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Apple will certainly jump at the chance to spend money and time subsidizing its competitors research costs, in return for absolutely no competitive advantage. T

Apple will certainly jump at the chance to spend money and time subsidizing its competitors research costs, in return for absolutely no competitive advantage. That's definitely what motivates people in the real world. Reality check: this approach means the rest of the world will have better tech whilst what's sold in the EU remains frozen in time.

viraptor 3y ago
Check the companies involved in any standardised connector/protocol currently used. For example USB implementers forum includes HP, NEC, Microsoft, Intel and... Apple. HDMI forum includes... Apple. NVMe contributors includes... Apple. The times of one company doing their own proprietary thing are close to gone.
- auggierose 3y ago
  In Europe those times are indeed gone now. If that's the natural way of things, why force anyone in the first place? Forcing a company to throw away their battle-tested technology? And all the equipment and cables with it? What kind of a huge bureaucratic fuck-up is this? This is not helping anyone, not the environment, not people. Well, it is helping some bureaucrats to justify their existence.
  - viraptor 3y ago
    You'll find the answers to most of your questions here https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/46755/attachments/3/translations/en/renditions/native https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/46755/attachments/3/...
    - auggierose 3y ago
      > However, the MoU also allowed for the use of proprietary charging interfaces, and one such solution continued to be used (and still is) by a major mobile phone manufacturer, thus preventing full interoperability. In addition, the MoU never addressed the environmental issues arising from the continued existence of those different charging interfaces and charging communication protocols. So the reasons are: 1. We want everyone to do the same, no exceptions. In particular, we don't like Apple and the lightning standard. 2. It's better for the environment. Now, 2. is clearly wrong, as now just all the people already in the Apple ecosystem need to switch their lightning equipment to USB-C equipment, adding tons of waste. And 1., well, is no reason at all. It's how you successfully stop innovation.
      - viraptor 3y ago
        If you say 2. is clearly wrong, what are your numbers specifically that disagree with the research summarised in the "Impact" section? Or do you disagree with some part of the linked study? (Which does already take the forced replacement into account)
        auggierose 3y ago
        Yes, of course I disagree with these numbers. First, the study says it doesn't take into account the impact of wireless charging. Well, all I do is wireless charging these days, so already the study is worthless in that respect. Furthermore, a lot of benefits it attributes to unbundling, which Apple already also does for quite a while. Finally, these are made up make-belief numbers without any solid backing, given that all these factors are not really included. Personally, I didn't need another cable for the last 5 years, and I am a heavy Apple user. Somebody else was complaining that they need another cable between their switch, laptop, and iPhone. Yes, the cable is what makes the environmental difference here. Ridiculous.
      - eropple 3y ago
        > 2. is clearly wrong, as now just all the people already in the Apple ecosystem need to switch their lightning equipment to USB-C equipment, adding tons of waste. As opposed to now, when I buy twice as many cables on their own wear lifecycles because my phone doesn't connect to the same thing as my Switch or my Laptop? This is literal FUD.
- revelio 3y ago
  You're talking about the company that just re-introduced MagSafe, its widely praised proprietary power connector, and claiming the times of one company doing their own proprietary thing are close to gone? Apple is cleaning up in the PC market and has been for years by being as proprietary as possible.
  - viraptor 3y ago
    They reintroduced it in addition to USB charging and only on the most recent MBP models. They're doing both standard and proprietary thing at the same time which is quite different from the connector battles we had in the past.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Those laptop also support USB-C charging however, you don’t have to use MagSafe. They brought back MagSafe because customers weren’t satisfied with USB-C charging.
    - revelio 3y ago
      Yes ... exactly ... they reintroduced a non-standard connector because people preferred it to the standard one. See the problem?
      - TheCleric 3y ago
        And if they weren't stingy with the patent, it could become the standard if everyone else agreed as well. And I say this as someone who prefers magsafe over usb-c.
      - baq 3y ago
        No, I don’t. They’re supporting both standard and proprietary. My MacBook Pro is connected to a multi port USB-C charger 99% of the time, which also charges my phone and my headset. MagSafe sits in the backpack when I need to work somewhere else than my desk, which doesn’t happen much. I’d argue it’s the best of both worlds. If it only supported MagSafe I’d be seriously annoyed.
mort96 3y ago
Apple has been known for doing a whole bunch of R&D which affects the industry. Hell, they were heavily involved in USB-C, and got no competitive advantage from that R&D spending – they just got the opportunity to make better products. Same with WebGPU and other web standards (and, well, there's the freely available WebKit!). "Companies won't invest R&D into making freely available standards because if it's freely available it's not a competitive advantage" is clearly not something which bears out in the real world.

viraptor 3y ago

Check the companies involved in any standardised connector/protocol currently used. For example USB implementers forum includes HP, NEC, Microsoft, Intel and... Apple. HDMI forum includes... Apple. NVMe contributors includes... Apple. The times of one company doing their own proprietary thing are close to gone.

auggierose 3y ago
In Europe those times are indeed gone now. If that's the natural way of things, why force anyone in the first place? Forcing a company to throw away their battle-tested technology? And all the equipment and cables with it? What kind of a huge bureaucratic fuck-up is this? This is not helping anyone, not the environment, not people. Well, it is helping some bureaucrats to justify their existence.
- viraptor 3y ago
  You'll find the answers to most of your questions here https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/46755/attachments/3/translations/en/renditions/native https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/46755/attachments/3/...
  - auggierose 3y ago
    > However, the MoU also allowed for the use of proprietary charging interfaces, and one such solution continued to be used (and still is) by a major mobile phone manufacturer, thus preventing full interoperability. In addition, the MoU never addressed the environmental issues arising from the continued existence of those different charging interfaces and charging communication protocols. So the reasons are: 1. We want everyone to do the same, no exceptions. In particular, we don't like Apple and the lightning standard. 2. It's better for the environment. Now, 2. is clearly wrong, as now just all the people already in the Apple ecosystem need to switch their lightning equipment to USB-C equipment, adding tons of waste. And 1., well, is no reason at all. It's how you successfully stop innovation.
    - viraptor 3y ago
      If you say 2. is clearly wrong, what are your numbers specifically that disagree with the research summarised in the "Impact" section? Or do you disagree with some part of the linked study? (Which does already take the forced replacement into account)
      - auggierose 3y ago
        Yes, of course I disagree with these numbers. First, the study says it doesn't take into account the impact of wireless charging. Well, all I do is wireless charging these days, so already the study is worthless in that respect. Furthermore, a lot of benefits it attributes to unbundling, which Apple already also does for quite a while. Finally, these are made up make-belief numbers without any solid backing, given that all these factors are not really included. Personally, I didn't need another cable for the last 5 years, and I am a heavy Apple user. Somebody else was complaining that they need another cable between their switch, laptop, and iPhone. Yes, the cable is what makes the environmental difference here. Ridiculous.
    - eropple 3y ago
      > 2. is clearly wrong, as now just all the people already in the Apple ecosystem need to switch their lightning equipment to USB-C equipment, adding tons of waste. As opposed to now, when I buy twice as many cables on their own wear lifecycles because my phone doesn't connect to the same thing as my Switch or my Laptop? This is literal FUD.
revelio 3y ago
You're talking about the company that just re-introduced MagSafe, its widely praised proprietary power connector, and claiming the times of one company doing their own proprietary thing are close to gone? Apple is cleaning up in the PC market and has been for years by being as proprietary as possible.
- viraptor 3y ago
  They reintroduced it in addition to USB charging and only on the most recent MBP models. They're doing both standard and proprietary thing at the same time which is quite different from the connector battles we had in the past.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Those laptop also support USB-C charging however, you don’t have to use MagSafe. They brought back MagSafe because customers weren’t satisfied with USB-C charging.
  - revelio 3y ago
    Yes ... exactly ... they reintroduced a non-standard connector because people preferred it to the standard one. See the problem?
    - TheCleric 3y ago
      And if they weren't stingy with the patent, it could become the standard if everyone else agreed as well. And I say this as someone who prefers magsafe over usb-c.
    - baq 3y ago
      No, I don’t. They’re supporting both standard and proprietary. My MacBook Pro is connected to a multi port USB-C charger 99% of the time, which also charges my phone and my headset. MagSafe sits in the backpack when I need to work somewhere else than my desk, which doesn’t happen much. I’d argue it’s the best of both worlds. If it only supported MagSafe I’d be seriously annoyed.

mort96 3y ago

Apple has been known for doing a whole bunch of R&D which affects the industry. Hell, they were heavily involved in USB-C, and got no competitive advantage from that R&D spending – they just got the opportunity to make better products. Same with WebGPU and other web standards (and, well, there's the freely available WebKit!). "Companies won't invest R&D into making freely available standards because if it's freely available it's not a competitive advantage" is clearly not something which bears out in the real world.