7 ms·

Another fair but PITA is the child penalty when it comes to traveling. Because the way schools are set up - everyone in a geographic area has to travel on spec

Another fair but PITA is the child penalty when it comes to traveling. Because the way schools are set up - everyone in a geographic area has to travel on specific weeks. So airlines jack up prices incredibly. Like - from some price that a family might be able to swing to almost medical emergency prices. I'll be sure to take advantage when the time comes. But if you want to know why on average US people are ignorant of the world vs other western countries - you have your answer.

koolba 3y ago
> everyone in a geographic area has to travel on specific weeks That sounds like supply and demand 101. The direct answer here is take your kids out of school whenever it’s cheapest and then have them hang out at home during the “official” vacation period.
- yonaguska 3y ago
  > take you kids out of school This is what I'll be doing. I'm fortunate enough to homeschool for the time being, and that's my number one goal now, ensuring enough financial stability that we can continue to do so.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    This is another symptom of how American society is falling apart and turning into a low-trust society with no real sense of community. Of course, for you personally, it's probably the right decision, despite the problems it causes with childrens' socialization, because of the huge problems in American public schools these days, but for a society, it's terrible. In a high-trust society, people send their kids to public school (which is free) for a high-quality education, and don't worry about things like school shootings. There's no way I'd ever raise a kid in the US.
- ghaff 3y ago
  >The direct answer here is take you kids out of school whenever it’s cheapest and then have them hang out at home during the “official” vacation period. That can be difficult to pull off, probably especially in public schools which probably have less flexibility to bend the rules. But, yeah, it doesn't sound like some great conspiracy. And unless you live near the Canadian or Mexican border, of course it's generally going to be more expensive to travel to another country compared to living in France.
  - sdwr 3y ago
    ?? Is it more difficult than just telling the teachers you're doing it? Give them a bit of notice, get the homework in advance, what are they going to say?
    - ejb999 3y ago
      exactly - did it all the time with my kids, we told the teachers ahead of time, the school didn't like it - we didn't care. Somehow our kids all survived, went on to good colleges and all graduated with great careers, even missing a few useless weeks of school.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    I grew up in the US in the 90s and 00s and I took a week off here and there during the school year with no issue. Less so in high school, but I do not recall anyone caring in elementary school. I remember other kids doing the same, and the teacher would just assign the classwork that was scheduled to be done during that week and you were expected to learn it while not in school.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      In the 60s/70s, my parents regularly took me out of grade school for family vacations but it was a private school and I was a very good student. I would guess that public schools were less amenable to bending the rules in general but I don't have direct experience.
  - 3y ago
- madcaptenor 3y ago
  You also have the child care problem - school, in addition to its educational function, is free child care. I'd like to get as much of that as I can, because I have a limited number of vacation days.
- mattgreenrocks 3y ago
  I was about to say, "school districts don't like that." But I'm not sure they can do much, really, if you dot your i's and cross your t's with advance notice, handling homework/missed class, and it's once a year at most. Ask around. It's not worth foregoing thousands of dollars potentially because you want to avoid a conflict that resides largely in your head.
  - koolba 3y ago
    All school districts will try to dissuade you from taking your kids out of school. It's like asking your doctor if you should eat a cheeseburger instead of a salad. He's not actually going to say no, but he's not going to say yes either. Most States have an specific number of days that you must attend to advance to the next grade. You may have to factor in whether they count sick days, religious holidays, or other allowed days off (e.g. take your daughter to work day). As long as you're under that cap they won't do anything. If you are under that cap, they probably won't do anything anyway. And if missing a few days of school is the tipping point in whether your little Jimmy or Julie has a decent education, you've got much bigger problems.
- eatsyourtacos 3y ago
  >That sounds like supply and demand 101. I really, really hate comments like this. It gives an excuse for pure greed and you basically throw your arms up and say "well, it's supply and demand that's just how it works!" There are only so many flights that can fit so many people, right? So.. instead of keeping the prices reasonable (i.e., basically the same price as other times +/- a few weeks out).. they jack up the prices because they know people want/need to fly then. So they sell out their flights at the price of their choosing- and only people who can afford (or are desperate to go over their budget) get to take flights. 'Supply and demand' isn't some mathematical law of nature that must be obeyed.. it is literally based on greed and charging as much as you can for something. If everyone had similar wealth amounts, then perhaps one can argue that's "fair enough" because it inconveniences people to a similar degree. But since we have such vast wealth inequality, "supply and demand" screws 90% of the population yet again.
  - koolba 3y ago
    In your hypothetical model where the prices stay flat during peak times, who gets to fly? Say you have 10x more demand than capacity for that one week. Do we pick at random? First to book? The techie who builds an automated platform to snipe the tickets? I’d argue that insisting on the low demand price during periods of high demand is pure greed on the part of the consumer. It’s like demanding a ribeye for the price of dog food grade ground scraps.
gtop3 3y ago
I'm sure other western countries have costs increase during peak travel seasons and their children have limited time off school. The reason people in the US are less traveled is because you essentially have to cross an ocean to go anywhere. Some people like to go to Canada, but that is pretty similar to the US. Most of the people that I know that go to Mexico stay at resorts for safety concerns. Edit: I would assume the median number of times an individual has crossed an ocean is still 0. Even for citizens of rich countries. I don't think this number is going to change with the current technology branch being developed by Boeing and Airbus. Maybe in a century Hyper loop, Electric Airplanes, Space Elevators, or trains on floating bridges will have advanced enough to change this to 1 or 2. Maybe a seemingly low-tech solution like Zeplins or Boats can be done fast enough, cheap enough and safe enough for broad appeal.
- notahacker 3y ago
  > The reason people in the US are less traveled is because you essentially have to cross an ocean to go anywhere. Australians manage to travel more than average despite being an island surrounded by ocean. The need to cross an ocean discourages travel much more in a culture which thinks "two weeks paid time off, don't even think of taking them both at the same time" is an adequate amount of vacation allowance and thinks extended mid/pre-career breaks for international travel are a weird anomaly rather than the norm.
  - tallowen 3y ago
    I think another huge difference here is that the Australian continent has ~25 million people living on it whereas United States + Mexico + Canada is ~500 million. There are far more communities and cultures to explore without the need for overseas travel. As an American who has spent 6 years living abroad, I think foreigners vastly underestimate the size and diversity of the United States and North American how many meaningful travel experiences can be had despite the fact that there are relatively few national governments
    - Freedom2 3y ago
kspacewalk2 3y ago
Potentially controversial view: until kids get to high school, and if they're good students anyway, just have them skip school for a week and go on a trip. They're likely not missing anything important in one week of schooling. For example, I'm definitely not figuring my son's grade 2 timelines into my travel plans. He loves school and everything, but he can skip it for a week somewhere if that literally saves the family thousands.
- sdwr 3y ago
  Jesus yes.
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  The trouble with this approach is that it only works because basically nobody does it, so there'll be no kids around his age there to play with. That might be an acceptable tradeoff for you, but it's worth knowing about beforehand.
  - hombre_fatal 3y ago
    I don't get the scenario you're imagining. Each friend goes away for a week 1-2 times per school year and that's somehow catastrophic?
    - incone123 3y ago
      I take it to mean no other children at the holiday destination to play with
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - chimeracoder 3y ago
      > I don't get the scenario you're imagining. Each friend goes away for a week 1-2 times per school year and that's somehow catastrophic? No, they're saying that there's nobody else for them to play with while on vacation. Some people, particularly with younger kids, plan vacations that have some sort of child care component to them, which gives the kid opportunity to socialize with other kids their own age (and also gives the parent some free time to do things that they can't do while taking care of their kids). Some hotels offer this as part of the package, as do cruise ships, etc.
meh8881 3y ago
Let’s take a moment to appreciate the use of emergency medical expenses as something that is meant to be shown as unaffordable
- ghaff 3y ago
  I would take that to mean just about any last minute urgent need ticket. Airlines used to offer discounts for actual (as opposed to business) emergencies but I think that's mostly gone by the wayside.
lnsru 3y ago
The prices during German school holiday suddenly increase to absurd levels. Flights get 2-3x more expensive, rental cars and accommodation at least two times more. Workarounds are to go to some awkward countries or just pick less popular places to get there by car.
mym1990 3y ago
Is the price not just being adjusted for increased demand during vacation weeks?
carlosjobim 3y ago
This has always astounded me. How can somebody have such an unimportant job that their child's school holidays set the schedule? Like - you are a grown man or woman - how can junior "learning" some nonsense in class be more important than what you are doing with your life? Who are these people?
Ekaros 3y ago
You could also think about this in other way. The school holidays and public holidays are the normal price. And you get discount for traveling at other times.

koolba 3y ago

> everyone in a geographic area has to travel on specific weeks That sounds like supply and demand 101. The direct answer here is take your kids out of school whenever it’s cheapest and then have them hang out at home during the “official” vacation period.

yonaguska 3y ago
> take you kids out of school This is what I'll be doing. I'm fortunate enough to homeschool for the time being, and that's my number one goal now, ensuring enough financial stability that we can continue to do so.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  This is another symptom of how American society is falling apart and turning into a low-trust society with no real sense of community. Of course, for you personally, it's probably the right decision, despite the problems it causes with childrens' socialization, because of the huge problems in American public schools these days, but for a society, it's terrible. In a high-trust society, people send their kids to public school (which is free) for a high-quality education, and don't worry about things like school shootings. There's no way I'd ever raise a kid in the US.
ghaff 3y ago
>The direct answer here is take you kids out of school whenever it’s cheapest and then have them hang out at home during the “official” vacation period. That can be difficult to pull off, probably especially in public schools which probably have less flexibility to bend the rules. But, yeah, it doesn't sound like some great conspiracy. And unless you live near the Canadian or Mexican border, of course it's generally going to be more expensive to travel to another country compared to living in France.
- sdwr 3y ago
  ?? Is it more difficult than just telling the teachers you're doing it? Give them a bit of notice, get the homework in advance, what are they going to say?
  - ejb999 3y ago
    exactly - did it all the time with my kids, we told the teachers ahead of time, the school didn't like it - we didn't care. Somehow our kids all survived, went on to good colleges and all graduated with great careers, even missing a few useless weeks of school.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  I grew up in the US in the 90s and 00s and I took a week off here and there during the school year with no issue. Less so in high school, but I do not recall anyone caring in elementary school. I remember other kids doing the same, and the teacher would just assign the classwork that was scheduled to be done during that week and you were expected to learn it while not in school.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    In the 60s/70s, my parents regularly took me out of grade school for family vacations but it was a private school and I was a very good student. I would guess that public schools were less amenable to bending the rules in general but I don't have direct experience.
- 3y ago
madcaptenor 3y ago
You also have the child care problem - school, in addition to its educational function, is free child care. I'd like to get as much of that as I can, because I have a limited number of vacation days.
mattgreenrocks 3y ago
I was about to say, "school districts don't like that." But I'm not sure they can do much, really, if you dot your i's and cross your t's with advance notice, handling homework/missed class, and it's once a year at most. Ask around. It's not worth foregoing thousands of dollars potentially because you want to avoid a conflict that resides largely in your head.
- koolba 3y ago
  All school districts will try to dissuade you from taking your kids out of school. It's like asking your doctor if you should eat a cheeseburger instead of a salad. He's not actually going to say no, but he's not going to say yes either. Most States have an specific number of days that you must attend to advance to the next grade. You may have to factor in whether they count sick days, religious holidays, or other allowed days off (e.g. take your daughter to work day). As long as you're under that cap they won't do anything. If you are under that cap, they probably won't do anything anyway. And if missing a few days of school is the tipping point in whether your little Jimmy or Julie has a decent education, you've got much bigger problems.
eatsyourtacos 3y ago
>That sounds like supply and demand 101. I really, really hate comments like this. It gives an excuse for pure greed and you basically throw your arms up and say "well, it's supply and demand that's just how it works!" There are only so many flights that can fit so many people, right? So.. instead of keeping the prices reasonable (i.e., basically the same price as other times +/- a few weeks out).. they jack up the prices because they know people want/need to fly then. So they sell out their flights at the price of their choosing- and only people who can afford (or are desperate to go over their budget) get to take flights. 'Supply and demand' isn't some mathematical law of nature that must be obeyed.. it is literally based on greed and charging as much as you can for something. If everyone had similar wealth amounts, then perhaps one can argue that's "fair enough" because it inconveniences people to a similar degree. But since we have such vast wealth inequality, "supply and demand" screws 90% of the population yet again.
- koolba 3y ago
  In your hypothetical model where the prices stay flat during peak times, who gets to fly? Say you have 10x more demand than capacity for that one week. Do we pick at random? First to book? The techie who builds an automated platform to snipe the tickets? I’d argue that insisting on the low demand price during periods of high demand is pure greed on the part of the consumer. It’s like demanding a ribeye for the price of dog food grade ground scraps.

gtop3 3y ago

I'm sure other western countries have costs increase during peak travel seasons and their children have limited time off school. The reason people in the US are less traveled is because you essentially have to cross an ocean to go anywhere. Some people like to go to Canada, but that is pretty similar to the US. Most of the people that I know that go to Mexico stay at resorts for safety concerns. Edit: I would assume the median number of times an individual has crossed an ocean is still 0. Even for citizens of rich countries. I don't think this number is going to change with the current technology branch being developed by Boeing and Airbus. Maybe in a century Hyper loop, Electric Airplanes, Space Elevators, or trains on floating bridges will have advanced enough to change this to 1 or 2. Maybe a seemingly low-tech solution like Zeplins or Boats can be done fast enough, cheap enough and safe enough for broad appeal.

notahacker 3y ago
> The reason people in the US are less traveled is because you essentially have to cross an ocean to go anywhere. Australians manage to travel more than average despite being an island surrounded by ocean. The need to cross an ocean discourages travel much more in a culture which thinks "two weeks paid time off, don't even think of taking them both at the same time" is an adequate amount of vacation allowance and thinks extended mid/pre-career breaks for international travel are a weird anomaly rather than the norm.
- tallowen 3y ago
  I think another huge difference here is that the Australian continent has ~25 million people living on it whereas United States + Mexico + Canada is ~500 million. There are far more communities and cultures to explore without the need for overseas travel. As an American who has spent 6 years living abroad, I think foreigners vastly underestimate the size and diversity of the United States and North American how many meaningful travel experiences can be had despite the fact that there are relatively few national governments
  - Freedom2 3y ago

kspacewalk2 3y ago

Potentially controversial view: until kids get to high school, and if they're good students anyway, just have them skip school for a week and go on a trip. They're likely not missing anything important in one week of schooling. For example, I'm definitely not figuring my son's grade 2 timelines into my travel plans. He loves school and everything, but he can skip it for a week somewhere if that literally saves the family thousands.

sdwr 3y ago
Jesus yes.
disgruntledphd2 3y ago
The trouble with this approach is that it only works because basically nobody does it, so there'll be no kids around his age there to play with. That might be an acceptable tradeoff for you, but it's worth knowing about beforehand.
- hombre_fatal 3y ago
  I don't get the scenario you're imagining. Each friend goes away for a week 1-2 times per school year and that's somehow catastrophic?
  - incone123 3y ago
    I take it to mean no other children at the holiday destination to play with
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - chimeracoder 3y ago
    > I don't get the scenario you're imagining. Each friend goes away for a week 1-2 times per school year and that's somehow catastrophic? No, they're saying that there's nobody else for them to play with while on vacation. Some people, particularly with younger kids, plan vacations that have some sort of child care component to them, which gives the kid opportunity to socialize with other kids their own age (and also gives the parent some free time to do things that they can't do while taking care of their kids). Some hotels offer this as part of the package, as do cruise ships, etc.

meh8881 3y ago

Let’s take a moment to appreciate the use of emergency medical expenses as something that is meant to be shown as unaffordable

ghaff 3y ago
I would take that to mean just about any last minute urgent need ticket. Airlines used to offer discounts for actual (as opposed to business) emergencies but I think that's mostly gone by the wayside.

lnsru 3y ago

The prices during German school holiday suddenly increase to absurd levels. Flights get 2-3x more expensive, rental cars and accommodation at least two times more. Workarounds are to go to some awkward countries or just pick less popular places to get there by car.

mym1990 3y ago

Is the price not just being adjusted for increased demand during vacation weeks?

carlosjobim 3y ago

This has always astounded me. How can somebody have such an unimportant job that their child's school holidays set the schedule? Like - you are a grown man or woman - how can junior "learning" some nonsense in class be more important than what you are doing with your life? Who are these people?

Ekaros 3y ago

You could also think about this in other way. The school holidays and public holidays are the normal price. And you get discount for traveling at other times.