5 ms·

>They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Micros

>They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. Sorry, but Google really isn't a saint regarding degraded experience. The shenanigans around UX for example using Google services in Firefox have a long, well documented tradition. They just aren't as overt and clumsy with it as MS.

mrpopo 3y ago
Apple blocking iPhone browsers without Webkit (excluding Chrome and Firefox). Android not exactly making it easy to change the default browser for average users either tbh Relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/1118/ https://xkcd.com/1118/
- dathinab 3y ago
  yes on phones this has tradition to a point it started to got legislation involved but on desktop legislation shut this down, or at least tried, and it wasn't a problem for years honestly we need a proper "fair platform" legislation, world wide and focus more on power abuse and free market damaging power dynamics instead of obsessing over the "mono" in monopoly (because with today markets you can have more power then a classical single market monopoly while not being a monopol or even duopoly in any of the many markets you cover, power you can even more efficiently abuse then a monopoly when adding new market to your portfolio...)
- refulgentis 3y ago
  XKCD isn’t relevant to the sentence before, as comic notes, it’s about Apple. the “Android makes you tap something to change your default browser!” was some FUD that either Brave/DDG stopped spreading because it was generating backlash. Much like the “you have to confirm you enable sideloading!” alert in Android, it’s not clear what people want otherwise, a confirmation isn’t the same thing as making it difficult. I wish these things would pass simply because it makes it harder to have the real conversations needed to get things back on track
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    > a confirmation isn’t the same thing as making it difficult The problem with sideloading on Android is that it won't accept upgrades for your applications. You will have to get them from the installer app. And then it will confirm before downloading each app. And then it will confirm before installing each app. And then it will confirm again because, well, I have no idea. One confirmation isn't the same as making it difficult. Piles and piles of them is.
    - SpaghettiCthulu 3y ago
      Not entirely true on the latest version of Android. I'm not sure what the pattern is, but for most of the apps I've installed via Droidify, I don't have to confirm anything when installing updates.
- dehrmann 3y ago
  My theory on this is it has something to do with battery life. I can't think of another reason they'd limit browser engines.
  - grishka 3y ago
    Apple's reasoning is that browser engines need JIT to run JS with acceptable performance, but if they were to give apps JIT capabilities, that would significantly open up the attack surface.
  - zrobotics 3y ago
    Apple has an ads unit, there have been multiple other times when they have shown that user privacy is a thing that really only applies to other companies.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    Don't know if serious or not, but I'll bite. Apple was in deep troubles when IE was all the rage, you needed IE to access your bank's site, your company's intranet, so many site that were strictly IE only. Microsoft gifting them an implementation of IE was a mild grace, but still wasn't enough. Not having a browser compatible with 99% of the web was an issue pushing people away from Macs. They learned their lesson, and used their advantage in the mobile market to make sure no other browser ever puts them in a similar position. Google has a slightly different issue, in that for instance a strongly privacy focus/ad blocking browser taking the android world by storm is nothing good for them.
    - dehrmann 3y ago
      Firefox and Chrome accounted for a third of browser marker share when the iPhone came out. It came out with no App Store, and there was no guarantee MS would develop IE for iOS.
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    > I can't think of another reason they'd limit browser engines. Apple doesn't trust third party developers when it comes to running code that Apple has not vetted in advance.
malermeister 3y ago
I use a Firefox addon that spoofs the user agent for Google-owned sites so it delivers the Chrome version of things. Works without any issues and it's a much nicer product experience.
- VHRanger 3y ago
  link?
- kivihiinlane 3y ago
  What is the name of this addon?
  - VHRanger 3y ago
    tagging myself in here as well
    - rocketbop 3y ago
      You can favourite HN comments if you just want to come back to them.
      - stronglikedan 3y ago
        To clarify, since it's not obvious in the UI, you have to click the timestamp of the comment, and then you can favorite it.
        rocketbop 3y ago
        Thanks, I should have mentioned that. A couple of features are hidden in the show comment view.
        JohnFen 3y ago
        Damn, I've been here for years and never knew that you could favorite things!
        3y ago
908B64B197 3y ago
For a while downloading a lot of freeware would result in installing Chrome and setting it up as the default browser on Windows. Visiting any Google property would result in nagging to download chrome. Firefox and (classic) Edge would just break for no reasons on Google pages (changing the user-agent fixed the issue).

mrpopo 3y ago

Apple blocking iPhone browsers without Webkit (excluding Chrome and Firefox). Android not exactly making it easy to change the default browser for average users either tbh Relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/1118/ https://xkcd.com/1118/

dathinab 3y ago
yes on phones this has tradition to a point it started to got legislation involved but on desktop legislation shut this down, or at least tried, and it wasn't a problem for years honestly we need a proper "fair platform" legislation, world wide and focus more on power abuse and free market damaging power dynamics instead of obsessing over the "mono" in monopoly (because with today markets you can have more power then a classical single market monopoly while not being a monopol or even duopoly in any of the many markets you cover, power you can even more efficiently abuse then a monopoly when adding new market to your portfolio...)
refulgentis 3y ago
XKCD isn’t relevant to the sentence before, as comic notes, it’s about Apple. the “Android makes you tap something to change your default browser!” was some FUD that either Brave/DDG stopped spreading because it was generating backlash. Much like the “you have to confirm you enable sideloading!” alert in Android, it’s not clear what people want otherwise, a confirmation isn’t the same thing as making it difficult. I wish these things would pass simply because it makes it harder to have the real conversations needed to get things back on track
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  > a confirmation isn’t the same thing as making it difficult The problem with sideloading on Android is that it won't accept upgrades for your applications. You will have to get them from the installer app. And then it will confirm before downloading each app. And then it will confirm before installing each app. And then it will confirm again because, well, I have no idea. One confirmation isn't the same as making it difficult. Piles and piles of them is.
  - SpaghettiCthulu 3y ago
    Not entirely true on the latest version of Android. I'm not sure what the pattern is, but for most of the apps I've installed via Droidify, I don't have to confirm anything when installing updates.
dehrmann 3y ago
My theory on this is it has something to do with battery life. I can't think of another reason they'd limit browser engines.
- grishka 3y ago
  Apple's reasoning is that browser engines need JIT to run JS with acceptable performance, but if they were to give apps JIT capabilities, that would significantly open up the attack surface.
- zrobotics 3y ago
  Apple has an ads unit, there have been multiple other times when they have shown that user privacy is a thing that really only applies to other companies.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  Don't know if serious or not, but I'll bite. Apple was in deep troubles when IE was all the rage, you needed IE to access your bank's site, your company's intranet, so many site that were strictly IE only. Microsoft gifting them an implementation of IE was a mild grace, but still wasn't enough. Not having a browser compatible with 99% of the web was an issue pushing people away from Macs. They learned their lesson, and used their advantage in the mobile market to make sure no other browser ever puts them in a similar position. Google has a slightly different issue, in that for instance a strongly privacy focus/ad blocking browser taking the android world by storm is nothing good for them.
  - dehrmann 3y ago
    Firefox and Chrome accounted for a third of browser marker share when the iPhone came out. It came out with no App Store, and there was no guarantee MS would develop IE for iOS.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > I can't think of another reason they'd limit browser engines. Apple doesn't trust third party developers when it comes to running code that Apple has not vetted in advance.

malermeister 3y ago

I use a Firefox addon that spoofs the user agent for Google-owned sites so it delivers the Chrome version of things. Works without any issues and it's a much nicer product experience.

VHRanger 3y ago
link?
kivihiinlane 3y ago
What is the name of this addon?
- VHRanger 3y ago
  tagging myself in here as well
  - rocketbop 3y ago
    You can favourite HN comments if you just want to come back to them.
    - stronglikedan 3y ago
      To clarify, since it's not obvious in the UI, you have to click the timestamp of the comment, and then you can favorite it.
      - rocketbop 3y ago
        Thanks, I should have mentioned that. A couple of features are hidden in the show comment view.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        Damn, I've been here for years and never knew that you could favorite things!
      - 3y ago

908B64B197 3y ago

For a while downloading a lot of freeware would result in installing Chrome and setting it up as the default browser on Windows. Visiting any Google property would result in nagging to download chrome. Firefox and (classic) Edge would just break for no reasons on Google pages (changing the user-agent fixed the issue).