33 ms·

Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

688 points by isomorph 3y ago

TheRealPomax 3y ago
So is this "you buy it, you can now use it on MacOS and iOS"? Or is this one of those stupid "you buy it, and then you have to buy the for-iOS version separately a second time"?
wahnfrieden 3y ago
How does Logic compare with AUM?
_9hey 3y ago
You’ll own nothing and be happy /s
retskrad 3y ago
I’m sorry but not even the actors in the promo video in this announcement can sell the idea that video editing on a touch device is a good idea. No professional video editor will use Final Cut on the iPad. It’s horribly ineffcient. It feels like Apple has no idea what to do with the iPad Pro. The product hasn’t evolved at all since 2018.
- mavhc 3y ago
  Their idea is: add a mouse and keyboard option
- elliottkember 3y ago
  Have you seen the magic keyboard accessory? With the trackpad and keyboard?
  - Tepix 3y ago
    At the ridiculous price they are charging for it, it might as well not exist.
    - asutekku 3y ago
      While the price might be ridiculous for you, the price is not ridiculous for the people in the market for it.
- throw74774 3y ago
  Dunno - touch devices are already very popular for music editing and production. No reason they shouldn’t be for video too.
- vuln 3y ago
  > It feels like Apple has no idea what to do with the iPad Pro. 100% this. I have an iPad Pro. If I want to plug it into a projector via USBC or a Dock I must ALSO connect a Bluetooth speaker device as the iPad will not allow use the internal speakers on the iPad while connected to an external _display_ fucking madness.
  - mvanbaak 3y ago
    yeah, because you want to use the internal speaker while watching the video on a projector screen ... I understand what you are saying, and it sucks indeed, but there are other systems that have exactly the same 'problem' and in real life this is a problem for the minority of people. apple sells to the masses, and they will do what the majority of the people want/need/use. Sure, it sux if you dont fit in that group, but that has been the thing with most big vendors of things.
    - dbspin 3y ago
      It's a problem for anyone trying to give a presentation in an educational or office environment - local sound solutions on projectors in small offices and small classrooms are often (probably 70% of the time in my experience) non functional.
      - mvanbaak 3y ago
        iPad speakers in a classroom is not going to cut it, they are nowhere near powerful enough. in an office environment you can use the tv audio, or the video conferencing unit (in my experience even a 10man shop has those). again, for the very small percentage of people that fall outside of the 'masses' it is a problem, and I totally understand that. But none of the big brands care about the use cases that are not the masses. So you can blame apple, but look around and blame all the others as well.
        vuln 3y ago
        The iPad Pro has 4 speakers. You seem so matter of fact with your opinion. How big is the classroom in your mind? Video conferencing units like you bring up most of the time need separate drivers, or an app to connect. Should I have all these different teleconferencing apps on my iPad in case I show up to a client that uses xyz model? What happened to apple’s “it just works”
- Tagbert 3y ago
  The iPad is no longer touch-only. Since Apple added support for pencil, mouse/trackpad and brought out more keyboards, the iPad is a multi-model input device.
  - mattwad 3y ago
    True but it's not very good as a laptop replacement. It's much more expensive than an Air and can't run the same apps. While doing my research it seemed a lot of people either already had a laptop or preferred to have a laptop if they had to pick one. This is coming from a Surface 5 user - I gave up eventually because it was never powerful enough, but it is a much better approach to multi-input laptop replacement since it can run anything.
    - mvanbaak 3y ago
      It is not a laptop replacement. And apple does not design it to be one. It's a very nice device to have next to your Mac Studio / Mac Pro to do your work while not at your desk. The creative possibilities of the iPad are spectacular. The ease of maintaining one is 100x bigger than a notebook. it's simply another type of device, not a replacement.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        > It's a very nice device to have next to your Mac Studio / Mac Pro to do your work while not at your desk. I'm kinda curious - what does it do that my laptop can't? Am I missing out on anything by bringing a full computer with me when I have to work? I've got an iPad (an older one) and it's just about completely useless for me. It doesn't support my file syncing app, it insists on using it's own file formats, it doesn't trust me to install apps and doesn't have enough builtin IO to charge and use a mouse at the same time. Lugging around a second Mac seems like a much more seamless experience to me.
        mvanbaak 3y ago
        I can only respond based on my experience. 1. Personally, an iPad for me is just another nice gadget. I'm a developer and I want my MacBook 2. The iPad has a lot of things less technical people prefer over a notebook: 2.1 - easy of / lack of - maintenance. It just works, you click the home button and it works, things are simply there 2.2 - battery life. iPad wins hands down from all other alternatives 2.3 - pencil. both for creative work as for boring office work and signing contracts 2.4 - games for the kids/pets. Roadtrip? waiting for the doctors appointment? anything? give them the iPad and have them kill time with $random thing 2.5 - support. No matter what the problem is, walk into an Apple Store and have it fixed. (I know some parts of the world have different service, but at least here in .nl its perfect)
- ancientworldnow 3y ago
  No serious professional wants to use FCP in the first place.
  - brookst 3y ago
    Out of all of the people in the world who do at least a few hours of video editing a year, what percent do you think are Serious Professionals?
  - starkparker 3y ago
    Aww, that's not true. Serious professionals want to use FCP 7.
  - mannyv 3y ago
    From what I understand a large number of video people are wedding/event people...which makes sense, because there aren't that many TV shows. While I doubt they'll be editing on-site, now they can with their IPP instead of their MBP. People work where they want to and jow they want to. If the tool works for you, go for it.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  > No professional video editor will use Final Cut on the iPad Maybe it's for other people then?
- edude03 3y ago
  This is basically the "no true Scotsman" argument. Your definition of professional video editor seems to not include people like YouTube/TikTok/Instagram content creators who are already "professionally editing" videos on their phones and iPads and making good money I might add.
tomduncalf 3y ago
Wow, huge. Can’t wait to try Logic Pro. The iPad is a fantastic device for music making in many ways with lots of amazing apps, but I’ve never been happy with any of the “full fat” DAW options. Hopefully Apple have nailed the usability and flexibility - $49/year is a reasonable price to pay in my mind if so.
- cpuguy83 3y ago
  Seriously amazing price assuming it is as capable as the desktop versions. I pay more for Fantasical than this costs.
nottorp 3y ago
They're also bringing the subscription pricing model...
- throw_m239339 3y ago
  Yeah, subscription sucks. $200 bucks for Logic and Final cuts desktop is such a nice deal. Final Cut used to be like $1000+ bucks and Logic $800+ or something.
- brookst 3y ago
  I'd much rather pay $50/year and get perpetual updates than the old price of $199 one time. Yes, I'd rather pay $5 one time and get free updates forever, but I just can't see complaining about $4/month for anything I get ongoing value from.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    You like losing access when you cancel the subscription? Or when an older device is cut off from the app store?
    - zuppy 3y ago
      what older device is cut off from the app store? you get to keep that version that you have and the subscription will go on.
      - nottorp 3y ago
        You can see into the future?
        zuppy 3y ago
        no, i can see into the past and you're being disingenuous. this is the current way that older apps are supported, and compared to android, apple provides longest support for older os versions. the ones that are not supporten anymore get to keep (and download) the latest compatible version of the app. i had a device where i tested that.
dagmx 3y ago
Having a full DAW on the go is a killer feature imho. The promise has been there since stuff like 8tracks on the iPhone 3G, and various Audio Units already on iOS. But I’ve always found the workflow very limiting or clunky. (Edit: I’m a Logic Pro user on macOS so my comments reflect getting things into that specifically) The divide from putting down an idea when it hits, to working it into something, has always been really high. Having something where I can potentially work out an idea with just my iPad , and then take it to my desktop is really exciting to me. FCPX seems neat as well. I doubt it’ll be something people use in touch mode, but I can see some folks using it for quick on the go edits for things like social media stings. Go to an event, shoot, edit and upload. I don’t see it being used for more than that level of work. But also, as much as both the things I mentioned are very spur of the moment things, I think the real value here is having a step ladder through the ecosystem. A lot of people, especially youths, only need an iPad for more of their computing use. Having more pro apps on the iPad signals to them that they can shift more of their computer life to it. A lot may just even need to add a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Conversely, the people who do want to use it more seriously after whetting their teeth on the mobile platform, will then see the Mac as the next logical stepping point. It’s a smart way imho to get people on either side of the fence to consider the other side.
- meghan_rain 3y ago
  > Having a full DAW on the go is a killer feature imho. Macbook?
  - dagmx 3y ago
    I guess I should expand why not a laptop, but it boils down to removing lots of little friction points that make ephemeral ideas harder to put down. 1. Touch first is important because your instruments are touch as well. Being able to record my live instruments and not have to switch to a trackpad to move between UI elements seems small, but it really keeps me in the zone. 2. Same point above, but basically being able to switch between my live instrument and an on screen virtual one is a big deal to layer up an idea. Can’t do that easily with a trackpad or mouse. 3. There’s something to be said for the mobile platforms single app as a focus model. I know you can full screen a Mac app, or split screen on an iPad, but having a singular focus helps reduce distractions. 4. Weight/portability are quite different. Maybe a MacBook Air would be better, but I take my iPad Pro to more places with me than I take my much heavier MacBook Pro . I’m already taking it to draw on the go, so this is just one more thing I can do without needing to buy a new device or take a heavier one. Edit: oh and number 5 is a big one. I can put my iPad Pro in my existing music stand that works for me at multiple heigh levels. There are laptop stands that might work too, but I already use my iPad for sheet music, so it’s already a convenient setup.
silveira 3y ago
Subscription. I'm out. I already paid for these softwares on Mac and I don't get even a discount in the price. I was expecting some kind of upgrade option.
- tgv 3y ago
  I don't think it's aimed at the same market. I mean: I can run large sample libraries on my MBP, but I don't see that happen any time soon on an iPad. There's not enough disk space, and I don't see the whole NI library eco-system adapt itself to iOS (let alone custom players like EastWest or Spitfire). But it's a great option for people who've outgrown GarageBand.
- m3kw9 3y ago
  Why would you want to use iPad version if you already using it for Mac? It’s a big pain due to the file system and storage limitations. The ipad version is aimed more at non professional use but still giving them professional features. Would never touch ipad version, totally different use case. You won’t see Hollywood types saying I’m gonna use this because, because it’s touch screen
  - _joel 3y ago
    Why wouldn't you, very similar workflow and more portable. For sketching ideas you don't need multi terrabyte Kontakt plugins.
    - m3kw9 3y ago
      If you just want to sketch ideas, garage band could be enough. I mean both a Mac and iPad are quite portable, but i do see if you just want to professionally develop music on the cheap, iPad it is, you will have a hard time with the screen size however if you want to anything with many instruments and tracks
      - _joel 3y ago
        Yea, granted. I don't have any issues carrying my m2 air about for writing but it's still a bit cumbersome vs. ipad and I'll be trying out the new version for sure. Just seems complimentary rather than binary.
ricardobeat 3y ago
I'm positively surprised by the pricing. While I still prefer outright buying apps instead of subscriptions, last time I paid €230 for Logic on desktop (and it used to cost even more), this new sub would take four years to match that. This massively lowers the cost of entry especially for countries with devalued currency against the USD.
- tjr225 3y ago
  And 199$ is already an insanely good deal for what you get.
- mullen 3y ago
  $49 a year is pretty damn cheap in IMHO. Also, when the new version comes out, you don't have to put another lump of cash up front to get it, you just upgrade your subscription and get the new version. Something better comes along? Just cancel the subscription and switch to the new software. The fear of "being too invested in a software package" basically goes away. I think this is a good move on Apples part and the customers part on several levels.
NickC25 3y ago
Neat....although sad that it's via a subscription model, rather than buying the program outright. That said, what's the point of this? Everyone works off laptops already, even people new to A/V production. Especially in the audio world, laptops are just so much more convenient because you can host 3rd party plugins and other stuff like sample libraries. Can't do that on an iPad, can you?
- mortenjorck 3y ago
  There is a whole audio plugin ecosystem on iOS (AUv3), but I think your point still stands. Anecdotally, I use my iPad for music production, but it’s a very different kind of context and process from what I do on my Mac. On the laptop, I’m typically producing full tracks in Ableton Live, while on my iPad, it’s more “jamming” in apps like Drambo or AUM, something closer in spirit to a “DAWless” hardware setup. Logic Pro on iOS doesn’t hold any appeal for me as that’s just not the kind of workflow I value the iPad for.
  - tomduncalf 3y ago
    I have the same workflow as you, using Drambo or AUM, but I do love the idea of being able to "finish" a track on the iPad. Granted the laptop will probably always be more powerful and perhaps a better interface for precision editing, but to be able to do it all on the go on one very portable device would be pretty cool IMO.
  - NickC25 3y ago
    I use iMaschine, GarageBand and occasionally FL Studio Mobile on my iPhone. All great apps, but all are limited. Can't beat using Live on the desktop/laptop. Great for getting one's feet wet, or for ideas that spring to mind when you hear something cool on the street or on the train or whatever. Hear something, record it, manipulate it, and make a quick beat or riff on the spot. However, like you, that's just a small part of the process, and if one wants to do something more with the sound they recorded, it needs to be moved to a more powerful platform - in this case a laptop. A DAW on the iPad is neat, but kind of stuck between usecases.
- 3y ago
Curzel 3y ago
I don't get it. People have been wondering when this would happen since the very first iPad Pro, so lots of people will be happy now... Even assuming all the required horse power is there, I still don't get it... Maybe I'm getting old.
- wilsonnb3 3y ago
  There are a few reasons that I am excited for this, none of which have to do with actually using logic pro or final cut on an ipad. 1. This is an excellent signal that iPads can get "real" software now, hopefully more companies start porting their desktop mac software to iPadOS 2. Apple will continute to keep MacOS and iPadOS separate rather than trying to combine them like a lot of people on the internet think they want, which is good. 3. WWDC is going to be an absolute banger this year if they are announcing something like this in a press release.
  - eliseomartelli 3y ago
    I'm really excited for point 3. I really wish iOS opens up to accept a real terminal. I know iSH exists but it runs using usermode x86 emulation.
    - adrusi 3y ago
      You can sideload UTM if you sign it with your own developer key, and run VMs with JIT-based acceleration. It’ll sometimes get killed by the OS without much you can do about it though.
- runlevel1 3y ago
  > Even assuming all the required horse power is there, I still don't get it... Looks like the latest generation of iPad Pro and MacBook Air have comparable CPU benchmarks.[^1][^2] I'm with you in not getting it, though. Editing video on an iPad seems like it'd be a frustratingly constrained affair due to the UI. But I might just be getting old too. [1]: https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-air-2022 https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-air-2022 [2]: https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/ipad14-5 https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/ipad14-5
ricokatayama 3y ago
I'm still a bit skeptical about Logic's ability to be a full-featured DAW on the iPad. The move is great, but we need to tackle several challenges to make it suitable for final editing rather than just a work support tool: - It needs to have open and comprehensive plugin support - The workflow for uploading and exporting content needs to be seamless, and the iPad OS is still limited in this regard - Screen size and real estate are still a concern - Ready-to-use ecosystems for operating with the iPad, such as interfaces, audio monitors, etc., need to be developed. I love the idea of being able to record, create, edit, and mix on the go, but I've kind of moved away from the DAW paradigm on tablets. Today, I focus my workflow on a Dawless idea, with the M8, Digitakt, Organelle, OP-1, and several other devices. More expensive? Definitely! But it fits my creative mode.
- intrasight 3y ago
  > skeptical about Logic's ability to be a full-featured DAW It won't be full-featured - it doesn't have to be to make a huge impact. For example, as a new platform for live performances, it will be pretty awesome.
- tomduncalf 3y ago
  > It needs to have open and comprehensive plugin support iOS has a thriving plugin scene, using the AUv3 (Audio Unit) format. Search the App Store for "AUv3" and check out the huge range of synths, effects, etc. In addition to smaller devs, there are some big players who have ported their flagship plugins (FabFilter, Eventide etc.) > The workflow for uploading and exporting content needs to be seamless, and the iPad OS is still limited in this regard It is much better since Files was added to iOS, though still a bit clunky. Their page (https://www.apple.com/logic-pro-for-ipad/ https://www.apple.com/logic-pro-for-ipad/) advertises "roundtrip compatibility" so hopefully they've made this easy > Screen size and real estate are still a concern Definitely a valid point, maybe this is the catalyst for a 15" iPad! > Ready-to-use ecosystems for operating with the iPad, such as interfaces, audio monitors, etc., need to be developed. Any class-compliant USB device will work with an iPad (or iPhone), so most audio interfaces, MIDI keyboards, etc. should be good to go. It only won't work if it requires a custom driver
buildbuildbuild 3y ago
A fun toy. Until the long list of third party pro audio interface drivers and plug-ins work on iPad, this will only be useful for the (large) prosumer market. It would be killer if this supported Dante over Ethernet at 96khz.
birdyrooster 3y ago
Just when I was thinking about selling my iPad
oger 3y ago
Interesting: Apple is moving their apps to a subscription model. „ Pricing and Availability Starting Tuesday, May 23, Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro for iPad will each be available on the App Store for $4.99 (US) per month or $49 (US) per year with a one-month free trial.8 Final Cut Pro is compatible with M1 chip iPad models or later, and Logic Pro will be available on A12 Bionic chip iPad models or later. Final Cut Pro for iPad and Logic Pro for iPad require iPadOS 16.4. For more information, visit apple.com/final-cut-pro-for-ipad and apple.com/logic-pro-for-ipad.“
- Kognito 3y ago
  Interesting change, I do wonder if the Mac apps will follow suit.
  - tigeroil 3y ago
    My guess, based on the fact that Logic Pro and FCP, in the nicest way I can say this, haven't had any meaningful core upgrades in a while, is that they're planning some fairly major updates on macOS for both and the plan is to release them as new, subscription-only versions later this year.
    - Applejinx 3y ago
      Glad I moved to Reaper, then. Mind you, I'm still running Final Cut for video making. Hope I don't have to bail on that too. I'll keep running the version I have, but much like I don't use Adobe at all, I won't run such a program if I have to rent it. Exception, XCode :D most certainly have to pay yearly for that! But I view it as paying for authorization as an Apple dev, not so much as 'for the app itself'.
      - mynameisvlad 3y ago
        You can download XCode without a dev membership, so you're definitely not paying for it either way.
vrglvrglvrgl 3y ago
[dead]
basisword 3y ago
So many “I don’t get it” comments in this thread. And complaints about the subscription pricing. The market for this seems pretty obvious - teenagers. iPad seems like the default computer for kids these days and kids like to create. When I was a teenager I had to build my own PC, struggle to pirate Cubase and some plugins and it was a nightmare. When I finally got a MacBook Logic being $200 was out of reach still. A subscription makes it affordable for the people who are going to use it on a tablet. The same thought applies for teenagers trying to make YouTube videos. Now they can legally and easily use the professional tools on hardware they already own.
- rebolek 3y ago
  People have different nightmares. My nightmare is yet another subscription.
  - basisword 3y ago
    Then you’re probably not the target market. I would have loved this when I was younger and $5 a month was easy/$200 one off was impossible.
    - mirkules 3y ago
      It is usually not billed monthly. They SAY it’s $5/month, but your actual price is $60 right now, for a whole year. That’s a huge difference. You’re paying a good portion of full price, with the “benefit” of having it stop working after a year.
    - tombert 3y ago
      I kind of wish they'd have an option for both. ToonBoom Harmony still lets you do that (though they kind of obscure that on their website). You have the option of paying $71/month for Harmony Advanced, or $1130 for a perpetual license. It would be nice for people to do something similar with Logic; you can pay for a subscription, or you can pay a flat rate to own something forever; I'm personally kind of turned off by products that do not offer perpetual licenses.
- 3y ago
nxpnsv 3y ago
I guess my mac logic pro license won’t cover the iPad version, right?
- drcongo 3y ago
  Doesn't look like it, which is a shame. Extra annoying that this is a subscription too.
- samstave 3y ago
  This has always bothered me, in general, take games for example ; if I pay $70 for a game on the PS5, why cant I run same game on my PC? I bought the game, not the platform. FU - I am paying for running the 'license' of the game on a given GPU/CPU? its Oracle Licensing policy, recall when Oracle tied your DB lic to a CPU? Fuck that.
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    You didn't even buy a game, you but a license to a game. One that often can't even be resold like normal licensed wares. Luckily, piracy remains an option if you're willing to download patches manually.
theodric 3y ago
"...will be available on the App Store as subscriptions..." That's a hard pass from me, dawg. I refuse to subscribe to an app for a hobby.
recursive 3y ago
Allegedly this supports audio interfaces, so I presume it's supposed to able to be used for recording. What kind of latency can be achieved by ipad hardware? This announcement is mysteriously quiet about that.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  > What kind of latency can be achieved by ipad hardware? This is old, but ~11ms seems typical: https://onyx3.com/LatencyMeter/ios-audio-guitar-interfaces-latency.html https://onyx3.com/LatencyMeter/ios-audio-guitar-interfaces-l... This site also documents 11ms round-trip latency with an iRig on an iPad 2: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html
- LegitShady 3y ago
  iPad already supported class compliant audio interfaces.
  - recursive 3y ago
    Interesting fact, although it also doesn't provide any information about latency.
    - LegitShady 3y ago
      When I have a bit of time later this evening I'll plug my presonus into the my ipad and see if any of the daws I have on there can measure it. It's not an m1 ipad though - 2018 pro.
spankalee 3y ago
Logic will do for now, but I really want MainStage for the iPad. MainStage is one of the best collections of synths you can get, much less for $29, and being able to gig with it small touch-screen hardware like an iPad mini would be incredible. I'm all in on Android, but would but an iPad just for music.
deleted 3y ago
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evo_9 3y ago
Hey Ableton you paying attention? Now would be a good time to bring Live to the iPad and include a virtual Push 2.
- trollied 3y ago
  QT is available for iOS, so I guess it's doable...
- jrajav 3y ago
  They just released Ableton Note for iOS, which is absolutely nothing like Live and clearly shares no code nor is meant to grow into it, so I wouldn't hold my breath that they plan anything else in that space soon.
Audiophilip 3y ago
Now I just wish iPads would have an audio jack so that I could plug in my headphone while using Logic.
- xattt 3y ago
  Echoing other comments explaining why this release is a good development … If you need headphones or a speaker to hear sounds you create, you are not the target demographic.
  - bannedbybros 3y ago
    [dead]
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    ... surely most people will be using an audio interface anyway?
  - JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
    His point (that you and the other commenters are intentionally ignoring) is that he could be the target demographic, if Apple had made their mobile platform a little more flexible/"pro".
    - xattt 3y ago
      I missed the /s tag. Of course any sane musician would want to hear the sounds they are creating. Other comments in this thread saying that a specific concern is inappropriate because something something target demographic are snobbish.
bookaway 3y ago
Am I the only one that finds the process of getting files of a decent size from non-Apple devices to Apple mobile devices incredibly frustrating, almost enough to be a deal breaker? What is the current best practice for the fastest way to get video files on an IPad as of now?
- DamnInteresting 3y ago
  It's not just non-Apple devices. I use my iPad to make music and sketches, and sometimes I need to move files between my iPad and MacBook. Airdrop almost never works, and transferring in the Files app is confusing--sometimes the file won't appear in the relevant app, or sometimes it appears twice, and it's not clear which is the newer version. I often resort to emailing the files back and forth to myself as attachments, which is not ideal. If anyone knows of a better way to move files to and from an iPad, I would be delighted to hear it.
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    Not been an Apple user since a little while after Steve Jobs passed away, but this is in stark contrast to what people usually say about Airdrop. What I usually hear is that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread and how everybody should be using it.
    - lostgame 3y ago
      Wow. I’ve seriously actually never heard that once in 15+ years of being a Mac developer and using them full time. I’ve never actually heard anyone, in real life; or offline, recommend, suggest; or even say one single positive thing about AirDrop essentially since its release. It’s easily the most unreliable piece of software integrated into the MacOS/iOS platform, just a feature that has been so fundamentally broken since it’s introduction that it makes me wonder why it exists at all. It’s definitely below 50% on the times it actually works as intended - given any network configuration, combinations of Macs or OS versions…nothing really seems to even consistently affect its continual failure. AirDrop not working, is the expected result of using the software. As of Ventura I’ve not noticed any improvement in the feature’s functionality since it’s introduction.
yehia2amer 3y ago
Next —> Xcode
rantee 3y ago
Nice. Now do Xcode!
rajbot 3y ago
Although I understand the reasoning, I’m sad to see the move to subscription pricing. I bought Final Cut and Logic a long time ago in the Mac App Store, and now my kids get to use them through Family Sharing. One of them has written hundreds of songs in Logic and published an album. The one-time purchase of Final Cut and Logic with Family Sharing and a lifetime of upgrades has been such an unbelievable value for such powerful software.
- rchaud 3y ago
  I'm against subscriptions generally, but $50/yr is significantly cheaper than the $299 for Final Cut Pro X or whatever it is they offered previously.
  - rajbot 3y ago
    It’s not. I bought FCP X in 2011 for $299. If you are just counting my own usage, that is $25/yr over the last 12 years, but I get to keep using for many more years, and both my kids use it through family sharing as well, so we are down to $5/year per person or less, without having to mess with yet another subscription. I used to work on a competing product, and subscription pricing will work better for most people who are in this market, so my personal use case is an outlier I know. Edit: all that said, I’m excited to be the first person to subscribe to Logic on the iPad. I hope that subscription is Family Sharing enabled as well!
  - jonhohle 3y ago
    The cost may be cheaper over $time_period (debatable), but in one case you have fully functional software and in the other you have nothing. I know Adobe has “proven” pros will take subscription software and like it, but for every day users who like to mess around now and then, I have no interest in a perpetual subscription.
  - trinix912 3y ago
    At some point the Final Cut Studio package was like $1000. Still not as bad as AVID back then…
- 3y ago
jonhohle 3y ago
Subscription! Even Apple has fallen. This is really disappointing.
- MuffinFlavored 3y ago
  $5/mo for top of the line software that will continue to get updates + new features + bug fixes is "really disappointing"?
  - g105b 3y ago
    Yes. The software will not receive updates forever. The Ipad will not receive updates forever. One day, this software will force the user to buy more Apple devices to continue using it.
    - eurekin 3y ago
      Adobe subscriptions are nice examples of bad management, no long standing significant bug was fixed and they mostly seem to add toys around the fringes (cloud based neural filters for example)
      - astrange 3y ago
        Adobe can't ever change any of their old filters for compatibility reasons (or because they believe they're "not really broken".) Approximately all the math in Photoshop is wrong because it's not done in linear colorspace, the image resizing algorithms were bad for 1980, etc, but they can't change them. Lightroom introduced a new better ML demosaic for raw photos, but they can't just replace the old one, instead it's a different "enhance photo" option.
    - anaganisk 3y ago
      Don't u just end the subscription at that point? What am I missing.
      - EnigmaCurry 3y ago
whywhywhywhy 3y ago
As the years go by, the entirely different OS for tablets vs laptops which at first seemed like the only route to get a quality experience seems like a huge misstep now the tablets all have keyboards and trackpads stuck to them when used for work.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  We made a worse laptop.
ericzawo 3y ago
A subscription for Logic is nuts. It's already $300 software for the Mac. I would be fine paying another one-time fee if it meant I had it forever on my iPad. It really is stellar software, as evidenced by it's two-decade presence in the industry, but to move to subscription feels very... un-Apple (at least in this Professional Media Software context).
- jonhohle 3y ago
  iPads have an archival problem already, and this just exacerbated it. If I’m a studio and want to throw a project into a vault somewhere with hopes of retrieving it in a decade, the iPadOS/iOS software model makes it impossible to get back to a specific configuration without freezing a specific device. Now throwing a subscriptionmm no on top of it, this is at best good for throw away projects that are done, pushed out, and never looked at again (from an editing perspective). This is really mind boggling.
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    Film and TV scores in Logic from the early '00s regularly get opened for sequels, prequels, interquels, reboots, remasters et al. I don't use Logic anymore, but when I did, that's one of the things that impressed me. Logic on iOS? Could be an entirely different story as it relies on other apps as plugins that may change. Just to err on the side of caution, assume that if it isn't saved as audio or MIDI, you'll probably be screwed.
- TheRealPomax 3y ago
  It's $199. It's only ever been $499 until 2013, when the price suddently dropped to $199, and it has been that ever since. Logic Pro is ridiculously cheap compared to most other DAW out there. There aren't tiers, there's no upsell to unlock basic features like unlimited tracks, it's just a full featured DAW, the end. Heack, a license for the "full feature, but not bundle-padded, version of X" costs: - Reason: $60 (personal/limited commercial license) - Renoise: $75 (and is the only tracker-style DAW) - Tracktion Waveform: $149 - FL Studio: $199 (thankfully) - Reaper: $225 (unlimited commercial license, by the time you need this, you already have seven other DAW already, too) - Cubase: $329 - Studio One: $399 - Bitwig Studio: $399 - Ableton: $449 - Reason: $499 - Pro Tools: $499 So it's a great deal! ... ...but... ...$199 is also extreme expensive for people who bought a second hand mac, or have a hand-me-down ipad, and don't have two hundred dollars to casually spend on something they never played with because it's been out of reach due to a sky-high price. A subscription for Logic is the complete opposite of nuts. At $5 a month, someone can use Logic for 40 months before it would have been cheaper to buy it up front. That's more than three years, but which time you either know this is what you love, or you stopped using it already and moved on to another hobby. Heck, at $45 a year, that's four or even five years. Plenty of time to get your priorities straight and start saving if audio work brings you joy. The audio crowd got used to incredibly high prices for software, $100+ for an app or even plugin is considered "normal", and has made it completely impossible for kids or just people without disposable income to get into. Everyone knows this, which is why everyone who actually cares to get those folks into their ecosystem either dropped their prices, or now offers a subscription model in addition to buying a perpetual license for a specific version. And in an ecosystem where subscriptions are $9.99/mo (which they pretty much all are), $5/mo is a power move.
dan_pixelflow 3y ago
At $50 a year (equates to $4 a month if paid annually), this is - albeit a subscription model - so much better than Adobe's £20 a month plan for just Premiere (obviously to get you to go for the £50 a month plan). It's a much better plan and I hope things like this make Adobe consider their costs. It's a big ask and I know they won't... but you can hope.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  Premiere is $31.49 per month on the month plan. The annual plan paid monthly is $20.99 per month. For all apps is $82.49 pel month on them monthly plan.
- ww520 3y ago
  I use the free version of Davinci Resolve to edit videos for a few occasions. It's amazingly good. Easy to learn and easy to use. Quite impressive with the feature sets.
  - speedgoose 3y ago
    The color editor using nodes is particularly powerful, and you can even export .cube LUT files. I now use it to edit my pictures too.
    - jamiedumont 3y ago
      I'd love to hear more about this! I'm a photographer but look on jealously at Davinci. Black Magic got so much right with the design (and business model) of their software. How does it work for images?
      - ww520 3y ago
        Davinci Resolve just treats photos as another source media. When added to a timeline, the photo got repeated as a still image throughout the timeline. You can apply color and filter transformation to the timeline as usual. Export a frame from the timeline as image at the end for output. See this for working on photos, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHhklKCBC0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHhklKCBC0s
NikolaNovak 3y ago
This is great, but why not just have Garage Band work the same / be the same on both platforms? I'm a PC user; few years ago I realized how great iPad GarageBand was for playing around. Like an idiot, I literally purchased a used MacBook so I can edit my iPad travelling doodles at home with big screen as well, only to realize that they are different software with different capabilities and you cannot seamlessly copy projects from one to another. I openly admit I'm an idiot for jumping in like that, but for all the discussion on how user friendly and seamless Apple ecosystem is, I still don't think it was a ridiculous assumption to make :-/
- shp0ngle 3y ago
  You cannot? Huh I am an Apple ecosystem guy and the assumption that GarageBand on iPadOS and GarageBand on macOS will be compatible is really a reasonable one; I would think it’s the case!!
  - lostgame 3y ago
    It is not. You can open iOS/iPadOS GarageBand files in MacOS, but you cannot open MacOS GarageBand files on iOS/iPadOS.
    - spectre3d 3y ago
      True, but you can open macOS Logic Pro files in GarageBand on iOS. [1] [1] https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/logicpro/lgcpa81aa804/mac https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/logicpro/lgcpa81aa804/...
- mattl 3y ago
  Is iPad GarageBand different from iPhone GarageBand? Or are they the same app?
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    I believe iphone and iPad to be the same and Macbook to be different.
clint 3y ago
[flagged]
- throw_m239339 3y ago
  > while _actual_ creative professionals will more than willingly pay $5/mo and love every minute of it. I doubt that: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/30/23662000/waves-audio-engineering-plugins-subscription-creative-access-perpetual-license https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/30/23662000/waves-audio-engi... > Music producers revolted against an app’s subscription scheme — and won Actual Music producers hate subscription schemes.
  - agloe_dreams 3y ago
    Yes, but one of these was a plugin for $25/mo and the other is the whole damn tool to do your job for $5 a month on a device you couldn't run it on in the past. I expect it to not actually be bashed.
    - archerx 3y ago
      At first I was excited to see Logic pro on the Ipad but as soon as I saw subscription my excitement instantly died. I'll just stick with Garageband on the Ipad for my basic music needs. Same thing happened with Adobe, I was a die hard Premiere pro fan and now I haven't used it in years since I moved to Davinci Resolve all because Adobe went all in on subs.
    - kstrauser 3y ago
      $5/mo is waaaayyyy less than I’ve paid for Ableton Live on average. It’s not in quite the same space as Logic Pro, but you can credibly lump them in as “professional music production software”.
    - mejutoco 3y ago
      What happens when the subscription increases in price and your workflow depends on it?
  - 3y ago
deofoo 3y ago
Where is the innovation? Such a disappointment.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  Well, what were you expecting? Can you describe what innovation looks like?
  - tonetheman 3y ago
    [dead]
tshaddox 3y ago
I’m looking forward to seeing the feature set. I recently tried out a few of the iPad DAWs and wasn’t able to find anything that could even correctly record and edit MIDI and also automate tempo (like MacOS Logic Pro’s tempo track).
tm-guimaraes 3y ago
More companies should just adopt Jetbrains model. Month subscription available, but by paying the annual subscription you get a perpetual license for the last release covered by your purchase, which makes an annual subscription pretty much the same as "buy with 1 year of updates".
- Someone1234 3y ago
  iOS devices don't support downloading specific versions of apps, and you cannot sideload. Apple has made this model impossible on iOS.
  - scarface74 3y ago
    Actually it does. If you have a device that doesn’t support the newest version of the app, you can choose to “download the last compatible version”
    - ianlevesque 3y ago
      That isn’t enough to enable this business model.
      - scarface74 3y ago
        It would be simple enough (yes I know I sound like a product manager” to add another rule to allow someone to download the last version they are eligible for. Apple keeps all of the previous versions of apps. They use to be available via a simple url.
        zamadatix 3y ago
        The problem isn't the lack of possible way to do it well rather the lack of implemented way to do it well.
        threeseed 3y ago
        There is a major update to iOS every single year and many older application simply wouldn't run. Bad experience for users, developers and Apple.
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
I'll pick up the app (I have it on my Mac), once I get an M1 iPad (which may be a while). Give them some time to work out the bugs.
nchase 3y ago
This is exciting. I'd love it if they opened the iPad up to tools like Rogue Amoeba's Loopback[1], because a tool that allows audio capture from the device is critical for any sampling workflow. I'm not holding my breath, but that would complete the dream, for me. [1]: https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/ https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/
bjustin 3y ago
I am surprised to see these are subscriptions when the Mac versions are one-time purchases. I wonder if they will make the subscriptions work for both these new iPad versions as well as for the Mac versions of the apps.
valgaze 3y ago
A VR analyst observed the port could also be related to future headset: https://twitter.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/1655934858307469312 https://twitter.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/16559348583074693... "This is notable because the Apple headset is supposed to support every iPad app on Day 1 of its launch If you want professionals to do things with it, you need the software to push it. With or without a connected PC"
zorrobyte 3y ago
"Get 1 month free, then pay $4.99/month or $49 annually.*" WTF is this?
hn_throawlles 3y ago
now they can really shut down their other MacOS, the one with a BSD licensed kernel,.... where is your open source support now? outbid by data-capitalists is where it is,
nbzso 3y ago
I saw this "trend" long time ago. Switched to Resolve and Studio One. Call me an old head, but there is something in using multiple displays and knowing that your software is platform-agnostic. :)
mwidell 3y ago
There is a great app for iPad called LumaFusion, which is very similar to Final Cut. I tried using an iPad Pro for a couple of weeks when it came out, to see if it can replace a laptop or desktop. Biggest problem was ergonomics. So incredibly bad ergonomics to work on an iPad, even with the pen. Impossible to work without strain in neck and arm. So I'm back to Macbook and I will never again attempt to edit video on an iPad.
- spectre3d 3y ago
  LumaFusion is great because it supports direct reading from and writing to external hard drives with a USB-C iPad. Agree on the touch interface, although I use a keyboard and trackpad with it.
joduplessis 3y ago
This is pretty awesome. Hopefully this can help motivate other DSP products go mobile. I would love Logic Pro + Neural DSP on an iPad.
nailer 3y ago
Do xcode next. I don't care how.
wilsonfiifi 3y ago
For anyone interested in how the iPad is actually used by professionals to make/produce music you can watch this video by youtuber Henny Tha Bizness. He has a great video on how he got started [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_1bRbC_lU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_1bRbC_lU
rcarr 3y ago
I think next month's WWDC and the AR goggles/glasses are really going to define how this decade plays out for Apple. There's clearly some kind of unification strategy going on behind the scenes but whether it's going to be good enough to win out over competitors or not is up in the air. Combos like NReal Air and Samsung Dex/Steam Deck are going to become more and more common and unless they get a move on I can see them falling behind the competition like Intel did. Stuff like this is kind of in the right direction but I do tend to be in agreement now with the people who say that we need an iPad with MacOS, or at least something that's leaning more towards MacOS than iPhone OS, especially on the large screen models.
- freedomben 3y ago
  IDK, Apple's brand loyalty is absolutely incredible. I know multiple people who will buy everything Apple makes, and if Apple doesn't make it they won't really consider it. Apple's strategy of letting other people validate markets and then coming in with a good product (like they did with the Apple watch for example) would likely not work for most companies, but it works great for Apple. They'd have to lose an insane amount of ground before they'd be at risk of being left behind. They also have enough cash that they could chase tail lights and do their not-original-but-better thing for decades. Fwiw I do hope you're right though. I think competition is badly needed.
  - rcarr 3y ago
    I probably fit into the Apple loyalist camp, I've currently got an Apple laptop, phone, tablet, smart speakers and TV and in the past I've also tried the watch, the AirPods and the iMac. I'm probably more tech orientated than the average consumer but, based on the products I've seen released outside of the Apple ecosystem the past year, it's the very first time in over a decade that I've been giving serious thought to switching. I'm thinking I can't be alone in this so I'm interested to see how this plays out.
- paulpan 3y ago
  100%. Whereas in the prior decade there were hardware limitations to device convergence (e.g. lack of CPU power, RAM), this is a no longer an issue and software is the roadblock is most cases. Ironically Apple threw open the doors when they not only put the M1 chip into the iPad Pro, but also into the iPad Air. One reason for this slow transition is likely due to the legacy software support requirements. Microsoft seems to have vastly overestimated the complexity involved in porting Windows OS to ARM through its many attempts: first with Windows RT, followed by Windows 10S, and most recently tighter developer hardware tie-in with Project Volterra. Apple probably isn't too keen to follow this playbook - opting instead to just keep iOS and macOS separate and gradually drop x86 support entirely from macOS. As an occasional Samsung Dex user, the benefit of having "one device to rule them all" is obvious and overall experience has been good. But to play devil's advocate, Samsung's revenues is heavily hardware-based so they'd much prefer to sell you multiple devices.
aloer 3y ago
Slightly unrelated: is there a way or an app to shoot 4k on iPhone or iPad and store it directly on external ssd? Apple often advertises their new pro phones with „professional“ level video production so I always assumed that is possible somehow
bravura 3y ago
I wanted to go iPad only for live music for a while, but found the supporting hardware to be lacking. (This was like five years ago.) I spent money on a dock that would allow me two audio inputs (microphone and guitar for example) and a USB jack for plugging in an external MIDI keyboard. The experience was somewhat janky and unreliable. I wonder if that has changed.
makz 3y ago
Why do they insist on making everything worse?
armchairhacker 3y ago
I was about to wish Apple had made Logic Pro free or cheap for students / hobbyists, and a $5/month subscription does that. I've want to get into sound design but not going to drop $1000s on software. Though I wish they'd do something like Kilohearts, where subscribing for enough time basically gives you a perpetual license (https://kilohearts.com/products/kilohearts_subscription#rewards https://kilohearts.com/products/kilohearts_subscription#rewa...). It's good because if I pick up something and then drop it I can just cancel the subscription, but if I decide to keep using it until I reach the price point I get to keep it.
- lostgame 3y ago
  To be fair - GarageBand is free, and while it’s feature set is obviously lethargic in comparison to Logic’s, I do like their philosophy of having kind of a free consumer and education version vs. a professional version. As a teenager I very successfully followed the path of using iMovie and GarageBand for a couple years until eventually I outgrew the feature set and wanted more. At the time; they sold what was called ‘Final Cut Express’ and ‘Logic Express’, which were essentially 95% feature complete versions of the software at a significantly reduced price aimed at the education and hobbyist market. It was a perfect little balance between affordability and power. Best of all, you could, and still can; open up iMovie projects in Final Cut and GarageBand projects in Logic - allowing you to actually flex more power if you need it in existing projects. This workflow was so fantastic, and I actually still use it sometimes when I’ve got musical ideas on the go and want to jot them down quickly with GarageBand on my iOS device.
earthnail 3y ago
Holy f**… how on earth will any other DAW vendor compete with that price? Logic already was crazy cheap, but now the price really just seems to be to boost iPad sales. It’s amazing what you get for $5/month here. But I’m a bit worried about innovation if everyone gets used to these prices.
- LegitShady 3y ago
  Reaper already competes at that price, just not on iOS.
  - earthnail 3y ago
    Yeah, but Reaper is nowhere as comprehensive as other DAWs in the field. I just haven’t seen much new lately. Of course, nobody needs 10 more compressor plugins, but I also haven’t really seen any innovation in Logic either. I’d like to see more competition. And I think it’s tricky at this price.
    - LegitShady 3y ago
      > Yeah, but Reaper is nowhere as comprehensive as other DAWs in the field. What do you mean by comprehensive? Included plugins/VSTs?
apercu 3y ago
Hm.. I have had Logic (OSX) for a while. It wasn't cheap but it was fairly priced. And they supported all you can eat upgrades (admittedly, not very many major versions). Sort of a bummer that it's a subscription model on iOS. That said, it's totally worth $49/yr if it's part of your workflow. For me, I'll just continue use a MacBook, until I can't.
nkotov 3y ago
I'm pretty excited about FCP and subscription model. I pay for Adobe CC and for videos, FCP always felt out of reach (couldn't justify spending $299) for me to tinker with and move past using iMovie for quick family edits.
WillAdams 3y ago
I wish Apple would just cut to the chase and make a tablet Mac --- not really loving Windows 11 on my Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360.
happytiger 3y ago
It really says a lot about the future of editing. Everyone doing it on their phones is growing up showing us what editing packages are going to look like… and it’s something like this. Big screen, touch interface, more fluid work flow, definitely going to be ai assisted… it’s interesting timing. I feel like Apple is going to do the magic they did for spell checking with the iPhone keyboard for professional video editing. Might take them a while but this fcp finally evolving to the iPad feels like the bellwhether. Anyone else see the trend? 3-4 generations down the line probably. But do you see it?
- sneak 3y ago
  No doubt with surveillance features built in. This is dangerous in the journalism/media production pipeline.
  - gehsty 3y ago
    Can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not? Apple products have been used to write articles / produce videos for decades, not sure why this is different on an iPad?
f0ld 3y ago
My dream come true! but.. can't afford that at the moment. I'll just use Garageband which works well. Just don't take that away. We'll get along alright.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
epolanski 3y ago
Can't lie. I don't love Apple products much but the appeal of using Logic Pro on a tablet isn't small.
nekdknff 3y ago
Remember when you could just buy software?
drexlspivey 3y ago
Do you get access to the mac version if you pay for a subscription?
pud 3y ago
Last week my company launched an iOS app that gets music into Apple Music and Spotify. Timing unintentional but neato that musicians can now record, distribute & promote all from the device. (not mentioning name of app cuz promotion, also we're not the only app that does this)
fortylove 3y ago
Davinci Resolve is arguably a better program, and is already available for the iPad. It is largely the same program as the desktop version, with a few exclusions that are actually easy to enable with a little research.
chillbill 3y ago
Apple can make it one-time fee and slightly lower than desktop software price. Sell custom addons and whatnot. Subscription model sucks.
efields 3y ago
Now one of the hardware companies needs to make a 2+/in/out digital audio interface _and_ usb c hub. Who needs this? The pro amateurs like me. I have a MiniFuse2 attached to a dongle with a synth and sometimes drum machine in there and it’s getting kind of wirey. It’s not as backpack friendly as it could be.
wslh 3y ago
D̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶i̶P̶a̶d̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶?̶ ̶I̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶s̶t̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶m̶ ̶f̶a̶c̶t̶o̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶i̶P̶a̶d̶ ̶M̶i̶n̶i̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶r̶i̶o̶u̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶.̶ I read that it works on >= M1 processor. It is at the end of [1] before the footer: "Final Cut Pro for iPad is available on the App Store. Requires an iPad with Apple M1 chip or later and iPadOS 16.4 or later. Downloading apps requires an Apple ID. To subscribe to Final Cut Pro for iPad you must have an internet connection." That is currently iPad Pro and iPad Air (10.9" display). [1] https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro-for-ipad/ https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro-for-ipad/
- keyboard_smash 3y ago
  According to the product pages[1][2], no for Final Cut but yes for Logic. > You can install Final Cut Pro for iPad on your 12.9-inch iPad Pro (5th or 6th generation), 11‑inch iPad Pro (3rd or 4th generation), or iPad Air (5th generation) with iPadOS 16.4 or later. > You can install Logic Pro for iPad on any iPad with the A12 Bionic chip or later and iPadOS 16.4 or later. [1]https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro-for-ipad/ https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro-for-ipad/ [2]https://www.apple.com/logic-pro-for-ipad/ https://www.apple.com/logic-pro-for-ipad/
  - wslh 3y ago
    BTW, what is a good online course to learn about video editing and music for using these apps? Not looking for being Mozart or Steven Spielberg though... just to play with some extra knowledge.
shp0ngle 3y ago
I hope Apple Watch is next
kccqzy 3y ago
As someone who started editing videos in the early 2010s when Final Cut Pro X was a beta and Final Cut Pro 7 was extremely expensive, I think the age of charging for video editing software is already over. FCP X was only $300. These days you can use DaVinci Resolve for free. Plenty of very good videos by independent creators on YouTube or TikTok are produced without spending a single cent on video editing software. I think Apple will regret this pricing decision and make the software free (as in beer) in a few years' time. I mean I paid for iWork 09 and iLife 09 and I was livid when Apple made them free but still I think that's the trend of where things are going.
lylo 3y ago
Really great to see these products on iPad, and with a relatively low price. I wonder whether we’ll ever see them reboot Aperture, even iPad only. Much as I like Lightroom Cloud, I‘d love to see Apple take it on.
alariccole 3y ago
My money is on a larger iPad (think Microsoft Studio) that takes the place of an iMac. Likely 15” at first, larger later. I really enjoy a keyboard and trackpad with an iPad and an external monitor. This would be my only machine if I could run Xcode/Terminal on it.

688 points by isomorph 3y ago

So is this "you buy it, you can now use it on MacOS and iOS"? Or is this one of those stupid "you buy it, and then you have to buy the for-iOS version separately a second time"?

wahnfrieden 3y ago

How does Logic compare with AUM?

_9hey 3y ago

You’ll own nothing and be happy /s

retskrad 3y ago

I’m sorry but not even the actors in the promo video in this announcement can sell the idea that video editing on a touch device is a good idea. No professional video editor will use Final Cut on the iPad. It’s horribly ineffcient. It feels like Apple has no idea what to do with the iPad Pro. The product hasn’t evolved at all since 2018.

mavhc 3y ago
Their idea is: add a mouse and keyboard option
elliottkember 3y ago
Have you seen the magic keyboard accessory? With the trackpad and keyboard?
- Tepix 3y ago
  At the ridiculous price they are charging for it, it might as well not exist.
  - asutekku 3y ago
    While the price might be ridiculous for you, the price is not ridiculous for the people in the market for it.
throw74774 3y ago
Dunno - touch devices are already very popular for music editing and production. No reason they shouldn’t be for video too.
vuln 3y ago
> It feels like Apple has no idea what to do with the iPad Pro. 100% this. I have an iPad Pro. If I want to plug it into a projector via USBC or a Dock I must ALSO connect a Bluetooth speaker device as the iPad will not allow use the internal speakers on the iPad while connected to an external _display_ fucking madness.
- mvanbaak 3y ago
  yeah, because you want to use the internal speaker while watching the video on a projector screen ... I understand what you are saying, and it sucks indeed, but there are other systems that have exactly the same 'problem' and in real life this is a problem for the minority of people. apple sells to the masses, and they will do what the majority of the people want/need/use. Sure, it sux if you dont fit in that group, but that has been the thing with most big vendors of things.
  - dbspin 3y ago
    It's a problem for anyone trying to give a presentation in an educational or office environment - local sound solutions on projectors in small offices and small classrooms are often (probably 70% of the time in my experience) non functional.
    - mvanbaak 3y ago
      iPad speakers in a classroom is not going to cut it, they are nowhere near powerful enough. in an office environment you can use the tv audio, or the video conferencing unit (in my experience even a 10man shop has those). again, for the very small percentage of people that fall outside of the 'masses' it is a problem, and I totally understand that. But none of the big brands care about the use cases that are not the masses. So you can blame apple, but look around and blame all the others as well.
      - vuln 3y ago
        The iPad Pro has 4 speakers. You seem so matter of fact with your opinion. How big is the classroom in your mind? Video conferencing units like you bring up most of the time need separate drivers, or an app to connect. Should I have all these different teleconferencing apps on my iPad in case I show up to a client that uses xyz model? What happened to apple’s “it just works”
Tagbert 3y ago
The iPad is no longer touch-only. Since Apple added support for pencil, mouse/trackpad and brought out more keyboards, the iPad is a multi-model input device.
- mattwad 3y ago
  True but it's not very good as a laptop replacement. It's much more expensive than an Air and can't run the same apps. While doing my research it seemed a lot of people either already had a laptop or preferred to have a laptop if they had to pick one. This is coming from a Surface 5 user - I gave up eventually because it was never powerful enough, but it is a much better approach to multi-input laptop replacement since it can run anything.
  - mvanbaak 3y ago
    It is not a laptop replacement. And apple does not design it to be one. It's a very nice device to have next to your Mac Studio / Mac Pro to do your work while not at your desk. The creative possibilities of the iPad are spectacular. The ease of maintaining one is 100x bigger than a notebook. it's simply another type of device, not a replacement.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      > It's a very nice device to have next to your Mac Studio / Mac Pro to do your work while not at your desk. I'm kinda curious - what does it do that my laptop can't? Am I missing out on anything by bringing a full computer with me when I have to work? I've got an iPad (an older one) and it's just about completely useless for me. It doesn't support my file syncing app, it insists on using it's own file formats, it doesn't trust me to install apps and doesn't have enough builtin IO to charge and use a mouse at the same time. Lugging around a second Mac seems like a much more seamless experience to me.
      - mvanbaak 3y ago
        I can only respond based on my experience. 1. Personally, an iPad for me is just another nice gadget. I'm a developer and I want my MacBook 2. The iPad has a lot of things less technical people prefer over a notebook: 2.1 - easy of / lack of - maintenance. It just works, you click the home button and it works, things are simply there 2.2 - battery life. iPad wins hands down from all other alternatives 2.3 - pencil. both for creative work as for boring office work and signing contracts 2.4 - games for the kids/pets. Roadtrip? waiting for the doctors appointment? anything? give them the iPad and have them kill time with $random thing 2.5 - support. No matter what the problem is, walk into an Apple Store and have it fixed. (I know some parts of the world have different service, but at least here in .nl its perfect)
ancientworldnow 3y ago
No serious professional wants to use FCP in the first place.
- brookst 3y ago
  Out of all of the people in the world who do at least a few hours of video editing a year, what percent do you think are Serious Professionals?
- starkparker 3y ago
  Aww, that's not true. Serious professionals want to use FCP 7.
- mannyv 3y ago
  From what I understand a large number of video people are wedding/event people...which makes sense, because there aren't that many TV shows. While I doubt they'll be editing on-site, now they can with their IPP instead of their MBP. People work where they want to and jow they want to. If the tool works for you, go for it.
madeofpalk 3y ago
> No professional video editor will use Final Cut on the iPad Maybe it's for other people then?
edude03 3y ago
This is basically the "no true Scotsman" argument. Your definition of professional video editor seems to not include people like YouTube/TikTok/Instagram content creators who are already "professionally editing" videos on their phones and iPads and making good money I might add.

tomduncalf 3y ago

Wow, huge. Can’t wait to try Logic Pro. The iPad is a fantastic device for music making in many ways with lots of amazing apps, but I’ve never been happy with any of the “full fat” DAW options. Hopefully Apple have nailed the usability and flexibility - $49/year is a reasonable price to pay in my mind if so.

cpuguy83 3y ago
Seriously amazing price assuming it is as capable as the desktop versions. I pay more for Fantasical than this costs.

nottorp 3y ago

They're also bringing the subscription pricing model...

throw_m239339 3y ago
Yeah, subscription sucks. $200 bucks for Logic and Final cuts desktop is such a nice deal. Final Cut used to be like $1000+ bucks and Logic $800+ or something.
brookst 3y ago
I'd much rather pay $50/year and get perpetual updates than the old price of $199 one time. Yes, I'd rather pay $5 one time and get free updates forever, but I just can't see complaining about $4/month for anything I get ongoing value from.
- nottorp 3y ago
  You like losing access when you cancel the subscription? Or when an older device is cut off from the app store?
  - zuppy 3y ago
    what older device is cut off from the app store? you get to keep that version that you have and the subscription will go on.
    - nottorp 3y ago
      You can see into the future?
      - zuppy 3y ago
        no, i can see into the past and you're being disingenuous. this is the current way that older apps are supported, and compared to android, apple provides longest support for older os versions. the ones that are not supporten anymore get to keep (and download) the latest compatible version of the app. i had a device where i tested that.

dagmx 3y ago

Having a full DAW on the go is a killer feature imho. The promise has been there since stuff like 8tracks on the iPhone 3G, and various Audio Units already on iOS. But I’ve always found the workflow very limiting or clunky. (Edit: I’m a Logic Pro user on macOS so my comments reflect getting things into that specifically) The divide from putting down an idea when it hits, to working it into something, has always been really high. Having something where I can potentially work out an idea with just my iPad , and then take it to my desktop is really exciting to me. FCPX seems neat as well. I doubt it’ll be something people use in touch mode, but I can see some folks using it for quick on the go edits for things like social media stings. Go to an event, shoot, edit and upload. I don’t see it being used for more than that level of work. But also, as much as both the things I mentioned are very spur of the moment things, I think the real value here is having a step ladder through the ecosystem. A lot of people, especially youths, only need an iPad for more of their computing use. Having more pro apps on the iPad signals to them that they can shift more of their computer life to it. A lot may just even need to add a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Conversely, the people who do want to use it more seriously after whetting their teeth on the mobile platform, will then see the Mac as the next logical stepping point. It’s a smart way imho to get people on either side of the fence to consider the other side.

meghan_rain 3y ago
> Having a full DAW on the go is a killer feature imho. Macbook?
- dagmx 3y ago
  I guess I should expand why not a laptop, but it boils down to removing lots of little friction points that make ephemeral ideas harder to put down. 1. Touch first is important because your instruments are touch as well. Being able to record my live instruments and not have to switch to a trackpad to move between UI elements seems small, but it really keeps me in the zone. 2. Same point above, but basically being able to switch between my live instrument and an on screen virtual one is a big deal to layer up an idea. Can’t do that easily with a trackpad or mouse. 3. There’s something to be said for the mobile platforms single app as a focus model. I know you can full screen a Mac app, or split screen on an iPad, but having a singular focus helps reduce distractions. 4. Weight/portability are quite different. Maybe a MacBook Air would be better, but I take my iPad Pro to more places with me than I take my much heavier MacBook Pro . I’m already taking it to draw on the go, so this is just one more thing I can do without needing to buy a new device or take a heavier one. Edit: oh and number 5 is a big one. I can put my iPad Pro in my existing music stand that works for me at multiple heigh levels. There are laptop stands that might work too, but I already use my iPad for sheet music, so it’s already a convenient setup.

silveira 3y ago

Subscription. I'm out. I already paid for these softwares on Mac and I don't get even a discount in the price. I was expecting some kind of upgrade option.

tgv 3y ago
I don't think it's aimed at the same market. I mean: I can run large sample libraries on my MBP, but I don't see that happen any time soon on an iPad. There's not enough disk space, and I don't see the whole NI library eco-system adapt itself to iOS (let alone custom players like EastWest or Spitfire). But it's a great option for people who've outgrown GarageBand.
m3kw9 3y ago
Why would you want to use iPad version if you already using it for Mac? It’s a big pain due to the file system and storage limitations. The ipad version is aimed more at non professional use but still giving them professional features. Would never touch ipad version, totally different use case. You won’t see Hollywood types saying I’m gonna use this because, because it’s touch screen
- _joel 3y ago
  Why wouldn't you, very similar workflow and more portable. For sketching ideas you don't need multi terrabyte Kontakt plugins.
  - m3kw9 3y ago
    If you just want to sketch ideas, garage band could be enough. I mean both a Mac and iPad are quite portable, but i do see if you just want to professionally develop music on the cheap, iPad it is, you will have a hard time with the screen size however if you want to anything with many instruments and tracks
    - _joel 3y ago
      Yea, granted. I don't have any issues carrying my m2 air about for writing but it's still a bit cumbersome vs. ipad and I'll be trying out the new version for sure. Just seems complimentary rather than binary.

ricardobeat 3y ago

I'm positively surprised by the pricing. While I still prefer outright buying apps instead of subscriptions, last time I paid €230 for Logic on desktop (and it used to cost even more), this new sub would take four years to match that. This massively lowers the cost of entry especially for countries with devalued currency against the USD.

tjr225 3y ago
And 199$ is already an insanely good deal for what you get.
mullen 3y ago
$49 a year is pretty damn cheap in IMHO. Also, when the new version comes out, you don't have to put another lump of cash up front to get it, you just upgrade your subscription and get the new version. Something better comes along? Just cancel the subscription and switch to the new software. The fear of "being too invested in a software package" basically goes away. I think this is a good move on Apples part and the customers part on several levels.

NickC25 3y ago

Neat....although sad that it's via a subscription model, rather than buying the program outright. That said, what's the point of this? Everyone works off laptops already, even people new to A/V production. Especially in the audio world, laptops are just so much more convenient because you can host 3rd party plugins and other stuff like sample libraries. Can't do that on an iPad, can you?

mortenjorck 3y ago
There is a whole audio plugin ecosystem on iOS (AUv3), but I think your point still stands. Anecdotally, I use my iPad for music production, but it’s a very different kind of context and process from what I do on my Mac. On the laptop, I’m typically producing full tracks in Ableton Live, while on my iPad, it’s more “jamming” in apps like Drambo or AUM, something closer in spirit to a “DAWless” hardware setup. Logic Pro on iOS doesn’t hold any appeal for me as that’s just not the kind of workflow I value the iPad for.
- tomduncalf 3y ago
  I have the same workflow as you, using Drambo or AUM, but I do love the idea of being able to "finish" a track on the iPad. Granted the laptop will probably always be more powerful and perhaps a better interface for precision editing, but to be able to do it all on the go on one very portable device would be pretty cool IMO.
- NickC25 3y ago
  I use iMaschine, GarageBand and occasionally FL Studio Mobile on my iPhone. All great apps, but all are limited. Can't beat using Live on the desktop/laptop. Great for getting one's feet wet, or for ideas that spring to mind when you hear something cool on the street or on the train or whatever. Hear something, record it, manipulate it, and make a quick beat or riff on the spot. However, like you, that's just a small part of the process, and if one wants to do something more with the sound they recorded, it needs to be moved to a more powerful platform - in this case a laptop. A DAW on the iPad is neat, but kind of stuck between usecases.
3y ago

Curzel 3y ago

I don't get it. People have been wondering when this would happen since the very first iPad Pro, so lots of people will be happy now... Even assuming all the required horse power is there, I still don't get it... Maybe I'm getting old.

wilsonnb3 3y ago
There are a few reasons that I am excited for this, none of which have to do with actually using logic pro or final cut on an ipad. 1. This is an excellent signal that iPads can get "real" software now, hopefully more companies start porting their desktop mac software to iPadOS 2. Apple will continute to keep MacOS and iPadOS separate rather than trying to combine them like a lot of people on the internet think they want, which is good. 3. WWDC is going to be an absolute banger this year if they are announcing something like this in a press release.
- eliseomartelli 3y ago
  I'm really excited for point 3. I really wish iOS opens up to accept a real terminal. I know iSH exists but it runs using usermode x86 emulation.
  - adrusi 3y ago
    You can sideload UTM if you sign it with your own developer key, and run VMs with JIT-based acceleration. It’ll sometimes get killed by the OS without much you can do about it though.
runlevel1 3y ago
> Even assuming all the required horse power is there, I still don't get it... Looks like the latest generation of iPad Pro and MacBook Air have comparable CPU benchmarks.[^1][^2] I'm with you in not getting it, though. Editing video on an iPad seems like it'd be a frustratingly constrained affair due to the UI. But I might just be getting old too. [1]: https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-air-2022 https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-air-2022 [2]: https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/ipad14-5 https://browser.geekbench.com/ios_devices/ipad14-5

ricokatayama 3y ago

I'm still a bit skeptical about Logic's ability to be a full-featured DAW on the iPad. The move is great, but we need to tackle several challenges to make it suitable for final editing rather than just a work support tool: - It needs to have open and comprehensive plugin support - The workflow for uploading and exporting content needs to be seamless, and the iPad OS is still limited in this regard - Screen size and real estate are still a concern - Ready-to-use ecosystems for operating with the iPad, such as interfaces, audio monitors, etc., need to be developed. I love the idea of being able to record, create, edit, and mix on the go, but I've kind of moved away from the DAW paradigm on tablets. Today, I focus my workflow on a Dawless idea, with the M8, Digitakt, Organelle, OP-1, and several other devices. More expensive? Definitely! But it fits my creative mode.

intrasight 3y ago
> skeptical about Logic's ability to be a full-featured DAW It won't be full-featured - it doesn't have to be to make a huge impact. For example, as a new platform for live performances, it will be pretty awesome.
tomduncalf 3y ago
> It needs to have open and comprehensive plugin support iOS has a thriving plugin scene, using the AUv3 (Audio Unit) format. Search the App Store for "AUv3" and check out the huge range of synths, effects, etc. In addition to smaller devs, there are some big players who have ported their flagship plugins (FabFilter, Eventide etc.) > The workflow for uploading and exporting content needs to be seamless, and the iPad OS is still limited in this regard It is much better since Files was added to iOS, though still a bit clunky. Their page (https://www.apple.com/logic-pro-for-ipad/ https://www.apple.com/logic-pro-for-ipad/) advertises "roundtrip compatibility" so hopefully they've made this easy > Screen size and real estate are still a concern Definitely a valid point, maybe this is the catalyst for a 15" iPad! > Ready-to-use ecosystems for operating with the iPad, such as interfaces, audio monitors, etc., need to be developed. Any class-compliant USB device will work with an iPad (or iPhone), so most audio interfaces, MIDI keyboards, etc. should be good to go. It only won't work if it requires a custom driver

buildbuildbuild 3y ago

A fun toy. Until the long list of third party pro audio interface drivers and plug-ins work on iPad, this will only be useful for the (large) prosumer market. It would be killer if this supported Dante over Ethernet at 96khz.

birdyrooster 3y ago

Just when I was thinking about selling my iPad

oger 3y ago

Interesting: Apple is moving their apps to a subscription model. „ Pricing and Availability Starting Tuesday, May 23, Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro for iPad will each be available on the App Store for $4.99 (US) per month or $49 (US) per year with a one-month free trial.8 Final Cut Pro is compatible with M1 chip iPad models or later, and Logic Pro will be available on A12 Bionic chip iPad models or later. Final Cut Pro for iPad and Logic Pro for iPad require iPadOS 16.4. For more information, visit apple.com/final-cut-pro-for-ipad and apple.com/logic-pro-for-ipad.“

Kognito 3y ago
Interesting change, I do wonder if the Mac apps will follow suit.
- tigeroil 3y ago
  My guess, based on the fact that Logic Pro and FCP, in the nicest way I can say this, haven't had any meaningful core upgrades in a while, is that they're planning some fairly major updates on macOS for both and the plan is to release them as new, subscription-only versions later this year.
  - Applejinx 3y ago
    Glad I moved to Reaper, then. Mind you, I'm still running Final Cut for video making. Hope I don't have to bail on that too. I'll keep running the version I have, but much like I don't use Adobe at all, I won't run such a program if I have to rent it. Exception, XCode :D most certainly have to pay yearly for that! But I view it as paying for authorization as an Apple dev, not so much as 'for the app itself'.
    - mynameisvlad 3y ago
      You can download XCode without a dev membership, so you're definitely not paying for it either way.

vrglvrglvrgl 3y ago

[dead]

basisword 3y ago

So many “I don’t get it” comments in this thread. And complaints about the subscription pricing. The market for this seems pretty obvious - teenagers. iPad seems like the default computer for kids these days and kids like to create. When I was a teenager I had to build my own PC, struggle to pirate Cubase and some plugins and it was a nightmare. When I finally got a MacBook Logic being $200 was out of reach still. A subscription makes it affordable for the people who are going to use it on a tablet. The same thought applies for teenagers trying to make YouTube videos. Now they can legally and easily use the professional tools on hardware they already own.

rebolek 3y ago
People have different nightmares. My nightmare is yet another subscription.
- basisword 3y ago
  Then you’re probably not the target market. I would have loved this when I was younger and $5 a month was easy/$200 one off was impossible.
  - mirkules 3y ago
    It is usually not billed monthly. They SAY it’s $5/month, but your actual price is $60 right now, for a whole year. That’s a huge difference. You’re paying a good portion of full price, with the “benefit” of having it stop working after a year.
  - tombert 3y ago
    I kind of wish they'd have an option for both. ToonBoom Harmony still lets you do that (though they kind of obscure that on their website). You have the option of paying $71/month for Harmony Advanced, or $1130 for a perpetual license. It would be nice for people to do something similar with Logic; you can pay for a subscription, or you can pay a flat rate to own something forever; I'm personally kind of turned off by products that do not offer perpetual licenses.
3y ago

nxpnsv 3y ago

I guess my mac logic pro license won’t cover the iPad version, right?

drcongo 3y ago
Doesn't look like it, which is a shame. Extra annoying that this is a subscription too.
samstave 3y ago
This has always bothered me, in general, take games for example ; if I pay $70 for a game on the PS5, why cant I run same game on my PC? I bought the game, not the platform. FU - I am paying for running the 'license' of the game on a given GPU/CPU? its Oracle Licensing policy, recall when Oracle tied your DB lic to a CPU? Fuck that.
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  You didn't even buy a game, you but a license to a game. One that often can't even be resold like normal licensed wares. Luckily, piracy remains an option if you're willing to download patches manually.

theodric 3y ago

"...will be available on the App Store as subscriptions..." That's a hard pass from me, dawg. I refuse to subscribe to an app for a hobby.

recursive 3y ago

Allegedly this supports audio interfaces, so I presume it's supposed to able to be used for recording. What kind of latency can be achieved by ipad hardware? This announcement is mysteriously quiet about that.

CharlesW 3y ago
> What kind of latency can be achieved by ipad hardware? This is old, but ~11ms seems typical: https://onyx3.com/LatencyMeter/ios-audio-guitar-interfaces-latency.html https://onyx3.com/LatencyMeter/ios-audio-guitar-interfaces-l... This site also documents 11ms round-trip latency with an iRig on an iPad 2: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html
LegitShady 3y ago
iPad already supported class compliant audio interfaces.
- recursive 3y ago
  Interesting fact, although it also doesn't provide any information about latency.
  - LegitShady 3y ago
    When I have a bit of time later this evening I'll plug my presonus into the my ipad and see if any of the daws I have on there can measure it. It's not an m1 ipad though - 2018 pro.

spankalee 3y ago

Logic will do for now, but I really want MainStage for the iPad. MainStage is one of the best collections of synths you can get, much less for $29, and being able to gig with it small touch-screen hardware like an iPad mini would be incredible. I'm all in on Android, but would but an iPad just for music.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

evo_9 3y ago

Hey Ableton you paying attention? Now would be a good time to bring Live to the iPad and include a virtual Push 2.

trollied 3y ago
QT is available for iOS, so I guess it's doable...
jrajav 3y ago
They just released Ableton Note for iOS, which is absolutely nothing like Live and clearly shares no code nor is meant to grow into it, so I wouldn't hold my breath that they plan anything else in that space soon.

Audiophilip 3y ago

Now I just wish iPads would have an audio jack so that I could plug in my headphone while using Logic.

xattt 3y ago
Echoing other comments explaining why this release is a good development … If you need headphones or a speaker to hear sounds you create, you are not the target demographic.
- bannedbybros 3y ago
  [dead]
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  ... surely most people will be using an audio interface anyway?
- JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
  His point (that you and the other commenters are intentionally ignoring) is that he could be the target demographic, if Apple had made their mobile platform a little more flexible/"pro".
  - xattt 3y ago
    I missed the /s tag. Of course any sane musician would want to hear the sounds they are creating. Other comments in this thread saying that a specific concern is inappropriate because something something target demographic are snobbish.

bookaway 3y ago

Am I the only one that finds the process of getting files of a decent size from non-Apple devices to Apple mobile devices incredibly frustrating, almost enough to be a deal breaker? What is the current best practice for the fastest way to get video files on an IPad as of now?

DamnInteresting 3y ago
It's not just non-Apple devices. I use my iPad to make music and sketches, and sometimes I need to move files between my iPad and MacBook. Airdrop almost never works, and transferring in the Files app is confusing--sometimes the file won't appear in the relevant app, or sometimes it appears twice, and it's not clear which is the newer version. I often resort to emailing the files back and forth to myself as attachments, which is not ideal. If anyone knows of a better way to move files to and from an iPad, I would be delighted to hear it.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  Not been an Apple user since a little while after Steve Jobs passed away, but this is in stark contrast to what people usually say about Airdrop. What I usually hear is that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread and how everybody should be using it.
  - lostgame 3y ago
    Wow. I’ve seriously actually never heard that once in 15+ years of being a Mac developer and using them full time. I’ve never actually heard anyone, in real life; or offline, recommend, suggest; or even say one single positive thing about AirDrop essentially since its release. It’s easily the most unreliable piece of software integrated into the MacOS/iOS platform, just a feature that has been so fundamentally broken since it’s introduction that it makes me wonder why it exists at all. It’s definitely below 50% on the times it actually works as intended - given any network configuration, combinations of Macs or OS versions…nothing really seems to even consistently affect its continual failure. AirDrop not working, is the expected result of using the software. As of Ventura I’ve not noticed any improvement in the feature’s functionality since it’s introduction.

yehia2amer 3y ago

Next —> Xcode

rantee 3y ago

Nice. Now do Xcode!

rajbot 3y ago

Although I understand the reasoning, I’m sad to see the move to subscription pricing. I bought Final Cut and Logic a long time ago in the Mac App Store, and now my kids get to use them through Family Sharing. One of them has written hundreds of songs in Logic and published an album. The one-time purchase of Final Cut and Logic with Family Sharing and a lifetime of upgrades has been such an unbelievable value for such powerful software.

rchaud 3y ago
I'm against subscriptions generally, but $50/yr is significantly cheaper than the $299 for Final Cut Pro X or whatever it is they offered previously.
- rajbot 3y ago
  It’s not. I bought FCP X in 2011 for $299. If you are just counting my own usage, that is $25/yr over the last 12 years, but I get to keep using for many more years, and both my kids use it through family sharing as well, so we are down to $5/year per person or less, without having to mess with yet another subscription. I used to work on a competing product, and subscription pricing will work better for most people who are in this market, so my personal use case is an outlier I know. Edit: all that said, I’m excited to be the first person to subscribe to Logic on the iPad. I hope that subscription is Family Sharing enabled as well!
- jonhohle 3y ago
  The cost may be cheaper over $time_period (debatable), but in one case you have fully functional software and in the other you have nothing. I know Adobe has “proven” pros will take subscription software and like it, but for every day users who like to mess around now and then, I have no interest in a perpetual subscription.
- trinix912 3y ago
  At some point the Final Cut Studio package was like $1000. Still not as bad as AVID back then…
3y ago

jonhohle 3y ago

Subscription! Even Apple has fallen. This is really disappointing.

MuffinFlavored 3y ago
$5/mo for top of the line software that will continue to get updates + new features + bug fixes is "really disappointing"?
- g105b 3y ago
  Yes. The software will not receive updates forever. The Ipad will not receive updates forever. One day, this software will force the user to buy more Apple devices to continue using it.
  - eurekin 3y ago
    Adobe subscriptions are nice examples of bad management, no long standing significant bug was fixed and they mostly seem to add toys around the fringes (cloud based neural filters for example)
    - astrange 3y ago
      Adobe can't ever change any of their old filters for compatibility reasons (or because they believe they're "not really broken".) Approximately all the math in Photoshop is wrong because it's not done in linear colorspace, the image resizing algorithms were bad for 1980, etc, but they can't change them. Lightroom introduced a new better ML demosaic for raw photos, but they can't just replace the old one, instead it's a different "enhance photo" option.
  - anaganisk 3y ago
    Don't u just end the subscription at that point? What am I missing.
    - EnigmaCurry 3y ago

whywhywhywhy 3y ago

As the years go by, the entirely different OS for tablets vs laptops which at first seemed like the only route to get a quality experience seems like a huge misstep now the tablets all have keyboards and trackpads stuck to them when used for work.

hammyhavoc 3y ago
We made a worse laptop.

ericzawo 3y ago

A subscription for Logic is nuts. It's already $300 software for the Mac. I would be fine paying another one-time fee if it meant I had it forever on my iPad. It really is stellar software, as evidenced by it's two-decade presence in the industry, but to move to subscription feels very... un-Apple (at least in this Professional Media Software context).

jonhohle 3y ago
iPads have an archival problem already, and this just exacerbated it. If I’m a studio and want to throw a project into a vault somewhere with hopes of retrieving it in a decade, the iPadOS/iOS software model makes it impossible to get back to a specific configuration without freezing a specific device. Now throwing a subscriptionmm no on top of it, this is at best good for throw away projects that are done, pushed out, and never looked at again (from an editing perspective). This is really mind boggling.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  Film and TV scores in Logic from the early '00s regularly get opened for sequels, prequels, interquels, reboots, remasters et al. I don't use Logic anymore, but when I did, that's one of the things that impressed me. Logic on iOS? Could be an entirely different story as it relies on other apps as plugins that may change. Just to err on the side of caution, assume that if it isn't saved as audio or MIDI, you'll probably be screwed.
TheRealPomax 3y ago
It's $199. It's only ever been $499 until 2013, when the price suddently dropped to $199, and it has been that ever since. Logic Pro is ridiculously cheap compared to most other DAW out there. There aren't tiers, there's no upsell to unlock basic features like unlimited tracks, it's just a full featured DAW, the end. Heack, a license for the "full feature, but not bundle-padded, version of X" costs: - Reason: $60 (personal/limited commercial license) - Renoise: $75 (and is the only tracker-style DAW) - Tracktion Waveform: $149 - FL Studio: $199 (thankfully) - Reaper: $225 (unlimited commercial license, by the time you need this, you already have seven other DAW already, too) - Cubase: $329 - Studio One: $399 - Bitwig Studio: $399 - Ableton: $449 - Reason: $499 - Pro Tools: $499 So it's a great deal! ... ...but... ...$199 is also extreme expensive for people who bought a second hand mac, or have a hand-me-down ipad, and don't have two hundred dollars to casually spend on something they never played with because it's been out of reach due to a sky-high price. A subscription for Logic is the complete opposite of nuts. At $5 a month, someone can use Logic for 40 months before it would have been cheaper to buy it up front. That's more than three years, but which time you either know this is what you love, or you stopped using it already and moved on to another hobby. Heck, at $45 a year, that's four or even five years. Plenty of time to get your priorities straight and start saving if audio work brings you joy. The audio crowd got used to incredibly high prices for software, $100+ for an app or even plugin is considered "normal", and has made it completely impossible for kids or just people without disposable income to get into. Everyone knows this, which is why everyone who actually cares to get those folks into their ecosystem either dropped their prices, or now offers a subscription model in addition to buying a perpetual license for a specific version. And in an ecosystem where subscriptions are $9.99/mo (which they pretty much all are), $5/mo is a power move.

dan_pixelflow 3y ago

At $50 a year (equates to $4 a month if paid annually), this is - albeit a subscription model - so much better than Adobe's £20 a month plan for just Premiere (obviously to get you to go for the £50 a month plan). It's a much better plan and I hope things like this make Adobe consider their costs. It's a big ask and I know they won't... but you can hope.

charcircuit 3y ago
Premiere is $31.49 per month on the month plan. The annual plan paid monthly is $20.99 per month. For all apps is $82.49 pel month on them monthly plan.
ww520 3y ago
I use the free version of Davinci Resolve to edit videos for a few occasions. It's amazingly good. Easy to learn and easy to use. Quite impressive with the feature sets.
- speedgoose 3y ago
  The color editor using nodes is particularly powerful, and you can even export .cube LUT files. I now use it to edit my pictures too.
  - jamiedumont 3y ago
    I'd love to hear more about this! I'm a photographer but look on jealously at Davinci. Black Magic got so much right with the design (and business model) of their software. How does it work for images?
    - ww520 3y ago
      Davinci Resolve just treats photos as another source media. When added to a timeline, the photo got repeated as a still image throughout the timeline. You can apply color and filter transformation to the timeline as usual. Export a frame from the timeline as image at the end for output. See this for working on photos, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHhklKCBC0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHhklKCBC0s

NikolaNovak 3y ago

This is great, but why not just have Garage Band work the same / be the same on both platforms? I'm a PC user; few years ago I realized how great iPad GarageBand was for playing around. Like an idiot, I literally purchased a used MacBook so I can edit my iPad travelling doodles at home with big screen as well, only to realize that they are different software with different capabilities and you cannot seamlessly copy projects from one to another. I openly admit I'm an idiot for jumping in like that, but for all the discussion on how user friendly and seamless Apple ecosystem is, I still don't think it was a ridiculous assumption to make :-/

shp0ngle 3y ago
You cannot? Huh I am an Apple ecosystem guy and the assumption that GarageBand on iPadOS and GarageBand on macOS will be compatible is really a reasonable one; I would think it’s the case!!
- lostgame 3y ago
  It is not. You can open iOS/iPadOS GarageBand files in MacOS, but you cannot open MacOS GarageBand files on iOS/iPadOS.
  - spectre3d 3y ago
    True, but you can open macOS Logic Pro files in GarageBand on iOS. [1] [1] https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/logicpro/lgcpa81aa804/mac https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/logicpro/lgcpa81aa804/...
mattl 3y ago
Is iPad GarageBand different from iPhone GarageBand? Or are they the same app?
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  I believe iphone and iPad to be the same and Macbook to be different.

clint 3y ago

[flagged]

throw_m239339 3y ago
> while _actual_ creative professionals will more than willingly pay $5/mo and love every minute of it. I doubt that: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/30/23662000/waves-audio-engineering-plugins-subscription-creative-access-perpetual-license https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/30/23662000/waves-audio-engi... > Music producers revolted against an app’s subscription scheme — and won Actual Music producers hate subscription schemes.
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  Yes, but one of these was a plugin for $25/mo and the other is the whole damn tool to do your job for $5 a month on a device you couldn't run it on in the past. I expect it to not actually be bashed.
  - archerx 3y ago
    At first I was excited to see Logic pro on the Ipad but as soon as I saw subscription my excitement instantly died. I'll just stick with Garageband on the Ipad for my basic music needs. Same thing happened with Adobe, I was a die hard Premiere pro fan and now I haven't used it in years since I moved to Davinci Resolve all because Adobe went all in on subs.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    $5/mo is waaaayyyy less than I’ve paid for Ableton Live on average. It’s not in quite the same space as Logic Pro, but you can credibly lump them in as “professional music production software”.
  - mejutoco 3y ago
    What happens when the subscription increases in price and your workflow depends on it?
- 3y ago

deofoo 3y ago

Where is the innovation? Such a disappointment.

hammyhavoc 3y ago
Well, what were you expecting? Can you describe what innovation looks like?
- tonetheman 3y ago
  [dead]

tshaddox 3y ago

I’m looking forward to seeing the feature set. I recently tried out a few of the iPad DAWs and wasn’t able to find anything that could even correctly record and edit MIDI and also automate tempo (like MacOS Logic Pro’s tempo track).

tm-guimaraes 3y ago

More companies should just adopt Jetbrains model. Month subscription available, but by paying the annual subscription you get a perpetual license for the last release covered by your purchase, which makes an annual subscription pretty much the same as "buy with 1 year of updates".

Someone1234 3y ago
iOS devices don't support downloading specific versions of apps, and you cannot sideload. Apple has made this model impossible on iOS.
- scarface74 3y ago
  Actually it does. If you have a device that doesn’t support the newest version of the app, you can choose to “download the last compatible version”
  - ianlevesque 3y ago
    That isn’t enough to enable this business model.
    - scarface74 3y ago
      It would be simple enough (yes I know I sound like a product manager” to add another rule to allow someone to download the last version they are eligible for. Apple keeps all of the previous versions of apps. They use to be available via a simple url.
      - zamadatix 3y ago
        The problem isn't the lack of possible way to do it well rather the lack of implemented way to do it well.
      - threeseed 3y ago
        There is a major update to iOS every single year and many older application simply wouldn't run. Bad experience for users, developers and Apple.

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

I'll pick up the app (I have it on my Mac), once I get an M1 iPad (which may be a while). Give them some time to work out the bugs.

nchase 3y ago

This is exciting. I'd love it if they opened the iPad up to tools like Rogue Amoeba's Loopback[1], because a tool that allows audio capture from the device is critical for any sampling workflow. I'm not holding my breath, but that would complete the dream, for me. [1]: https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/ https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/

bjustin 3y ago

I am surprised to see these are subscriptions when the Mac versions are one-time purchases. I wonder if they will make the subscriptions work for both these new iPad versions as well as for the Mac versions of the apps.

valgaze 3y ago

A VR analyst observed the port could also be related to future headset: https://twitter.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/1655934858307469312 https://twitter.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/16559348583074693... "This is notable because the Apple headset is supposed to support every iPad app on Day 1 of its launch If you want professionals to do things with it, you need the software to push it. With or without a connected PC"

zorrobyte 3y ago

"Get 1 month free, then pay $4.99/month or $49 annually.*" WTF is this?

hn_throawlles 3y ago

now they can really shut down their other MacOS, the one with a BSD licensed kernel,.... where is your open source support now? outbid by data-capitalists is where it is,

nbzso 3y ago

I saw this "trend" long time ago. Switched to Resolve and Studio One. Call me an old head, but there is something in using multiple displays and knowing that your software is platform-agnostic. :)

mwidell 3y ago

There is a great app for iPad called LumaFusion, which is very similar to Final Cut. I tried using an iPad Pro for a couple of weeks when it came out, to see if it can replace a laptop or desktop. Biggest problem was ergonomics. So incredibly bad ergonomics to work on an iPad, even with the pen. Impossible to work without strain in neck and arm. So I'm back to Macbook and I will never again attempt to edit video on an iPad.

spectre3d 3y ago
LumaFusion is great because it supports direct reading from and writing to external hard drives with a USB-C iPad. Agree on the touch interface, although I use a keyboard and trackpad with it.

joduplessis 3y ago

This is pretty awesome. Hopefully this can help motivate other DSP products go mobile. I would love Logic Pro + Neural DSP on an iPad.

nailer 3y ago

Do xcode next. I don't care how.

wilsonfiifi 3y ago

For anyone interested in how the iPad is actually used by professionals to make/produce music you can watch this video by youtuber Henny Tha Bizness. He has a great video on how he got started [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_1bRbC_lU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_1bRbC_lU

rcarr 3y ago

I think next month's WWDC and the AR goggles/glasses are really going to define how this decade plays out for Apple. There's clearly some kind of unification strategy going on behind the scenes but whether it's going to be good enough to win out over competitors or not is up in the air. Combos like NReal Air and Samsung Dex/Steam Deck are going to become more and more common and unless they get a move on I can see them falling behind the competition like Intel did. Stuff like this is kind of in the right direction but I do tend to be in agreement now with the people who say that we need an iPad with MacOS, or at least something that's leaning more towards MacOS than iPhone OS, especially on the large screen models.

freedomben 3y ago
IDK, Apple's brand loyalty is absolutely incredible. I know multiple people who will buy everything Apple makes, and if Apple doesn't make it they won't really consider it. Apple's strategy of letting other people validate markets and then coming in with a good product (like they did with the Apple watch for example) would likely not work for most companies, but it works great for Apple. They'd have to lose an insane amount of ground before they'd be at risk of being left behind. They also have enough cash that they could chase tail lights and do their not-original-but-better thing for decades. Fwiw I do hope you're right though. I think competition is badly needed.
- rcarr 3y ago
  I probably fit into the Apple loyalist camp, I've currently got an Apple laptop, phone, tablet, smart speakers and TV and in the past I've also tried the watch, the AirPods and the iMac. I'm probably more tech orientated than the average consumer but, based on the products I've seen released outside of the Apple ecosystem the past year, it's the very first time in over a decade that I've been giving serious thought to switching. I'm thinking I can't be alone in this so I'm interested to see how this plays out.
paulpan 3y ago
100%. Whereas in the prior decade there were hardware limitations to device convergence (e.g. lack of CPU power, RAM), this is a no longer an issue and software is the roadblock is most cases. Ironically Apple threw open the doors when they not only put the M1 chip into the iPad Pro, but also into the iPad Air. One reason for this slow transition is likely due to the legacy software support requirements. Microsoft seems to have vastly overestimated the complexity involved in porting Windows OS to ARM through its many attempts: first with Windows RT, followed by Windows 10S, and most recently tighter developer hardware tie-in with Project Volterra. Apple probably isn't too keen to follow this playbook - opting instead to just keep iOS and macOS separate and gradually drop x86 support entirely from macOS. As an occasional Samsung Dex user, the benefit of having "one device to rule them all" is obvious and overall experience has been good. But to play devil's advocate, Samsung's revenues is heavily hardware-based so they'd much prefer to sell you multiple devices.

aloer 3y ago

Slightly unrelated: is there a way or an app to shoot 4k on iPhone or iPad and store it directly on external ssd? Apple often advertises their new pro phones with „professional“ level video production so I always assumed that is possible somehow

bravura 3y ago

I wanted to go iPad only for live music for a while, but found the supporting hardware to be lacking. (This was like five years ago.) I spent money on a dock that would allow me two audio inputs (microphone and guitar for example) and a USB jack for plugging in an external MIDI keyboard. The experience was somewhat janky and unreliable. I wonder if that has changed.

makz 3y ago

Why do they insist on making everything worse?

armchairhacker 3y ago

I was about to wish Apple had made Logic Pro free or cheap for students / hobbyists, and a $5/month subscription does that. I've want to get into sound design but not going to drop $1000s on software. Though I wish they'd do something like Kilohearts, where subscribing for enough time basically gives you a perpetual license (https://kilohearts.com/products/kilohearts_subscription#rewards https://kilohearts.com/products/kilohearts_subscription#rewa...). It's good because if I pick up something and then drop it I can just cancel the subscription, but if I decide to keep using it until I reach the price point I get to keep it.

lostgame 3y ago
To be fair - GarageBand is free, and while it’s feature set is obviously lethargic in comparison to Logic’s, I do like their philosophy of having kind of a free consumer and education version vs. a professional version. As a teenager I very successfully followed the path of using iMovie and GarageBand for a couple years until eventually I outgrew the feature set and wanted more. At the time; they sold what was called ‘Final Cut Express’ and ‘Logic Express’, which were essentially 95% feature complete versions of the software at a significantly reduced price aimed at the education and hobbyist market. It was a perfect little balance between affordability and power. Best of all, you could, and still can; open up iMovie projects in Final Cut and GarageBand projects in Logic - allowing you to actually flex more power if you need it in existing projects. This workflow was so fantastic, and I actually still use it sometimes when I’ve got musical ideas on the go and want to jot them down quickly with GarageBand on my iOS device.

earthnail 3y ago

Holy f**… how on earth will any other DAW vendor compete with that price? Logic already was crazy cheap, but now the price really just seems to be to boost iPad sales. It’s amazing what you get for $5/month here. But I’m a bit worried about innovation if everyone gets used to these prices.

LegitShady 3y ago
Reaper already competes at that price, just not on iOS.
- earthnail 3y ago
  Yeah, but Reaper is nowhere as comprehensive as other DAWs in the field. I just haven’t seen much new lately. Of course, nobody needs 10 more compressor plugins, but I also haven’t really seen any innovation in Logic either. I’d like to see more competition. And I think it’s tricky at this price.
  - LegitShady 3y ago
    > Yeah, but Reaper is nowhere as comprehensive as other DAWs in the field. What do you mean by comprehensive? Included plugins/VSTs?

apercu 3y ago

Hm.. I have had Logic (OSX) for a while. It wasn't cheap but it was fairly priced. And they supported all you can eat upgrades (admittedly, not very many major versions). Sort of a bummer that it's a subscription model on iOS. That said, it's totally worth $49/yr if it's part of your workflow. For me, I'll just continue use a MacBook, until I can't.

nkotov 3y ago

I'm pretty excited about FCP and subscription model. I pay for Adobe CC and for videos, FCP always felt out of reach (couldn't justify spending $299) for me to tinker with and move past using iMovie for quick family edits.

WillAdams 3y ago

I wish Apple would just cut to the chase and make a tablet Mac --- not really loving Windows 11 on my Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360.

happytiger 3y ago

It really says a lot about the future of editing. Everyone doing it on their phones is growing up showing us what editing packages are going to look like… and it’s something like this. Big screen, touch interface, more fluid work flow, definitely going to be ai assisted… it’s interesting timing. I feel like Apple is going to do the magic they did for spell checking with the iPhone keyboard for professional video editing. Might take them a while but this fcp finally evolving to the iPad feels like the bellwhether. Anyone else see the trend? 3-4 generations down the line probably. But do you see it?

sneak 3y ago
No doubt with surveillance features built in. This is dangerous in the journalism/media production pipeline.
- gehsty 3y ago
  Can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not? Apple products have been used to write articles / produce videos for decades, not sure why this is different on an iPad?

f0ld 3y ago

My dream come true! but.. can't afford that at the moment. I'll just use Garageband which works well. Just don't take that away. We'll get along alright.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

epolanski 3y ago

Can't lie. I don't love Apple products much but the appeal of using Logic Pro on a tablet isn't small.

nekdknff 3y ago

Remember when you could just buy software?

drexlspivey 3y ago

Do you get access to the mac version if you pay for a subscription?

pud 3y ago

Last week my company launched an iOS app that gets music into Apple Music and Spotify. Timing unintentional but neato that musicians can now record, distribute & promote all from the device. (not mentioning name of app cuz promotion, also we're not the only app that does this)

fortylove 3y ago

Davinci Resolve is arguably a better program, and is already available for the iPad. It is largely the same program as the desktop version, with a few exclusions that are actually easy to enable with a little research.

chillbill 3y ago

Apple can make it one-time fee and slightly lower than desktop software price. Sell custom addons and whatnot. Subscription model sucks.

efields 3y ago

Now one of the hardware companies needs to make a 2+/in/out digital audio interface _and_ usb c hub. Who needs this? The pro amateurs like me. I have a MiniFuse2 attached to a dongle with a synth and sometimes drum machine in there and it’s getting kind of wirey. It’s not as backpack friendly as it could be.

wslh 3y ago

D̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶i̶P̶a̶d̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶?̶ ̶I̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶s̶t̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶m̶ ̶f̶a̶c̶t̶o̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶i̶P̶a̶d̶ ̶M̶i̶n̶i̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶r̶i̶o̶u̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶.̶ I read that it works on >= M1 processor. It is at the end of [1] before the footer: "Final Cut Pro for iPad is available on the App Store. Requires an iPad with Apple M1 chip or later and iPadOS 16.4 or later. Downloading apps requires an Apple ID. To subscribe to Final Cut Pro for iPad you must have an internet connection." That is currently iPad Pro and iPad Air (10.9" display). [1] https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro-for-ipad/ https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro-for-ipad/

keyboard_smash 3y ago
According to the product pages[1][2], no for Final Cut but yes for Logic. > You can install Final Cut Pro for iPad on your 12.9-inch iPad Pro (5th or 6th generation), 11‑inch iPad Pro (3rd or 4th generation), or iPad Air (5th generation) with iPadOS 16.4 or later. > You can install Logic Pro for iPad on any iPad with the A12 Bionic chip or later and iPadOS 16.4 or later. [1]https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro-for-ipad/ https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro-for-ipad/ [2]https://www.apple.com/logic-pro-for-ipad/ https://www.apple.com/logic-pro-for-ipad/
- wslh 3y ago
  BTW, what is a good online course to learn about video editing and music for using these apps? Not looking for being Mozart or Steven Spielberg though... just to play with some extra knowledge.

shp0ngle 3y ago

I hope Apple Watch is next

kccqzy 3y ago

As someone who started editing videos in the early 2010s when Final Cut Pro X was a beta and Final Cut Pro 7 was extremely expensive, I think the age of charging for video editing software is already over. FCP X was only $300. These days you can use DaVinci Resolve for free. Plenty of very good videos by independent creators on YouTube or TikTok are produced without spending a single cent on video editing software. I think Apple will regret this pricing decision and make the software free (as in beer) in a few years' time. I mean I paid for iWork 09 and iLife 09 and I was livid when Apple made them free but still I think that's the trend of where things are going.

lylo 3y ago

Really great to see these products on iPad, and with a relatively low price. I wonder whether we’ll ever see them reboot Aperture, even iPad only. Much as I like Lightroom Cloud, I‘d love to see Apple take it on.

alariccole 3y ago

My money is on a larger iPad (think Microsoft Studio) that takes the place of an iMac. Likely 15” at first, larger later. I really enjoy a keyboard and trackpad with an iPad and an external monitor. This would be my only machine if I could run Xcode/Terminal on it.