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So with all of this talk for years about colony collapse and food shortages yet moths were doing the bulk of the pollinating the whole time? Or am I missing so

So with all of this talk for years about colony collapse and food shortages yet moths were doing the bulk of the pollinating the whole time? Or am I missing something. Not that colony collapse doesn’t worry me, it does. But if I was being baselessly told to fear agriculture production issues, I am super mad.

tptacek 3y ago
(This is a hobbyhorse of mine...) At least in North America, the "colony collapse" stuff was a livestock phenomenon more than it was a wildlife/ecology issue. Honey bees aren't native to the US; if you see a honey bee in your back yard, there's a pretty good chance that somebody owns it.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  So what species are the native pollinators here in North America?
  - tptacek 3y ago
    There's lots of them, including a huge variety of bees, but many (most?) of those bees are solitary, and aren't battery-farmed the way honey bees are.
    - sidewndr46 3y ago
      I don't know what they are called, but the big bees that like to burrow into pine and other wood I have tried to make a home for. They aren't aggressive at all so I don't mind them buzzing about. Every time I get a decent population we get some cold weather and I don't see them again for a long time.
      - filoeleven 3y ago
        Carpenter bees. They are pretty neat for sure. If anyone has issues with them boring into buildings, there’s an easy solution: stuff a paper bag with some plastic bags and hang it up nearby. The bees will think it’s a wasp’s nest and vacate the area within a few days. I know someone who does this every year and it works like a charm. Which, I suppose in a way, it is.
- mythrwy 3y ago
  I have wild honey bees in my yard (New Mexico) and have seen them in other places. I believe they are Africanized but just looking I can't tell the difference. At any rate, in warm areas of the US there are many feral old world bees.
  - cryptonector 3y ago
    They're africanized if they are very aggressive. Recently I saw a talk where the speaker said that if you find any africanized beehives in the wild, you should kill the hive because you don't want the africanized bees to spread. (Or if you have an africanized beehive, re-queen it.) I don't have any, and I'd be loathe to kill bees because I'm quite fond of them, but it's probably good advice.
    - aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 3y ago
      You should hire a professional exterminator, to be more precise.
      - cryptonector 3y ago
        I've all the protective equipment and I know what to do if the bee attacks get overwhelming: run to a shed and leave the door ajar -- angry bees don't like to follow their targets into dark places! But also if you're going to try to kill an africanized wild beehive you should use soapy water, with a sprayer, and if the bees attack then you'll spray your attackers with soapy water than that's that.
- seri4l 3y ago
  >if you see a honey bee in your back yard, there's a pretty good chance that somebody owns it. This is true even in Europe. If memory serves the percentage of "wild" honeybees (feral may be a more fitting adjective) is in the order of 1%.
nonethewiser 3y ago
> Not that colony collapse doesn’t worry me, it does. But if I was being baselessly told to fear agriculture production issues, I am super mad. Maybe before getting emotionally attached to a position (again) you should understand what’s going on.
- pbhjpbhj 3y ago
  Just be an expert in everything. See easy. And experts never get mislead either, just repeat all research yourself, double plus good. /S
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    I’m suggesting not to get too emotionally invested in something you don’t understand. It does not fill that you need to be an expert in everything.
JamisonM 3y ago
> Or am I missing something. One of the things you may be missing is that the article is about "efficiency" as opposed to total impact. "researchers found that 83% of insect visits to bramble flowers were made during the day. While the moths made fewer visits during the shorter summer nights, notching up only 15% of the visits, they were able to pollinate the flowers more quickly." Moths are doing great work, but they don't have much time to do the work in and they are not doing the bulk of the work. Also it seems that the night pollinators actually may largely work different flowers than the day pollinators so one can't necessarily pick up the load left by the absence of the other.
yellowapple 3y ago
Per the article, the bulk of the pollinating happens during the day. Moths being individually more efficient at pollinating is only one of several variables at play here; others include the pollinator populations, the length of daytime v. nighttime, and whether or not flowers bloom during daytime v. nighttime and for how long.
cryptonector 3y ago
Where I'm at colony collapse is not really a big deal. Beekeepers manage to keep the number of hives up, we're trying to get agribusiness to reduce the usage of pesticides, we have ways to deal with the varroa mites, etc.
cryptonector 3y ago
Beekeeping is a business. Much beekeeping business lies in renting hives to farmers (meaning: driving them to far away farms where the bees are then allowed to pollinate for a few days, then on to the next far away farm). Hive renting is pretty stressful to beehives, and farmers tend to use a lot of pesticides. And guess what: pesticides are pretty indiscriminate, so they hurt bees too. So yeah, this particular business has colony collapse issues. Beekeepers who produce honey, queens, and hives mostly only have to deal with varroa mites and such predators.

tptacek 3y ago

(This is a hobbyhorse of mine...) At least in North America, the "colony collapse" stuff was a livestock phenomenon more than it was a wildlife/ecology issue. Honey bees aren't native to the US; if you see a honey bee in your back yard, there's a pretty good chance that somebody owns it.

sidewndr46 3y ago
So what species are the native pollinators here in North America?
- tptacek 3y ago
  There's lots of them, including a huge variety of bees, but many (most?) of those bees are solitary, and aren't battery-farmed the way honey bees are.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    I don't know what they are called, but the big bees that like to burrow into pine and other wood I have tried to make a home for. They aren't aggressive at all so I don't mind them buzzing about. Every time I get a decent population we get some cold weather and I don't see them again for a long time.
    - filoeleven 3y ago
      Carpenter bees. They are pretty neat for sure. If anyone has issues with them boring into buildings, there’s an easy solution: stuff a paper bag with some plastic bags and hang it up nearby. The bees will think it’s a wasp’s nest and vacate the area within a few days. I know someone who does this every year and it works like a charm. Which, I suppose in a way, it is.
mythrwy 3y ago
I have wild honey bees in my yard (New Mexico) and have seen them in other places. I believe they are Africanized but just looking I can't tell the difference. At any rate, in warm areas of the US there are many feral old world bees.
- cryptonector 3y ago
  They're africanized if they are very aggressive. Recently I saw a talk where the speaker said that if you find any africanized beehives in the wild, you should kill the hive because you don't want the africanized bees to spread. (Or if you have an africanized beehive, re-queen it.) I don't have any, and I'd be loathe to kill bees because I'm quite fond of them, but it's probably good advice.
  - aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 3y ago
    You should hire a professional exterminator, to be more precise.
    - cryptonector 3y ago
      I've all the protective equipment and I know what to do if the bee attacks get overwhelming: run to a shed and leave the door ajar -- angry bees don't like to follow their targets into dark places! But also if you're going to try to kill an africanized wild beehive you should use soapy water, with a sprayer, and if the bees attack then you'll spray your attackers with soapy water than that's that.
seri4l 3y ago
>if you see a honey bee in your back yard, there's a pretty good chance that somebody owns it. This is true even in Europe. If memory serves the percentage of "wild" honeybees (feral may be a more fitting adjective) is in the order of 1%.

nonethewiser 3y ago

> Not that colony collapse doesn’t worry me, it does. But if I was being baselessly told to fear agriculture production issues, I am super mad. Maybe before getting emotionally attached to a position (again) you should understand what’s going on.

pbhjpbhj 3y ago
Just be an expert in everything. See easy. And experts never get mislead either, just repeat all research yourself, double plus good. /S
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  I’m suggesting not to get too emotionally invested in something you don’t understand. It does not fill that you need to be an expert in everything.

JamisonM 3y ago

> Or am I missing something. One of the things you may be missing is that the article is about "efficiency" as opposed to total impact. "researchers found that 83% of insect visits to bramble flowers were made during the day. While the moths made fewer visits during the shorter summer nights, notching up only 15% of the visits, they were able to pollinate the flowers more quickly." Moths are doing great work, but they don't have much time to do the work in and they are not doing the bulk of the work. Also it seems that the night pollinators actually may largely work different flowers than the day pollinators so one can't necessarily pick up the load left by the absence of the other.

yellowapple 3y ago

Per the article, the bulk of the pollinating happens during the day. Moths being individually more efficient at pollinating is only one of several variables at play here; others include the pollinator populations, the length of daytime v. nighttime, and whether or not flowers bloom during daytime v. nighttime and for how long.

cryptonector 3y ago

Where I'm at colony collapse is not really a big deal. Beekeepers manage to keep the number of hives up, we're trying to get agribusiness to reduce the usage of pesticides, we have ways to deal with the varroa mites, etc.

cryptonector 3y ago

Beekeeping is a business. Much beekeeping business lies in renting hives to farmers (meaning: driving them to far away farms where the bees are then allowed to pollinate for a few days, then on to the next far away farm). Hive renting is pretty stressful to beehives, and farmers tend to use a lot of pesticides. And guess what: pesticides are pretty indiscriminate, so they hurt bees too. So yeah, this particular business has colony collapse issues. Beekeepers who produce honey, queens, and hives mostly only have to deal with varroa mites and such predators.