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> every other This has been a common scenario for many countries and cities around the world, for a long time, before the MTA introduced it, with similar flawl

> every other This has been a common scenario for many countries and cities around the world, for a long time, before the MTA introduced it, with similar flawless execution. Just off the top of my head, London, Singapore, Sydney, Japan and South Korea. I remember when Americans were initially hostile to NFC payments almost a decade ago, but I guess times change?

xnx 3y ago
> This has been a common scenario for many countries and cities around the world By using a watch or a card? A watch is 10x better than a card because it's always available, even when your hands are full.
- senttoschool 3y ago
  What happens if the Watch runs out of battery?
  - wenc 3y ago
    That never happens and I wear my Apple Watch all day and all night (for sleep tracking) except for when I shower -- I plop it on my charger once a day when I shower and it charges to full during my shower (it doesn't take that long for the Watch to charge to full) iOS devices also have Power Reserve, which lets you use wallet and express transit for up to 5 hours even after your battery is out of juice. https://www.idownloadblog.com/2022/01/13/apple-power-reserve-guide/ https://www.idownloadblog.com/2022/01/13/apple-power-reserve...
    - bombolo 3y ago
      Never runs out of charge… needs recharging daily? How do these 2 not conflict?
      - mikepurvis 3y ago
        Just that there's a routine in place which ensures it always gets the required charge without it needing to be especially planned for.
        bombolo 3y ago
        I'm sure it works great when you're travelling /s
        wenc 3y ago
        Traveled to Japan recently (time zone change, long transpacific flight). No problem. I charged the Watch when I got to the hotel and it still had quite a bit of charge left. Then I just charged it whenever I showered and that worked for me. The Watch isn’t like a phone. It doesn’t have a lot of background apps running and the battery life between charge intervals is more than enough.
      - wenc 3y ago
        Simple. To "run out" means to drop to a 0% battery level. That has never happened to my Watch since I've unboxed it.
        zamnos 3y ago
        Good for you, but with a battery life measured in hours, not days, unless you've got a life that's on such a routine that you charge it every day, it's going to run out of battery. I have a Series 4 watch and that thing spends most of its time at 0% battery level. It's not so useful when I'm just sitting at home, so I don't bother to charge it unless I'm planning on going out.
        otterley 3y ago
        Most Apple Watch owners charge their watch while they’re asleep at night.
        3y ago
  - re-thc 3y ago
    Take out your phone? What happens if your phone runs out of battery? Take out your tablet.
  - lowbloodsugar 3y ago
    Fumble in wallet for suica / oyster card?
  - janekm 3y ago
    It still works in power reserve. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212171 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212171
- enlyth 3y ago
  Isn't it the same thing, just NFC? The only difference I know is that your watch/phone will not limit you to a certain amount like your card will, since you're authenticating when paying.
- taeric 3y ago
  NFC is NFC. Tap to pay with the physical cards is what convinced me to finally start using the same thing on my phone. If I had a watch... I'd probably still use the phone? I'm not entirely clear on why or how Dick Tracy inverted, yet again. Note that I have no problem with others liking the watch. I just don't see what makes it so much more convenient than a phone. Curious what will pull me over.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Doesn’t the phone have to be unlocked? The watch authenticates one time when you put it on (and unauthenticates when you take it off), so you can securely pay for things via a double click of a button then tap, vs having to unlock the phone with your face first or enter a pin or whatever. If someone steals your watch, they can’t steal your money unless they some how can cut off your wrist without triggering an unauthentication.
    - taeric 3y ago
      My paranoia is such that I'm sure I would require my watch also have some form of "be unlocked." And since this is largely, "be unfolded and have seen my fingerprint recently," feels like a non issue?
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Phones aren’t secure enough, even if it’s seen your face or fingerprint recently. Actually, Apple offered a way to use your watch to make your phone easier to unlock, as long as your watch is nearby and has been authenticated itself. The whole “on your wrist” authentication experience can be used for the phone also, I guess.
    - janekm 3y ago
      Doesn’t need to be unlocked for public transport transactions, just tap the locked phone (watch also works without further interaction). https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212171 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212171
- kalleboo 3y ago
  Suica (used for transit in Japan) has been supported on Apple Watch in Japan since the Apple Watch Series 2 way back in 2016 On the London Underground since 2014 you can use any regular EMV NFC debit/credit card to tap in and out of turnstiles. Since Apple Pay just implements the EMV standard, it works just fine as well with any credit card you have added in there.
  - kitsunesoba 3y ago
    Suica was amazing the last time I visited Japan. Just bop your watch and go. It even supported reloading cash from my US credit card with the native iOS/watchOS provided card management UI, no need to fidget around with a questionably engineered third party app.
- fomine3 3y ago
  Best for who wearing watch on right wrist
- shawabawa3 3y ago
  Using any NFC device You can buy NFC rings these days
pbreit 3y ago
Chip payments remain awful. Mag stripe worked much, much better. Much cheaper "terminals". Could use in many more places. The awfulness of chip payments makes Apple Pay possible.
- jackvalentine 3y ago
  Australia went basically overnight from magstripe to chip and pin without issue. There was something uniquely awful about how the U.S. did it.
  - mikepurvis 3y ago
    Canada also adopted it pretty quickly, years before the US. There was an extended period in there from around 2007 to 2020 where it felt like traveling back in time when I went to the US and it was magstripe and signatures again.
    - Freedom2 3y ago
      Don't forget about using cheques and having to use third-party applications for money transfer between people (Venmo, CashApp). Americans always seem to come up with an excuse for why they are slower, like a comment higher in this thread, despite the rest of the world moving on with more convenient and accessible technologies. Is it an overly defensive culture?
      - jackvalentine 3y ago
        Maybe it’s cognitive dissonance caused by nearly 80 years of ‘America is #1’ propaganda.
      - otterley 3y ago
        Massive installed base of older technology plus no financial incentives to update.
      - tallanvor 3y ago
        Do you really just use your bank's app to transfer money to anyone, though? Sure, here in Norway if I know their account number I can do that, but if I want to transfer money to a friend, I'm probably going to use Vipps because I only need to know their phone number. I consider Vipps to be a 3rd party app even though it's jointly owned by the major banks here. Every country is unique, but the financial system in the US is, as far as I can tell, quite unique, in large part due to how large the country is both in physical size and population, combined with a governing system that decentralizes a lot of power (which means some changes are much harder to mandate vs what China can decide to do, for example). You have to understand some of these foundational differences, after which it makes much more sense why some things move much more slowly in the US.
bobthepanda 3y ago
There was a first wave of contactless in the US, which then died very quickly because major retailers sued Visa/MC about preferential terms for contactless cards, and won. The new wave seems mostly driven by Stripe and Square being adopted by small businesses everywhere and supporting it out of the box, forcing the major retailers to finally catch up.
kmlx 3y ago
> with similar flawless execution > Just off the top of my head, London Transport of London used (and still does) Oyster Cards (contactless smart cards). when they switched the system to also support contactless credit cards all they had to do was flip a switch, the support was already baked in. contactless credit card support on TfL started in 2012 and the full rollout was in 2014.

xnx 3y ago

> This has been a common scenario for many countries and cities around the world By using a watch or a card? A watch is 10x better than a card because it's always available, even when your hands are full.

senttoschool 3y ago
What happens if the Watch runs out of battery?
- wenc 3y ago
  That never happens and I wear my Apple Watch all day and all night (for sleep tracking) except for when I shower -- I plop it on my charger once a day when I shower and it charges to full during my shower (it doesn't take that long for the Watch to charge to full) iOS devices also have Power Reserve, which lets you use wallet and express transit for up to 5 hours even after your battery is out of juice. https://www.idownloadblog.com/2022/01/13/apple-power-reserve-guide/ https://www.idownloadblog.com/2022/01/13/apple-power-reserve...
  - bombolo 3y ago
    Never runs out of charge… needs recharging daily? How do these 2 not conflict?
    - mikepurvis 3y ago
      Just that there's a routine in place which ensures it always gets the required charge without it needing to be especially planned for.
      - bombolo 3y ago
        I'm sure it works great when you're travelling /s
        wenc 3y ago
        Traveled to Japan recently (time zone change, long transpacific flight). No problem. I charged the Watch when I got to the hotel and it still had quite a bit of charge left. Then I just charged it whenever I showered and that worked for me. The Watch isn’t like a phone. It doesn’t have a lot of background apps running and the battery life between charge intervals is more than enough.
    - wenc 3y ago
      Simple. To "run out" means to drop to a 0% battery level. That has never happened to my Watch since I've unboxed it.
      - zamnos 3y ago
        Good for you, but with a battery life measured in hours, not days, unless you've got a life that's on such a routine that you charge it every day, it's going to run out of battery. I have a Series 4 watch and that thing spends most of its time at 0% battery level. It's not so useful when I'm just sitting at home, so I don't bother to charge it unless I'm planning on going out.
        otterley 3y ago
        Most Apple Watch owners charge their watch while they’re asleep at night.
        3y ago
- re-thc 3y ago
  Take out your phone? What happens if your phone runs out of battery? Take out your tablet.
- lowbloodsugar 3y ago
  Fumble in wallet for suica / oyster card?
- janekm 3y ago
  It still works in power reserve. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212171 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212171
enlyth 3y ago
Isn't it the same thing, just NFC? The only difference I know is that your watch/phone will not limit you to a certain amount like your card will, since you're authenticating when paying.
taeric 3y ago
NFC is NFC. Tap to pay with the physical cards is what convinced me to finally start using the same thing on my phone. If I had a watch... I'd probably still use the phone? I'm not entirely clear on why or how Dick Tracy inverted, yet again. Note that I have no problem with others liking the watch. I just don't see what makes it so much more convenient than a phone. Curious what will pull me over.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Doesn’t the phone have to be unlocked? The watch authenticates one time when you put it on (and unauthenticates when you take it off), so you can securely pay for things via a double click of a button then tap, vs having to unlock the phone with your face first or enter a pin or whatever. If someone steals your watch, they can’t steal your money unless they some how can cut off your wrist without triggering an unauthentication.
  - taeric 3y ago
    My paranoia is such that I'm sure I would require my watch also have some form of "be unlocked." And since this is largely, "be unfolded and have seen my fingerprint recently," feels like a non issue?
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Phones aren’t secure enough, even if it’s seen your face or fingerprint recently. Actually, Apple offered a way to use your watch to make your phone easier to unlock, as long as your watch is nearby and has been authenticated itself. The whole “on your wrist” authentication experience can be used for the phone also, I guess.
  - janekm 3y ago
    Doesn’t need to be unlocked for public transport transactions, just tap the locked phone (watch also works without further interaction). https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212171 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212171
kalleboo 3y ago
Suica (used for transit in Japan) has been supported on Apple Watch in Japan since the Apple Watch Series 2 way back in 2016 On the London Underground since 2014 you can use any regular EMV NFC debit/credit card to tap in and out of turnstiles. Since Apple Pay just implements the EMV standard, it works just fine as well with any credit card you have added in there.
- kitsunesoba 3y ago
  Suica was amazing the last time I visited Japan. Just bop your watch and go. It even supported reloading cash from my US credit card with the native iOS/watchOS provided card management UI, no need to fidget around with a questionably engineered third party app.
fomine3 3y ago
Best for who wearing watch on right wrist
shawabawa3 3y ago
Using any NFC device You can buy NFC rings these days

pbreit 3y ago

Chip payments remain awful. Mag stripe worked much, much better. Much cheaper "terminals". Could use in many more places. The awfulness of chip payments makes Apple Pay possible.

jackvalentine 3y ago
Australia went basically overnight from magstripe to chip and pin without issue. There was something uniquely awful about how the U.S. did it.
- mikepurvis 3y ago
  Canada also adopted it pretty quickly, years before the US. There was an extended period in there from around 2007 to 2020 where it felt like traveling back in time when I went to the US and it was magstripe and signatures again.
  - Freedom2 3y ago
    Don't forget about using cheques and having to use third-party applications for money transfer between people (Venmo, CashApp). Americans always seem to come up with an excuse for why they are slower, like a comment higher in this thread, despite the rest of the world moving on with more convenient and accessible technologies. Is it an overly defensive culture?
    - jackvalentine 3y ago
      Maybe it’s cognitive dissonance caused by nearly 80 years of ‘America is #1’ propaganda.
    - otterley 3y ago
      Massive installed base of older technology plus no financial incentives to update.
    - tallanvor 3y ago
      Do you really just use your bank's app to transfer money to anyone, though? Sure, here in Norway if I know their account number I can do that, but if I want to transfer money to a friend, I'm probably going to use Vipps because I only need to know their phone number. I consider Vipps to be a 3rd party app even though it's jointly owned by the major banks here. Every country is unique, but the financial system in the US is, as far as I can tell, quite unique, in large part due to how large the country is both in physical size and population, combined with a governing system that decentralizes a lot of power (which means some changes are much harder to mandate vs what China can decide to do, for example). You have to understand some of these foundational differences, after which it makes much more sense why some things move much more slowly in the US.

bobthepanda 3y ago

There was a first wave of contactless in the US, which then died very quickly because major retailers sued Visa/MC about preferential terms for contactless cards, and won. The new wave seems mostly driven by Stripe and Square being adopted by small businesses everywhere and supporting it out of the box, forcing the major retailers to finally catch up.

kmlx 3y ago

> with similar flawless execution > Just off the top of my head, London Transport of London used (and still does) Oyster Cards (contactless smart cards). when they switched the system to also support contactless credit cards all they had to do was flip a switch, the support was already baked in. contactless credit card support on TfL started in 2012 and the full rollout was in 2014.