6 ms·

This is an incredible piece. The fact that the 20% of the company laid off were all minority groups is absolutely insane. LinkedIn says they have at minimum 50

This is an incredible piece. The fact that the 20% of the company laid off were all minority groups is absolutely insane. LinkedIn says they have at minimum 50 employees, meaning at least 10 people were laid off. Here is their LinkedIn post (linked on their website), https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058845122393755648/ https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058845... " It is estimated that one in five transgender people will experience homelessness. Unfortunately, it's my turn. After six months of searching, I was not able to find a new role in time, and I have lost my home."

wiredone 3y ago
… but you have to ask - why can’t this person find a job? Surely not every employer is non-inclusive. There’s smells of a partial story all through this.
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  While it’s unrealistic to believe that every bad thing that happens to you is because of discrimination, being part of a commonly discriminated group has an effect of making everything harder. Lots of people struggle to find a job. Now imagine if on top of that, some additional percentage of jobs are off the table to begin with. In a way, this reminds me of climate change. You can’t usually point to any one event and definitively say “this was caused by discimination,” but you’re quite aware it’s happening overall.
  - Manuel_D 3y ago
    San Francisco and Seattle aren't exactly hotbeds of intolerance. The large-scale studies on discrimination in tech companies did find slight gender discrimination, in favor of women: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3672484 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3672484
    - Glawen 3y ago
      My company has a goal of 35% women in executive position. The thing is that we are working in the industry, you know, factories and machines. This environment does not attract women, we barely have women engineers. That means that any women in engineering willing to take responsibility is fast tracked to management. This was the same at my previous employers.
- throwaway202351 3y ago
  As another trans person that's been in a similar position before, it's really frustrating how many loops I've gone through where the moment I'd get to some part where it wasn't voice only anymore, you could just hear the tone shift and get rejected shortly after. Combine that with the current tech market being on a downswing and it's not unreasonable that this would take a while to find a new place.
  - begno 3y ago
    I've met more than one hiring manager who tacitly refuses to hire anyone who is transgendered. Of course this is only revealed in confidence, and they'll deny it if asked. The reason is typically one or more of: - they don't want the rest of the team to have to walk on eggshells regarding pronouns and so on, or - they don't want to have to deal with any fallout from female employees getting pissed about males using their bathroom, or - they've had a bad experience hiring a transgender previously (typically due to the previous two reasons) and don't want to repeat it with another. Kind of sucks for the transgendered applicants, but understandable I suppose, given the circumstances these days.
    - refulgentis 3y ago
      It's not understandable. Some things you don't let yourself do and speak up when other people do.
      - CoastalCoder 3y ago
        Perhaps parent and GP comments are using different definitions of "understandable".
        refulgentis 3y ago
        “It depends on what the meaning of is, is”
      - 0xcde4c3db 3y ago
        And frankly, my experience has been that people with such "concerns" tend to also have corresponding ones for other minorities.
- nicolas_t 3y ago
  Anecdotal story time, when I was a young student in France, I believed that discrimination was mostly a thing from the past, I believed that in 2000, being black wouldn't affect hiring decisions that much and wouldn't make it much harder to find a job. Then two very good friends of mine graduated, they were both black, they were both French citizens from the French islands, they both graduated as electronics engineers within the top 10% of their class, they were well-spoken, and pretty much serious model students. The average time to find a class for people who graduated in their major was less than 2 months. One of my friend found a job in 6 months, the other in 5 months. Both of them had a starting salary that was more than 40% lower than the average salary of the other students in my university graduating in the same major. That's when I discovered that discrimination still exists and that it has tremendous impact. So, it doesn't surprise me at all that being transgendered makes finding a job significantly harder.
  - mjbeswick 3y ago
    Many manager are reluctant of hiring members of certain minority groups, as they are afraid of the potential HR issues; as far too many people play the discrimination card when they are involved in any kind of conflict or face disciplinary action. Sometimes measure to prevent discrimination can do the opposite.
    - nicolas_t 3y ago
      That's entirely true and I imagine that this article will unfortunately convince some hiring managers that it's not worth hiring for diversity.
- codehitchhiker 3y ago
  A lot of whistleblowers can't seem to find work after they blow the whistle weird
- throwestfaraway 3y ago
  Probably because they sound absolutely insufferable to work with. Who demands extensive requirements docs in <100 person startups? Who organizes ERGs in that context? Who spends all their time obsessing over process, planning, and identity instead of actually building stuff? It's amazing they had a job this long.
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    According to the article she was actually moving up the ranks and getting promoted, so it sounds like the company did in fact think she was doing something right.
- mjbeswick 3y ago
  It's just as possible that potential employers were put off by this personal personality and the HR issues they may present
jimbob45 3y ago
[flagged]
- frob 3y ago
  It's not that 20% of those laid off were from minority groups. It's that 20% of the company was laid off and they're all from historically underrepresented groups in tech.
  - fafqg 3y ago
    Since when are trans underrepresented in tech? If anything they are overrepresented
    - faxma 3y ago
      Makes sense considering both the correlations between being an autistic spectrum male and adopting a sex-incongruent gender identity, and being an autistic spectrum male and working in tech.
- ketzu 3y ago
  My reading of that claim is 10 out of 10 people laid off were from marginalized groups. Not 20% of 10. > Approximately 20% of the company was laid off, and to the best of my knowledge 100% of them were members of historically marginalized groups. Women, people of color, queer folks, and multiple people on disability and even maternity leave were specifically and disproportionately targeted.
  - jlawson 3y ago
    Interesting quote. Statistically, if you add up all these 'historically marginalized groups', it seems like you end up with the overwhelming majority of the population. Women are a bit over half. Then add on all non-straight people, all non-white people, all people with some serious health (mental or otherwise) diagnosis. Globally this covers like 95% of the human population. Even in America these 'historically marginalized groups' are like 75-85% of the population. I suspect the complainant is casting a wide net when they try to define who counts as 'historically marginalized groups', to the point where this could happen by random chance. Though it's hard to know without knowing the full profiles of everyone at the company. Also we can note that these 'historically marginalized groups' tend to concentrate in certain types of jobs; if a company were to downsize their HR department for example, they'd be firing nearly all women even without targeting women, just as if they were to downsize programming they'd be firing nearly all men.
Manuel_D 3y ago
This is the relevant section: > Approximately 20% of the company was laid off, and to the best of my knowledge 100% of them were members of historically marginalized groups. Women, people of color, queer folks, and multiple people on disability and even maternity leave were specifically and disproportionately targeted. In the aftermath I could not find even one single person who did not belong to a protected class. So bear in mind that this is very expansive group of people. This is not referring to "minority groups" as the parent comment wrote (women are the majority of the population). The author did not provide the denominator - that is, how many people at the company fit this group of people she's referring to - so it's hard to discern any significant discrimination without that piece of information. San Francisco and Seattle (where Rune labs and the author are located, respectively) are very diverse places, so it's not inconceivable that most of the company is comprised of "minority groups". A quick glance at the company's page shows that these "minority groups" comprise about 2/3rds of its leadership [1]. Furthermore, I don't think the author understands the term "protected class" [2]. Race, age, religion, gender, and disability are all protected classes, workplace discrimination on the basis of these is illegal. Everyone belongs to several protected classes (age, race, and gender, at minimum), so I'm not sure what she means when she writes, "I could not find even one single person who did not belong to a protected class". 1. https://runelabs.io/about-us https://runelabs.io/about-us 2. https://www.archives.gov/eeo/terminology.html#:~:text=Protected%20Class%3A%20The%20groups%20protected,with%20physical%20or%20mental%20handicaps https://www.archives.gov/eeo/terminology.html#:~:text=Protec....

wiredone 3y ago

… but you have to ask - why can’t this person find a job? Surely not every employer is non-inclusive. There’s smells of a partial story all through this.

Waterluvian 3y ago
While it’s unrealistic to believe that every bad thing that happens to you is because of discrimination, being part of a commonly discriminated group has an effect of making everything harder. Lots of people struggle to find a job. Now imagine if on top of that, some additional percentage of jobs are off the table to begin with. In a way, this reminds me of climate change. You can’t usually point to any one event and definitively say “this was caused by discimination,” but you’re quite aware it’s happening overall.
- Manuel_D 3y ago
  San Francisco and Seattle aren't exactly hotbeds of intolerance. The large-scale studies on discrimination in tech companies did find slight gender discrimination, in favor of women: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3672484 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3672484
  - Glawen 3y ago
    My company has a goal of 35% women in executive position. The thing is that we are working in the industry, you know, factories and machines. This environment does not attract women, we barely have women engineers. That means that any women in engineering willing to take responsibility is fast tracked to management. This was the same at my previous employers.
throwaway202351 3y ago
As another trans person that's been in a similar position before, it's really frustrating how many loops I've gone through where the moment I'd get to some part where it wasn't voice only anymore, you could just hear the tone shift and get rejected shortly after. Combine that with the current tech market being on a downswing and it's not unreasonable that this would take a while to find a new place.
- begno 3y ago
  I've met more than one hiring manager who tacitly refuses to hire anyone who is transgendered. Of course this is only revealed in confidence, and they'll deny it if asked. The reason is typically one or more of: - they don't want the rest of the team to have to walk on eggshells regarding pronouns and so on, or - they don't want to have to deal with any fallout from female employees getting pissed about males using their bathroom, or - they've had a bad experience hiring a transgender previously (typically due to the previous two reasons) and don't want to repeat it with another. Kind of sucks for the transgendered applicants, but understandable I suppose, given the circumstances these days.
  - refulgentis 3y ago
    It's not understandable. Some things you don't let yourself do and speak up when other people do.
    - CoastalCoder 3y ago
      Perhaps parent and GP comments are using different definitions of "understandable".
      - refulgentis 3y ago
        “It depends on what the meaning of is, is”
    - 0xcde4c3db 3y ago
      And frankly, my experience has been that people with such "concerns" tend to also have corresponding ones for other minorities.
nicolas_t 3y ago
Anecdotal story time, when I was a young student in France, I believed that discrimination was mostly a thing from the past, I believed that in 2000, being black wouldn't affect hiring decisions that much and wouldn't make it much harder to find a job. Then two very good friends of mine graduated, they were both black, they were both French citizens from the French islands, they both graduated as electronics engineers within the top 10% of their class, they were well-spoken, and pretty much serious model students. The average time to find a class for people who graduated in their major was less than 2 months. One of my friend found a job in 6 months, the other in 5 months. Both of them had a starting salary that was more than 40% lower than the average salary of the other students in my university graduating in the same major. That's when I discovered that discrimination still exists and that it has tremendous impact. So, it doesn't surprise me at all that being transgendered makes finding a job significantly harder.
- mjbeswick 3y ago
  Many manager are reluctant of hiring members of certain minority groups, as they are afraid of the potential HR issues; as far too many people play the discrimination card when they are involved in any kind of conflict or face disciplinary action. Sometimes measure to prevent discrimination can do the opposite.
  - nicolas_t 3y ago
    That's entirely true and I imagine that this article will unfortunately convince some hiring managers that it's not worth hiring for diversity.
codehitchhiker 3y ago
A lot of whistleblowers can't seem to find work after they blow the whistle weird
throwestfaraway 3y ago
Probably because they sound absolutely insufferable to work with. Who demands extensive requirements docs in <100 person startups? Who organizes ERGs in that context? Who spends all their time obsessing over process, planning, and identity instead of actually building stuff? It's amazing they had a job this long.
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  According to the article she was actually moving up the ranks and getting promoted, so it sounds like the company did in fact think she was doing something right.
mjbeswick 3y ago
It's just as possible that potential employers were put off by this personal personality and the HR issues they may present

jimbob45 3y ago

[flagged]

frob 3y ago
It's not that 20% of those laid off were from minority groups. It's that 20% of the company was laid off and they're all from historically underrepresented groups in tech.
- fafqg 3y ago
  Since when are trans underrepresented in tech? If anything they are overrepresented
  - faxma 3y ago
    Makes sense considering both the correlations between being an autistic spectrum male and adopting a sex-incongruent gender identity, and being an autistic spectrum male and working in tech.
ketzu 3y ago
My reading of that claim is 10 out of 10 people laid off were from marginalized groups. Not 20% of 10. > Approximately 20% of the company was laid off, and to the best of my knowledge 100% of them were members of historically marginalized groups. Women, people of color, queer folks, and multiple people on disability and even maternity leave were specifically and disproportionately targeted.
- jlawson 3y ago
  Interesting quote. Statistically, if you add up all these 'historically marginalized groups', it seems like you end up with the overwhelming majority of the population. Women are a bit over half. Then add on all non-straight people, all non-white people, all people with some serious health (mental or otherwise) diagnosis. Globally this covers like 95% of the human population. Even in America these 'historically marginalized groups' are like 75-85% of the population. I suspect the complainant is casting a wide net when they try to define who counts as 'historically marginalized groups', to the point where this could happen by random chance. Though it's hard to know without knowing the full profiles of everyone at the company. Also we can note that these 'historically marginalized groups' tend to concentrate in certain types of jobs; if a company were to downsize their HR department for example, they'd be firing nearly all women even without targeting women, just as if they were to downsize programming they'd be firing nearly all men.

Manuel_D 3y ago

This is the relevant section: > Approximately 20% of the company was laid off, and to the best of my knowledge 100% of them were members of historically marginalized groups. Women, people of color, queer folks, and multiple people on disability and even maternity leave were specifically and disproportionately targeted. In the aftermath I could not find even one single person who did not belong to a protected class. So bear in mind that this is very expansive group of people. This is not referring to "minority groups" as the parent comment wrote (women are the majority of the population). The author did not provide the denominator - that is, how many people at the company fit this group of people she's referring to - so it's hard to discern any significant discrimination without that piece of information. San Francisco and Seattle (where Rune labs and the author are located, respectively) are very diverse places, so it's not inconceivable that most of the company is comprised of "minority groups". A quick glance at the company's page shows that these "minority groups" comprise about 2/3rds of its leadership [1]. Furthermore, I don't think the author understands the term "protected class" [2]. Race, age, religion, gender, and disability are all protected classes, workplace discrimination on the basis of these is illegal. Everyone belongs to several protected classes (age, race, and gender, at minimum), so I'm not sure what she means when she writes, "I could not find even one single person who did not belong to a protected class". 1. https://runelabs.io/about-us https://runelabs.io/about-us 2. https://www.archives.gov/eeo/terminology.html#:~:text=Protected%20Class%3A%20The%20groups%20protected,with%20physical%20or%20mental%20handicaps https://www.archives.gov/eeo/terminology.html#:~:text=Protec....