do the meetings, what if no one joins a group, is there a refund policy, how many members are there, etc...? At the end of the day, I have paid 10$ for much sillier things, so not a terrible idea. Good luck!
- miguelbemartin 3y agoThanks for your feedback, really appreciated. Definitely, the texts in the website have been the hardest part of the launch.
- apsurd 3y agoI am also curious about the logistics of the club. It seems to be this: https://circle.so https://circle.so
- miguelbemartin 3y agoYes, we are using Circle as a platform and we are paying 99$ each month. We have only 30 spots available, so it will basically cover the cost of the platform itself (if we get all the spots filled). If you have organised a community, you know it's not only the cost of the platform, it takes time to coordinate, moderate and basically build a community.
- apsurd 3y agoDefinitely! I personally welcome more paid communities as a de facto spam/abuse/troll/commitment filter. I'm interested both as a participant and as... let's call it what a positive mental-health online community looks like post FB/IG/TikTok. edit/ more actionable feedback: while I am interested, there's a misalignment between "lightweight commitment for me to check this community out" and "pay $50 to peek into something I'm not sure is right _for me_". For example, the cost of many communities is "create an account" and that seems like a high bar for most people in itself.
- zwieback 3y agoSounds like a terrible idea - people are starting to hate the subscription economy, I know I do. I run a fiction book club at work and it is a lot of work, none of which I see this website solving. Also, it's unclear whether I still have to buy the book or whether the subscription allows me access to an e-version of whatever is being read.
- millzlane 3y agoCouldn't we start a HN Bookclub? we could start with some light reading about software design. Possibly A Philosophy of Software Design by John Ousterhout.
- all2 3y agoCan we pair it with monthly or quarterly hackathons that implement some facet described in the book?
- dancc 3y agoI'd participate - I find it much more engaging to read and discuss with others.
- janalsncm 3y agoGo for it. Pick 12 books and create a schedule for the year. Every month just create an Ask HN post for the discussion.
- miguelbemartin 3y agoJust curious, what are the problems or work when running your book club that this website is not solving?
- zwieback 3y agoThe biggest problems: a) Selecting a book, we want something at least one or two members have already read to make sure there's a good recommendation. Going by reviews has not worked well, it's better if someone brings the selection to the group because they have some personal stake. b) Coordinating the schedule - you want to give people enough time to read the book but two months out the calendar is still volatile so often I have people drop out last minute due to meetings being schedule over, frustrating for everyone and apparently people don't want to tell their manager bookclub trumps work meeting. c) Recruiting new members, we usually have a steady core group but want to beef up our roster to where we don't end up with awkward 2 people meetings. Some of these issues don't apply with technical/business book meetings since it can be done chapter-by-chapter. We've done that as well and it's easier but usually after two or three chapters people drop off or lose interest in specific ones. You could argue that your website isn't concerned with some of the above (e.g. people preselect books, then others show up automatically) but Goodreads and others already do the same for free.
- umayah 3y agoevery book in the image on the front page isn't an engineering book
- alex_lav 3y agoWould've absolutely done it if it included actually getting the book.
- miguelbemartin 3y agoThought about this idea, but there is not a simple way to organise this logistic worldwide.
- pessimizer 3y agoIt's worth trying to work out. People love exchanging money for goods and services. The more you can do for them aside from actually reading the book for them, the better. When other people take care of things, one can relax and enjoy oneself. Even if you can only do it for 50% of members because of whatever logistical problem, it's worth it. Although it seems it'd be simple enough to email publishers and offer to buy X number of copies of an ebook in the context of a book club.
- miguelbemartin 3y agoThat's actually a great suggestion. I will dig deeper to see if there are ways to do that.
- blueridge 3y agoIt's real simple: Give new members an Amazon gift card to purchase the book. You buy the gift card, then send the code. Or, buy a gift card to their local bookstore so they can walk in and buy a physical copy, or they can use the funds to place an online order and have the book shipped through the store. The best way to get a book club off the ground is to make sure everyone has the book in hand before the discussion starts. "First book on us" is a great way to build momentum, and it lets people know that you're serious about the project.
- alex_lav 3y ago> It's real simple: Give new members an Amazon gift card to purchase the book. You buy the gift card, then send the code. Or, buy a gift card to their local bookstore so they can walk in and buy a physical copy, or they can use the funds to place an online order and have the book shipped through the store. I wouldn't do any of this. If I can't put my info in online and a few days later, the book shows up at my house, I definitely will not do it. > The best way to get a book club off the ground is to make sure everyone has the book in hand before the discussion starts. Worth noting that none of what you just described actually assures this. Giving someone currency to buy a book isn't the same as buying them the book. I already have the ability to buy a book.
- petercooper 3y agoGood luck! I think it could work, especially if you can "preseed" it with the right people. A bit like any social experience really. I floated a similar idea many years ago and most of my contacts said it sounded boring and wouldn't sign up, but.. I want to be proven wrong by someone! :-D
- miguelbemartin 3y agoBuilding communities is not easy. I have already experience organising local meetups and it takes time until people understand the value of being part of it. I do not have rush of growing the number of members, the idea is to start it simple and see how it goes.
- sefrost 3y agoPeople complaining about the price might be interested to know LeadDev also hosts a monthly book club. They interview the author of the book and you can submit questions via their Slack. https://leaddev.com/series/bookmarked https://leaddev.com/series/bookmarked https://leaddev.com/bookmarked https://leaddev.com/bookmarked
- _navierstokes 3y agoWhen I open this website it tries to connect to Phantom or MetaMask. Why is that?
- miguelbemartin 3y agoThat should be something in your end, maybe chrome extension or whatever, my website is a simple NextJS deployed in Vercel.
- Minor49er 3y agoThere's a typo on the front page: > The goal is to create a group of professional with similar interests and share the passion of reading engineering books together. It should read "group of professionals"
- miguelbemartin 3y agoThanks for the feedback, fixed :)
- free-nachos 3y agoFeedback - consider removing the 50 euro option from the pricing page because the offer seems to have expired a week and a half ago. I clicked on the 50 button then saw 60 on the pricing page, had to hit back and try to figure out why. It's causing a lot of friction.
- carabiner 3y agoNo mention of civil, chemical, mechanical engineering.
- benzofuran 3y agoIs this for software engineers or actual engineers? You may want to specify.
- charlie0 3y agoFee seems high, but if it works it works. Allowing free access just lets in all the spammers, the looky loos, and just too many people to form great relationships.
- miguelbemartin 3y agoAgree, this is why I simply offer a refund option, but not directly opening for everyone. Maybe, I can create a video to show what you will get inside the community, so it will allow people to get a sneak preview.
- charlie0 3y agoThe way I've always thought of stuff like this is to offer a free tier and a paid tier. Free tier gets access to most of the stuff and paid access gets you the premium things. You can also do a cheaper tier and premium tier if you're concerned about operational costs.
- miguelbemartin 3y agoI think this model works for SAAS companies, I don't think it can be implemented in a community, because the value is coming with the interactions and connections between people in the long term.
- iudqnolq 3y agoThese books like irritatingly philosophical. What is there to discuss about "The Leader who had no Title"?
- miguelbemartin 3y agoThe first book that we are going to read is "A Philosophy of Software Design", it's a book by John Ousterhout.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- paulrchds 3y agoI was interested but just wouldn't spend that much, would rather try organising something myself.
- miguelbemartin 3y agoDo you mean organising yourself a community or just reading a book?
- quickthrower2 3y agoFree MVP: 1. Go on ASK HN about a book you want to make a club for. 2. Create a Discord link.
- Animats 3y agoThe books in the picture are all management books.
- AHOHA 3y agoAs an engineer, I wouldn’t join such thing even for free. But good luck
- miguelbemartin 3y agowhy?
- AHOHA 3y agoIt’s a personal take, I believe in nowadays tech you can pretty much access anything, anywhere, anytime, and that’s before the whole chatgpt/LLM/generative AI/etc. where you can have a fully customizable assistant at your fingertips at any field. I also believe such communities will eventually be a source of distraction (aka drama) once they get large enough, because we are humans and these types of dynamics are bound to happen. To some, maybe it’s a source of motivation or inspiration as they need that extrinsic motivations.
- miguelbemartin 3y agoI believe that the desire for human connection is more important than simply having access to information. In this conversation, we are engaging with each other as humans, rather than relying on a virtual assistant to listen and offer a different perspective. This is why there are tons of communities out there. Having an online community is interesting for people that work remotely and want to find ways of connecting with people with the same interests.