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I love IKEA but these choices are not structurally-equivalent substitutes. They'll start becoming trash the (second) time you try to rebuild them when you move.
by sockaddr 3y ago
I love IKEA but these choices are not structurally-equivalent substitutes. They'll start becoming trash the (second) time you try to rebuild them when you move. It's the same garbage that Walmart has been selling.
Yes you buy something for 1/3rd the cost of something made of real wood but it'll last 1/20th the time.
What is particularly irritating is when you try to insert a cam or a screw and it totally mutilates the particle board rendering it useless or at least severely compromising the structure.
I'd rather see prices stay higher (so I'm screwed in a way that I'm aware) instead of getting screwed in unknown ways.
- hattmall 3y agoWhat's interesting is that if your trying to build your own stuff is that the veneers and things are expensive, but actual wood is cheap. Ikea, or someone else could probably make huge profits and great quality furniture where you buy the flatpack with hardware and veneers from them but it's design to add your own wood for massively improved stability. You could even have a few guys with miter and table saws chopping locally sourced 2x4s and plywood that fits the kit.
- JAlexoid 3y agoCabinetry grade wood is actually expensive.
- dublin 3y agoPro-grade stuff, yes, but you can build decently nice cabinetry out of the affordable Alder or other whitewood boards at Lowes or Home Depot, especially if you're going for paint, not stain. Also, nice birch plywood has come back down to reasonable prices per sheet. (Use edge banding on plywood to give a pro look - it's easy to iron on and trim with a razor knife.) Part of the trick to doing this on the cheap and easy is recognizing that many times (e.g., bookcases, or cases for cabinets (order doors from an Internet shop) the precise dimensions matter less than consistency between the pieces. I did a bunch of built-in bookcases a few years ago after my table saw died, and had Lowes cut all the 3/4 Birch ply down to about 9 inches. They won't do or guarantee precision cuts, but I just had them set up the saw once and rip out all the strips from several sheets of plywood at once, so all were identical width, which I could then easily cut to length with a power miter saw. I saved thousands of dollars over the quotes I got from local carpenters and cabinetmakers, and the result is very close to what I would have gotten from them. (BTW, another pro tip is General Finishes "Milk Paint", which is expensive, but worth every penny - put it on with a good brush and the stuff self-levels so well it looks very close to a pro sprayed finish, and comes in a wide range of colors.)
- JAlexoid 3y agoWhitewood boards are great and very cheap, but I would still opt for MDF. Kiln dried whitewood still produces sap and dents easier than any MDF I have worked with. By whitewood I presume you mean that mysterious asian species of wood, that dominates the market. Byt here's my tip - for amateur woodworking, go to a speciality lumber yard that sells S4S. They have discounted and returned items at fairly low prices. I made two bedside tables out of warped, cracked oak shelving S4S boards at about 30% of the cost of materials. But... that was still a hobby project that I had spare time for. If I accounted for the average cost of a carpenter's hourly wages - those items would cost easily $2000 each in labor.
- kube-system 3y agoIkea has a decent amount of cheap furniture that is already solid pine.
- Kretinsky 3y agoUnfortunately, the range of Ikea products made from wood is getting smaller and smaller each year.
- dirtyid 3y agoThe range from fairly durable/solid sheet metal getting larger and larger each year. But aesthetics not to everyones taste.
- Kretinsky 3y agoI don't know where you live (Ikea has local lineups), but for instance, where I am (Baltics), I couldn't find a wooden dressing cabinet last week.
- kube-system 3y agoInteresting. I am always surprised that here in the US most (maybe all) of my pine Ikea furniture was made in Poland, considering how cheap pine is here in North America. Strange that you wouldn't have the same stuff considering how much closer it is to you. We have a lot of solid wood dressers here, this is just a few: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/hemnes-8-drawer-dresser-white-stain-00318598/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/hemnes-8-drawer-dresser-white-s... https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/rast-3-drawer-chest-pine-10484790/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/rast-3-drawer-chest-pine-104847... https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/bjoerksnaes-5-drawer-chest-birch-70407303/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/bjoerksnaes-5-drawer-chest-birc... https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/tarva-5-drawer-chest-pine-10360704/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/tarva-5-drawer-chest-pine-10360...
- Kretinsky 3y ago
- majormajor 3y agoCutting your own pine boards to replace the particleboard shelves and side panels in your Billy bookcase is likely to give you ok-but-also-not-exactly-straight-and-parallel results without a lot of specialized tools and techniques.
- teg4n_ 3y agothat is replacing essentially the whole piece of furniture beside the cardboard backing
- yetanotherloser 3y agoNot really. Youtubers with sponsors sell this daft idea that you "need" a lot of power tools to do woodwork, but you can do most of it quite precisely with a couple of hand saws, a good chisel and a block plane. Though by the time you've replaced all the particleboard in a Billy you may as well just make a new bookcase from scratch and give it proper joints.
- JAlexoid 3y agoAnd loosing 5-12 hours of your life. Is the price difference worth that?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tap-snap-or-nap 3y agoBeing on phone, ipads and computer almost all the rest of my waking hours makes doing single tasks towards a larger project slowly quite meditative.
- orthoxerox 3y agoWhat else should I spend my hobby hours on? Woodworking is better than DotA2 or whatever kids play these days.
- yetanotherloser 3y ago
- Boltgolt 3y agoFor many types of furniture there are different price points at IKEA and you can pay for more quality. For bar tables for instance, you can go for a TOMMARYD and have a cheap flimsy table. But if you have the budget to spend over a hundred euros more you can go for a fully wooden NORDVIKEN.
- inferiorhuman 3y agoHate to break it to you but the top is particleboard, and on the extendable versions there's a lot more particleboard.
- selcuka 3y agoI guess you're right [1]: NORDVIKEN Table top: Particleboard, Ash veneer, Stain, Tinted clear acrylic lacquer, Paper foil Only legs and rails are solid wood. [1] https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/nordviken-extendable-table-black-20368714/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/nordviken-extendable-table-blac...
- StrictDabbler 3y agoThe correct way to assemble Ikea furniture is to apply wood glue (PVA or polyurethane) along every joint, in every screw hole, on every dowel, and along the edges of every backing board. For extra points you can wipe polyurethane along any raw particle-board surfaces to seal them, like those on the bottom of a vertical unit. It's about five minutes extra effort and $0.50 worth of glue for something like a large Billy bookcase. This basically turns the entire piece into a single composite structure. It's incredibly durable. You cannot disassemble it to move but you can move it whole many, many times without anything breaking. I have had to take a large sledgehammer to an Ikea entertainment center that I'd glued. Walmart garbage does not respond the same way to this treatment. The Walmart (or Wayfair) particle board is a wooden oatmeal cookie. It crumbles from within regardless of how the joints are treated.
- wildzzz 3y agoIkea does sometimes use that low quality particle board for some things but at least they seem to be intelligent as to what materials they use where. Whereas Walmart just sells things entirely made of that shit.
- runjake 3y agoAs far as I can tell, a lot of the more recent IKEA stuff we've bought is using that "wooden oatmeal cookie"[1] and honeycomb cardboard junk. I think some commenters are underestimating how much their materials have changed. We've even have an older version of a shelf unit that is nice, solid pine, and gone and bought the current version and the current version has changed to that wooden oatmeal cookie[1] crap. Glue does still help, though. 1. Great term, so fitting! I'm stealing it.
- BoorishBears 3y agoThis is a worrying article because they had already seemed to previously squeeze all the quality they could have of their products. In the past most of their table tops were solids, with only the cheapest ones being hollow. As they phased out those original tops and replaced them with identically priced updates, the vast majority become cardboard honeycomb filled. When you're selling $200 cardboard filled table tops, I'm not sure how much more blood you can squeeze from the stone.
- JohnFen 3y agoIKEA sells utter garbage. They're the furnishings equivalent of "fast fashion".
- latchkey 3y ago'fast fashion' is not the same as utter garbage unless you just want to be a snob about things. People buy stuff from Ikea non-stop and it is perfectly ok to have 'fast fashion'.
- JohnFen 3y agoIt's not a snob thing at all. Fast fashion is a euphemism for cheap disposable clothes. That part of the clothing industry is extremely harmful both environmentally and in terms of human decency.
- waboremo 3y agoIt's the complete disregard for environmental (and labor) impact that defines fast fashion. Nobody would care if fast fashion was just about it being cheap or disposable. You can argue Ikea has had huge environmental impact, but you are commenting under an article that highlights some of the ways they're reducing that through materials.
- JAlexoid 3y agoMy classmates in university worked part time at an IKEA subcontractor. They had probably the best working conditions in the market. Your "knowledge" of IKEAs business practices is "lacking"
- JohnFen 3y agoIt is indeed -- which is why I wasn't commenting on their business practices. I was only commenting on my experience with their products.
- contingencies 3y agoYes, that's what the market wants. Ikea win because they (1) have stock (2) have a short and known delivery window (3) have a functional website (4) have showrooms if necessary (5) have instructions people can follow (6) basically invented popular flatpack furniture (7) flatpacks fit in cars, up stairs and around corners (8) they provide nominal styling choices and height adjustment (9) have economies of scale. Many customers don't care about tomorrow (when they are on their keens cursing putting the thing they ordered together) or the next year (when they move house and it falls apart). They care about now. Convenience is king. Ikea know what they are doing.
- dirtyid 3y agoSome movers seem to be very good at moving Ikea furniture. Wrap it up, cinch it tight with straps. I've seen packed billy bookcases and garbage malm wardrobes moved this way without structural compromise. Saved a lot of time packing too. Bigger items need to be disassembled like bed I would pick something with steel frame that gets nut and bolted.
- crazygringo 3y agoIKEA has always fallen apart when you try to move it, none of these changes alter that. The main example in the article is replacing a wooden veneer with paper foil. That is totally non-structural. And IKEA stuff costs a lot less than 1/3 of finished solid wood furniture. There are a lot of people who consistently move apartments every 1-3 years and don't even want to take their old stuff to the next one, because it makes no sense in a new layout. I have 3 Billy bookcases in my current apartment to fit precisely the width between two pillars in the wall, and when I move they'll go straight to the curb. I had a totally different set of bookcases in my last apartment because the layout was totally different. Maybe you want prices to stay higher, but I and most other people sure don't. I have a few very nice expensive non-IKEA pieces (couch, bed, kitchen table) that last and which I take from apartment to apartment. But everything else is "modular storage/surfaces" (bookcases, cubbies, side/end tables, dresser, bedside table, desk) which is for the current apartment only because it fits it specifically. I want it to be cheap and disposable. IKEA fills the need perfectly, and I want prices to stay as low as possible. I don't want to spend more so any of it would last a move. (And many times moving isn't even an option. Because you move in with somebody else so you toss all your old furniture, or you move across the country and you'd rather cheaply send a few boxes via post, rather than hiring an expensive moving service.)
- hef19898 3y agoTheir PAX line of wardrobes totally reassembles a lot of times, same goes for IVAR. The latest Billies, well, I kind of doubt that.
- xapata 3y agoFor a long distance move, it's often cheaper to sell and repurchase than move furniture.
- agentdrtran 3y agoalso, people are glad to take slightly busted IKEA stuff for free or cheap. It goes quickly in all the facebook groups I'm in.
- ska 3y ago> IKEA has always fallen apart when y Some of it has. Not everything they offer is particle board, etc. though.
- achenatx 3y agowhy would I want my furniture to last 20 years? My wife will cycle pieces after 5-10 because she wants something new. We also have moved ikea couches multiple times and they are fine. It is easy to get replacement cushions when the kids spill stuff on the couches and when the wife decides she wants to get rid of it, it doesnt bother me. We have had our ikea for 6-7 years now, but before that we had very expensive louis shanks furniture and when her tastes changed to modern we got rid of it all. She wants to change the dining room furniture, but at 1K per chair with 12 chairs that is not happening.
- oblio 3y ago> why would I want my furniture to last 20 years? My wife will cycle pieces after 5-10 because she wants something new. I was always wondering where people's disposable income went :-))
- waynesonfire 3y agoResale of Ikea is close to zero unlike those 1k chairs. The only fool is the poor person unable to afford furniture that holds it's value. When you're ready for something new, you can actually sell the old gear for non-trivial amount.
- BoorishBears 3y agoI haven't seen this hold true at all. People who know what a Knoll Wassily is worth and are willing to pay anything near what it's worth just buy a new one. To everyone else, it's just that weird leather chair you see in every office because of knockoffs, and you'll be competing with knockoffs on pricing. The fact you put "ORIGINAL KNOLL" in your listing won't mean anything to them. Around here Facebook Marketplace is chock full of furniture like that. While I was waiting for my furniture to be shipped across the chair I was looking for a temporary dining set: I ended up with $2,000 marble table for $300 because the owner had underestimated how long it'd take to sell and needed someone to pick it up in 48 hours.
- recursivecaveat 3y ago
- gnicholas 3y agoMoving companies typically exclude particle board items like these from their insurance coverage. I've successfully moved a few IKEA items, but if they're taking 90% of the wood out of certain parts, I have to imagine they're going to be even more fragile now.
- 0xbadcafebee 3y agoYou say this like it's unintentional
- djmips 3y agoOther things come to mind - do they out gas more? Do they release more toxic gases when they burn?
- ouid 3y agoThe point of ikea furniture is that you can throw it away when you move. Moving furniture is more expensive than buying new ikea furniture. Just don't buy their couches.
- onos 3y agoI’ve had my ikea desk through six moves and 17 years. True, a bit rickety in spots, but it still works.
- LargoLasskhyfv 3y agoYou're using it wrong. Use duct-tape, sugru, super-glue or combinations thereof. Or simply trash it and get it new, or something real instead :-)
- thecleaner 3y agoVery different experience here. Bought a Billy, moved houses twice, the fucker is still alive and strong and grimly stands in a corner supporting two shelves worth of heavy books and a ton of paperwork.
- Guybrush_T 3y agoI have the same experience with a Billy. It's much more study and solid feeling than the other solid wood shelves I've bought from IKEA.
- eternityforest 3y agoI almost never see any particle board or similar fail in normal use except at the fasteners. If they would stop using those fasteners, things might be a lot more durable. It's already repairable fairly easily with basic tools, and it's probably cheaper and easier to reinforce the points where it breaks with a block of scrap or something than to buy actual nice furniture. Injection molding is cheap, I'm not sure why they don't use plastic inserts instead of bare wood on metal. I'm also not sure why they try to hide screws so hard and avoid brackets and other hardware. Letting screws show and selling a matching line of tablecloths and mats to hide them would be a more complete implementation of the "Design to make stuff work without quality materials" philosophy. The fake wood has potential. I still like it even though it doesn't have really value or quality, because... it works amazingly well for what it is, and there's still room to improve.