11 ms·

Thank you for being a voice of righteousness in a sea of simps. It’s hard to tell on this site, are people really this devoted to corps or are they shills? Ev

Thank you for being a voice of righteousness in a sea of simps. It’s hard to tell on this site, are people really this devoted to corps or are they shills? Even with what you said there are still so many people defending this behavior. The world is full of weak and/or deceitful people.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
>are people really this devoted to corps or are they shills? I think a lot of people defend this because they themselves work for tech companies who's products or services are also profitable due to some for of rent-seeking which ensure great profits and wages that wouldn't be possible otherwise because let's face it, the most profitable SW companies where the HN audience most likely works at, don't sell you a lifetime license to their product on a CD for a flat fee anymore like it's the '90s but are most likely subscription-ware. It is indeed a bit hypocritical to criticize automakers for doing the same thing that beloved tech companies are doing which is what makes them so profitable and yet nobody bats an eye.
- JediWing 3y ago
  Continually running a service with its own recurring costs with additional improvements (SaaS) justifies a subscription, because your product is constantly improving, and constantly incurring costs. A one-time car purchase costs the car company some capex upfront. They actually incur more cost running whatever DRM servers lock these motors down to prop up this extortionary business model.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    Are you saying there's no rent-seeking SW out there?
    - JediWing 3y ago
      There certainly are, I'm just pointing out that much of the software that is charging a subscription is doing so to more closely structure their revenue to their expenditures.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Software as a service is a continuous operation. Cars aren't. Not hypocritical at all. No one cares that they want to be as profitable as big techs. We want to own our damn cars. We want to accelerate as much as we want. It's that simple and requires no further justification. We take issue with big techs locking down computers too. No problem with them running whatever they want on their servers but we want to run whatever we want on our computers too without their interference.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    >Software as a service is a continuous operation. I would pay to get software not as a service. Fuck your updates, I don't want bloody updates that end up breaking my stuff and wasting my time. Give me one version, no updates and no support, and I will give you top dollars. If I want an update I'll come back to repeat the process again, giving you top dollars again, several years down the road. Are big purchases every several years cheaper than a subscription? I don't know and I don't care. Sell me your fucking software as a fucking static product, I am happy to pay the premium for it.
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      That's okay, I was just pointing out that it's not hypocritical at all. Personally I'd rather have free as in freedom software running locally on unlocked computers. This should be the norm and use of technology like remote attestation to penalize us for exercising our freedoms should be illegal.
    - kingTug 3y ago
      I guess I sort of grew up in the SaaS era - to this day it blows my mind that one of the most perfect pieces of software I have ever enjoyed - N64's Goldeneye - was created by ~10 devs, who had one single release. I often fantasize about joining team like that while daydreaming in the poker-card scrum sessions at the agile sweatshop I currently take my paycheck from :/
      - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
entrox 3y ago
Take a look at the profit margin (and market valuation) of automotive companies and compare them to tech companies. Now also make a comparison of average developer/engineer salaries at both. Is it not OK for the automotive folks to get to the same level as their FAANG brethren? Disclaimer: I work for an automotive OEM.
- jwilber 3y ago
  You’re completely ignoring the customer (people like you) in favor of the (already mega rich) corporations. What a mindset.
  - entrox 3y ago
    > You’re completely ignoring the customer (people like you) in favor of the (already mega rich) corporations. What a mindset. No, I want the company I work for to have similar profit margins as FAANG and thus increase my compensation. Do you also attack those employees because their companies are charging extra for pure software unlocks or subscriptions?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - nosianu 3y ago
      Car companies already and always have made money from continued support of their products. Car maintenance and repairs and spare parts and the work already cost money. So, not even remotely the same. You can complain about any company that wants to continuously make money for nothing in return. Just look at ink printers. Rent seeking sure is attractive, yes. Nobody owes you anything. There are MANY jobs that deserve such high salaries far more, just try anything related to caring for sick and/or old people. It's just that "deserve" has got nothing to do with anything! Also, look at all the other countries and companies. That kind of complaint to me sounds more like a multi-millionaire looking at the even grander mansion next door and claiming they deserve at least that much too and that the world is so unfair to them. You picked the very, very few where some people make even more. It's hardly all the tens of thousands of employees of the FAANGs that all make a few hundred thousand, just a small fraction. Cars also are not nearly as innovative. They are much farther along their product cycle. Oh sure, they did a lot of work, but the car still uses about as much fuel as it always did, and gets you barely any faster than it always did from A to B. But all the entertainment you get now! And all the electronics! Yeah okay. But the end product still doesn't deliver that much more value compared to a 1970s car. Some of them were actually more comfortable, easier to use, and easier to look out of. I do understand that there's been a lot of work on safety too since then, and that deaths went down. But I didn't claim there was zero innovation, did I? Only that you compared yourself with the latest and greatest new tech, such as AI, and in that elevated niche you again picked their highest paid people, and that seriously is your chosen comparison? Oh and when we are looking at all the innovation in cars, may I point to the discussions - right here on HN too - about software, UIs, and cheating German car makers (I'm German too by the way), and how German car makers are big losers in China, and quality issues in German cars (https://newsingermany.com/german-car-manufacturers-fail-us-study-quality-problems-are-increasing/ https://newsingermany.com/german-car-manufacturers-fail-us-s...)?
waboremo 3y ago
So what are you doing to change it? Are you getting involved in helping this become a focus of regulation? Maybe you'll call your representatives up? I ask these questions because often times people work themselves into a frenzy, and then take zero action. Hopefully you aren't one of them.
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  Nice, an ad hominem attack. We can't all afford to devote our lives to activism. But change starts with education and we can be educators when these topics come up. That's not useless.
  - Gibbon1 3y ago
    It's the old very tiresome, well why don't you devote your life to fixing the problem while I do absolutely nothing. Then get back to me.
    - kerkeslager 3y ago
      What are you doing about it, complaining on the internet? :P Nobody's asking you to do anything, except maybe stop with the ad-hominem attacks and participate in the conversation in a rational way.
xeromal 3y ago
Simps is a strange choice of words for a post on hackernews.
- the_only_law 3y ago
  Not particularly as of recent.
- checkyoursudo 3y ago
  Seems fine. Always go for Sir Mix-A-Lot nostalgia drips whenever I can get them. Why do you think it is strange?
  - nicenewtemp84 3y ago
    I thought simp stood for "someone idolizing mediocre pu__y", a slur for guys commiting and caring too much about lower tier women. Doesn't really seem to fit a discussion about people agreeing with a corporation.
    - akavi 3y ago
      Protip: Slang words almost never come from acronyms (The lone exception I've found is "thot")
      - floydnoel 3y ago
        Yep there’s a lot of backronyms out there
      - nicenewtemp84 3y ago
        It may not have come from an acronym, but that seems to be the common usage and inferred meaning these days. If not, what is it?
    - RobotToaster 3y ago
      It's short for simpleton.
gambiting 3y ago
A lot of people here think building a successful subscription based product is the absolute goal in life. To them Mercedes (and BMW and others) doing this isn't dumb - it's super smart and worth applauding. Otherwise you're just leaving money on the table /s.
- olyjohn 3y ago
  You put the /s, but I don't think this comment is inaccurate in any way. Some people really have enthusiasm for nothing but making money. No hobbies, no interests, no friends, no other goals.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    I'm very enthusiastic about making money too but I don't really want to sell my soul to make it happen.
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    > Some people really have enthusiasm for nothing but making money. As long as those people have morals, what’s wrong with that?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - kingTug 3y ago
      The people who seem most enthusiastic for giant bank accounts (read: billionaires) seem to lack these morals, by and large.
      - amelius 3y ago
        The economy is based on too simple rules, hence unfair, hence this is what happens.
    - flangola7 3y ago
      Greed has long been understood to be fundamentally immoral by many civilizations and cultures throughout history.
user61129028 3y ago
> Thank you for being a voice of righteousness in a sea of simps Where is this sea of simps? I don't see anyone defending this type of behavior.
VirusNewbie 3y ago
I am against the government deciding that contracts between two people are illegal. No one is forced to buy a mercedes. There is nothing even close to a monopoly when it comes to cars. If Mercedes wants to charge customers every time they push a button in their car, why should the government decide to stop them.
- kelnos 3y ago
  Then you must be against child labor laws, and laws that prohibit people selling themselves into slavery because they have few choices in the world. Power imbalances mean that some people will use contracts to exploit others. Protecting people from that is valuable. Certainly a Mercedes purchaser is not quite in the same league there, but it's not like we haven't heard of similar subscription ploys on lower-end cars too.
neuralRiot 3y ago
Personally i’m not in favor or against this particularly, but in favor of free market, after all mercedes or BMW are not selling lifesaving drugs or food if someone is able and willing to pay for a stupid “addon” why not?

ChuckNorris89 3y ago

>are people really this devoted to corps or are they shills? I think a lot of people defend this because they themselves work for tech companies who's products or services are also profitable due to some for of rent-seeking which ensure great profits and wages that wouldn't be possible otherwise because let's face it, the most profitable SW companies where the HN audience most likely works at, don't sell you a lifetime license to their product on a CD for a flat fee anymore like it's the '90s but are most likely subscription-ware. It is indeed a bit hypocritical to criticize automakers for doing the same thing that beloved tech companies are doing which is what makes them so profitable and yet nobody bats an eye.

JediWing 3y ago
Continually running a service with its own recurring costs with additional improvements (SaaS) justifies a subscription, because your product is constantly improving, and constantly incurring costs. A one-time car purchase costs the car company some capex upfront. They actually incur more cost running whatever DRM servers lock these motors down to prop up this extortionary business model.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Are you saying there's no rent-seeking SW out there?
  - JediWing 3y ago
    There certainly are, I'm just pointing out that much of the software that is charging a subscription is doing so to more closely structure their revenue to their expenditures.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
Software as a service is a continuous operation. Cars aren't. Not hypocritical at all. No one cares that they want to be as profitable as big techs. We want to own our damn cars. We want to accelerate as much as we want. It's that simple and requires no further justification. We take issue with big techs locking down computers too. No problem with them running whatever they want on their servers but we want to run whatever we want on our computers too without their interference.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  >Software as a service is a continuous operation. I would pay to get software not as a service. Fuck your updates, I don't want bloody updates that end up breaking my stuff and wasting my time. Give me one version, no updates and no support, and I will give you top dollars. If I want an update I'll come back to repeat the process again, giving you top dollars again, several years down the road. Are big purchases every several years cheaper than a subscription? I don't know and I don't care. Sell me your fucking software as a fucking static product, I am happy to pay the premium for it.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    That's okay, I was just pointing out that it's not hypocritical at all. Personally I'd rather have free as in freedom software running locally on unlocked computers. This should be the norm and use of technology like remote attestation to penalize us for exercising our freedoms should be illegal.
  - kingTug 3y ago
    I guess I sort of grew up in the SaaS era - to this day it blows my mind that one of the most perfect pieces of software I have ever enjoyed - N64's Goldeneye - was created by ~10 devs, who had one single release. I often fantasize about joining team like that while daydreaming in the poker-card scrum sessions at the agile sweatshop I currently take my paycheck from :/
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago

entrox 3y ago

Take a look at the profit margin (and market valuation) of automotive companies and compare them to tech companies. Now also make a comparison of average developer/engineer salaries at both. Is it not OK for the automotive folks to get to the same level as their FAANG brethren? Disclaimer: I work for an automotive OEM.

jwilber 3y ago
You’re completely ignoring the customer (people like you) in favor of the (already mega rich) corporations. What a mindset.
- entrox 3y ago
  > You’re completely ignoring the customer (people like you) in favor of the (already mega rich) corporations. What a mindset. No, I want the company I work for to have similar profit margins as FAANG and thus increase my compensation. Do you also attack those employees because their companies are charging extra for pure software unlocks or subscriptions?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - nosianu 3y ago
    Car companies already and always have made money from continued support of their products. Car maintenance and repairs and spare parts and the work already cost money. So, not even remotely the same. You can complain about any company that wants to continuously make money for nothing in return. Just look at ink printers. Rent seeking sure is attractive, yes. Nobody owes you anything. There are MANY jobs that deserve such high salaries far more, just try anything related to caring for sick and/or old people. It's just that "deserve" has got nothing to do with anything! Also, look at all the other countries and companies. That kind of complaint to me sounds more like a multi-millionaire looking at the even grander mansion next door and claiming they deserve at least that much too and that the world is so unfair to them. You picked the very, very few where some people make even more. It's hardly all the tens of thousands of employees of the FAANGs that all make a few hundred thousand, just a small fraction. Cars also are not nearly as innovative. They are much farther along their product cycle. Oh sure, they did a lot of work, but the car still uses about as much fuel as it always did, and gets you barely any faster than it always did from A to B. But all the entertainment you get now! And all the electronics! Yeah okay. But the end product still doesn't deliver that much more value compared to a 1970s car. Some of them were actually more comfortable, easier to use, and easier to look out of. I do understand that there's been a lot of work on safety too since then, and that deaths went down. But I didn't claim there was zero innovation, did I? Only that you compared yourself with the latest and greatest new tech, such as AI, and in that elevated niche you again picked their highest paid people, and that seriously is your chosen comparison? Oh and when we are looking at all the innovation in cars, may I point to the discussions - right here on HN too - about software, UIs, and cheating German car makers (I'm German too by the way), and how German car makers are big losers in China, and quality issues in German cars (https://newsingermany.com/german-car-manufacturers-fail-us-study-quality-problems-are-increasing/ https://newsingermany.com/german-car-manufacturers-fail-us-s...)?

waboremo 3y ago

So what are you doing to change it? Are you getting involved in helping this become a focus of regulation? Maybe you'll call your representatives up? I ask these questions because often times people work themselves into a frenzy, and then take zero action. Hopefully you aren't one of them.

kerkeslager 3y ago
Nice, an ad hominem attack. We can't all afford to devote our lives to activism. But change starts with education and we can be educators when these topics come up. That's not useless.
- Gibbon1 3y ago
  It's the old very tiresome, well why don't you devote your life to fixing the problem while I do absolutely nothing. Then get back to me.
  - kerkeslager 3y ago
    What are you doing about it, complaining on the internet? :P Nobody's asking you to do anything, except maybe stop with the ad-hominem attacks and participate in the conversation in a rational way.

xeromal 3y ago

Simps is a strange choice of words for a post on hackernews.

the_only_law 3y ago
Not particularly as of recent.
checkyoursudo 3y ago
Seems fine. Always go for Sir Mix-A-Lot nostalgia drips whenever I can get them. Why do you think it is strange?
- nicenewtemp84 3y ago
  I thought simp stood for "someone idolizing mediocre pu__y", a slur for guys commiting and caring too much about lower tier women. Doesn't really seem to fit a discussion about people agreeing with a corporation.
  - akavi 3y ago
    Protip: Slang words almost never come from acronyms (The lone exception I've found is "thot")
    - floydnoel 3y ago
      Yep there’s a lot of backronyms out there
    - nicenewtemp84 3y ago
      It may not have come from an acronym, but that seems to be the common usage and inferred meaning these days. If not, what is it?
  - RobotToaster 3y ago
    It's short for simpleton.

gambiting 3y ago

A lot of people here think building a successful subscription based product is the absolute goal in life. To them Mercedes (and BMW and others) doing this isn't dumb - it's super smart and worth applauding. Otherwise you're just leaving money on the table /s.

olyjohn 3y ago
You put the /s, but I don't think this comment is inaccurate in any way. Some people really have enthusiasm for nothing but making money. No hobbies, no interests, no friends, no other goals.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  I'm very enthusiastic about making money too but I don't really want to sell my soul to make it happen.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > Some people really have enthusiasm for nothing but making money. As long as those people have morals, what’s wrong with that?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - kingTug 3y ago
    The people who seem most enthusiastic for giant bank accounts (read: billionaires) seem to lack these morals, by and large.
    - amelius 3y ago
      The economy is based on too simple rules, hence unfair, hence this is what happens.
  - flangola7 3y ago
    Greed has long been understood to be fundamentally immoral by many civilizations and cultures throughout history.

user61129028 3y ago

> Thank you for being a voice of righteousness in a sea of simps Where is this sea of simps? I don't see anyone defending this type of behavior.

VirusNewbie 3y ago

I am against the government deciding that contracts between two people are illegal. No one is forced to buy a mercedes. There is nothing even close to a monopoly when it comes to cars. If Mercedes wants to charge customers every time they push a button in their car, why should the government decide to stop them.

kelnos 3y ago
Then you must be against child labor laws, and laws that prohibit people selling themselves into slavery because they have few choices in the world. Power imbalances mean that some people will use contracts to exploit others. Protecting people from that is valuable. Certainly a Mercedes purchaser is not quite in the same league there, but it's not like we haven't heard of similar subscription ploys on lower-end cars too.

neuralRiot 3y ago

Personally i’m not in favor or against this particularly, but in favor of free market, after all mercedes or BMW are not selling lifesaving drugs or food if someone is able and willing to pay for a stupid “addon” why not?