5 ms·

Oh no! Here, please, backdoor my OS with a kernel anticheat -- anything that saves me from cheaters in the current bideo game of the month! D:

charcircuit 3y ago
Wanting to play competitive games without cheaters is something that real users actually want and they get real value from. Your mockery of these people doesn't remove the value they get from being able to play without cheaters.
- codedokode 3y ago
  Having encryption, keys and software that I cannot control because game makers and copyright owners want more profit is ridiculous.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    Again. You are ignoring that users gain real value from this. The reason why copyright owners are making more profit is because user's are finding value in their product and they are being given what they want.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  If they care that much make them pay for it.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    They are by purchasing skins.
juliusgeo 3y ago
Riot anti cheat is quite invasive but Valorant is a competitive ranked first person shooter, allowing cheaters violates the integrity of any ranking system of players, and that ranking system is one of the primary appeals of the game.
CircleSpokes 3y ago
I honestly don't understand why people act like this. Wanting to be able to ensure firmware isn't maliciously modified is a good thing. Open firmware is also a good idea obviously but there has to be a way to ensure firmware is signed either by OEM or your own keys like secure boot. As for games, lots of people play games and want good anticheat. If you don't like that you don't have to play those games but no need to act like the way you are because other people want decent anticheat.
- kortilla 3y ago
  >honestly don't understand why people act like this. Because it’s social pressure to compromise your computer to a gaming company to get to play a game. People don’t care about the anticheat on their computer, they want it foisted on everyone else who plays, which is a sucky proposition for privacy and security minded people. It’s like advocating for the TSA to be controlling access to the grocery store because you want to feel safe there and don’t mind the privacy violation.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    >to compromise your computer What do you mean by this? As the user you are intending to have the game and its anticheat run. Having to download and run a game on your computer isn't compromising your computer either. Maybe the only thing which doesn't give the game company power to run potentially malicious code on your machine is cloud gaming. That also solves the cheating problem at least.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      Do you think the 30+ years of user-space isolation improvements that have gone into modern OSes are not undone by a kernel module?
      - charcircuit 3y ago
        The whole point of a kernel level anticheat in that it can bypass the isolation to find cheats. The isolation still exists for normal programs when the anticheat is present.
fafzv 3y ago
So don't play the game. Personally I want kernel level anticheats because they make it much harder to cheat in the game. I want to know that my opponents are not cheaters. That's something I don't have in CS:GO, a game ripe with cheaters, or TF2, a game ripe with bots. (Valve's usermode anticheat is absolutely useless)
- von_lohengramm 3y ago
  Yet it's still pretty dang easy to bypass VGK and cheat in Valorant if you even slightly know what you're doing. Now you have the worst of both worlds. In theory, Valve's VACnet and Trust Factor are the ideal solutions, but in practice... not so much.
  - fafzv 3y ago
    How is VAC the ideal solution? It is weak even in theory.
    - von_lohengramm 3y ago
      VACnet, not VAC. Server-side ML model analyzing player actions influencing their Trust Factor (or just straight up banning in more egregious cases).
- codedokode 3y ago
  Make every player pay a deposit which is confiscated when they get caught cheating. Make servers with different deposit levels, so that people who really care about cheating pay over $1000 for example. Better than having keys which I cannot control on my computer. And I don't play games anyway.
  - takeda 3y ago
    Or allow people running their own gaming servers that they can moderate. Solves cheating problem and when gaming company stops supporting their online game or goes out of business.

charcircuit 3y ago

Wanting to play competitive games without cheaters is something that real users actually want and they get real value from. Your mockery of these people doesn't remove the value they get from being able to play without cheaters.

codedokode 3y ago
Having encryption, keys and software that I cannot control because game makers and copyright owners want more profit is ridiculous.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  Again. You are ignoring that users gain real value from this. The reason why copyright owners are making more profit is because user's are finding value in their product and they are being given what they want.
ekianjo 3y ago
If they care that much make them pay for it.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  They are by purchasing skins.

juliusgeo 3y ago

Riot anti cheat is quite invasive but Valorant is a competitive ranked first person shooter, allowing cheaters violates the integrity of any ranking system of players, and that ranking system is one of the primary appeals of the game.

CircleSpokes 3y ago

I honestly don't understand why people act like this. Wanting to be able to ensure firmware isn't maliciously modified is a good thing. Open firmware is also a good idea obviously but there has to be a way to ensure firmware is signed either by OEM or your own keys like secure boot. As for games, lots of people play games and want good anticheat. If you don't like that you don't have to play those games but no need to act like the way you are because other people want decent anticheat.

kortilla 3y ago
>honestly don't understand why people act like this. Because it’s social pressure to compromise your computer to a gaming company to get to play a game. People don’t care about the anticheat on their computer, they want it foisted on everyone else who plays, which is a sucky proposition for privacy and security minded people. It’s like advocating for the TSA to be controlling access to the grocery store because you want to feel safe there and don’t mind the privacy violation.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  >to compromise your computer What do you mean by this? As the user you are intending to have the game and its anticheat run. Having to download and run a game on your computer isn't compromising your computer either. Maybe the only thing which doesn't give the game company power to run potentially malicious code on your machine is cloud gaming. That also solves the cheating problem at least.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    Do you think the 30+ years of user-space isolation improvements that have gone into modern OSes are not undone by a kernel module?
    - charcircuit 3y ago
      The whole point of a kernel level anticheat in that it can bypass the isolation to find cheats. The isolation still exists for normal programs when the anticheat is present.

fafzv 3y ago

So don't play the game. Personally I want kernel level anticheats because they make it much harder to cheat in the game. I want to know that my opponents are not cheaters. That's something I don't have in CS:GO, a game ripe with cheaters, or TF2, a game ripe with bots. (Valve's usermode anticheat is absolutely useless)

von_lohengramm 3y ago
Yet it's still pretty dang easy to bypass VGK and cheat in Valorant if you even slightly know what you're doing. Now you have the worst of both worlds. In theory, Valve's VACnet and Trust Factor are the ideal solutions, but in practice... not so much.
- fafzv 3y ago
  How is VAC the ideal solution? It is weak even in theory.
  - von_lohengramm 3y ago
    VACnet, not VAC. Server-side ML model analyzing player actions influencing their Trust Factor (or just straight up banning in more egregious cases).
codedokode 3y ago
Make every player pay a deposit which is confiscated when they get caught cheating. Make servers with different deposit levels, so that people who really care about cheating pay over $1000 for example. Better than having keys which I cannot control on my computer. And I don't play games anyway.
- takeda 3y ago
  Or allow people running their own gaming servers that they can moderate. Solves cheating problem and when gaming company stops supporting their online game or goes out of business.