7 ms·

The US won't have the tech in 10 years either if current levels of political tribalism continue. Seems that a lot of people want to see Elon destroyed over Twi

The US won't have the tech in 10 years either if current levels of political tribalism continue. Seems that a lot of people want to see Elon destroyed over Twitter/politics. See the incredibly negative reaction to the Starship launch attempt compared to the much more positive reaction to previous test flights that ended with a boom. And if they destroy our current best hope for the future of space exploration in the process of going after Elon, they don't care, it's 'a win for the environment', or acceptable collateral damage to take down an 'evil multibillionaire' (Maybe Elon should even consider stepping away from SpaceX? - but then projects as ambitious/risky as Starship would likely be dropped)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jackmott42 3y ago
Elon brought that on himself. Fortunately SpaceX will be fine even without him at this point.
- consumer451 3y ago
  Elon going all-in on politics is one of the most disappointing and surprising events in my adult life. Certainly a good lesson in hero worship though. Agreed on SpaceX at this point. Although it would be different, not sure there is a business case for Mars for example.
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    What do you mean going 'all-in' on politics. He still doing the exact same thing as before, running SpaceX and Tesla. By 'all-in' you mean make a few statements on twitter about his opinion? Because that is very different definition for 'all-in' then I have. Going 'all-in' would be to try to get elected president or some dumb shit like that.
    - consumer451 3y ago
      > He still doing the exact same thing as before, running SpaceX and Tesla. I think we are living in different realities, which is the new normal I suppose. You missed one company he has recently purchased. You know, the one that is 100% political in nature? Jeez, just imagine the space telescopes or moon bases he could have invested in, but instead we got Twitter allowing self-described Nazis back on the platform. What a tragic waste of Musk's resources, both mental and financial. What I meant by "all-in" was jumping headlong into the hyper-partisan political fray - and loudly choosing a side! Musk 2021: Elon Musk said he prefers to stay out of politics [0] Musk 2022: Elon Musk says he’ll vote Republican, bashes Democrats [1] [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/09/elon-musk-tesla-spacex-spend-millions-to-influence-politics-and-policy.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/09/elon-musk-tesla-spacex-spend... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/18/elon-musk-says-hell-vote-republican-bashes-democrats.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/18/elon-musk-says-hell-vote-rep...
      - panick21_ 3y ago
        Yes running Twitter and Boring as well, but practically the waste majority of his time is Tesla and SpaceX. I believe Musk fought buying Twitter would be both good politically and he could lead the company more successfully. Hence he wanted to get out of it when it was clear that it was a huge as shares dropped. > Musk 2022: Elon Musk says he’ll vote Republican, bashes Democrats [1] I'm not disagreeing that Musk go more political, but calling it 'all-in' is LITERALLY wrong. All-in would be doing politics as his primary occupation.
        HelloMcFly 3y ago
        Elon Musk went all-in on the culture war of American politics and has vocally sided with the political party on an authoritarian and minoritarian track. He has put his thumb on the scale on more ways than one, including seemingly bad-faith actions e.g. his banning of journalists and unbanning of much less savory characters. He's not running for office, but he's inserted himself part of the larger political narrative.
  - aksss 3y ago
    I think you find some of these people “getting political” because they’ve been cornered and/or burned by media/government/politicians/ngos, badly. It destroys a lot of illusions they have/had about establishment politicians/media. Once you see through it - the cynical opportunism, hypocrisy, double standards, and assumption of power, abuse of groupthink - it’s not something you unsee. And the multi-modal pressure campaigns of that cabal to try and force compliance cause a certain personality type to push back harder rather than bend over (especially if they have fu money). There’s a list of people in the public sphere like this in the last ten years - Musk, Rogan, Brett Weinstein, Peterson, and I dare say Trump was one too. Contrarian voices. Love ‘em or hate ‘em because reasons, but I think their individualist, critical, and contrarian voices are a necessary feature rather than a bug. Edit: that’s not to say you need to treat these people as heroes - I’m reflexively suspicious of that because human nature will always be what it is, but I applaud their ability to give the finger to convention, that’s all.
usefulcat 3y ago
Elon is a great salesman, but I think SpaceX is far enough along that it would be fine without him. Maybe better than fine, given how reckless he can be.
- bluescrn 3y ago
  Without Elon, SpaceX could surely succeed as a business, making good money from launch services and Starlink. They wouldn't get to Mars, though. Starship needs the 'recklessness' of being prepared to fail rapidly, repeatedly, dramatically, and incredibly publicly, while learning from each failure. So far they've managed to ensure that no humans have been injured during launch/landing failures (although the delayed flight termination of the recent launch was worrying, and should probably be more of a concern than the launch site damage)
  - cronix 3y ago
    > Without Elon, SpaceX could surely succeed as a business, making good money from launch services and Starlink. Sure, now that he's pushed them to where they are with his vision. Would we even be talking about landable rockets today without his involvement?
  - kibwen 3y ago
    A focus on Mars could itself bankrupt SpaceX. There's no money to be made from a Mars base. If it distracts from pursuing prospects that actually have economic demand, it will be a disadvantage that competitors will exploit.
    - lutorm 3y ago
      Well, a focus on being able to get to Mars basically means "figure out how to launch stuff extremely cheaply". I think they've been clear that SpaceX is not going to build a Mars base, they just count on it happening once you've driven the cost for getting stuff to Mars sufficiently low. And if you can launch enough things into orbit that a Mars base is feasible, you'll certainly beat everyone else on commercial launches, too. SpaceX plows all its profits into this goal. (Its shareholders aren't getting any returns, not for a long time. The SpaceX investors are playing an extremely long game.) And if you constantly use all your profits to improve your capability, you have a huge long-term advantage over companies that exist to make a profit for their shareholders.
krastanov 3y ago
Was the last Starship launch actually covered or reacted to differently? New York Times basically said "it exploded but experts agree that this was an important step forward" and all coverage and reactions I saw were "gosh, this is awesome, better luck next time". The negative comments I saw were the same I have been seeing since Falcon 9 was learning how to land.
- pinkwinds 3y ago
  Not sure if this will add much, but I've never seen any negative comments before this - perhaps because I'm not really in this space (no pun intended) and don't follow these events. I saw plenty this time around.
CydeWeys 3y ago
Who cares what some people want to see? All that matters is what they can actually help to make happen. And Elon being "destroyed" is only gonna happen through his own actions. He's his own worst enemy, and yes, buying Twitter and all of his subsequent actions with it were a huge mistake, a big unforced error. He's turned a lot of people against him, and for what. Hell, I'm very enthusiastic about space travel and yet he's even turned me against him somewhat, as I absolutely hate the waves of layoffs across tech his actions have precipitated. Him and Zuck basically gave everyone else "permission" too, and us tech workers have suffered severely for it.
- whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
  For saving discourse on the internet. You don’t have to agree with his positions but there is no denying he has brought back the ability to discuss sensitive topics without a throng of zealots having their reports result in quick censoring. It’s like you all forgot we just spent three years calling anyone who disagreed on an untested therapeutic that doesn’t even work a racist.
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    None of that is remotely reflective of reality.
    - hersko 3y ago
      What do you mean? Alex Berenson was kicked off of twitter in the summer of 2021 because of factually correct tweets about covid [1]. [1] https://twitter.com/davidzweig/status/1607382645603704834 https://twitter.com/davidzweig/status/1607382645603704834
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    > It’s like you all forgot we just spent three years calling anyone who disagreed on an untested therapeutic that doesn’t even work a racist. Please be more specific because I have no idea what you're referring to.
- 3y ago
panick21_ 3y ago
> See the incredibly negative reaction to the Starship launch attempt compared to the much more positive reaction to previous test flights that ended with a boom. You are rewriting history. The same fucking thing happens everytime a rocket explodes. The same reaction happened with the earlier test flights again. Some dumb idiots in the media and twitter right bullshit. A few dumb politicans try to cash in and do a bunch of saber rattling in congress. Same game over and over, it doesn't matter and doesn't change anything. SpaceX or Musk will not be destroyed by this nonsense.
- andrewflnr 3y ago
  Eh, I do think the dumb flak was worse with this one, possibly only because it got wider press than previous launches, but that itself might be due to tribal concerns, with Musk generally having more eyes on him. I've been sort of following SpaceX for years, and I definitely saw more dumb stuff about the recent test than any previous one.
  - stirlo 3y ago
    While I tend to agree I think even those in the know were in shock about the amount of damage to the pad. And subsequent disclosure by musk that control was lost at ~30s is also rather shocking compared expectations of an issue occurring later at stage separation or reentry.
    - andrewflnr 3y ago
      Oh, sure, there are real reasons to be worried about the launch, but it took a stupid amount of time for the peanut gallery to say anything more sensical than "rocket go boom, haha fail", which is definitely not a real reason. I still think the failure of the FTS is by far the most important problem.
      - imtringued 3y ago
        I don't know where you get your information but from my perspective the peanut gallery noticed the failure of the flight termination system earlier than the non peanut gallery.
stainablesteel 3y ago
the media wants to see elon go down every time i touch grass while talking about elon people are always amazed with him, why is that?
- imtringued 3y ago
  Because the media doesn't want to see Elon go down. That is in your head.
  - stainablesteel 3y ago
    all the countless articles about him, and everything he does all being painted in a massively negative light is just a fairy tale. its not because he gave a platform to people countering their narratives thanks i didn't realize
- debatem1 3y ago
  What does "touch grass" in this context mean? If you mean "every time I am smoking a joint and talking about Elon" I guess I'm not surprised. If you mean "every time I go outside and talk to people about Elon" I definitely am. There are large parts of my (quite liberal) state where a Tesla gets a pretty negative reaction.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - stainablesteel 3y ago
    i'm basically saying every time i go out and am included in a discussion involving elon. for the past 2 years this has been my experience, i've been traveling throughout 3 different very liberal cities and i don't find people who are as disgusted with his as the media implies. i think that echo chamber is a small one meant to deceive people. if he was such a bad person, why is he doing so much good in the world?
    - debatem1 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jackmott42 3y ago

Elon brought that on himself. Fortunately SpaceX will be fine even without him at this point.

consumer451 3y ago
Elon going all-in on politics is one of the most disappointing and surprising events in my adult life. Certainly a good lesson in hero worship though. Agreed on SpaceX at this point. Although it would be different, not sure there is a business case for Mars for example.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  What do you mean going 'all-in' on politics. He still doing the exact same thing as before, running SpaceX and Tesla. By 'all-in' you mean make a few statements on twitter about his opinion? Because that is very different definition for 'all-in' then I have. Going 'all-in' would be to try to get elected president or some dumb shit like that.
  - consumer451 3y ago
    > He still doing the exact same thing as before, running SpaceX and Tesla. I think we are living in different realities, which is the new normal I suppose. You missed one company he has recently purchased. You know, the one that is 100% political in nature? Jeez, just imagine the space telescopes or moon bases he could have invested in, but instead we got Twitter allowing self-described Nazis back on the platform. What a tragic waste of Musk's resources, both mental and financial. What I meant by "all-in" was jumping headlong into the hyper-partisan political fray - and loudly choosing a side! Musk 2021: Elon Musk said he prefers to stay out of politics [0] Musk 2022: Elon Musk says he’ll vote Republican, bashes Democrats [1] [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/09/elon-musk-tesla-spacex-spend-millions-to-influence-politics-and-policy.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/09/elon-musk-tesla-spacex-spend... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/18/elon-musk-says-hell-vote-republican-bashes-democrats.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/18/elon-musk-says-hell-vote-rep...
    - panick21_ 3y ago
      Yes running Twitter and Boring as well, but practically the waste majority of his time is Tesla and SpaceX. I believe Musk fought buying Twitter would be both good politically and he could lead the company more successfully. Hence he wanted to get out of it when it was clear that it was a huge as shares dropped. > Musk 2022: Elon Musk says he’ll vote Republican, bashes Democrats [1] I'm not disagreeing that Musk go more political, but calling it 'all-in' is LITERALLY wrong. All-in would be doing politics as his primary occupation.
      - HelloMcFly 3y ago
        Elon Musk went all-in on the culture war of American politics and has vocally sided with the political party on an authoritarian and minoritarian track. He has put his thumb on the scale on more ways than one, including seemingly bad-faith actions e.g. his banning of journalists and unbanning of much less savory characters. He's not running for office, but he's inserted himself part of the larger political narrative.
- aksss 3y ago
  I think you find some of these people “getting political” because they’ve been cornered and/or burned by media/government/politicians/ngos, badly. It destroys a lot of illusions they have/had about establishment politicians/media. Once you see through it - the cynical opportunism, hypocrisy, double standards, and assumption of power, abuse of groupthink - it’s not something you unsee. And the multi-modal pressure campaigns of that cabal to try and force compliance cause a certain personality type to push back harder rather than bend over (especially if they have fu money). There’s a list of people in the public sphere like this in the last ten years - Musk, Rogan, Brett Weinstein, Peterson, and I dare say Trump was one too. Contrarian voices. Love ‘em or hate ‘em because reasons, but I think their individualist, critical, and contrarian voices are a necessary feature rather than a bug. Edit: that’s not to say you need to treat these people as heroes - I’m reflexively suspicious of that because human nature will always be what it is, but I applaud their ability to give the finger to convention, that’s all.

usefulcat 3y ago

Elon is a great salesman, but I think SpaceX is far enough along that it would be fine without him. Maybe better than fine, given how reckless he can be.

bluescrn 3y ago
Without Elon, SpaceX could surely succeed as a business, making good money from launch services and Starlink. They wouldn't get to Mars, though. Starship needs the 'recklessness' of being prepared to fail rapidly, repeatedly, dramatically, and incredibly publicly, while learning from each failure. So far they've managed to ensure that no humans have been injured during launch/landing failures (although the delayed flight termination of the recent launch was worrying, and should probably be more of a concern than the launch site damage)
- cronix 3y ago
  > Without Elon, SpaceX could surely succeed as a business, making good money from launch services and Starlink. Sure, now that he's pushed them to where they are with his vision. Would we even be talking about landable rockets today without his involvement?
- kibwen 3y ago
  A focus on Mars could itself bankrupt SpaceX. There's no money to be made from a Mars base. If it distracts from pursuing prospects that actually have economic demand, it will be a disadvantage that competitors will exploit.
  - lutorm 3y ago
    Well, a focus on being able to get to Mars basically means "figure out how to launch stuff extremely cheaply". I think they've been clear that SpaceX is not going to build a Mars base, they just count on it happening once you've driven the cost for getting stuff to Mars sufficiently low. And if you can launch enough things into orbit that a Mars base is feasible, you'll certainly beat everyone else on commercial launches, too. SpaceX plows all its profits into this goal. (Its shareholders aren't getting any returns, not for a long time. The SpaceX investors are playing an extremely long game.) And if you constantly use all your profits to improve your capability, you have a huge long-term advantage over companies that exist to make a profit for their shareholders.

krastanov 3y ago

Was the last Starship launch actually covered or reacted to differently? New York Times basically said "it exploded but experts agree that this was an important step forward" and all coverage and reactions I saw were "gosh, this is awesome, better luck next time". The negative comments I saw were the same I have been seeing since Falcon 9 was learning how to land.

pinkwinds 3y ago
Not sure if this will add much, but I've never seen any negative comments before this - perhaps because I'm not really in this space (no pun intended) and don't follow these events. I saw plenty this time around.

CydeWeys 3y ago

Who cares what some people want to see? All that matters is what they can actually help to make happen. And Elon being "destroyed" is only gonna happen through his own actions. He's his own worst enemy, and yes, buying Twitter and all of his subsequent actions with it were a huge mistake, a big unforced error. He's turned a lot of people against him, and for what. Hell, I'm very enthusiastic about space travel and yet he's even turned me against him somewhat, as I absolutely hate the waves of layoffs across tech his actions have precipitated. Him and Zuck basically gave everyone else "permission" too, and us tech workers have suffered severely for it.

whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
For saving discourse on the internet. You don’t have to agree with his positions but there is no denying he has brought back the ability to discuss sensitive topics without a throng of zealots having their reports result in quick censoring. It’s like you all forgot we just spent three years calling anyone who disagreed on an untested therapeutic that doesn’t even work a racist.
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  None of that is remotely reflective of reality.
  - hersko 3y ago
    What do you mean? Alex Berenson was kicked off of twitter in the summer of 2021 because of factually correct tweets about covid [1]. [1] https://twitter.com/davidzweig/status/1607382645603704834 https://twitter.com/davidzweig/status/1607382645603704834
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  > It’s like you all forgot we just spent three years calling anyone who disagreed on an untested therapeutic that doesn’t even work a racist. Please be more specific because I have no idea what you're referring to.
3y ago

panick21_ 3y ago

> See the incredibly negative reaction to the Starship launch attempt compared to the much more positive reaction to previous test flights that ended with a boom. You are rewriting history. The same fucking thing happens everytime a rocket explodes. The same reaction happened with the earlier test flights again. Some dumb idiots in the media and twitter right bullshit. A few dumb politicans try to cash in and do a bunch of saber rattling in congress. Same game over and over, it doesn't matter and doesn't change anything. SpaceX or Musk will not be destroyed by this nonsense.

andrewflnr 3y ago
Eh, I do think the dumb flak was worse with this one, possibly only because it got wider press than previous launches, but that itself might be due to tribal concerns, with Musk generally having more eyes on him. I've been sort of following SpaceX for years, and I definitely saw more dumb stuff about the recent test than any previous one.
- stirlo 3y ago
  While I tend to agree I think even those in the know were in shock about the amount of damage to the pad. And subsequent disclosure by musk that control was lost at ~30s is also rather shocking compared expectations of an issue occurring later at stage separation or reentry.
  - andrewflnr 3y ago
    Oh, sure, there are real reasons to be worried about the launch, but it took a stupid amount of time for the peanut gallery to say anything more sensical than "rocket go boom, haha fail", which is definitely not a real reason. I still think the failure of the FTS is by far the most important problem.
    - imtringued 3y ago
      I don't know where you get your information but from my perspective the peanut gallery noticed the failure of the flight termination system earlier than the non peanut gallery.

stainablesteel 3y ago

the media wants to see elon go down every time i touch grass while talking about elon people are always amazed with him, why is that?

imtringued 3y ago
Because the media doesn't want to see Elon go down. That is in your head.
- stainablesteel 3y ago
  all the countless articles about him, and everything he does all being painted in a massively negative light is just a fairy tale. its not because he gave a platform to people countering their narratives thanks i didn't realize
debatem1 3y ago
What does "touch grass" in this context mean? If you mean "every time I am smoking a joint and talking about Elon" I guess I'm not surprised. If you mean "every time I go outside and talk to people about Elon" I definitely am. There are large parts of my (quite liberal) state where a Tesla gets a pretty negative reaction.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- stainablesteel 3y ago
  i'm basically saying every time i go out and am included in a discussion involving elon. for the past 2 years this has been my experience, i've been traveling throughout 3 different very liberal cities and i don't find people who are as disgusted with his as the media implies. i think that echo chamber is a small one meant to deceive people. if he was such a bad person, why is he doing so much good in the world?
  - debatem1 3y ago