6 ms·

I’m all for some kind of universality, but this authoritarian method does not strike me as a good idea. You lament their concern with fairness, by giving unfair

I’m all for some kind of universality, but this authoritarian method does not strike me as a good idea. You lament their concern with fairness, by giving unfair advantages to the USB-C license holders/patent holders? I’m not even sure people understand that Apple also contributed heavily to the development of USB-C along with other companies, some of them European. The irony is that I believe the Lightning Connector, the iPhone connector, has been the longest standing standard connector (11 years now) and the introduction of the Qi “wireless charging” is also a good argument against this narrow sighted EU authoritarian/communist mentality that some apparatchiks can make better decisions than those who actually do and create things. Has someone actually asked Apple to lay out its reasons for not adopting the larger and bulkier USB-C? Could it be that it has something to do with trying to engage in economic warfare against Apple because it’s harder to compete?

vidarh 3y ago
The EU tried the soft approach for many years, and Apple stubbornly refused to play. "This authoritarian method" of representing the populations they are meant to represent as part of a democratic society rather than letting companies continue to do what they want came with ample warning. EDIT: Someone asked about the mandate for it, and deleted, but worth pointing out that the EU parliament supported this with a majority of 602 to 13, so it has support literally from the far left to the far right.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- frankfrankfrank 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - tankenmate 3y ago
    Apple refused to implement mirco-USB when the EU issued guidelines to use USB because of electronic waste. Apple refused to even talk to the EU about it. So with Apple refusing to engage with the elected representatives of the EU then the EU got to the point of having to force Apple to engage; legislation. TLDR: The EU wanted less e-waste. Apple refused to engage, so the EU forced them to engage or leave.
    - frankfrankfrank 3y ago
      The problem is that the EU is illegitimate and a circus clown shoe of pencil necked bureaucratic authoritarians. I’m not even a fan of Apple look e for different reasons, but the very same reason Apple is likely not even engaging the EU clowns and their attempt at making Apple products worse with Micro USB (what a horrible design and technology because of it), it’s also the very same reason that the EU cannot ban Apple, because Apple is to god and the market leader in design and creating good products that people actually want. I can assure you that Apple’s lightning connector has caused there to be less waste than any other manufacturer. Case in point too; I just bought a temporary Nokia phone. And here it is, 2023, and they’re still using that horrible MicroUSB design plug that you have to look at every single time to make sure you get the plug in correctly. OUSD also discriminatory against the blind who have to feel they plug itself to figure out which way is up, whereas I can plug the lightning connector into any of the Apple devices in pitch black darkness because they go in the same every time.
- troad 3y ago
  > The EU tried the soft approach for many years, and Apple stubbornly refused to play. "We tried giving you an option, but you kept picking wrong, so we're taking your right to choose away."
  - vidarh 3y ago
    Yes, a completely reasonable choice when they made the goal clear (reducing waste) and literally everyone else managed to work together and Apple was the only one who decided to play stupid games. We may tolerate the fiction of corporate personhood in some circumstances, but companies are not people, and their "rights" should be strictly limited - especially when they purposefully ignore the wishes of elected representatives for a decade.
    - troad 3y ago
      From the fact you've spontaneously brought up corporate personhood as a bit of a strawman to pummel, it seems like your disagreements with the operation of the modern economy may go beyond mere cable standardisation.
      - vidarh 3y ago
        I didn't bring it up. You brought it up when you talked about "taking away rights" from a corporation.
    - frankfrankfrank 3y ago
      Apple has had 2 style plugs in 20 years. They are there only ones who have done that. You’re someone just brainwashed over this when I am confident of you just paused for a second and thought about what utter foolishness you supported, you would realize that very thing. If any of the tech companies has “reduced waste”, an oxymoron in its own right, then it’s Apple. I use cables for latest iPhones that were made for phones that are now 10 years old, and I also use the same cables and chargers for iPads I use for iPhones. I implore you to just stop, center yourself and think your own thoughts about all of this. It’s rather bizarre when people are so mixed up in the head of over things because they repeat propaganda rather than thinking their own thoughts and following deductive logic to its final conclusion.
NikolaNovak 3y ago
I have to ask - Do some people just throw the word "Communist" every time they disagree with something? Is this also a "Socialist" standard? Possibly also "woke"? :-> As for longevity, dunno; Micro-USB was around since 2007 and is still in use. Usb a of course is decades strong. And the European preference of Micro-USB does not seem to have prevented other standards. And of course, 3.5mm connector has been around for way way longer (until Apple decided to murder it in cold blood:). There's Ethernet of course. IEEE and various C-series cables?
- revelio 3y ago
  They're using that word not because they disagree, but because it's an accurate description of what the EU is becoming. Communist states centrally plan the economy. Everything is specified by government committees down to tiny details like the production levels of individual factories, what they produce, how, and what does or does not get researched. The EU has developed a penchant for micromanaging the details of private industry to an extraordinary degree. The similarities to communist central planning are clear to see: 1. There is no democracy. The Commission does what it wants. The EU proclaims itself to have a parliament, but the body that uses that name isn't the same as a normal parliament. 2. They love to specify the details of trivial things like exactly how fast kettles operate, the exact way the curvature of bananas are classified, how browsers display cookie UI, and now the way phones plug into chargers. 3. All the above is justified via the usual terms ideologically left wing people like to use such as "fairness", "cooperation" etc. None of this is a surprise because the EU traces its roots to a document written by communists called the Ventotene Manifesto, and prior Commission presidents have even celebrated Marx. https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/04/juncker-opens-exhibition-to-karl-marx https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/04/juncker-opens-exhibition...
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    Thank you for your response, I appreciate the time and perspective; I stand by my observation though: None of what you listed I see as a defining feature of Communism. It feels like some people have heard that "Communism is a bad thing that Russians did", and then they apply it to anything and everything they disagree with or may have centrally-planned authoritarian approaches. "Centrally planned undemocratic / authoritarian" has so many wonderful implementations and versions, and communism is barely one of them :) I remain unconvinced to see "USB-C Standard" as a "left-wing communist conspiracy" :-/
epolanski 3y ago
I don't think this is in any way authoritarian, no one's personal freedom is at stake here. The regulation is for hardware companies, not you. There is no "unfair advantage" to USB-C patent holders, it's a standard that the industry settled on in a cooperative fashion in which Apple was itself a major player. No one prevented the industry from working on a "patent-free" different standard. Point is, you can't and shouldn't promote _different brands of connectors_ as it defeats the purpose of having less waste if in a household iPhone users are gonna use a different charger from the others.
- frankfrankfrank 3y ago
  It never crossed your mind that there may be a reason that Apple does not want to use the USB-C standard for all its disadvantages over the lightning connector that they have now had for 11 years. Apple has had two types of plugs over 20 years now. Can you say that about Nokia? Samsung? Etc?
  - kibwen 3y ago
    > It never crossed your mind that there may be a reason that Apple does not want to use the USB-C standard The reason is extremely obvious: cementing user lock-in to the Apple ecosystem.
    - ralfd 3y ago
      Lightning is smaller than USB-C. That alone makes it more desirable for space-obsessed Apple. I think it is more robust and easier to clean too.
      - Moldoteck 3y ago
        And lightning is usb2.0 and what it can do to be backwards compatible and offer 240w or more for charging and gigabits of data transfer like latest usb-c is unknown. But what we do know? Usb c is superior and it has been for years and Apple didn't switch to it on phones to sell users proprietary accestories that connect only by that port
crote 3y ago
USB is managed by a nonprofit, and the specification is freely available for anyone to use. You do not need to pay them anything to make a USB device, nor do you need their permission for it. You do need to pay them a (very reasonable) yearly fee if you wish to use the USB logo on your product though, and this includes agreeing to subject your product to compliance testing. As far as standards bodies go, USB is just about the furthest from "authoritarian" you can get.
- frankfrankfrank 3y ago
  [flagged]
belltaco 3y ago
> The irony is that I believe the Lightning Connector, the iPhone connector, has been the longest standing standard connector (11 years now) Not sure how that's irony, since the connector is proprietary and not an open standard, resulting in e-waste and expensive chargers. Your argument would have more weight if they opened it up. Do you think Apple should have done that?
- joeblubaugh 3y ago
  In what way does it generate more e-waste than any other cable? Unless you switch back and forth between iPhone and Android regularly, you’ll need roughly the same number of cables regardless of the platform.
  - neoromantique 3y ago
    I need different cables to charge my ipad/mac and iPhone. I can charge basically all (dozens) of my gadgets using usb-c cable, but I still need to carry additional outdated lightning with me to charge the damn phone.
ransom1538 3y ago
" I’m all for some kind of universality, but this authoritarian method does not strike me as a good idea." Rent to high? No problem, make increasing rent illegal. Got a homeless problem? Make it illegal to be homeless. Don't like changing your power cord? No problem: illegal. All these ideas would be like playing chess with the ability to only think one move ahead. It would be like having a 12 year old king pronounce today is ice cream day [all while facing certain thermonuclear war].

vidarh 3y ago

The EU tried the soft approach for many years, and Apple stubbornly refused to play. "This authoritarian method" of representing the populations they are meant to represent as part of a democratic society rather than letting companies continue to do what they want came with ample warning. EDIT: Someone asked about the mandate for it, and deleted, but worth pointing out that the EU parliament supported this with a majority of 602 to 13, so it has support literally from the far left to the far right.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
frankfrankfrank 3y ago
[flagged]
- tankenmate 3y ago
  Apple refused to implement mirco-USB when the EU issued guidelines to use USB because of electronic waste. Apple refused to even talk to the EU about it. So with Apple refusing to engage with the elected representatives of the EU then the EU got to the point of having to force Apple to engage; legislation. TLDR: The EU wanted less e-waste. Apple refused to engage, so the EU forced them to engage or leave.
  - frankfrankfrank 3y ago
    The problem is that the EU is illegitimate and a circus clown shoe of pencil necked bureaucratic authoritarians. I’m not even a fan of Apple look e for different reasons, but the very same reason Apple is likely not even engaging the EU clowns and their attempt at making Apple products worse with Micro USB (what a horrible design and technology because of it), it’s also the very same reason that the EU cannot ban Apple, because Apple is to god and the market leader in design and creating good products that people actually want. I can assure you that Apple’s lightning connector has caused there to be less waste than any other manufacturer. Case in point too; I just bought a temporary Nokia phone. And here it is, 2023, and they’re still using that horrible MicroUSB design plug that you have to look at every single time to make sure you get the plug in correctly. OUSD also discriminatory against the blind who have to feel they plug itself to figure out which way is up, whereas I can plug the lightning connector into any of the Apple devices in pitch black darkness because they go in the same every time.
troad 3y ago
> The EU tried the soft approach for many years, and Apple stubbornly refused to play. "We tried giving you an option, but you kept picking wrong, so we're taking your right to choose away."
- vidarh 3y ago
  Yes, a completely reasonable choice when they made the goal clear (reducing waste) and literally everyone else managed to work together and Apple was the only one who decided to play stupid games. We may tolerate the fiction of corporate personhood in some circumstances, but companies are not people, and their "rights" should be strictly limited - especially when they purposefully ignore the wishes of elected representatives for a decade.
  - troad 3y ago
    From the fact you've spontaneously brought up corporate personhood as a bit of a strawman to pummel, it seems like your disagreements with the operation of the modern economy may go beyond mere cable standardisation.
    - vidarh 3y ago
      I didn't bring it up. You brought it up when you talked about "taking away rights" from a corporation.
  - frankfrankfrank 3y ago
    Apple has had 2 style plugs in 20 years. They are there only ones who have done that. You’re someone just brainwashed over this when I am confident of you just paused for a second and thought about what utter foolishness you supported, you would realize that very thing. If any of the tech companies has “reduced waste”, an oxymoron in its own right, then it’s Apple. I use cables for latest iPhones that were made for phones that are now 10 years old, and I also use the same cables and chargers for iPads I use for iPhones. I implore you to just stop, center yourself and think your own thoughts about all of this. It’s rather bizarre when people are so mixed up in the head of over things because they repeat propaganda rather than thinking their own thoughts and following deductive logic to its final conclusion.

NikolaNovak 3y ago

I have to ask - Do some people just throw the word "Communist" every time they disagree with something? Is this also a "Socialist" standard? Possibly also "woke"? :-> As for longevity, dunno; Micro-USB was around since 2007 and is still in use. Usb a of course is decades strong. And the European preference of Micro-USB does not seem to have prevented other standards. And of course, 3.5mm connector has been around for way way longer (until Apple decided to murder it in cold blood:). There's Ethernet of course. IEEE and various C-series cables?

revelio 3y ago
They're using that word not because they disagree, but because it's an accurate description of what the EU is becoming. Communist states centrally plan the economy. Everything is specified by government committees down to tiny details like the production levels of individual factories, what they produce, how, and what does or does not get researched. The EU has developed a penchant for micromanaging the details of private industry to an extraordinary degree. The similarities to communist central planning are clear to see: 1. There is no democracy. The Commission does what it wants. The EU proclaims itself to have a parliament, but the body that uses that name isn't the same as a normal parliament. 2. They love to specify the details of trivial things like exactly how fast kettles operate, the exact way the curvature of bananas are classified, how browsers display cookie UI, and now the way phones plug into chargers. 3. All the above is justified via the usual terms ideologically left wing people like to use such as "fairness", "cooperation" etc. None of this is a surprise because the EU traces its roots to a document written by communists called the Ventotene Manifesto, and prior Commission presidents have even celebrated Marx. https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/04/juncker-opens-exhibition-to-karl-marx https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/04/juncker-opens-exhibition...
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  Thank you for your response, I appreciate the time and perspective; I stand by my observation though: None of what you listed I see as a defining feature of Communism. It feels like some people have heard that "Communism is a bad thing that Russians did", and then they apply it to anything and everything they disagree with or may have centrally-planned authoritarian approaches. "Centrally planned undemocratic / authoritarian" has so many wonderful implementations and versions, and communism is barely one of them :) I remain unconvinced to see "USB-C Standard" as a "left-wing communist conspiracy" :-/

epolanski 3y ago

I don't think this is in any way authoritarian, no one's personal freedom is at stake here. The regulation is for hardware companies, not you. There is no "unfair advantage" to USB-C patent holders, it's a standard that the industry settled on in a cooperative fashion in which Apple was itself a major player. No one prevented the industry from working on a "patent-free" different standard. Point is, you can't and shouldn't promote _different brands of connectors_ as it defeats the purpose of having less waste if in a household iPhone users are gonna use a different charger from the others.

frankfrankfrank 3y ago
It never crossed your mind that there may be a reason that Apple does not want to use the USB-C standard for all its disadvantages over the lightning connector that they have now had for 11 years. Apple has had two types of plugs over 20 years now. Can you say that about Nokia? Samsung? Etc?
- kibwen 3y ago
  > It never crossed your mind that there may be a reason that Apple does not want to use the USB-C standard The reason is extremely obvious: cementing user lock-in to the Apple ecosystem.
  - ralfd 3y ago
    Lightning is smaller than USB-C. That alone makes it more desirable for space-obsessed Apple. I think it is more robust and easier to clean too.
    - Moldoteck 3y ago
      And lightning is usb2.0 and what it can do to be backwards compatible and offer 240w or more for charging and gigabits of data transfer like latest usb-c is unknown. But what we do know? Usb c is superior and it has been for years and Apple didn't switch to it on phones to sell users proprietary accestories that connect only by that port

crote 3y ago

USB is managed by a nonprofit, and the specification is freely available for anyone to use. You do not need to pay them anything to make a USB device, nor do you need their permission for it. You do need to pay them a (very reasonable) yearly fee if you wish to use the USB logo on your product though, and this includes agreeing to subject your product to compliance testing. As far as standards bodies go, USB is just about the furthest from "authoritarian" you can get.

frankfrankfrank 3y ago
[flagged]

belltaco 3y ago

> The irony is that I believe the Lightning Connector, the iPhone connector, has been the longest standing standard connector (11 years now) Not sure how that's irony, since the connector is proprietary and not an open standard, resulting in e-waste and expensive chargers. Your argument would have more weight if they opened it up. Do you think Apple should have done that?

joeblubaugh 3y ago
In what way does it generate more e-waste than any other cable? Unless you switch back and forth between iPhone and Android regularly, you’ll need roughly the same number of cables regardless of the platform.
- neoromantique 3y ago
  I need different cables to charge my ipad/mac and iPhone. I can charge basically all (dozens) of my gadgets using usb-c cable, but I still need to carry additional outdated lightning with me to charge the damn phone.

ransom1538 3y ago

" I’m all for some kind of universality, but this authoritarian method does not strike me as a good idea." Rent to high? No problem, make increasing rent illegal. Got a homeless problem? Make it illegal to be homeless. Don't like changing your power cord? No problem: illegal. All these ideas would be like playing chess with the ability to only think one move ahead. It would be like having a 12 year old king pronounce today is ice cream day [all while facing certain thermonuclear war].