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For context, here's the text of the audio of the guy introducing her: "So Rebecca Lovell is the chief business officer of Geekwire, and I got to know– you can

For context, here's the text of the audio of the guy introducing her: "So Rebecca Lovell is the chief business officer of Geekwire, and I got to know– you can read the bio– what's written, but just for some personal color: So, Rebecca took over as executive director of the Northwest Entrepreneur network while I was on the board there and just blew us all away with her expertise, her knowledge, her connections, and her charm. And when we were putting together this program, we were looking for a real dynamite moderator who really knew the subject area, might know some of the potential panelists, and who could really add something– some substance to the program. Rebecca's one of the smartest ladies ..."

bobbles 15y ago
It would be interesting to get Rebeccas thoughts on the introduction.. it sounds strange reading it, but I could easily expect something like that from someone who was a close personal friend of the couple.
- saalweachter 15y ago
  There's a little bit of selection bias: I wager that if you asked the women in a Mad Men-style secretarial pool if they minded having their bottoms patted and their appearances complemented, a majority of them would say 'no', because women who minded (and had any other employment options) would have long since left the secretary pool for greener pastures with less bottom-patting (or have never gotten such a job to begin with). The sort of people who can make it in the tech world are smart, motivated, powerful people. If they find the tech world uninviting, they have plenty of options elsewhere. So it's perfectly possible that you could survey a hundred women in tech and find that all but a handful don't notice or don't mind their peers' attitudes towards women, but that if you were to survey a hundred women who could be in tech, 95% of them would find the behavior unacceptable.
  - mechanical_fish 15y ago
    all but a handful don't notice or don't mind their peers' attitudes towards women You left out an important subset, here: Those who notice, and mind, perhaps even mind a lot, but who know better than to admit it out loud, because doing so won't help them.
- kylebrown 15y ago
  She gave her thoughts in a comment: http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/02/startup-dudes-cut-sexist-crap/#comment-434587646 http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/02/startup-dudes-cut-sex...
  - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
    >called out a (perhaps well-meaning) but tone-deaf presenter // Does she mean he has a physical impairment, which would seem more than a bit crass to point out in the context, or is this an idiomatic/euphemistic expression that isn't coming over right?
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      She likely is referring to the tone of speech, not a tone as in note or frequency.
      - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
        I've never heard "tone deaf" used in this way; hence the question. Is it a common USA use? Burgeoning or erstwhile?
        Natsu 15y ago
        I don't know that it's common in the USA, but it seems to be well understood in these parts at least. It's used to describe anyone unable to accurately gauge the mood of the people they're addressing and who thereby offends them with their remarks.
        RebeccaLovell 15y ago
        Hi there...thanks for the clarifying! Language is incredibly loaded and we're all guilty. I absolutely intended that the presenter was not attuned to the impact of his speech. Here's more on that thread. http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/02/startup-dudes-cut-sexist-crap/#comment-434748427 http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/02/startup-dudes-cut-sex...
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
ohashi 15y ago
It makes the whole post seem sensationalized and disingenuous to talk about all the great things this woman has done and then excerpt the fact they seemed to have also covered those in the intro. To be clear, I am not condoning sexism, but this particular tirade against it feels like someone is trying to deceive me into taking their side by not presenting a full picture. It could have simply stated that the intro was actually okay until that point and perhaps that sort of comment inside a longer intro has no place.
- nikatwork 15y ago
  Just because the guy said some things that weren't sexist, doesn't make the sexist comments less bad.
  - ohashi 15y ago
    Not arguing that it does or does not. However, if the author is going to make an argument and discredit whomever made the comments and skip the part where they do exactly what the author says they should have done, the author starts to lose credibility.
    - nikatwork 15y ago
      I agree that the author's argument was inconsistent there. They should have stuck to the point that the comments were inappropriate - which is the main issue.
deleted 15y ago
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vectorpush 15y ago
Thanks for this. The sexy comments were obnoxious and almost certainly wouldn't have been made about a man, but this context paints a different picture than the one the author was trying to convey. "These would all be appropriate topics to use when introducing someone, man or woman. Here’s what the man introducing Rebecca chose to say instead" It seems pretty clear that the omitted portion of his introduction explicitly recognizes her merit. I favor the author's overall point, but by deliberately excluding this portion of the text, he opens himself up to straw-man arguments about the misleading lack of context.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  On the other hand, it's a great honeypot for people who like to take things out of context to make a point
- Sexyisntsexist 15y ago
  How is describing a person as 'sexy' or 'attractive' sexist exactly?
  - whatusername 15y ago
    Double standards are generally sexist. As long as you describe all your male presenters by how they look -- then it's not sexist at all.
    - sp332 15y ago
      Or, even better, if you know the person personally and know that's how they present themselves, or at least you know they're OK with you calling them "sexy" in front of their spouse. Personal relationships trump general rules.
      - whatusername 15y ago
        It's still not a great idea in public scenarios like introducing a speaker at a conference. Completely fine for private scenarios like introducing them to a friend.
shingen 15y ago
I think it's just as fascinating that the blog author left out the full text. Must imply some various qualities about their character, eh.
- ben0x539 15y ago
  It's conveniently linked in the blog post, while an excerpt is provided inline.

bobbles 15y ago

It would be interesting to get Rebeccas thoughts on the introduction.. it sounds strange reading it, but I could easily expect something like that from someone who was a close personal friend of the couple.

saalweachter 15y ago
There's a little bit of selection bias: I wager that if you asked the women in a Mad Men-style secretarial pool if they minded having their bottoms patted and their appearances complemented, a majority of them would say 'no', because women who minded (and had any other employment options) would have long since left the secretary pool for greener pastures with less bottom-patting (or have never gotten such a job to begin with). The sort of people who can make it in the tech world are smart, motivated, powerful people. If they find the tech world uninviting, they have plenty of options elsewhere. So it's perfectly possible that you could survey a hundred women in tech and find that all but a handful don't notice or don't mind their peers' attitudes towards women, but that if you were to survey a hundred women who could be in tech, 95% of them would find the behavior unacceptable.
- mechanical_fish 15y ago
  all but a handful don't notice or don't mind their peers' attitudes towards women You left out an important subset, here: Those who notice, and mind, perhaps even mind a lot, but who know better than to admit it out loud, because doing so won't help them.
kylebrown 15y ago
She gave her thoughts in a comment: http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/02/startup-dudes-cut-sexist-crap/#comment-434587646 http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/02/startup-dudes-cut-sex...
- pbhjpbhj 15y ago
  >called out a (perhaps well-meaning) but tone-deaf presenter // Does she mean he has a physical impairment, which would seem more than a bit crass to point out in the context, or is this an idiomatic/euphemistic expression that isn't coming over right?
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    She likely is referring to the tone of speech, not a tone as in note or frequency.
    - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
      I've never heard "tone deaf" used in this way; hence the question. Is it a common USA use? Burgeoning or erstwhile?
      - Natsu 15y ago
        I don't know that it's common in the USA, but it seems to be well understood in these parts at least. It's used to describe anyone unable to accurately gauge the mood of the people they're addressing and who thereby offends them with their remarks.
        RebeccaLovell 15y ago
        Hi there...thanks for the clarifying! Language is incredibly loaded and we're all guilty. I absolutely intended that the presenter was not attuned to the impact of his speech. Here's more on that thread. http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/02/startup-dudes-cut-sexist-crap/#comment-434748427 http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/02/startup-dudes-cut-sex...
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

ohashi 15y ago

It makes the whole post seem sensationalized and disingenuous to talk about all the great things this woman has done and then excerpt the fact they seemed to have also covered those in the intro. To be clear, I am not condoning sexism, but this particular tirade against it feels like someone is trying to deceive me into taking their side by not presenting a full picture. It could have simply stated that the intro was actually okay until that point and perhaps that sort of comment inside a longer intro has no place.

nikatwork 15y ago
Just because the guy said some things that weren't sexist, doesn't make the sexist comments less bad.
- ohashi 15y ago
  Not arguing that it does or does not. However, if the author is going to make an argument and discredit whomever made the comments and skip the part where they do exactly what the author says they should have done, the author starts to lose credibility.
  - nikatwork 15y ago
    I agree that the author's argument was inconsistent there. They should have stuck to the point that the comments were inappropriate - which is the main issue.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

vectorpush 15y ago

Thanks for this. The sexy comments were obnoxious and almost certainly wouldn't have been made about a man, but this context paints a different picture than the one the author was trying to convey. "These would all be appropriate topics to use when introducing someone, man or woman. Here’s what the man introducing Rebecca chose to say instead" It seems pretty clear that the omitted portion of his introduction explicitly recognizes her merit. I favor the author's overall point, but by deliberately excluding this portion of the text, he opens himself up to straw-man arguments about the misleading lack of context.

sliverstorm 15y ago
On the other hand, it's a great honeypot for people who like to take things out of context to make a point
Sexyisntsexist 15y ago
How is describing a person as 'sexy' or 'attractive' sexist exactly?
- whatusername 15y ago
  Double standards are generally sexist. As long as you describe all your male presenters by how they look -- then it's not sexist at all.
  - sp332 15y ago
    Or, even better, if you know the person personally and know that's how they present themselves, or at least you know they're OK with you calling them "sexy" in front of their spouse. Personal relationships trump general rules.
    - whatusername 15y ago
      It's still not a great idea in public scenarios like introducing a speaker at a conference. Completely fine for private scenarios like introducing them to a friend.

shingen 15y ago

I think it's just as fascinating that the blog author left out the full text. Must imply some various qualities about their character, eh.

ben0x539 15y ago
It's conveniently linked in the blog post, while an excerpt is provided inline.