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A recent piece in The Economist argued that China is doing more to combat global warming than is any other nation, and if America is going to do better then we'

A recent piece in The Economist argued that China is doing more to combat global warming than is any other nation, and if America is going to do better then we'll have to become more like China. I agree on both points. And I think that will be the outcome eventually.

NikolaNovak 4y ago
That's fascinating, especially considering the source - do you have a link by any chance?
- intrasight 4y ago
  I just looked but I can't find it. Is possible it was in another publication.
matthewdgreen 4y ago
China is building a huge amount of renewable power and shipping tech to the world. But they're also burning a phenomenal amount of coal: so much so that they alone may determine whether we survive this next few decades.
jmclnx 4y ago
> China is doing more to combat global warming than is any other nation If this is happening, and no reason to doubt that, it is easier for a Nation like China to do this than say the US. Why, Xi can say "Build more windmills now in ..." and it will happen. In the US, the 'in' is important, people will fight any development with in 10 miles of where they live. So it takes over 10 years for just the plan to be finalized. For a good example see: https://www.wcvb.com/article/nantucket-residents-lawsuit-to-stop-vineyard-wind/42645135 https://www.wcvb.com/article/nantucket-residents-lawsuit-to-... That is just the latest suit, IIRC this has been on-going for like 10 years.
- MSFT_Edging 4y ago
  If we can force people out of their homes for overpasses and football stadiums, we can sure as hell force renewable projects through. China has one thing right, the idea of actions for a greater good. I forget the actual wording/idiom but we severely lack that in the west. It's all "what about me" and it drags any kind of progress to a halt unless it can be put in someone elses back yard or they can make a profit off of it.
908B64B197 4y ago
> China is doing more to combat global warming than is any other nation What? The west is working hard at lowering it's emissions, but all that work is getting undone because China's emissions aren't slowing down. Coal is incredibly cheap when there's no carbon tax or emission standards. One of the many reasons it's cheaper to manufacture in China and why North Americans and Europeans can't compete [0]. Comparing the US[1] and China[2], the US has: - Decreasing per capita emissions in the US starting in 1973 (-27%) - A decrease in the countries emission starting in 2007 (-13%) Meanwhile for the same period China has had - a 7x increase per capita since 1973 (+532%) - 48% increase for its global emissions since 2007 So it is possible to drastically reduce our carbon footprint thanks to innovation and smarter power generation. Time to add tariffs on goods produced by states who made the decision of going all-in on polluting power generation, and potentially apply immigration quotas to citizens of these countries. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/26/us-leads-greenhouse-gas-emissions-on-a-per-capita-basis-report-finds.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/26/us-leads-greenhouse-gas-emis... [1] https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-states https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-states [2] https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china
- intrasight 4y ago
  For sure China is a huge problem with their use of coal. But they do have a plan, and a command economy that let's them execute on that plan. I am fully in favor of the kind of "fair trade" that would force countries to eat their environmental externalities. In the case of China, it's a double-win since it would put huge pressure on them to change and also more than fund all of our environmental initiatives. But without a global carbon tax/credit system, this just ain't gonna happen.
- reisse 4y ago
  Your comparison between China and US from 1973 to now is fundamentally wrong. In 1970s, US already was a developed country, while China was barely rising from poverty. It's unfair when the western countries demand lowering emissions from the third world. West was able to enjoy unlimited carbon emissions for years, while the third world was mostly agricultural and had poorly developed economies. Now, when other countries undergo the same economic transformations US had long time ago, Americans demand them to ditch progress for the sake of preventing climate change. And that's while outsourcing "dirty" manufacturing and waste management to the same third world countries.

NikolaNovak 4y ago

That's fascinating, especially considering the source - do you have a link by any chance?

intrasight 4y ago
I just looked but I can't find it. Is possible it was in another publication.

matthewdgreen 4y ago

China is building a huge amount of renewable power and shipping tech to the world. But they're also burning a phenomenal amount of coal: so much so that they alone may determine whether we survive this next few decades.

jmclnx 4y ago

> China is doing more to combat global warming than is any other nation If this is happening, and no reason to doubt that, it is easier for a Nation like China to do this than say the US. Why, Xi can say "Build more windmills now in ..." and it will happen. In the US, the 'in' is important, people will fight any development with in 10 miles of where they live. So it takes over 10 years for just the plan to be finalized. For a good example see: https://www.wcvb.com/article/nantucket-residents-lawsuit-to-stop-vineyard-wind/42645135 https://www.wcvb.com/article/nantucket-residents-lawsuit-to-... That is just the latest suit, IIRC this has been on-going for like 10 years.

MSFT_Edging 4y ago
If we can force people out of their homes for overpasses and football stadiums, we can sure as hell force renewable projects through. China has one thing right, the idea of actions for a greater good. I forget the actual wording/idiom but we severely lack that in the west. It's all "what about me" and it drags any kind of progress to a halt unless it can be put in someone elses back yard or they can make a profit off of it.

908B64B197 4y ago

> China is doing more to combat global warming than is any other nation What? The west is working hard at lowering it's emissions, but all that work is getting undone because China's emissions aren't slowing down. Coal is incredibly cheap when there's no carbon tax or emission standards. One of the many reasons it's cheaper to manufacture in China and why North Americans and Europeans can't compete [0]. Comparing the US[1] and China[2], the US has: - Decreasing per capita emissions in the US starting in 1973 (-27%) - A decrease in the countries emission starting in 2007 (-13%) Meanwhile for the same period China has had - a 7x increase per capita since 1973 (+532%) - 48% increase for its global emissions since 2007 So it is possible to drastically reduce our carbon footprint thanks to innovation and smarter power generation. Time to add tariffs on goods produced by states who made the decision of going all-in on polluting power generation, and potentially apply immigration quotas to citizens of these countries. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/26/us-leads-greenhouse-gas-emissions-on-a-per-capita-basis-report-finds.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/26/us-leads-greenhouse-gas-emis... [1] https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-states https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-states [2] https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china

intrasight 4y ago
For sure China is a huge problem with their use of coal. But they do have a plan, and a command economy that let's them execute on that plan. I am fully in favor of the kind of "fair trade" that would force countries to eat their environmental externalities. In the case of China, it's a double-win since it would put huge pressure on them to change and also more than fund all of our environmental initiatives. But without a global carbon tax/credit system, this just ain't gonna happen.
reisse 4y ago
Your comparison between China and US from 1973 to now is fundamentally wrong. In 1970s, US already was a developed country, while China was barely rising from poverty. It's unfair when the western countries demand lowering emissions from the third world. West was able to enjoy unlimited carbon emissions for years, while the third world was mostly agricultural and had poorly developed economies. Now, when other countries undergo the same economic transformations US had long time ago, Americans demand them to ditch progress for the sake of preventing climate change. And that's while outsourcing "dirty" manufacturing and waste management to the same third world countries.