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Is Perpetual Motion Possible at the Quantum Level?
- TheRealPomax 3y agoEverything in this universe is in perpetual motion. Perpetual motion is trivial. Now, perpetual motion energy... now we have something to which the answer is and will always be "no".
- rightbyte 3y ago> So a time crystal is a phase of matter that spontaneously breaks this translation symmetry in time, to show you some kind of periodic, pulsing forever. Isn't this Maxwell's Demon?
- kadoban 3y agoOnly if it can choose arbitrary particles to let through a gate or reject. Pulsing is just standing still, but with a bit extra flair.
- peterashford 3y agoIs that like falling with style?
- taneq 3y agoYes but in all directions at one!
- BlueTemplar 3y agoNo, but debates around Maxwell's Demon, Landauer's Principle and reversible computing are still kind of ongoing... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26908886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26908886 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle#Challenges https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle#Challen... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing > Due to the unitarity of quantum mechanics, quantum circuits are reversible, as long as they do not "collapse" the quantum states they operate on.
- sitkack 3y agoWhat does thermoquantum-mechanics even mean?
- EA-3167 3y agoAs long as people understand this means perpetual motion which is incapable of doing work is possible, because there's no indication that you can somehow extract anything from this.
- DennisP 3y agoIt does make me wonder whether this could help with reversible computing, which reverses out everything except its output, which is all you pay energy for. In theory that would be vastly more efficient.
- meindnoch 3y agoIt could be fashioned into a neat desk toy though!
- zadler 3y agoIf such a toy could be created that displayed a perpetual quantum process, wouldn’t that count as doing work? If so, then you could only have one that contains an unobservable perpetual quantum process; well, you’d need to trust that the seller that it does!
- zopa 3y agoNo, it wouldn’t count: “work” in this context is a technical physics term meaning a force applied over a distance.
- c22 3y agoIf you are not observing some force over some distance then what, exactly, are you observing?
- xboxnolifes 3y agoConstant motion doesn't require constant force.
- mjfl 3y agoperpetual motion is kind of guaranteed by quantum mechanics because absolute stillness is impossible.
- nico 3y agoIsn’t perpetual motion the basis of the whole universe? I mean, it hasn’t stopped yet, right? And it technically does all the work we do?
- irrational 3y agoDoesn't the heat death of the universe contradict this?
- peterashford 3y agoHasn't been empirically observed yet ;-P Seriously thou: it seems reasonable to assume that our current models of the universe may be incomplete.
- fowtowmowcow 3y agoThat's only one plausible ending to the universe, while perhaps favored, certainly far from being determined. Then there's handwaving about given a large enough time scale energy should randomly concentrate enough to 'restart' the universe or something silly along those lines. For myself I like the notion of the universe starting from a breaking of symmetry of whatever base form of energy the universe is built out of. This allows for scattering of information, increasing diversity and complexity of the system, while also not adding or creating any new energy. So if the universe can start in a place of equilibrium I'd imagine after heat death leads to a static state then 'restarting' is possible since it's happened at least once.
- tshaddox 3y agoPerpetual motion actually means a violation of the first or second law of thermodynamics, rather than just something moving for a very long time.
- TheRealPomax 3y agoThat's perpetual motion machines, not perpetual motion. As a closed system, the universe (as a whole, not in parts) absolutely qualifies as being in perpetual motion, you just can't take energy out of the system. (which is convenient for us, because we're part of the system)
- wmf 3y agoWhat is the deal with physicists and clickbait? They've redefined "free will", "teleportation", and now "perpetual motion".
- chermi 3y agoLol, you think this it's the physicist choosing the headline? I mean, there are some dumbass physicists out there that will do anything for attention (max tegmark, Neil Tyson, etc.), but come on.
- PrimeMcFly 3y agoHow did they redefine free will?
- wmf 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_theorem
- PrimeMcFly 3y agoThat doesn't seem to be redefining anything.
- BlueTemplar 3y agoIt goes to the beginnings of Western science. The alchemist Cornelis Drebbel successfully harnessed what he considered to be the perpetual motion of the universe for his perpetual motion machine... https://antonhowes.substack.com/p/age-of-invention-why-wasnt-the-steam-cc8 https://antonhowes.substack.com/p/age-of-invention-why-wasnt... ... that now we know to have been changes in temperature and atmospheric pressure, both concepts which were very fuzzy at the time, especially the pressure. Sadly, his machine had made such an impression, that the legend of it then continued to plague patent applications for centuries !
- BlueTemplar 3y agoRemember how superconductivity is about the complete (?) removal of friction thanks to quantum behaviour ? Also this talk of quantum toys convinces me even more that the right framing is instead how our (subjective) information about a system can only decrease with time (or stay unchanging for exceptional systems such as these).
- rozal 3y agoSuperconductivity can be achieved at room temperature using pulses of electricity and vibration.
- fasyte 3y ago[dead]
- TheOtherHobbes 3y agoI was surprised superconductivity wasn't mentioned. The new part here isn't the "perpetual motion" it's the complexity of the pattern. I guess in some highly abstract sense it's like exciting a more complex resonance mode in a bounded system. The simplest mode gives you a simple output, more complex modes give you more complex outputs.
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]