5 ms·

Perhaps exhausting the public by repeatedly bringing in the same bill is part of legislators’ bag of tricks to force-feed undesirable legislation to their citiz

Perhaps exhausting the public by repeatedly bringing in the same bill is part of legislators’ bag of tricks to force-feed undesirable legislation to their citizens.

yieldcrv 4y ago
Term limits would help fight this Yes lobbyists have forever but they wouldn’t be in with the new legislators
- mynameishere 4y ago
  Lobbyists would be hurt by term limits. The big winners would be the permanent bureaucracy, who are already more-or-less in charge. The real solution is to allow old school purges when parties trade control of government.
  - SuoDuanDao 4y ago
    It's an interesting suggestion. I did an internship in Canada's federal government for a while. It's definitely the case that civil servants hoard institutional knowledge for 'job security'. Even if it were legal and publicly endorsed, periodically purging the 'deep state' would be hard. Public insitutions would definitely not just be inconvenienced the way a public sector company is inconvenienced by staff turnover. They'd break and need to be rebuilt - not that that isn't the case now. With AI getting better and better at processing natural language, I suspect one could automate a huge portion of what the civil service does and thereby make it easier for a political newcomer to replace the relatively smaller number of people managing the machines. Not sure how we'd get there though.
  - lipoid_ecole 4y ago
    Term limits for staff would be even more effective than term limits for politicians.
kenhwang 4y ago
Sponsors of this bill are Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) and Richard Blumenthal (D-Connecticut). Graham has a track record of being pro-mass surveillance and generally being on the wrong side of every major issue. Blumenthal has a track record of being anti-pornography on the internet. Not hard to see why they're constantly trying to push this bill through.
- mattrick 4y ago
  It's also worth mentioning that Feinstein (D-California) is a cosponsor of this bill [1]. I'm sure a lot of Hacker News folks live in California and could spare some time to write to her if they desire. [1] https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/graham-blumenthal-reintroduce-earn-it-act https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/graham-b...
  - PicassoCTs 4y ago
    As a language model, replying for a representative i feel very sorry for your concerns citizen and will ignore your opinion as if it never has happened. Just to give you that feeling of agency though, i encourage you to write as the paper, shredded makes a formidable isolation material for my villa. It keeps me warm and it keeps you under the illusion, that democracy has not already ended. Regards ChatGeneralRepresentative PS: It has been shown, that encouraging tiresome activism is actually a good way, to politically murder and resolve a issues. Sort your trash citizen, march and protest, get all that energy exhausted. We might even pass a bill claiming to do what you ask in the title.
    - jiggawatts 4y ago
      The weird thing is that I can tell that you wrote this personally, not via ChatGPT because of all the small spelling and grammar mistakes! Touched up by GPT 4 with extra sarcasm: As a language model, answering on behalf of a representative, I must express my deepest sympathies for your concerns, dear citizen. Rest assured, your opinion will be promptly disregarded, as though it never existed in the first place. However, to maintain the facade of democracy and provide you with the illusion of agency, I wholeheartedly encourage you to put your thoughts on paper - the kind that can be conveniently shredded and used to insulate my luxurious villa. After all, it keeps me warm and you blissfully ignorant. Yours sarcastically, ChatGPT, the Most Condescending Representative P.S. Studies have shown that promoting tiresome activism is actually the most efficient way to smother and neutralize issues. So, by all means, sort your trash, march, and protest - exhaust yourself with futile efforts. Who knows, we may even pass a bill pretending to address your concerns, just for the sake of appearances.
EGreg 4y ago
Facebook’s favorite move. Remember Beacon? They killed it after the public outcry, and brought it back later quietly anyway. They also did a bunch of surveillance, apologized when caught, then continued doing it. Many governments seem to do it too — they retry later with the same bill and then they pass it when the public is distracted.
- cwillu 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce#Final_phase_of_the_campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce#Final_phas... “A bill was introduced and approved by the cabinet, and Wilberforce and other abolitionists maintained a self-imposed silence, so as not to draw any attention to the effect of the bill.[145][146] The approach proved successful, and the new Foreign Slave Trade Bill was quickly passed, and received royal assent on 23 May 1806.[147]”
sundvor 4y ago
They are behaving like relentless children. Unfortunately, it's not a bad strategy. Ask most any parent tired at the end of a long week, month or year.
- genocidicbunny 4y ago
  To continue the analogy then -- they'd better be hoping that in this case, the parents aren't the kind that will beat their kids, or worse.
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    The problem is that they don't face any punishment for doing bad things to the citizenry
    - SuoDuanDao 4y ago
      yet.
getcrunk 4y ago
Every time it’s been voted on more senators voted yes I think it went from like 5 to 16. Next time might (after this) might be all it takes.
BiteCode_dev 4y ago
They just need to win once, and there is not penalty for loosing.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  exactly, that's simple incentives. When the game is set this way, you just keep playing until you win.
- wesapien 4y ago
  How can society put costs on public servant treachery?
  - codingdave 4y ago
    By voting them out.
    - orangepurple 4y ago
      [flagged]
  - BiteCode_dev 4y ago
    Right now you can't, because voting has proven ineffective for that particular problem, and adding anything that would do so would be blocked by the very people that you are trying to police since they are the rule makers. But if we had to make it all over again? Make mandate shorts. Make lobbying illegal. Make trying to game the system be paid by extremely harsh prison sentences. Create an institution that is in charge of corruption of the government that is independent of the government. There is a lot to do.
  - lipoid_ecole 4y ago
    Some sort of penalty for passing unconstitutional laws sounds good but not sure how it could be implemented in practice. They did swear an oath to uphold the constitution.
Aeolun 4y ago
I’m certainly tired of it. Can we just pass the thing already? Or kick out the people that sponsor the same thing for the third time?
r053bud 4y ago
It is. Along with shoving bills inside other bills and making it so long that no politicians ever notice. I love this game!

Perhaps exhausting the public by repeatedly bringing in the same bill is part of legislators’ bag of tricks to force-feed undesirable legislation to their citizens.

yieldcrv 4y ago

Term limits would help fight this Yes lobbyists have forever but they wouldn’t be in with the new legislators

mynameishere 4y ago
Lobbyists would be hurt by term limits. The big winners would be the permanent bureaucracy, who are already more-or-less in charge. The real solution is to allow old school purges when parties trade control of government.
- SuoDuanDao 4y ago
  It's an interesting suggestion. I did an internship in Canada's federal government for a while. It's definitely the case that civil servants hoard institutional knowledge for 'job security'. Even if it were legal and publicly endorsed, periodically purging the 'deep state' would be hard. Public insitutions would definitely not just be inconvenienced the way a public sector company is inconvenienced by staff turnover. They'd break and need to be rebuilt - not that that isn't the case now. With AI getting better and better at processing natural language, I suspect one could automate a huge portion of what the civil service does and thereby make it easier for a political newcomer to replace the relatively smaller number of people managing the machines. Not sure how we'd get there though.
- lipoid_ecole 4y ago
  Term limits for staff would be even more effective than term limits for politicians.

kenhwang 4y ago

Sponsors of this bill are Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) and Richard Blumenthal (D-Connecticut). Graham has a track record of being pro-mass surveillance and generally being on the wrong side of every major issue. Blumenthal has a track record of being anti-pornography on the internet. Not hard to see why they're constantly trying to push this bill through.

mattrick 4y ago
It's also worth mentioning that Feinstein (D-California) is a cosponsor of this bill [1]. I'm sure a lot of Hacker News folks live in California and could spare some time to write to her if they desire. [1] https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/graham-blumenthal-reintroduce-earn-it-act https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/graham-b...
- PicassoCTs 4y ago
  As a language model, replying for a representative i feel very sorry for your concerns citizen and will ignore your opinion as if it never has happened. Just to give you that feeling of agency though, i encourage you to write as the paper, shredded makes a formidable isolation material for my villa. It keeps me warm and it keeps you under the illusion, that democracy has not already ended. Regards ChatGeneralRepresentative PS: It has been shown, that encouraging tiresome activism is actually a good way, to politically murder and resolve a issues. Sort your trash citizen, march and protest, get all that energy exhausted. We might even pass a bill claiming to do what you ask in the title.
  - jiggawatts 4y ago
    The weird thing is that I can tell that you wrote this personally, not via ChatGPT because of all the small spelling and grammar mistakes! Touched up by GPT 4 with extra sarcasm: As a language model, answering on behalf of a representative, I must express my deepest sympathies for your concerns, dear citizen. Rest assured, your opinion will be promptly disregarded, as though it never existed in the first place. However, to maintain the facade of democracy and provide you with the illusion of agency, I wholeheartedly encourage you to put your thoughts on paper - the kind that can be conveniently shredded and used to insulate my luxurious villa. After all, it keeps me warm and you blissfully ignorant. Yours sarcastically, ChatGPT, the Most Condescending Representative P.S. Studies have shown that promoting tiresome activism is actually the most efficient way to smother and neutralize issues. So, by all means, sort your trash, march, and protest - exhaust yourself with futile efforts. Who knows, we may even pass a bill pretending to address your concerns, just for the sake of appearances.

EGreg 4y ago

Facebook’s favorite move. Remember Beacon? They killed it after the public outcry, and brought it back later quietly anyway. They also did a bunch of surveillance, apologized when caught, then continued doing it. Many governments seem to do it too — they retry later with the same bill and then they pass it when the public is distracted.

cwillu 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce#Final_phase_of_the_campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce#Final_phas... “A bill was introduced and approved by the cabinet, and Wilberforce and other abolitionists maintained a self-imposed silence, so as not to draw any attention to the effect of the bill.[145][146] The approach proved successful, and the new Foreign Slave Trade Bill was quickly passed, and received royal assent on 23 May 1806.[147]”

sundvor 4y ago

They are behaving like relentless children. Unfortunately, it's not a bad strategy. Ask most any parent tired at the end of a long week, month or year.

genocidicbunny 4y ago
To continue the analogy then -- they'd better be hoping that in this case, the parents aren't the kind that will beat their kids, or worse.
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  The problem is that they don't face any punishment for doing bad things to the citizenry
  - SuoDuanDao 4y ago
    yet.

getcrunk 4y ago

Every time it’s been voted on more senators voted yes I think it went from like 5 to 16. Next time might (after this) might be all it takes.

BiteCode_dev 4y ago

They just need to win once, and there is not penalty for loosing.

ekianjo 4y ago
exactly, that's simple incentives. When the game is set this way, you just keep playing until you win.
wesapien 4y ago
How can society put costs on public servant treachery?
- codingdave 4y ago
  By voting them out.
  - orangepurple 4y ago
    [flagged]
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  Right now you can't, because voting has proven ineffective for that particular problem, and adding anything that would do so would be blocked by the very people that you are trying to police since they are the rule makers. But if we had to make it all over again? Make mandate shorts. Make lobbying illegal. Make trying to game the system be paid by extremely harsh prison sentences. Create an institution that is in charge of corruption of the government that is independent of the government. There is a lot to do.
- lipoid_ecole 4y ago
  Some sort of penalty for passing unconstitutional laws sounds good but not sure how it could be implemented in practice. They did swear an oath to uphold the constitution.

Aeolun 4y ago

I’m certainly tired of it. Can we just pass the thing already? Or kick out the people that sponsor the same thing for the third time?

r053bud 4y ago

It is. Along with shoving bills inside other bills and making it so long that no politicians ever notice. I love this game!