8 ms·

If a company gets rid of my free forever plan with them, there is a 0% chance that they're getting any money or positive word of mouth from me in the future. It

by pikdum 3y ago

If a company gets rid of my free forever plan with them, there is a 0% chance that they're getting any money or positive word of mouth from me in the future. It's incredibly scummy behavior. If you're not willing to actually offer it forever, just call it a free plan instead of lying about it.

sizzle 3y ago
You can pry my MalwareBytes lifetime license from my cold dead hands
matwood 3y ago
> If a company gets rid of my free forever plan with them, there is a 0% chance that they're getting any money or positive word of mouth from me in the future. It's incredibly scummy behavior. I'm sure they are also willing to give you back any money you have paid to date...
- kcartlidge 3y ago
  > I'm sure they are also willing to give you back any money you have paid to date... A "free plan" is one thing, and what you say is totally fair for that. A "free forever plan", though, contains a promise. And whilst we know it isn't literally true (companies die or pivot, takeovers happen, economies crash etc), there's an element of broken trust when "forever" is not only dropped but the communications around it are silent or misleading about the loss. I've no skin in the game (or axe to grind) but it feels like that might be the crux of the issue - it's a question of integrity when communicating.
ziml77 3y ago
Still a net gain for the company. Getting something from them for free means you are costing them money. And I would bet your word of mouth was also worth negative dollars to them since you're going to be telling people about the free tier.
- Sebb767 3y ago
  > And I would bet your word of mouth was also worth negative dollars to them since you're going to be telling people about the free tier. The whole point of having a free tier is to onboard customers and then upsell them to a paid tier. If a referral is costing them money, they are missing the point of a free tier.
jarym 3y ago
Not trying to be funny, but if you're on a 'free forever' plan and happy with it there's already a close-to-0% chance they'll get any money off you...
- maleldil 3y ago
  There could still be word of mouth that leads to paying customers. Or circumstances change and the paid plans are worth it for previously free customers.
- juliusgeo 3y ago
  Most of my recommendations for services to use come from my friends who have either used that service on a free plan, or a paid plan. It matters very little in terms of the network effects of their service whether or not you're on a "free plan". See GitHub's free subscriptions of CoPilot for open source contributors.
- pikdum 3y ago
  Probably not from my personal use, no. But for company use, I'd rather pay for something I'm happy with using personally or have had good experiences with in the past, rather than rolling the dice on something unknown.
- bombcar 3y ago
  I have had my company purchase company plans for products I use as free or free for personal use. I will never recommend Google Apps for Domains or whatever it is called now after they dicked around.
  - rootw0rm 3y ago
    Google Workspace...the one that they let us beta test for free starting like a decade ago? they rolled out a free opt-in after announcing the move to discontinue the free service. here's a cropped screenshot i just took of my control panel: https://ibb.co/nPfLRKK https://ibb.co/nPfLRKK
- eviks 3y ago
2h 3y ago
doesn't seem like much of a loss to lose that "business": a user who hops from free service to free service, and is so opposed to spending money that they will badmouth any business that wants to actually charge for its service.
- Brian_K_White 3y ago
  But I will not become a customer either. Bystanders and witnesses are all potential customers.
- rurp 3y ago
  If a company is happy to lie to and disregard those customers, why offer a free plan in the first place? It makes no sense. People who are willing to pay will notice this behavior.
swyx 3y ago
you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who is without sin…
- dmn322 3y ago
  1) it's not people, it's a company. They're 2 different things. People have consciences and families. Companies are beholden to shareholders. People can find a different job if their company fails. I don't think we need to be forgiving to companies. They're not forgiving to people. They act on policy. 2) While I admit that I'm guilty of it too, overpromising is pretty destructive. It causes you to have to work harder and give stuff for free to deliver, but that in turn causes other people to have to do that too. If overpromising is very common, then that would mean the market is artificially lower, which is why you have people scrambling all the time doing quick and dirty fixes for everything and lots of companies with horrible work-life balance. It would probably be good for the industry if overpromising were a shameful taboo and not just a simple slipup.
  - alexvoda 3y ago
    GP post regarding 1 is just a manifestation of the illness in the US of considering companies to be people. You should not have empathy for a company.
    - barnabee 3y ago
      This. No empathy. Companies have no right not to die or be killed. Society doesn’t need to prop up your business model.
    - runlaszlorun 3y ago
      A little while back I went looking online to find the origins of “a corporation is a person”. I’m no lawyer… so feel free to correct me if anyone is… but it looked like the origins of a “corporation is a person” came from simple administrative needs. That it would be unrealistic to make someone indivdually sue each shareholder separately instead od bundling them into one suit and treating the corporation as “one person”. Sure seems like we’ve lost the plot then. In addition to the situations pointed to above, a corporation doesn’t sign up for the military draft, get taxed on their gross income, pay social security, do jury duty, vote in election, etc, etc, etc.

by pikdum 3y ago

sizzle 3y ago

You can pry my MalwareBytes lifetime license from my cold dead hands

matwood 3y ago

> If a company gets rid of my free forever plan with them, there is a 0% chance that they're getting any money or positive word of mouth from me in the future. It's incredibly scummy behavior. I'm sure they are also willing to give you back any money you have paid to date...

kcartlidge 3y ago
> I'm sure they are also willing to give you back any money you have paid to date... A "free plan" is one thing, and what you say is totally fair for that. A "free forever plan", though, contains a promise. And whilst we know it isn't literally true (companies die or pivot, takeovers happen, economies crash etc), there's an element of broken trust when "forever" is not only dropped but the communications around it are silent or misleading about the loss. I've no skin in the game (or axe to grind) but it feels like that might be the crux of the issue - it's a question of integrity when communicating.

ziml77 3y ago

Still a net gain for the company. Getting something from them for free means you are costing them money. And I would bet your word of mouth was also worth negative dollars to them since you're going to be telling people about the free tier.

Sebb767 3y ago
> And I would bet your word of mouth was also worth negative dollars to them since you're going to be telling people about the free tier. The whole point of having a free tier is to onboard customers and then upsell them to a paid tier. If a referral is costing them money, they are missing the point of a free tier.

jarym 3y ago

Not trying to be funny, but if you're on a 'free forever' plan and happy with it there's already a close-to-0% chance they'll get any money off you...

maleldil 3y ago
There could still be word of mouth that leads to paying customers. Or circumstances change and the paid plans are worth it for previously free customers.
juliusgeo 3y ago
Most of my recommendations for services to use come from my friends who have either used that service on a free plan, or a paid plan. It matters very little in terms of the network effects of their service whether or not you're on a "free plan". See GitHub's free subscriptions of CoPilot for open source contributors.
pikdum 3y ago
Probably not from my personal use, no. But for company use, I'd rather pay for something I'm happy with using personally or have had good experiences with in the past, rather than rolling the dice on something unknown.
bombcar 3y ago
I have had my company purchase company plans for products I use as free or free for personal use. I will never recommend Google Apps for Domains or whatever it is called now after they dicked around.
- rootw0rm 3y ago
  Google Workspace...the one that they let us beta test for free starting like a decade ago? they rolled out a free opt-in after announcing the move to discontinue the free service. here's a cropped screenshot i just took of my control panel: https://ibb.co/nPfLRKK https://ibb.co/nPfLRKK
eviks 3y ago

2h 3y ago

doesn't seem like much of a loss to lose that "business": a user who hops from free service to free service, and is so opposed to spending money that they will badmouth any business that wants to actually charge for its service.

Brian_K_White 3y ago
But I will not become a customer either. Bystanders and witnesses are all potential customers.
rurp 3y ago
If a company is happy to lie to and disregard those customers, why offer a free plan in the first place? It makes no sense. People who are willing to pay will notice this behavior.

swyx 3y ago

you’ve never made a mistake in your future predictions? youve never committed to something you couldnt deliver? i understand the outrage but remember the people on the other side of that screen are just humans too. many things dont turn out the way the initial intention was (im not excusing this specific instance, im just hoping for less vitriol when i someday make some over promising mistake in future). let he who is without sin…

dmn322 3y ago
1) it's not people, it's a company. They're 2 different things. People have consciences and families. Companies are beholden to shareholders. People can find a different job if their company fails. I don't think we need to be forgiving to companies. They're not forgiving to people. They act on policy. 2) While I admit that I'm guilty of it too, overpromising is pretty destructive. It causes you to have to work harder and give stuff for free to deliver, but that in turn causes other people to have to do that too. If overpromising is very common, then that would mean the market is artificially lower, which is why you have people scrambling all the time doing quick and dirty fixes for everything and lots of companies with horrible work-life balance. It would probably be good for the industry if overpromising were a shameful taboo and not just a simple slipup.
- alexvoda 3y ago
  GP post regarding 1 is just a manifestation of the illness in the US of considering companies to be people. You should not have empathy for a company.
  - barnabee 3y ago
    This. No empathy. Companies have no right not to die or be killed. Society doesn’t need to prop up your business model.
  - runlaszlorun 3y ago
    A little while back I went looking online to find the origins of “a corporation is a person”. I’m no lawyer… so feel free to correct me if anyone is… but it looked like the origins of a “corporation is a person” came from simple administrative needs. That it would be unrealistic to make someone indivdually sue each shareholder separately instead od bundling them into one suit and treating the corporation as “one person”. Sure seems like we’ve lost the plot then. In addition to the situations pointed to above, a corporation doesn’t sign up for the military draft, get taxed on their gross income, pay social security, do jury duty, vote in election, etc, etc, etc.