5 ms·

I suspect you're conflating resistance cooktops (the kind with coils that heat up) and induction cooktops (which use EM fields to transfer energy directly into

I suspect you're conflating resistance cooktops (the kind with coils that heat up) and induction cooktops (which use EM fields to transfer energy directly into the pan). Resistance cooktops are slow and weak, but induction cooktops are just plain better than gas (faster to heat across the entire temperature range, better temperature control) in pretty much every case except when needing a pan that doesn't fit the induction plate (like a round-bottom wok).

rayiner 4y ago
Yeah, and if you’re talking about poor people, what electric stove will their apartment have, resistance or induction? And will they have induction safe cookware? Banning gas stoves would be a huge blow to all the immigrants who rely on cooking techniques (like woks) that don’t work well on resistance coils, and require expensive special equipment to work on induction.
- zarzavat 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Is the racism unintentional? Asians always seem to be the target of western moral panics about the environment.
- tptacek 4y ago
  People in China routinely use woks on electric stoves; they're just as common in China as they are here. There's a lot of mythology about woks and wok hei, most of which is based on people confusing restaurant cooking techniques with home cooking. This issue isn't racially coded.
  - Freedom2 4y ago
    This is my experience as well. I've spoken to Chinese co-workers who cook a lot of traditional food at home, and they have zero issues with electric stoves (induction or no) for cooking with a wok. As for those who claim that gas stoves are needed for wok cooking w/ specific techniques, most people who I've actually asked about what they cook on the wok is basically "fried rice", or even worse, they don't actually have a wok at all, and are using the issue as a strawman to complain about government overreach.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      For what it's worth: I have a fussy gas range and I'd be peeved to have to give it up, and I don't have an opinion about whether it's good or bad to require new construction to use induction. But the racial angle on this is risible. It's evidence of bad faith argument.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        [flagged]
        rafram 4y ago
        > What’s galling about this is that, in NYC, which is driving this madness, white people mostly don’t even cook at home. Citation for this?
        rayiner 4y ago
        [flagged]
        tptacek 4y ago
        This is a restaurant. We are talking about homes. You know who else doesn't cook at home? Large chunks of urban Asia.
  - schrectacular 4y ago
    I lived in China for a decade and never once saw an electric stove.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      I've lived in Oak Park, IL for over a decade, shopping for houses several times, and have never seen an electric stove. What's your point? What's clearly the case is that homes in China do not generally have the ultra-powered gas wok burners that restaurants do, which is what people are talking about when they talk about what's distinctive about cooking on a wok.
      - fsckboy 4y ago
        woks are round (hemispherical) on the bottom, gas is better for heating that shape
        rayiner 4y ago
        [flagged]
        tptacek 4y ago
        Not even that is true! This seems like another instance of people deriving every facet of their arguments from faulty first principles. There are bowl woks and flat-bottomed woks. We're not going to get anywhere discussing this issue if we can't even agree what a wok is.
        fsckboy 4y ago
        [flagged]
      - schrectacular 4y ago
        My point was that in my experience they are far less common in China than in the US, as you were claiming. I guess one of us could go look up stats bit given the cost of the item and the relative affluence of the countries I seriously doubt they are close. What was your point in bringing up that they were similarly ubiquitous in both places?
  - usrusr 4y ago
    It's a recurring pattern: people not being able to tell "like in the country I/my ancestors came from" apart from "like in the decade/century I/my ancestors left the old country". In the emigrant's mind, the old country is forever locked in the old times. Can't really blame them for it, it's a natural mistake to make, but a mistake nonetheless.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  > And will they have induction safe cookware? Cant you just put a steel plate under any pan, and then it’s induction compatible? Ideally you’d have compatible pans, but you don’t have to.
  - cmclaughlin 4y ago
    Yes it’s possible to use a transfer plate to adapt cookware that’s not induction compatible, but it’s very inefficient. One of the benefits I appreciate of induction cooking is not heating up my house while cooking - a transfer plate would negate that. I understand not everyone wants to buy or can afford new cookware, but cast iron pans are very cheap. Also see brands such as t-fal that make affordable non-stick aluminum cookware with a small steel bottom to make them induction compatible.
  - lobocinza 4y ago
    Not all kinds of steel have strong magnetic properties. I had to buy a new pan when I moved to induction because my steel pan didn't work at all.
- qwytw 4y ago
  > what electric stove will their apartment have, resistance or induction I'd assume nobody would install a resistance stove in a new apartment (since this only applies to those)
  - bretticus 4y ago
    They certainly won’t install an expensive induction stove in housing for poor people
    - doikor 4y ago
      Induction cooktops are not expensive anymore. This would have been an argument 10 or 15 years ago but not today. The price difference between a resistive 4 element resistive and a inductive cooktop is like 20€ maybe 30€ tops. So a cheap one will cost you between 200€ to 250€ (maybe the pricing in US is totally different but that is what you pay for the cheap stuff here in Finland)
      - geoduck14 4y ago
        I live in America. Builders will definitely cut corners to save $20. Hands down. Even brand new houses that sell for $500k will have "builder quality paint" that needs to be repainted in 5-7 years because it is cheap. If they cut corners on paint, they will cut corners on your stove.
        labawi 4y ago
        Don't have experience, but I'd guess a buyer/renter won't see a difference between grades of paint quality, but a resistive vs. induction cooktop will be very noticeable and may raise the value far beyond the price difference.
    - DocTomoe 4y ago
      It is arguments like these that make me happy I live in a country where you rent a flat and bring your own kitchen (and appliances).
- Aeolun 4y ago
  Induction these days is almost as cheap as gas, not sure if that makes a difference any more. I still like looking on gas a lot better.
- blevin 4y ago
  We got a $75 portable induction unit and it’s all I ever use. Our wok works great on it, as do all our other pans except 1. Using the gas cooktop now feels like cooking with a Bic lighter. Admittedly it is not a high end expensive one.
otterley 4y ago
Induction cooktops are like 3-5x the cost of resistive ones, and so very few homes for rent -even ones with electric cooktops - have them.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Are they? New Zealand is ludicrous marked up in terms of consumer goods, and I’ve just checked pricing. The cheapest is resistive electric. Then fractionally more is gas. Induction costs approximately double for 4 hobs (for 2 hobs it’s about 50% more than resistive). If you count installation, both electric options are going to be less expensive than gas. If the big cable needs running for induction, the cost might be similar to gas. Not factored in, cleaning. My god is induction nice to maintain.
  - wepple 4y ago
    Gas is rare and expensive in NZ, I knew very few people who had it. In NYC every house does. My clothes dryer runs off gas. It’s dirt cheap.
    - teruakohatu 4y ago
      Gas cooktops were very popular and are still common in New Zealand. It used to be legal (within building code) to run a small 9kg gas bottle (BBQ size) under your cooktop in a kitchen cupboard, so very cheap to install. Resistive cooktops were and are pretty aweful. Gas indoors is now considered a health hazard even with range hood, and while you can still buy gas cooktops, I haven't seen a new build with gas in a long time.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  I'm actually so confused about this. When I was in college, I bought a portable induction cooker off Amazon for $60. It was the best. I could boil a large pot of water in about the same time as the gas stove I had at home. (I never timed it, but it felt basically the same.) I could have bought four of those induction cookers for less than $250. If I ever built a house (I currently rent an apartment and am stuck with gas), I would at least be tempted to literally do that, instead of spending the money on a "real" cooking range. Why are full ranges so expensive?
eulgro 4y ago
> Resistance cooktops are slow and weak Resistive is just fine. No way I'm throwing out my 20 years old stove to save 2 minutes boiling water. Once the coil is red hot there's virtually no time difference with induction.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  I’d challenge anything to a race with a decent induction cooktop. I doubt gas is quicker, it’s silly fast to boil water. That said, upgrading for this reason would be very silly.
- dan-robertson 4y ago
  I think the reason people usually don’t like resistive cooktops is that they change temperature slowly so it is hard to adjust things to the right temperature.
  - YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
    Also they're capable of melting dark coloured soft plastic with radiant heat even when they've been switched off.
  - cmclaughlin 4y ago
    They also transfer heat to the house, whereas induction does not. Huge benefit in hotter climates
- vel0city 4y ago
  > No way I'm throwing out my 20 years old stove to save 2 minutes boiling water A normal electric stove isn't even going to be two minutes slower to boil. Depending on the stoves in question, the resistive stove might even be faster to a boil than the gas stove, even if the gas stove is rated for more BTUs.
AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
And if the government mandates electric stoves, which of those (restive or inductive) do you think the landlords of cheaper apartments are going to pick?
- freetime2 4y ago
  Anecdotal, but in my cheap apartment (like $300/mo) there is an induction stove. This is not in New York, of course, but still it couldn’t have been that expensive to install.
zajio1am 4y ago
> induction cooktops are just plain better than gas I generally prefer induction to gas, but there is one disadvantage - uneven heating of large thin pans. On induction, a part of pan directly above coils can be > 50 degC hotter than its border. This can be mitigated by using pans with thick bottom with good heat conductivity, but then you get higher thermal inertia.
- op00to 4y ago
  Gas heats large thin pans unevenly too.
swearwolf 4y ago
Resistance cooktops are fine too, you just have to learn to adjust to them. I’ve had one in all but one home I’ve ever lived in, and it’s second nature at this point. Every time I try to cook on a gas stove I burn whatever I’m making until I remember how to use them.

rayiner 4y ago

Yeah, and if you’re talking about poor people, what electric stove will their apartment have, resistance or induction? And will they have induction safe cookware? Banning gas stoves would be a huge blow to all the immigrants who rely on cooking techniques (like woks) that don’t work well on resistance coils, and require expensive special equipment to work on induction.

zarzavat 4y ago
[flagged]
- rayiner 4y ago
  Is the racism unintentional? Asians always seem to be the target of western moral panics about the environment.
tptacek 4y ago
People in China routinely use woks on electric stoves; they're just as common in China as they are here. There's a lot of mythology about woks and wok hei, most of which is based on people confusing restaurant cooking techniques with home cooking. This issue isn't racially coded.
- Freedom2 4y ago
  This is my experience as well. I've spoken to Chinese co-workers who cook a lot of traditional food at home, and they have zero issues with electric stoves (induction or no) for cooking with a wok. As for those who claim that gas stoves are needed for wok cooking w/ specific techniques, most people who I've actually asked about what they cook on the wok is basically "fried rice", or even worse, they don't actually have a wok at all, and are using the issue as a strawman to complain about government overreach.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    For what it's worth: I have a fussy gas range and I'd be peeved to have to give it up, and I don't have an opinion about whether it's good or bad to require new construction to use induction. But the racial angle on this is risible. It's evidence of bad faith argument.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - rafram 4y ago
        > What’s galling about this is that, in NYC, which is driving this madness, white people mostly don’t even cook at home. Citation for this?
        rayiner 4y ago
        [flagged]
      - tptacek 4y ago
        This is a restaurant. We are talking about homes. You know who else doesn't cook at home? Large chunks of urban Asia.
- schrectacular 4y ago
  I lived in China for a decade and never once saw an electric stove.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    I've lived in Oak Park, IL for over a decade, shopping for houses several times, and have never seen an electric stove. What's your point? What's clearly the case is that homes in China do not generally have the ultra-powered gas wok burners that restaurants do, which is what people are talking about when they talk about what's distinctive about cooking on a wok.
    - fsckboy 4y ago
      woks are round (hemispherical) on the bottom, gas is better for heating that shape
      - rayiner 4y ago
        [flagged]
      - tptacek 4y ago
        Not even that is true! This seems like another instance of people deriving every facet of their arguments from faulty first principles. There are bowl woks and flat-bottomed woks. We're not going to get anywhere discussing this issue if we can't even agree what a wok is.
        fsckboy 4y ago
        [flagged]
    - schrectacular 4y ago
      My point was that in my experience they are far less common in China than in the US, as you were claiming. I guess one of us could go look up stats bit given the cost of the item and the relative affluence of the countries I seriously doubt they are close. What was your point in bringing up that they were similarly ubiquitous in both places?
- usrusr 4y ago
  It's a recurring pattern: people not being able to tell "like in the country I/my ancestors came from" apart from "like in the decade/century I/my ancestors left the old country". In the emigrant's mind, the old country is forever locked in the old times. Can't really blame them for it, it's a natural mistake to make, but a mistake nonetheless.
lostlogin 4y ago
> And will they have induction safe cookware? Cant you just put a steel plate under any pan, and then it’s induction compatible? Ideally you’d have compatible pans, but you don’t have to.
- cmclaughlin 4y ago
  Yes it’s possible to use a transfer plate to adapt cookware that’s not induction compatible, but it’s very inefficient. One of the benefits I appreciate of induction cooking is not heating up my house while cooking - a transfer plate would negate that. I understand not everyone wants to buy or can afford new cookware, but cast iron pans are very cheap. Also see brands such as t-fal that make affordable non-stick aluminum cookware with a small steel bottom to make them induction compatible.
- lobocinza 4y ago
  Not all kinds of steel have strong magnetic properties. I had to buy a new pan when I moved to induction because my steel pan didn't work at all.
qwytw 4y ago
> what electric stove will their apartment have, resistance or induction I'd assume nobody would install a resistance stove in a new apartment (since this only applies to those)
- bretticus 4y ago
  They certainly won’t install an expensive induction stove in housing for poor people
  - doikor 4y ago
    Induction cooktops are not expensive anymore. This would have been an argument 10 or 15 years ago but not today. The price difference between a resistive 4 element resistive and a inductive cooktop is like 20€ maybe 30€ tops. So a cheap one will cost you between 200€ to 250€ (maybe the pricing in US is totally different but that is what you pay for the cheap stuff here in Finland)
    - geoduck14 4y ago
      I live in America. Builders will definitely cut corners to save $20. Hands down. Even brand new houses that sell for $500k will have "builder quality paint" that needs to be repainted in 5-7 years because it is cheap. If they cut corners on paint, they will cut corners on your stove.
      - labawi 4y ago
        Don't have experience, but I'd guess a buyer/renter won't see a difference between grades of paint quality, but a resistive vs. induction cooktop will be very noticeable and may raise the value far beyond the price difference.
  - DocTomoe 4y ago
    It is arguments like these that make me happy I live in a country where you rent a flat and bring your own kitchen (and appliances).
Aeolun 4y ago
Induction these days is almost as cheap as gas, not sure if that makes a difference any more. I still like looking on gas a lot better.
blevin 4y ago
We got a $75 portable induction unit and it’s all I ever use. Our wok works great on it, as do all our other pans except 1. Using the gas cooktop now feels like cooking with a Bic lighter. Admittedly it is not a high end expensive one.

otterley 4y ago

Induction cooktops are like 3-5x the cost of resistive ones, and so very few homes for rent -even ones with electric cooktops - have them.

lostlogin 4y ago
Are they? New Zealand is ludicrous marked up in terms of consumer goods, and I’ve just checked pricing. The cheapest is resistive electric. Then fractionally more is gas. Induction costs approximately double for 4 hobs (for 2 hobs it’s about 50% more than resistive). If you count installation, both electric options are going to be less expensive than gas. If the big cable needs running for induction, the cost might be similar to gas. Not factored in, cleaning. My god is induction nice to maintain.
- wepple 4y ago
  Gas is rare and expensive in NZ, I knew very few people who had it. In NYC every house does. My clothes dryer runs off gas. It’s dirt cheap.
  - teruakohatu 4y ago
    Gas cooktops were very popular and are still common in New Zealand. It used to be legal (within building code) to run a small 9kg gas bottle (BBQ size) under your cooktop in a kitchen cupboard, so very cheap to install. Resistive cooktops were and are pretty aweful. Gas indoors is now considered a health hazard even with range hood, and while you can still buy gas cooktops, I haven't seen a new build with gas in a long time.
Wowfunhappy 4y ago
I'm actually so confused about this. When I was in college, I bought a portable induction cooker off Amazon for $60. It was the best. I could boil a large pot of water in about the same time as the gas stove I had at home. (I never timed it, but it felt basically the same.) I could have bought four of those induction cookers for less than $250. If I ever built a house (I currently rent an apartment and am stuck with gas), I would at least be tempted to literally do that, instead of spending the money on a "real" cooking range. Why are full ranges so expensive?

eulgro 4y ago

> Resistance cooktops are slow and weak Resistive is just fine. No way I'm throwing out my 20 years old stove to save 2 minutes boiling water. Once the coil is red hot there's virtually no time difference with induction.

lostlogin 4y ago
I’d challenge anything to a race with a decent induction cooktop. I doubt gas is quicker, it’s silly fast to boil water. That said, upgrading for this reason would be very silly.
dan-robertson 4y ago
I think the reason people usually don’t like resistive cooktops is that they change temperature slowly so it is hard to adjust things to the right temperature.
- YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
  Also they're capable of melting dark coloured soft plastic with radiant heat even when they've been switched off.
- cmclaughlin 4y ago
  They also transfer heat to the house, whereas induction does not. Huge benefit in hotter climates
vel0city 4y ago
> No way I'm throwing out my 20 years old stove to save 2 minutes boiling water A normal electric stove isn't even going to be two minutes slower to boil. Depending on the stoves in question, the resistive stove might even be faster to a boil than the gas stove, even if the gas stove is rated for more BTUs.

AdamJacobMuller 4y ago

And if the government mandates electric stoves, which of those (restive or inductive) do you think the landlords of cheaper apartments are going to pick?

freetime2 4y ago
Anecdotal, but in my cheap apartment (like $300/mo) there is an induction stove. This is not in New York, of course, but still it couldn’t have been that expensive to install.

zajio1am 4y ago

> induction cooktops are just plain better than gas I generally prefer induction to gas, but there is one disadvantage - uneven heating of large thin pans. On induction, a part of pan directly above coils can be > 50 degC hotter than its border. This can be mitigated by using pans with thick bottom with good heat conductivity, but then you get higher thermal inertia.

op00to 4y ago
Gas heats large thin pans unevenly too.

swearwolf 4y ago

Resistance cooktops are fine too, you just have to learn to adjust to them. I’ve had one in all but one home I’ve ever lived in, and it’s second nature at this point. Every time I try to cook on a gas stove I burn whatever I’m making until I remember how to use them.