12 ms·

That just sounds like "you don't get to own your device"

mlyle 3y ago
You get to "own your device" after you connect it to the internet once, to make sure it's not pre-provisioned for enterprise use.
- MereInterest 3y ago
  If the servers are running. If the servers deign to give permission to own the device you purchased. If they correctly recognize that this device is owned by the user. After I've purchased the device, the seller has no right to withhold ownership, and the existence of enterprise devices doesn't change that in the slightest.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    If the process doesn't work then return it as defective. Transfer of control isn't happening exactly at sale time but a few hours later isn't a big deal. Though of course that depends on it staying unlocked.
    - dingledork69 3y ago
      And it depends on the user being willing to connect it to the (public) internet without a firewall in between. I wonder if any of the countries that implement a country-wide firewall block this domain. That would disable bootloader unlocking for the entire country.
      - shadowgovt 3y ago
        We're talking about a cell phone though, right? A device that sooner or later is going to be connected to a cellular internet that will track it relentlessly? I'd imagine the demographic that is buying the cell phone and then not intending to use it as a phone is not one that Google is losing a lot of sleep over serving poorly.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      This is incorrect. Have you considered that the delay between getting the device and getting it connected could be well outside of the return window or people could be purchasing them in countries without such consumer rights? Smartphones aren’t only for the developed world.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        Who buys a brand new phone but also has no internet connection for weeks? Do they have all the apps they need pre-downloaded? I don't think that's a big group.
        KennyBlanken 3y ago
        It's quite common for people from elsewhere in the world to buy electronics in the US, Europe, Japan, etc and then bring them back to their home countries for a fraction of the cost of what the official or unofficial importer(s) want. That's why you end up with all sorts of region-locking nonsense, companies trying to protect their importers who have a monopoly on distribution of a particular device.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        You can unlock it before you go home.
        rdbell 3y ago
        It usually takes about a month between the time I order something from the US and the time I have it in-hand. Last holiday season was about 2 months. Never tried a return because I'd have to pay through the nose on shipping.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        They specifically said a delay between getting the device and connecting it. That's very unfortunate if you'd have to pay a return for a promised feature not working.
    - thescriptkiddie 3y ago
      What happens in 5 years when Google gets tired of running the server?
- dingledork69 3y ago
  So you don't own it when you buy it. At best Google still owns it and they graciously allow you permission to change the bootloader after you submit to their terms of service. Also, better hope their servers are online and reachable, and that you have functional internet.
  - leni536 3y ago
    The best you can do is to consider it as part of the transaction of buying the device. If it fails for whatever reason, return the device.
  - Gigachad 3y ago
    This is honestly the most overblown issue I've ever seen on HN. How many people are buying a brand new in box pixel to install a custom OS on and do not have an internet connection anywhere, not even a free public wifi? I'd be shocked if this impacts even a single person. At this point it's being angry for the sake of it.
    - Arch-TK 3y ago
      I can totally imagine a situation in which, in the future, someone buys a new old stock pixel phone and can't replace the OS because the bootloader can't be unlocked because the servers don't exist anymore. A few years ago I bought a Nokia N900 which was at the time a 10 year old phone. I did this to use it as a daily driver. Without community support the phone would have been useless. But, more importantly, if the phone required an internet connection to some server in order to let you replace the stock OS then it would have been a brick because Nokia's servers were long gone by then. That being said, all things considered, the most important argument here is not of the practicality but the principle. You handed over money for a piece of hardware but you can't make full use of the hardware until you let the phone talk to the manufacturer once. Thats completely insane irrespective of how small of a perceived issue you think it is.
    - dingledork69 3y ago
      It's possible to care about issues that infringe on people their rights even if they do not affect you personally.
LiamPowell 3y ago
This is correct, people generally don't get to own a device provided by their employer. Not allowing the bootloader to be unlocked on company-owned devices seems like a very desirable feature.
- fkarg 3y ago
  except that their employer[0] doesn't own it either [0] except for the employer being google in this case
- MereInterest 3y ago
  Not allowing a bootloader to be unlocked on a company-owned device does sound like a desirable feature, but only for company-owned devices. Applying that setup to all phones assumes that the default phone is a company-owned device and is subject to external control.
  - tapoxi 3y ago
    It assumes that company owned and managed phones are more common than people who want to unlock the bootloader. I know this isn't ideal, but that's the correct assumption to make.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      That’s a stupid false dichotomy caused by a poor onboarding workflow. “Well we either make it easier for businesses or deny the right to literally every customer to own their device. It’s okay because most people won’t notice.”
      - shadowgovt 3y ago
        You'll notice that the market is not lining up to buy the PinePhone in response to this state of affairs, so I would say that the decision has been working out well for Google. It is very much the case that most people don't care about this definition of freedom.

You get to "own your device" after you connect it to the internet once, to make sure it's not pre-provisioned for enterprise use.

MereInterest 3y ago
If the servers are running. If the servers deign to give permission to own the device you purchased. If they correctly recognize that this device is owned by the user. After I've purchased the device, the seller has no right to withhold ownership, and the existence of enterprise devices doesn't change that in the slightest.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  If the process doesn't work then return it as defective. Transfer of control isn't happening exactly at sale time but a few hours later isn't a big deal. Though of course that depends on it staying unlocked.
  - dingledork69 3y ago
    And it depends on the user being willing to connect it to the (public) internet without a firewall in between. I wonder if any of the countries that implement a country-wide firewall block this domain. That would disable bootloader unlocking for the entire country.
    - shadowgovt 3y ago
      We're talking about a cell phone though, right? A device that sooner or later is going to be connected to a cellular internet that will track it relentlessly? I'd imagine the demographic that is buying the cell phone and then not intending to use it as a phone is not one that Google is losing a lot of sleep over serving poorly.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    This is incorrect. Have you considered that the delay between getting the device and getting it connected could be well outside of the return window or people could be purchasing them in countries without such consumer rights? Smartphones aren’t only for the developed world.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      Who buys a brand new phone but also has no internet connection for weeks? Do they have all the apps they need pre-downloaded? I don't think that's a big group.
      - KennyBlanken 3y ago
        It's quite common for people from elsewhere in the world to buy electronics in the US, Europe, Japan, etc and then bring them back to their home countries for a fraction of the cost of what the official or unofficial importer(s) want. That's why you end up with all sorts of region-locking nonsense, companies trying to protect their importers who have a monopoly on distribution of a particular device.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        You can unlock it before you go home.
      - rdbell 3y ago
        It usually takes about a month between the time I order something from the US and the time I have it in-hand. Last holiday season was about 2 months. Never tried a return because I'd have to pay through the nose on shipping.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        They specifically said a delay between getting the device and connecting it. That's very unfortunate if you'd have to pay a return for a promised feature not working.
  - thescriptkiddie 3y ago
    What happens in 5 years when Google gets tired of running the server?
dingledork69 3y ago
So you don't own it when you buy it. At best Google still owns it and they graciously allow you permission to change the bootloader after you submit to their terms of service. Also, better hope their servers are online and reachable, and that you have functional internet.
- leni536 3y ago
  The best you can do is to consider it as part of the transaction of buying the device. If it fails for whatever reason, return the device.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  This is honestly the most overblown issue I've ever seen on HN. How many people are buying a brand new in box pixel to install a custom OS on and do not have an internet connection anywhere, not even a free public wifi? I'd be shocked if this impacts even a single person. At this point it's being angry for the sake of it.
  - Arch-TK 3y ago
    I can totally imagine a situation in which, in the future, someone buys a new old stock pixel phone and can't replace the OS because the bootloader can't be unlocked because the servers don't exist anymore. A few years ago I bought a Nokia N900 which was at the time a 10 year old phone. I did this to use it as a daily driver. Without community support the phone would have been useless. But, more importantly, if the phone required an internet connection to some server in order to let you replace the stock OS then it would have been a brick because Nokia's servers were long gone by then. That being said, all things considered, the most important argument here is not of the practicality but the principle. You handed over money for a piece of hardware but you can't make full use of the hardware until you let the phone talk to the manufacturer once. Thats completely insane irrespective of how small of a perceived issue you think it is.
  - dingledork69 3y ago
    It's possible to care about issues that infringe on people their rights even if they do not affect you personally.

LiamPowell 3y ago

This is correct, people generally don't get to own a device provided by their employer. Not allowing the bootloader to be unlocked on company-owned devices seems like a very desirable feature.

fkarg 3y ago
except that their employer[0] doesn't own it either [0] except for the employer being google in this case
MereInterest 3y ago
Not allowing a bootloader to be unlocked on a company-owned device does sound like a desirable feature, but only for company-owned devices. Applying that setup to all phones assumes that the default phone is a company-owned device and is subject to external control.
- tapoxi 3y ago
  It assumes that company owned and managed phones are more common than people who want to unlock the bootloader. I know this isn't ideal, but that's the correct assumption to make.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    That’s a stupid false dichotomy caused by a poor onboarding workflow. “Well we either make it easier for businesses or deny the right to literally every customer to own their device. It’s okay because most people won’t notice.”
    - shadowgovt 3y ago
      You'll notice that the market is not lining up to buy the PinePhone in response to this state of affairs, so I would say that the decision has been working out well for Google. It is very much the case that most people don't care about this definition of freedom.