5 ms·

Relative to other fields. Compare it to wanting to switch careers into the military, plumbing, captaining a boat, or becoming a doctor or lawyer or civil engine

Relative to other fields. Compare it to wanting to switch careers into the military, plumbing, captaining a boat, or becoming a doctor or lawyer or civil engineer after the age of 40. Technology has no age limits, educational requirements, no government enforced credentials or inspections required, no apprenticeship or residency requirements, no significant union presence, no commonality for time in title, no professional tests to pass, and a trivially small tool investment cost. You can plausibly learn the craft to an employable level with just internet access, a couple hundred bucks in computer hardware, an insatiable amount of curiosity and desire to build things and the right personality match against the interview team. It's not a guarantee but the barriers to entry are laughably nonexistent compared to many careers.

hgsgm 3y ago
Real estate agency is also easy to get into, and can pay a lot. that doesn't make the median agent high-income
- evilduck 3y ago
  Real estate has licensing requirements, a national association you kinda need to participate in (MLS) and tons of regulatory requirements. I can't just wake up tomorrow and sell real estate.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    The real estate exam is way easier than any IT interview. The MLS is a minor fee for access to the listing service. Tech has tons of regulatory requirements, some segments more than others. Most of the requirements for real estate are in the standard template already. Anything more difficult, and an agent will refer you to see a real estate attorney (much higher barrier to entry). An easy way to look at this is how many real estate agents could be devs vs how many devs could be agents...
    - evilduck 3y ago
      But those are all hurdles you must jump even if the skill required to do so is low. My dog groomer can fiddle with writing Excel formulas and then decide that tomorrow she wants to apply for an entry level software role, write a convincing resume and bullshit the right mix of interviewers well enough and literally nothing would stop her from making it through the application process or beginning an entry level job and turning that into a career if she was successful in the role. There is no standard or required process or governing body or common association or union or group to say who has what it takes to be a dev. Tech can also have tons of regulatory requirements for the product or business but almost none exist for the employees themselves in the majority of jobs. You can hire a whole team of convicted felons that have never written a line of code into your software department, hand out the associate software engineer title to them and still pass most compliance, regulatory and audit requirements. It would probably be a dumb decision but nothing will stop me from calling them software developers and paying them as such and these roles are common (even if they don't pay entry level FAANG wages, they certainly pay living wages). That doesn't make writing software easy, and doing nothing to set yourself up for success is going to lead to failure, stalling and washing out most of the time, but it's effectively a walk-on playing field of meritocracy in most cases.
      - giantg2 3y ago
        "field of meritocracy" Meritocracies don't exist, only the illusion for those that benefit. Yes, it seems you're using the lowest theoretical barriers. That's fine. I'm talking about the common practical barriers. Of course our conclusions will differs.
giantg2 3y ago
Yeah, and it's still not easy, especially if you're talking about being in the higher income levels. It's also not enough to just enjoy learning and growing to get you there.
- evilduck 3y ago
  Ok? You can play the victim all you want but entry into tech is by every measure easier than comparably compensated career fields.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    And that's not what's being discussed here. What we are discusing is the distorted view in the original comment. The original comment was comparing the top earners of one field to the median earners for another. It would be better to compare the medians. For example median dev salary is about $110k. Median physician salary is about $205k. So no, these are not comparably paying jobs. And one does not "easily" earn more than a physician simply by enjoying learning.
    - evilduck 3y ago
      I have an employee right now with Bachelor of Art in Music whose career in music fizzled out making $190k today in software outside of SV. That's it. That's his software credentials. A physician lost far more money in life getting their degree and spends about that gap in pay in malpractice insurance and professional attire required to work in a hospital, and generally works more hours at a higher stress level. Your bitterness is completely blinding you.
      - aio2 3y ago
        Yall need to calm your asses. It's just a comparison to other job
        giantg2 3y ago
        It's more than that. It's the continuation of a distorted view of reality in which the world is a meritocracy and everyone can be rich if they just try hard enough. That's there's nothing stopping anyone from taking a job that doesn't require years of training and making 2x+ the median for that role and using just an anecdote to back it up. This type of stuff is detrimental to the choices and mental health of the next generation - expecting things that don't exist and then being crushed by reality.

hgsgm 3y ago

Real estate agency is also easy to get into, and can pay a lot. that doesn't make the median agent high-income

evilduck 3y ago
Real estate has licensing requirements, a national association you kinda need to participate in (MLS) and tons of regulatory requirements. I can't just wake up tomorrow and sell real estate.
- giantg2 3y ago
  The real estate exam is way easier than any IT interview. The MLS is a minor fee for access to the listing service. Tech has tons of regulatory requirements, some segments more than others. Most of the requirements for real estate are in the standard template already. Anything more difficult, and an agent will refer you to see a real estate attorney (much higher barrier to entry). An easy way to look at this is how many real estate agents could be devs vs how many devs could be agents...
  - evilduck 3y ago
    But those are all hurdles you must jump even if the skill required to do so is low. My dog groomer can fiddle with writing Excel formulas and then decide that tomorrow she wants to apply for an entry level software role, write a convincing resume and bullshit the right mix of interviewers well enough and literally nothing would stop her from making it through the application process or beginning an entry level job and turning that into a career if she was successful in the role. There is no standard or required process or governing body or common association or union or group to say who has what it takes to be a dev. Tech can also have tons of regulatory requirements for the product or business but almost none exist for the employees themselves in the majority of jobs. You can hire a whole team of convicted felons that have never written a line of code into your software department, hand out the associate software engineer title to them and still pass most compliance, regulatory and audit requirements. It would probably be a dumb decision but nothing will stop me from calling them software developers and paying them as such and these roles are common (even if they don't pay entry level FAANG wages, they certainly pay living wages). That doesn't make writing software easy, and doing nothing to set yourself up for success is going to lead to failure, stalling and washing out most of the time, but it's effectively a walk-on playing field of meritocracy in most cases.
    - giantg2 3y ago
      "field of meritocracy" Meritocracies don't exist, only the illusion for those that benefit. Yes, it seems you're using the lowest theoretical barriers. That's fine. I'm talking about the common practical barriers. Of course our conclusions will differs.

giantg2 3y ago

Yeah, and it's still not easy, especially if you're talking about being in the higher income levels. It's also not enough to just enjoy learning and growing to get you there.

evilduck 3y ago
Ok? You can play the victim all you want but entry into tech is by every measure easier than comparably compensated career fields.
- giantg2 3y ago
  And that's not what's being discussed here. What we are discusing is the distorted view in the original comment. The original comment was comparing the top earners of one field to the median earners for another. It would be better to compare the medians. For example median dev salary is about $110k. Median physician salary is about $205k. So no, these are not comparably paying jobs. And one does not "easily" earn more than a physician simply by enjoying learning.
  - evilduck 3y ago
    I have an employee right now with Bachelor of Art in Music whose career in music fizzled out making $190k today in software outside of SV. That's it. That's his software credentials. A physician lost far more money in life getting their degree and spends about that gap in pay in malpractice insurance and professional attire required to work in a hospital, and generally works more hours at a higher stress level. Your bitterness is completely blinding you.
    - aio2 3y ago
      Yall need to calm your asses. It's just a comparison to other job
      - giantg2 3y ago
        It's more than that. It's the continuation of a distorted view of reality in which the world is a meritocracy and everyone can be rich if they just try hard enough. That's there's nothing stopping anyone from taking a job that doesn't require years of training and making 2x+ the median for that role and using just an anecdote to back it up. This type of stuff is detrimental to the choices and mental health of the next generation - expecting things that don't exist and then being crushed by reality.